I will go we this.
Yukimura has been show to completely dominate and shrug off any non Pinnacle of perfection. And In fact he started to fight back vs pinnacle of perfection.
To me this is a clear yukimura win. There is people claiming that Sanada could beat yukimura, yet Sanada was destroyed by yukimura.
Yes now sanada has great training. You still have to accept yukimura has been shown to be too good, and really It doesn't seem logic that Atobe and sanada improved that much to beat Yukimura, much less considering that it seems yukimura improved too.
Yukimura is still probably the best MS below Tezuka. I would say echizen too, but Echizen is broken by an ability that for some reason doesn't use? The power of echizen is mostly plot power, we don't even know if echizen can beat yuki without Pinnacle of perfection.
We also assume 1st stringers are stronger than yuki with no evidence. Yuki is undefeated so far in the camp, and yes 1st stringers bested non perfection echizen, but so did yukimura.
Of course the only true answer is in Konomi head, and there are 2 realities in regard to NPOT one is what the logic dictates according to the information given, and other what Konomi really thinks (it's called word of God for a reason).
Is true that the information given thus far is inconclusive, but overall there is nothing that would really tell us that Atobe could beat yuki. Atobe kingdom hasn't been shown to be so amazing after all, it didn't really win Atobe any game yet.
Yukimura's well improved YIPS technique may be terrifying but if we think about it, usually it works with people with probably a low mental capacity. But Atobe has a high insight prowess and posses a tough mental upholding that can even hold long drawn matches.. But to think about it, it's not a hundred percent that Atobe can be affected by YIPS but it's a hundred percent that ATOBE will be able to use his "Atobe Kingdom" against Yukimura since there's no way to stop someone from looking at you. Even Irie knew that, but couldn't stop it... Just sayin.....
Yukimura proved that he is so strong regardless of yips, in fact yips only appear to be the icing of the cake. And all mental strength we supposed Atobe have seems to be worth nothing now, since oichi completely got him. If it would have been another player instead of atobe in this match, we all were gonna think Atobe wouldn't fall under oichi dominance, yet is atobe there is, Atobe now is officialy not invencible mentally, as far as we know, not even strong.
Im saying its unlikely Atobe can defeat Yuki. Your saying Atobe > Irie?
No fanboyism when I give evidence to show Irie has two levels of seriousness. Why wont you accept Irie has showed us two levels of seriousness?
I see what your saying, but why are you ignoring the fact that Konomi showed Irie with an angry expression and what I expect to be fully serious when against Akiba, yet he was laughing and teasing Atobe the whole way through?
Can you reply to that?
---------- Post added at 10:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:18 AM ----------
Yes, it destroyed Fuwa and Tooyama who maybe had weak mental's, but Ryoma and Sanada were yipped. Are you telling they had weak mentals?
Yukimura's Yips is extremely powerful as he has yipped Ryoma and Sanada.
Oh? He can DEFINETELY use it? We dont know. As far as Im concerned, Atobe is yet to use AK for MANY games consecutively. So I dont see how we can suggest he cant get yipped. If Ryoma, Tooyama and Sanada did, Atobe most certainly can get yipped.
For Mental-wise he isnt too amazing. Irie screwed him over and Ochi also screwed him over. They arent the best in the camp.
Actually? Yeah. Irie was piss because his playstyle was diss heavily by his opponent. I thought of it more as mad than serious, to be honest. Atobe word doesn't piss him off.
And even if you were to argue that Irie would have dpne it nonetheless, before he had a chance to go into that mode, Atobe injured himself by accident, making Atobe ability drop and Irie simply doesn't have to go serious like that anymore. So that's a possible explanation. Why would someone like Irie go serious when he don't have to? He could have been like "I guess I don't have to go serious anymore". Irie isn't the type to be all serious if he dont have to. He won't show ability unless he's push enough. And Atobe was injured before he had another chance, most likely.
You evidence doesn't negate my point. I've SEEN the serious Irie. And that is already include into the equation. It doesn't change it. It's just like, here's a 10 (Serious Irie). Did you include 2 in there? (Serious). It's already include. Your point would have make sense to me if I consider Irie and Serious Irie the same. I didn't. So, another evidence, please.
Also, that equation is hardly pointless. It show that base on fact fom manga, you can't say one is better than other. And that is my point. Not that one of them at 100% is more powerful than each other.
Last edited by -Ken-; May 16, 2012 at 01:26 PM.
I'm not sure that Sanada and Ryoma have high mentality. Sanada's stubbornness in his match with both Ryoma and Tezuka shows that he lets emotion get in the way of what needs to be done. As for Ryoma, he was stubborn from episode 1. I would say both of them have a weak mental game in their own way.Quote:
As for the Irie discussion, I don't see why there is an issue. Irie was "acting" the entire time with Atobe. His anger was also an act. Konomi stapled this theory as fact when he showed us what a serious Irie looks like (Akiba). That Irie was not shown a single time against Atobe. The fact of the matter is, whether we like it or not, (non-serious) Irie let Atobe win.
I'd say that Atobe would still be playing some decent tennis after he's lost his hearing and even his sight, but once he loses his touch it's over.
Closed Eyes isnt for everyone. Sanada, Tooyama couldnt cope being blind.
Closed Eyes is used by Nanjiroh, Ryoma, Fuji and Fuwa.
---------- Post added at 02:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 PM ----------
Do you or do you not acknowledge he has different level of seriousness.
I honestly dont think he was fully serious with Atobe as Tanegashima said to him if your not careful they'll pull the rug from under you. Basically saying stop messing around.
Your point would have make sense to me if I consider Irie and Serious Irie the same. I didn't
And my point is that it DOESN"T matter if Irie was in his full 100% serious with Atobe. BECAUSE Atobe got injured. And from what we've seen, his non-100% serious self got dominated by Atobe with Atobe Kingdom who is not injured. It is only when Atobe get injured that the non-100% serious Irie started getting points.
And for the reason for why that is, look at my seemingly "useless" equation. I'm not explaining that again.
And the point you made I told to Ken. He just doesnt want to acknowledge it.
---------- Post added at 02:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:43 PM ----------
Let's face it, Ochi and Mouri are owning here and Mouri doesnt even look menacing.
So we do know uninjured Atobe going all-out.
We know Irie going all out. He absolutely destroyed someone and left them in a medical attention state.
With Atobe, Irie was not like that.
We dont need your Math for PoT bro. Your no genius so relax. Everybody is High School age or above so of course Middle School maths doesnt doesnt need to be taught or explained.
You're putting down no 9 and 10 when they had only 1 match against two of the strongest MS. There's no telling if Irie would have been own the same way or not. It doesn't matter.
Here's what happen, from what I've seen.
In your mind
-Atobe aren't that strong.
-no 9 and 10 are winning against Atobe, so they could be strong. But They still aren't strong compare to Irie.
I don't get it. It's because you're already putting down Atobe that no 9 and 10 doesn't look strong. If you view Atobe like he's strong. Then you will view no 9 and 10 as cannidates who is possibly stronger than Irie.
This isn't fact of manga. It's you setting opinion onto the manga and then draw that as a fact.
What are you talking about? Atobe was injured BEFORE he even got Atobe Kingdom. That is hardly an excuse. He was playing absolutely fine even with his injury, so it was not a handicap. That injury was no "Tezuka-elbow" by any means.Quote: