Define Mihawk's level, prove that Zoro is close to him.Quote:
If Zoro just needs another punk to bring down one of the top dogs in the world, Mihawk should've lost his title long time ago.
The fact that : Mihawk is end game character, and that he's Zoro's main objective, and that we've just begun the second half of OP, it wouldn't make sense that he's close to Mihawk no matter how much you put it.
Once in a time, where the Supernovas were still noobs that could barely take out one Pacifista if not even one, Hancock back at the war was taking them out with just one kick... While her sister got pwned by gear second Luffy, and in his gear second, he couldn't even take a Pacifista solo. So yeah, saying that Hancock is roughly as strong as her sisters is... ridiculous.Quote:
Poor Kidd couldn't even rip apart a normal Pacifista let alone Kuma...Quote:
Fodder ? Oh wow. If I go by your logic, WB should be fodder since he got hit by shitty Squardo too right ?Quote:
His abilities are tricky, while he's a lazy fatso, his Kage kage no Mi is quite dangerous, and could be a one hit KO, especially since he does teammates here.Quote:
I do agree with you, I do see Luffy taking him out... But this is a team match, not 1vs1...Quote:
I do give this fight to the Shichibukai.
Well my guess with Zoro's strength is totally an opinion, but certainly not one that has been disproven. Kidd didn't know the PX was made of metal at the time, so who knows if he wouldn't just rip them apart? And if Kuma really has no personality left then he is just a PX with an amazing DF now. Crocodile....well I know you love the guy so I won't argue too much against him. If I were to give him any credit though it would be much more based on how clever he is and I would not compare him to WB and Squardo to Luffy. Finally for the Hancock thing I can't go back in check since because of mangareader, but if she kicked a Pacifica to death I owe you an apology.
Oh and as for Jinbe, I think Luffy at best could tie with him...when not surrounded by water.
I don't think the question makes all that much sense. The supernova are a bunch of unaffiliated individuals to begin with so what exactly is the relevance of this question? We might as well get a bunch of random dudes and compare them to other people. Also, who exactly are we considering as shichibukai here? Is it the original group, the one with BB or the new one of whom we don't know half its members?
Anyways, if it is the original shichibukai I could see the supernova winning. I don't think any of them would individually defeat the likes of kuma, mihawk or hancock however there is the fact that the supernova would be more numerous. After the 2 year timeskip it does seem like most of the supernova would also have gone through severe power increases meaning they would be far from the worthless rookies they were back in the day, they would be people of actual strength. Moria was too weak to be a shichibukai to begin with so he would be a bit of a non issue here (IMO he would still defeat the pre time skip supernova in one on one fights where he fights coherently though). Crocodile is dangerous however if the likes of smoker can be dealt with even by law I don't see him lasting much on his own at least. Numbers alone would suggest the supernova would win IMO even if their individual strength would not match the 3 guys I mentioned earlier.
Well I think it's foolish to say that Mihawk being the best swordsman to the end of the series is set in stone (not including Zoro), or that you couldn't have an interesting and dynamic plot if Zoro defeated Mihawk at this point. An end game character, sure, but an end game goal? I wouldn't be so certain. It may be speculation but I think there's probably a swordsman or two to fight after Zoro defeats Mihawk, assuming of course that he does beat Mihawk before someone else does. My guess may not be likely but it isn't impossible.
Also Kuma may have been upgraded but we still don't know for certain that he was upgraded any beyond what the "new" Pacificas were. If they could make something that was completely loyal more powerful, I'm sure they would mass produce it. Plus he would still be made of metal. If Kidd knows this he will be able to take advantage unless Kuma knows haki. As I recall haki was something of a charasima mixed with fighting spirit? Anyway I assume being a full fledged cyborg may prevent that but I'm guessing but Kuma hasn't shown haki yet.
Mihawk is an end game character, that has been overhyped since his very first appearance, and his fight vs Zoro is already being building up by Oda... He's the final obstacle for Zoro to reach his goal, and no character has the same charisma he have nor the same hype he have... It would be horrible to see someone out of nowhere being stronger than Mihawk when it comes to swordmanship (Shiryuu for instance).
Crocodile isn't Smoker who isn't Akainu who isn't Aokiji... I mean you get my point. I do agree with the Moria part, that guy is a piece of trash... but his DF ability is insanely dangerous, and I can see him being dangerous if he fights with a team, but not solo.
You can state your opinion about Croco, but I just reacted to the fodder part... Fodder are people like Morgan... He's a mid tier fighter before the timeskip, I bet he got stronger too.
The problem with this battle is determining the combatants and their abilities. Does Team Shichibukai include every individual shown to hold the title during the manga, or simply those that are confirmed to currently occupy the positions, or the original Shichibukai? Is Law on Team Shichibukai or Team Supernova? Do you judge the Supernovae on what we've seen, only Luffy, Zoro, and Law have been seen post-time skip, or are we simply allowing for completely hypothetical power-ups, considering that actual measurs of power are impossible, for the unseen Supernovae after the timeskip? Is it logical to give the other Supernovae similar upgrades in power to Luffy and Zoro when they had to study under two of the world's most powerful fighters to attain those upgrades? But, anyways.
The Shichibukai are, on average, stronger than the Supernovae. Contrary to some arguments, not a single member of the Shichibukai has ever been fodder.
@Zehahah I agree with you,but to be honest...rufy couldn't defeat a px by himself either ...yet,no way rufy isn't stronger than the other supernovas,that's what shakky stated too,after all.
Last edited by mattiaildivino; April 11, 2012 at 10:15 AM.
I don't think luffy would have been overwhelmingly superior to the other supernovas either if at all. At least kid, law, hawkins and drake seemed to be on the level to say the least and they indeed had some strong fruits to boot. Granted capone and bonney don't seem to be a big deal but still. Uroge could go either way, he was capable of exchanging some hits with a pacifista after all which is not a small feat at all.
Shichibukai level? The idea that luffy was such a thing back then is laughable lol. Crocodile gave him the fodder treatment 2 out of 3 times when they fought, not an overwhelming feat lol and quite frankly the whole thing seemed more plot induced and plain nonsensical than anything else(at least it suddenly seemed like he lost muh of his smarts and techniques lol). Moria was pretty much stated to be too weak to be a shichibukai to begin and even then it did not seem like luffy was overwhelmingly stronger if at all. heck, moria never really did anything himself and during the short fight he actually had with luffy moria had a reasonably large advantage and luffy only landed a somewhat lucky punch since moria was pretty much stationary at the time. BB would have destroyed luffy without significant issues. Luffy would have gotten the fodder treatment from a PX, against kuma he would not land a hit. Boa is someone whose strength was acknowledged by sengoku, I doubt luffy would have had a chance in hell. We saw a short bout between mihawk and luffy and luffy would not have been able to land a hit without mutilation, he was fodder. We have seen little of flamingo but I would argue that he would have had an easy victory against luffy if he could mutilate oars that easily and control one of the more apparently relevant VAs. Luffy was merely a rookie pirate during part 1.
And what could luffy do against a pacifista for that matter? It took his entire crew to barely take out one, I doubt he would have fared significantly better than urougue on his own.
yeah,what you did is right,more or less. about crocodile: rufy defeated him (while being still weaker than him) the 3rd time,but he couldn't still use gears. do you remember how easily he stopped crocodile who was about to hit WB(although the old man would have crushed him,he just knew someone else was about to intervene)? rufy's sweat could easily defeat crocodile,when he was worthy of 300 M.
Moria was weak,but his power is ambiguous,he is the only shichibukai who isn't strong on his own,but has got a power which may be stronger than the others if he steals a lot of others' shadows. yet,1 VS 1 and not tired,rufy would have kicked his ass nonetheless.
hancock's power was amazing because she could turn the others into stone,but rufy is immune to that,as was he against ener ("the supreme rogia").and haki doesn't make miracles,the 2 sisters lost despite being together and with haki. of course hancock's haki is stronger than theirs,but her hakushouku isn't an issue to rufy,cause his will is too strong to lose against it.
yet,shakky herself stated that the one really worthy of being over 300 M was rufy.
Luffy's sweat now ?
Even if Luffy with gear faced Crocodile again, it won't be a 100% victory at all. Remember, you don't need Soru to actually react to its speed... And Crocodile being a Shichibukai and an experienced pirate isn't for show...
In a sheer 1vs1 fight without Moria running and doing tricks, Luffy would've won, I agree, but then again, this is a team fight, which individuals vs individuals, and in this situation, and seeing how Moria is quite cunning, I could see him causing a lot of trouble.
Wait wat ? How did you know that Hancock's Haki is weaker to that of Luffy ? You making your own facts or what ? Besides, consider Haki as an accessory, it is incorporated into a person's fighting style, and also, we've seen Hancock turning Pacifistas into stone while she kicked them, and also turning objects into stone by using Slave Arrows... You don't need to fall in love to turn to stone... Unless canonballs do have feelings
Agreed, sweat wouldn't be enough to win here. Granted it would allow contact with crocodile as it already did however plot nonsense aside crocodile is still a fearsome guy to say the least. Luffy might have been miraculously unaffected by the poison back then and heck, he even punched through an attack which was supposed to dehydrate him (worst piece of writting oda ever did IMO) however if the luck factor and nonsense is removed there is a strong possibility of him losing out of sheer dehydration and tornadoes.
Now, I don't really think luffy would have won in a straight fight with regular moria back in the day. Moria's shadow was more than a match for regular luffy. Granted luffy did not use gears however moria did not even bother to move for 99% of the battle. Heck, he didn't even try any big and flashy attacks as he did against oars (who he could apparently one shot). Heck, luffy only actually won against moria after hitting him with the full might of his nightmare form and after moria ate all those shadows which ended up ridding the guy of his sanity and hurting him.
And yeah, we do not know how strong hancock's conqueror's haki is although its not like such a thing has actual battle applications. I would argue that she has full mastery over the other two types of haki and her overall strength is grossly underestimated at large. I wouldn't even be surprised if she was still stronger than luffy, there is a reason oda is waiting to show us her true capabilities.
about crocodile,I still think luffy would own him,not 100% sure,though
about hancock,I didn't say her haki is weaker than rufy's,actually hers should be stronger. but rufy doesn't fear anyone,that's why he didn't fall down not even in front of rayleigh's hakushouku. (I think crocodile wouldn't fall either,he is too arrogant to fear someone,although he may be owned. I hope you get what I mean) that's to say that king haki is useful just against fodders,we haven't seen strong people defeated by it yet.