The incident during the Chuunin Exam was done with the prediction ability of the Sharingan, seeing what movement one was gonna make before they made it. He wasn't "recording" anything. And would be capable doesn't mean they did. We have three examples of Uchihas in battle, with Sasuke's the only one to bother copying anything, and even that was a while ago for only techniques. Everything else has been his own techniques, either learnt beforehand, created, or gained in the case of MS/EMS. If the copying ability was so important, surely we would see it put to more use, right?
2) regarding your gokakyu no jutsu "instant copy" allegation, let me bring out evidence to the contrary:
"you were taught the seals a while ago"
I don't think that implies sasuke copying the seals on the spot
3) prediction only comes with level 3 sharingan. sasuke was surprised by this ability when he unlocked lvl 3 fighting naruto at the valley of the end
4) how do you know it's not being used? not every ninja must spam every skill in his arsenal until the appropriate situation calls for a relevant skill. kakashi's copied over 1000 techniques, he's barely been shown using any at all. not everyone's naruto who must spam every single skill he knows regardless of relevance and help everytime he meets someone new.
if anything, the ability to copy these skills would greatly increase the sharingan user's adaptability without much training, as he has greater access to a greater variety of skills for variou situations
If the Uchiha is better than the Senju, then how did Senju ever rival them in power? There's no way they could have been equal of Uchiha was really haxxed like people pretend they are. In fact, I'm not sure most of you know what hax means.
If Uchiha was haxxed, Senju would have been wiped out a long time ago. Otherwise you'll have to admit Senju are haxxed as well.
And before using lack of Senju but Tsunade as an argument, can you prove that they haven't assimilated with other clans?
Manga shows that either Senju is just as haxxed or Uchiha isn't as haxxed as people make it out to be.
I've been trying to locate this skill you alleged naruto copied on the spot early on
what skill is this? I can't find anything to this effect
---------- Post added at 07:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 PM ----------
in fairness, they were probably stamina gods. they were also possibly gifted users of chakra (chakra geniuses), but that has yet to be shown in canon yet beyond hashirama and tobirama.
but to bring it back to the topic, it just gives them greater endurance to outlast the sharingan users, matching the world's sharpest sword against the world's sturdiest shield. it's an ass of a situation if all you have is a shield, and all you can do is to keep blocking and shield bashing while the sword user chooses when he feels like swinging at you until he finally gets tired out. the sword user dominates the entire fight even though he can't injure u
further, arguably, they still have to keep working to gain all those skills, which were nowhere near as flashy or instnatly useful as the sharingan ones, which are automatically given on sharingan unlocking. the ability to cut a mountain in half on unlocking MS? the ability to record+playback a skill just by looking at it once?
granted, the increased godly stamina probably makes it easier to work harder. but in any case, it still doesn't make the sharingan any less of an asspull. ultimately they're all asspulls
Last edited by hyper_megaman; June 20, 2012 at 02:36 PM.
2) That was still by all indications, his first time actually preforming the technique. It's not as if we have any reason that Kakahsi didn't teach Sasuke the seals to Chidori either, especially since it's usage required time to activate.
3) No, the two tomoe can predict too. The three tomoe merely made it better. That's how he was able to see Lee's movements. It's also the bases for the copying ability, so unless you're saying he didn't have that, then he had to be able to predict.
4) Because we've seen them in several battles, and it not being used. We also know all of his techniques, and so far all the new techniques that Itachi displays have been either unique to him or Sharingan-based. That again brings up the point, that if it was so useful, why is it that it's barely been shown? Why does Sasuke stick with his own techniques instead of "adapting without having to train"? Why would he train in the first place if he could just copy things? Why, when he was with Orochimaru, did Sasuke talk about training, if he could have just had Orochimaru preform a bunch of techniques and instantly copy them? He clearly has no issue with copying, yet he chooses to train instead?
Naruto copied Uzumaki Naruto barrage, it's how he finished his fight with Kiba. Kakashi states Naruto copied Sasuke, though.
It's still an assumption that the chakra is the only reason they were able to last. Even that wouldn't help them last against Uchiha, some who could predict movements, read seals, and move fast enough. Uchiha were still equal to Senju in terms of combat, regardless of how. THe only explanation that exists is either both were haxxed or neither was haxxed. Hell, you could even say Senju was haxxed since they were able to fight Uchiha without a doujutsu of their own.
No, Uchiha also has to work on gaining the skills. It's why Sasuke was training with Kakashi for a month, to work on his taijutsu, elemental nature, and chidori. We even saw Itachi train to be accurate with kunai throwing. We've seen at least two instance of Uchiha training, three if you count Madara and his brother fighting each other. I don't see how Sharingan is flashy, or any flashier than growing trees out of nowhere or shortening 43 required handseals to 1.
Sasuke used Sharingan for hte first time on Haku. He still lost. He used it on Rock Lee. Still lost. Against Rock Lee, it's been proven that Sharingan is basically useless if you can't react fast enough despite seeing. And the ability to cut a mountain in half only comes with perfect Susano'o, which only Madara has shown to be able to use. Even then, it's been said that only very few Uchiha could unlock Susano'o.
The ability to copy jutsu or record and playback is useless if the Sharingan holder isn't able to do anything. Sasuke can't master Tsuchikage's Jinton despite Sharingan because he doesn't have the required elements. Itachi can't use chidori because he doesn't have raiton. Kakashi can't use any katon because he has no affinity with such.
Sharingan isn't as much of an asspull as people like to pretend it is. EMS can be considered an asspull, but it requires chakra to use. MS is not an asspull as usage causes blindness. Sharingan isn't an asspull since as we saw, it's still up to the users. If Sharingan was an asspulll, or Uchiha was as haxxed, they'd be dominating and would have even wiped out Senju.
In fact, Kishi established Senju to be stronger by giving Uchiha Izanagi, MS jutsu, and etc but still making both clans equal in power to each other. So without SHaringan or MS, Uchiha might have been wiped out for all we know.
You're speaking as if the Uchiha clan would have attacked the village head-on. A coup is usually a surprise blitz, done so it's finished before the opposition can counterattack. And why do you presume that if they hadn't awoken the Sharingan, they wouldn't be able to give a good fight? Sasuke and Obito have shown that this is clearly not true. The Sharingan grants an advantage, but it's not their only means of fighting. The Uchiha members would have gone through the same sort of training as the rest of Konoha, meaning they would have been just as strong as the ninjas they were fighting with the Sharingan/MS users being slightly above the majority of forces.
---------- Post added at 05:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------
a coup is a suprise attack but konoha already knew the suprise they coulldve had nin well prepared at each and everyone of the villages weak points
Senjuu won the war, so Senjuu are stronger. Facts man! FACTS!!
there was no war lol they agreed on peace haha facts man! FACTS...
Gotta remind everyone, the Madara we're seeing now isn't the same as the Madara from the past. He's beefed up on Hashirama's chakra. Yes, he's a beast without it, but now that he has it that could potentially be the reason his jutsu are so large scale and deadly. Also the Senju are praised for being a clan of a thousand jutsu who were masters of all aspects of ninja combat from ninjutsu to genjutsu to taijutsu. Giant chakra reserves plus a versatile array of jutsu equals deadly ass clan.
Yeah, we didn't see any of it. But it's not fair to complain about Sasuke, Itachi, and Madara's revealed techniques in comparison because again, these are geniuses. All of these ninja are the pinnacle of skill and power within their clan. No average Uchiha can perform the same feats that they do, and it's stated often. Tobi states that eyes that can create Susanoo are particularly rare. That leads me to believe that even among the very, very few who managed to get MS, barely any could use Susanoo except the best of the best.
I thank you Kid Chameleone for this valid point: ... shes
a failure ofa senju uzumaki mix. That's why I pointed out that it's bias BS to say the Senju didn't go through the same circumstance as the Uchiha. Ungodly stamina Senju Hashiramaa married to super life force Uzumaki Mito. Minus 1 of her parent, we have Tsunade which had to resort to Byakugou/Souzo Saisei in spite her heritage and still be weaker.
Madara mocks Tsunade of being a weak Senju. Does it imply that there were more powerful Senju around? If so, why is the Shinobi Alliance struggling when it's obvious the Senju were kage level? Why is the Senju absent in the current war when they're needed to uphold the Will of Fire? They were masters, prodigies in the shinobi arts. They would undoubtedly be far better than Maito Gai and Hatake Kakashi, Akimichi Chouza and co., plus other non-Senju characters. So strong were the Senju stamina and mastery of the arts and so big were their clan that none of the Shinobi Alliance even mentions the famed "Senju". Not even a squeak.
Why did they specifically chose Senju Hashirama's and Uzumaki's cells? Why did Kabuto use cells from Uzumaki Karin to boost his chakra recovery? I could understand if he didn't take Hashirama's cells, but what of Senju Tobirama? Obviously it would be the second best choice instead of Uzumaki Karin. Also if they were so blessed with monstrous fortitude, why in hell didn't Orochimaru switch bodies with a Senju instead going for some random ass outside of Rikudou's genome? Even a lesser Senju outmatch an Uchiha, so strong it was.
It's ironic when receiving that type of reply and having it directed back at you, although I would post the same quote over and over again, but I won't. Need I point out that Yamato's a Konoha shinobi, an ANBU operative, possessed Hashirama's cells and not to mention having access to Ninjutsu scrolls left by Hashirama. Again, I'll just waste my time re-quoting things that had been posted already. I'm not sure why you even brought in a non-guided munition when the whole example/analogy was about missiles. Not to mention guns and bullets.
Last edited by moonshard; June 21, 2012 at 05:54 AM.
I'm not sure you really understand anything, you're just looking for any excuse to whine about Uchiha being haxxed when it's the contrary. If you admit Uchiha is haxxed, you have to admit the Senju are haxxed as well, considering they were able to stand up to Uchiha's "haxxness." Both were considered rivals, and Madara/Tobi even admitted that Hashirama stood on top of the shinobi world, that he was more known and respected than Madara.
Sasuke trained like Lee, yeah, but he got quickly exhausted, unlike Lee. I think the kick against Yoroi even gave Sasuke some kind of pain, whereas Lee didn't look to have any pain. If the Uchiha/Sharingan were as haxxed, then Madara wouldn't have lost, Sasuke wouldn't have lost, and Obito would have been able to save himself and Kakashi instead of dying. Hell, the Uchiha wouldn't have been wiped out by two or four people.
Orochimaru wanted an Uchiha body not because it was haxxed, but because of SHaringan's ability to copy and apparently, its ability to unlock Rin'negan. Orochimaru was on a quest to learn as many jutsu as possible, which Sharingan's ability assisted him with. Rin'negan would have enabled him to use any jutsu. Yet despite the upgrade to Rin'negan, only Madara's been able to achieve that, and only shortly before his death.
And why wouldn't anyone choose Hashirama? You do know about his power, right? He was able to use Mokuton, bring the bijuu under his control, heal almost any injury instantly (Tsunade can do the same, something that no Uchiha can do), and had a powerful chakra that brought life to his Mokuton. Why would Tobirama be better choice than Karin? Uzumaki's known more for their longevity and chakra than Senju, You do know that Senju and Uzumaki, especially Tobirama and Karin, have different powers, right?
Where did Hashirama lose against MS Madara? He not only beat EMS Madara, but he also fought the Kyuubi controlled by Madara and wrested away control. Even Susano'o didn't stop Hashirama from beating Madara.
Why complain about Sasuke fighting against experienced opponents? Why not point out Naruto doing the same and actually winning, whereas Sasuke got tricked or had to retreat? Naruto was able to beat Nagato thanks to Kyuubi. Or that because of Kyuubi's chakra, he had enough chakra to use FRS twice on Kakuzu? Or that he was able to take on Third Raikage thanks to Kyuubi's chakra? Or withstand Raikage's speed and even keep up with him thanks to Kyuubi's chakra. You know? The chakra that's not his, that he got from another source of power? that's worse than Sharingan.
Can you prove Senju are absent from the current war? Can you prove that they didn't change their clan name or mixed with other clans? For all we know, only Hyuuga and Uchiha practiced inter-clan breeding. And I don't see Uchiha being mentioned either,just Madara seeing as how he was revived and how the good guys thought Tobi was Madara.