Pein would never stomp or win easy. He might not even win at all -_-. This is Both Naruto and Jiraiya working together. They would be effective in working together as a team, afterall their relationship with each other is a student and master relationship. Their relationship is synonymous to a parent and his children.
Naruto had already improved Sage Mode since his fight with Pein to the point that he can enter It much quicker than before (remember when Iruka and co was trying to stop Naruto from entering the war?).
Naruto is already is Sage Mode thus the feat he displayed against Kurama is present here.
The feet he displayed against Madara is also present here ( Did u see the number of clones that distroyed Madara's forest with those Giant Rasengans?)
The clones are no cake walk, after all one dealt with Forth Raikage by using the super enhanced sensor to dodge a super speedy attack who Naruto himself compared the speed with the Forth Raikage.
The incredible shinra tensei (force push) had been dealt with already by Naruto usage of clones by a non-Sage Naruto.
The other five paths(excluding Dava) who provided difficulties for Jonin level ninjas (Konoha is filled with them) were decisively taken care of by Sage Naruto in the past.
To top it off, this is Naruto who doesn't have control over Kunama thus his Chakra was messed up which prevented Ma & Pa from fusing with him (allowing him infinite access to Sage energy) BUT now Naruto can do all that.
LOL by listing Naruto's feets, I'm almost forgot about Jiraiya (JMan?).
I believe we saw what happend when he faced Pein in Battle (plus I'm tired lol.. had a frustratingly long day ^_^) and I want everyone to think about the praise he got form Pein himself. He said JMan might have won the battle had he known his secret.
There's no way this fight is a stomp
If Jiraiya and Naruto knows pains ability, I see them winning with little trouble. All pains save for God realm are all one trick wonders.
Jiraiya and Naruto win. SM Naruto did well against Pain, and Jiraiya never had a lower hand in their fight until Asura entered.
Plus, both should have at least some knowledge on Pain to be able to fight better.
Then SM Naruto was able to do "well" vs Pein as he had that information, Pein was not going for the kill, Deva was not working, he had 2 elter frogs there, 3 huge summons, Pein already wasted chakra fighting off and entire village. Have i missed anything?
Pein going super ST would kill the both of them.
Naruto has almost full info on Pain because they fought before, while Jiraiya has some info since they fought before. Don't see how it's unfair.
I know why Naruto beat Pain, don't worry. Super ST wouldn't kill either of them though, no ST has. It's the effect of ST that did the work, like Chaoza and his team crashing into rubbles and debris. It hurts them based on what they hit, but all ST does is push stuff back.
Naruto still has a great defense and offense in SM, and Jiraiya's good at taijutsu. Jiraiya's arsenal of jutsu and speed in SM would help give him the advantage. Jiraiya doesn't need precise chakra control if he uses Swamp of the Underworld, just enough chakra to get them stuck and Naruto can use FRS. Not sure if Deva can do anything about Swamp of the Underworld, but I assume Hungry Ghost can. Naruto and Jiraiya's bunshins can distract both, or Naruto can use his frog fu to take out Hungry Ghost.
So you belive that JMan and Naruto can take something that made an entire vilage into a crater? Don't think so bub. Whatever they do it will get to that point and Deva can release that instantly and they can't do shit to it.
Also its irrelevant how they would get that damage, by ST itself or by hitting the ground but they will. Hell even the ST that Deva used to take out the frogs and it would be enough to do good damage to this 2.
Another thing you entire body is not effected at the same time, its a force that propagest itself trough space, it will effect you body piece by piece. So at first is going to hit there chest, then there lungs and part of his heart and so on. Parts are going to be slaming into another parts of there body as they are accelerated. Half of JMan/Naruto hearth is going to be slaming the other half that is not accelerated at that point. The shock alone and its good enough. Now of course this depends on what ST he is using as he can create them on diferent levels.
If Deva could release ST instantly, then Naruto and Kyuubi Naruto wouldn't have been able to react and counter to it. Still haven't seen where ST itself has killed anyone, just the effect of ST like someone being pushed into a hard substance or building falling on them. Add SM's defense to Naruto and speed to Naruto and Jiraiya, and it'll be hard to do ST on them.
The frogs were damaged from impact of hitting whatever they did. We've seen many be pushed away and still be able to get up, like Chouji.
Huh? No, ST pushes the body as whole, not one by one. if the chest gets hit, everything in the chest gets hit. The reason why the victims were shocked was because it came out of nowhere. I think we even saw Naruto eat at least one ST and get back up like it was nothing. We also saw Hinata damaged because she was pushed into the ground hard. Once Naruto knew ST was coming, he was able to prepare himself.
Some people are talking as if Nagato can instantly own J-man and Naruto with a huge ST or Chibaku Tensei, which I don't get. Both techniques have rather serious drawbacks and take a while to prepare. In order to do the huge ST, Nagato has to 'disable' all the other bodies, leaving Deva path unprotected. We don't even know if Nagato would have to do the same in order to perform CT since all the other paths were already dead, but it seemed to require even more power than the huge ST, and he even had to move Deva path closer to his real body to perform it. It's not like he's just gonna whip these huge techniques out of nowhere.
Last edited by Pervy Sage; May 02, 2012 at 11:08 AM.
What you go on about there has absolutly no logic. So if i have a weapon that can blow up the Moon in the sky you whant me to show you it killing a human before you accept that as possible?
Ok, let's use this logic. People are not going to die Amaterasu as it never killed anybody. People are not going to die to CT as it never killed anybody. People are not going to die to an arrow from Sasuke's Susano as it never killed anybody. People are not going to die to Naruto's flashbijudama as it never killed anybody. Do i need to go on? What you keep posting its absurd.
Tsunade had to use her jutsu protect the people in Konoha for a reason. Naruto and JMan getting hit by this:
And its over.
The very fact that you keep insisting this thing never killed anybody so its lame its BS.
1 ST was able to incapacitate Hinata.
1 ST was able to take out Chouji's father.
1 ST was able to take out 3 huge frogs the size of buildings.
Now add to this how this 1 can blow up a village not some 10m...
Also i am sure some people died even with that summon usage:
I also DON'T GIVE A DAMN how the damage is done, by the ST itself or by JMan and Naruto hitting the ground and the debris hitting them and what not. What does it matter how?
There is no way in hell these 2 can dodge or run away or whatever you whant from something that effects an entire village whent it goes off. Nobody in this manga was able to avoid a ST, nobody.
Also the Kyuubi got send flying just that it was able to grab the ground:
The force itself close to instantly hits you. I have no idea how you can even argue with that. Look here how close Naruto was:
I really see your point how Naruto and JMan are going to dodge\survive an INVIZIBLE force that goes off in all directions and has the area of effect to blast an entire village.
Huh? NO. the force does not instantly effect all matter in a given area. Its a force that emanets from Deva and effects matter as it travels. This means that matter is going to be effected peace by peace as the force propagates and expands. Its like shooting a bullet. Will the bulet instantly effect your entire body or will it drill into you piece by piece from the point of entry. Its the same here. Its actualy elementary if you stop and think.Quote:
Naruto was able to eat small size ST's... City buster is completly another thing... Even the one that sent the frogs flying was on a completly diferent level then the rest.
I would also LOVE to see Naruto preparing for the ST that blew off the village...
Last edited by xXan; May 02, 2012 at 12:05 PM.
Basically, what you're saying is Jiraiya and Naruto, in SM, would die from a strong push or a tackle. I can believe Amaterasu killing people because it burns. Sasuke's Susano'o's arrows killing makes sense because we know it can pierce through someone and kill them. Hell, maybe a city buster ST killing might make sense because of the great force it uses, but ST isn't a killing move.
Explain how it'd kill.
Katsuyu? Looks like she was protecting people or cushioning them from the impact and from buildings falling on them since we see them fall over or be blown into rubbles. It has nothing to do with seeing ST kill people and more to do with whether it can.Quote:
THE PROBLEM IS, IT DOESn'T LOOK LIKE A KILLING JUTSU. Chibaku Tensei never killed anyone as far as we saw, but I can believe it'll kill people because of how the jutsu is.Quote:
Hinata was pushed into the ground hard. You see the ground rise up from either the impact or from ST.
Chouji's father probably hit somethin when he was pushed.
From the looks of it, they [url=http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/434/10]hit the ground and were rolling until they hit something or fell into the water. THat kind of impact would take them out.
Doesn't look like they did. The ones that were dead probably died because Katsuyu came too late to save 'em.Quote:
If I push you, what'll hurt more? Me pushing you or you falling on jagged rocks? Simple ST isn't gonna hurt Jiraiya or Naruto (unless much stronger version is used, then it's debatable), but what they land on will hurt. If Deva ST's Naruto into a wall with spikes and kills him, was that because of the ST itself or because of the wall with spikes?
Jump up to avoid it? magic of ST came from not knowing when it'd be used. Considering how quick ST can be used, it'd be hard to avoid it. But from the looks of it, ST can be dodged, based on Deva bein able to push the three boss toads away but not Naruto, Maa, or Paa. Unless those three were out of line of fire, or ST doesn't hit everything but what Deva wants it to.Quote:
If Deva even tries a city buster ST, he'll leave himself wide open. Though, if the other bodies are intact, speed shouldn't matter as much as they were able to keep up with Jiraiya and to some degree Naruto.
Naruto was close enough to be hit almost instantly. When Deva used the huge version, it was like a ripple effect when Konoha was destroyed.Quote:
Invisible it may be, undodgeable it is not. But I think that depends on how Deva uses Shinra Tensei.
Huh? We talking about the normal ST or the city buster? A bullet will enter one point in your body, ST isn't a bullet. When Deva uses it on a stationary person, they get pushed in a way that looks like they're being pushed from their stomach. Same with Bansho Tenin, they look like they're being pushed from their back. Or pulled. See Kakashi being Bansho Tenin'd. ST focuses on one area, like when Naruto and his clone's face looked clobbered from ST.Quote:
Tajuu kage bunshin. Probably not possible, but Sage Mode Naruto might be able to keep him and Jiraiya from being blown away. I said might, not will.
ST isn't like getting pushed by a man. Its like getting pushed by a truck moving 100mph. It will cause a lot damage even before colliding with the ground or other objects. With that said, I don't know if it is enough to kill SM Naruto and Jiraiya depending on the distance and if they are free to fall back freely. A city buster ST must kill or its suicide.
It really hardly matters though. Deva can just knock them back with a regular ST and throw up a CT. Even if the pressure don't kill Jiraiya and Naruto, which I think will, the lack of oxygen will suffocate them.
It depends on the strength used, but ST doesn't look like it does as much damage when used normally. Almost everyone hit with it was able to get back up, usually as if nothing happened.
CT won't work if Naruto or Jiraiya reacts in time since it takes Nagato a while to do CT. Though, I'm sure a powerful ST should be enough, but I'm not sure if it can be immediately followed with a CT.
I can agree with you that a normal ST is not going to do shit to SM Naruto or JMan BUT The one that blew off a city would defenetly take them out. A MISSLE from Robot was enough to rip JMan's arm off. They are not invulnerable, far from it.
The same way it was able to blow up and entire village?Quote:
This little dude was able to wrap around its target's to protect them like a shield. That is how they survived.Quote:
The thing is if something of that magnitude can leave them in THAT STATE something 1000X more powerfull what do you think is going to do? its like getting shot with a bullet and then hit by an ICBM.Quote:
Try getting pushed by something that will trow you a village in distance. Its lime me pusshing you so hard to trow you from 1 side of NY to the other, you would defenetly die lol, your joints alone would be dislocated and what not when i push in your torso you arms/legs/nech would be pulled on. The example is not that good to say the least as i can't push your entire mass at the same time. Also how many times do i have to tell you i was refering to Super ST? That was from my first posts you made a reply to.Quote:
Jump up? The ST originates from the user and spreads in all directions (The user can direct it in a specific place but that is another thing). You have NO jump up.Quote:
Also and yes. ST hits ONLY what it wants to. We have multiple ocasions when we had other stuff around him and only whatevr he felt like got hit.
Only the FRS got hit and all of them where right next to him.
Only Naruto got hit, the realm on the ground was fine.
After the Super ST he would be left open BUT its not going to be of any relevance. Even asuming JMan/Naruto are not dead after eating that they are going to be in a horible shape. Deva is going to kill them by using his fists.
Let's go with the fact that nobody dodged one. Only Minato could do that by teleporting out of the way out of luck (as he can't see it). The move is AOE. Its like dodging a nuclear wepaon blowing up in your face.Quote:
Since the first reply you made to me it was about the City Buster one. I sugest you go back and read what you made that reply to lol.Quote:
As for how ST works its valid. Your entire mass is not effected instantly. The force emantest from the user and effects stuff as it goes. Now if its actualy a hitting force, physical (you don't what to belive that) the damage would be like getting hit by a speading buss. If the force is something that magnetize you body as its spreads his body is going to get magnetized as the edge of the wave get's to him peace by peace. His bones,flesh and what not in his body are going to get magnetized as the wave get's to them, the ones that the wave as yet to arive to are not going to get magnitized and thus result in what i told you. Imagine having a 10m long bulding. When Deva shoots ST is the hole building going to blow up at once or get ripped appart as the wave spreads from 1 side to the other? Same thing here. As the wave expands so Kakashi's body is going to be effected, and thus some parts of the organs are going to hit other parts and so on with his muscles, bones and what not.
I am sure Kishi was not thinking that deep when he made this move lol but that is the logical way at least :P
Last edited by xXan; May 03, 2012 at 01:22 AM.
Jiraiya summon MA+PA frog easily counter CT jutsu by singing. Or they can just use the instant Frog call that instantly paralyze the user and disrupt. I mean nagato need to focus to use CT and if his disrupted by Frog call CT will just disappear.
this is an enemy that bothNaruto and Jiraiya fought. Pain admited that if Jiraiya had intel he would have been defeated. ANd i dont care if it was plot no jutsu or whatever Naruto already defeated the six paths, if naruto and jiraiya with ma n pa are present the six paths will loose. SM Naruto's attacks are powerful enough to take them out in one blow, if the hungry ghost path wants to absorb chakra naruto can use the method he used before. And if things get hairy naruto has the kyuubi along with ma n pa, a bunch of frogs and jiraiya