And what are those mid range stuff? Hope its not a jutsu or Susano as that get's absorbed.. The only thing Madara can do is run up to Nagato and use his fists.Quote:
Now don't give me that Others shortcomings =/= eventual Madara's shortcomings... Its just absurd... We have here Naruto in RM and Bee getting owned. Why is Madara better with his... FISTS (or Kunai or whatever).
What you 2 just said is beyong absurd. All you need to do is SUMMON it and let it go nuts... Nagato already showed to be able to summon it... Even if he never showed that the statue can attack by itself and this would mane no sense at all....
This is not like you need to upgrade your Susano and what not. You just need to know how to SUMMON it and Nagato knows how ...
Not a draw. He goes above the forest and let's the GM stomp the place to crep using its ST like move to devastate the entire area (used vs the Hokage army in the manga)...Quote:
As for your second point:
They tried lol. Got slaped out of the sky:
Then we have Nagato:
1-Using the tons of summons he has around to lift him above.
2-Using the GM to defending him and lift him up.
3-Abosorbing the spores (he can do that to oil).
4-ST the entire area.
We don't know if Susano has the raw stg to do that. Its 1 thing to punch trough something and another to try to punch trough something when you are inside it like under snow or earth. You get compacted down there and you can't build momentum in your hand to punch your way out. Now perhaps it can or can't but it sure as hell never showed to have the 9 tails power. Madara just gave a random line how its Susano > Biju but we don't know in what, we don't know if he was not just full of himself (and he is lol). Slicing the moutains still don't mean he can bust out of ST as he could swing his arms there and he can't use his weapon.Quote:
Last edited by xXan; June 20, 2012 at 02:02 AM.
That and PIS to further hype Itachi.
As for Madara, gee I dunno, he has only, like, Mokuton and all the related jutsu, again not only we don't know if he can absorb wood since he didn't absorb sand, but also the scale of Mokuton jutsus is so large that even if Nagato absorbs a root or two the rest would smash/trap/hit him.
Again, Preta's range isn't 360°
Ignoring that Prince Sasuke is the dude that made the topic, so his opinion is somewhat relevant, but let's move on:Quote:
here Nagato just summons Gedo Mazo, which already forms the spikes.
Straight after that, he is impaled even before trying to use the jutsu that destroyed everyone, simply feeding it after summoning it.
Also Gedo Mazo was stopped by fucking Chouji, it as a summon is as useful as Gamabunta. Meaning that it isn't really useful to anything without his chakra blasts or that soul sucking thing
Ok, let's go with your scenario, how it impedes Madara?Quote:
Pollen would be produced endlessy ( you know, like flowers ) since Madara would simply restore the pollen world, while Nagato would need to continuosly destroy it with City Buster Shinra Tensei or Chibaku Tensei, while needing those spikes to power up Gedo Mazo.
We saw the effect it had a Shinra Tensei of that magnitude as well as Chibaku Tensei, so what can he do to harm Madara?
Now this is just being plain blind for the sake of your argument.Quote:
Not only Perfect Susano'o dwarfs the meteors ( which means he would bust out only by summoning it ), he also just about created an explosion many times his size that destroyed everything in the way of its sword.
They charged in with melee attacks as that was the only things that would work...Quote:
Again with the sand... Now i am sitting here wondering where are you going to accept the panels where it is clearly stated that he can absorb it and they need to stop him from doing that...Quote:
Wood can be absorbed like any other jutsus and like oil and whatever.
Now perhaps its not 360 but it matters not. He has summons, he has robots ars to turn himself into a spider, he can run ... He can fly... And all he needs is 5 seconds to blast them again... He can sit on his bird above the roots and keep blasting.
This has absolutly no relevance here. Its irrelevant who created the topic. At best he can edit a rule in to not alow Nagato to use it but that is it.Quote:
So you are telling me Nagato can summon it and also use the dragon by alowing the spikes to pierce his fles but he can't summon the GM? Makes no sense. To use it just like Tobi he just needs to SUMMON IT. Nothing else is needed. Not only that it was ATTACKING like Tobi's before the spikes... Seriously what other evidence do you need? This is getting ridicolus... It got summoned, it punched the ninja around Nagato, it yelled and later Nagato decided to use the dragon and so feed it chakra.Quote:
We have all the things we need to asume.. Well you know Nagato CAN SUMMON IT.... The only diference is that the curent version with the biju's would pop up and not the one with no biju's... Its like Fukasu summoning Naruto before SM and after SM. Are we do asume he can't summon Naruto after he has SM?
Try to be reasonable please...
Stopped? GM stopped choji punch like NOTHING and pushed him away when he was as big as a mountain... Seriously wtf?Quote:
No, GM is going to dance on them the cumbaia the moment you accept how ridicolus is what you and the other guy are tring to get accros.Quote:
Its not bigger then the CT... I am not debating if its bigger then the meteors or if it can bust out of those.Quote:
Also as i explained to you that is not a explosion. Its a swing of a sword. That can't be done if you arms are trapped in stone...
Again we don't know if it can muster enough strengh to pull his hands trough the CT.
Anyway i faill to understand why you keep going on and on with the CT when i am not using it in any of my hypothesis on how Nagato wins? Its just for argument sake or what? How effective it would be its an unknown.
While he has the speed and the skills, he has way better weapons to exploit
Which would result in a draw, since Nagato can't harm Madara, and Madara can't harm Nagato if he keeps flying, and he hasn't Amaterasu to snipe him.Quote:
What I'm trying to get across is that no weapon of Nagato can harm Madara, while Madara has plenty of weapons to deal with Nagato
I meant that if the dude says that Nagato has that Gedo Mazo, for topic's sake, then Nagato has it.Quote:
Again, in this topic
Summoning =/= him doing things, Nagato can summon and desummon Gedo Mazo all he wants, to make him move, do things or whatever he needs to power it with his chakra, meaning he is impaled by spikes, that is what I meantQuote:
Yet he didn't do a thing to him, since Chouji was fine and dandy, and Mokuton's range is way larger anyway, so really, giant beasts aren't all that relevant against someone who has MokutonQuote:
This made me laugh, lolQuote:
We can assume CT is as big as that meteor, if smaller, also CT isn't instantaneous, so Madara would have all the time in the world.Quote:
I keep going on and on for argument's sake, we are debating on it so we are talking about it lol
Go ahead and name them but make sure its not stuff that Nagato can stop with his shield and they only have 5 seconds to work.Quote:
Even asuming its like this Madara is going to drop first as Nagato can keep absorbing crep and replace its chakra. If Madara does the mistake of summoning Susano he is very much dead as that is a good powerup to Nagato. Not only that Madara is going to have an army of summons going his way and that huge GM statue. You can be sure he drops first.Quote:
if he states in the topic rules that Nagato does not have GM then we can't use it but when he is using manga evidence to support a claim his point is not more or less relevant then any of us. Again its irrelevant who created the OP aside from the rules posted in it.Quote:
No, GM acts by itself. Even when Nagato summoned it the GM was hitting crep just like in Tobi's case but keep tring.Quote:
Again we have:
The GM attacking crep and screaming with no spikes for Nagato.
So why would he not be able to make it attack like Tobi? Please give me a logical point and not just state he never showed to summon a GM with biju's in it as it makes no sense... Nagato just about showed that GM can do for him what Tobi did for him but only that he can also summon the Dragon..
Killed him? Nop as Chouji was big... But you can be damn sure if GM steps on Madara he will kill him (asuming no Susano is used or wood element or whatever to stop it). Then we noticed what the GM ST can do to the battlefield. Rip it to pieces and that is what it can do to the wood to.Quote:
Well that is good, laughter has good effects on the body. I try to laugh as much as i can to.Quote:
I just don't see what is the point when i am not stating Nagato would win by traping him inside?Quote:
Also i don't think its smaller, i think its bigger but who cares. Madara would also need to summon Susano as late as posible when he is close to the CT itself so Nagato is not just going to drain it.
Last edited by xXan; June 20, 2012 at 04:47 AM.
Nagato blast things away with ST? Cool, Madara can whip out clones that can attack him from all sides. He disposes of them? Cool, he can use them again, or simply enclose Nagato in a tightly closed flower world. Unless he somehow manages to do the impossible and uses ST without cool down period, absorbs at 360° and everything I really don't see how Nagato can survive, unless he simply keeps in the air to manage a draw
Why oh why Madara would whip out Perfect Susano'o when he usually fights with the bone mode?Quote:
Good job absorbing that, you need to close in to Madara first. Preta Path sunction works only by contact
Except the manga, as I showed you, convalidates what we say, and not what you sayQuote:
Except you are mistaken:Quote:
-first page, summon, where he doesn't "stomp crap" or anything, simply he is summoned, and as a result he destroy things. Like when Naruto summoned Gamabunta, and his weight destroyed the trees
-the very next page, Gedo Mazo forces the spikes on Nagato's spine before moving, or doing anything else
-Nagato is drained, after that Gedo Mazo makes a move.
nah, I'm sure Nagato let himself impaled for the lulz, after all chicks digs the impaled, wheelchaired type I bet
Of course Madara will not use Susano'o or Mokuton to defend himself.Quote:
He will go at Nagato with taijutsu skills and nothing else. Screw his powers, he is Madara!
Its very simple... Nagato flies up... Then he has his army going after Madara...Quote:
I said if and what is Madara going to do with that version? Nagato can just absorb the sword if its going his way.Quote:
It does not..Quote:
Botton right panel. He is PUNCHING. I can't post it from work but go to you tube and look for the animated version of the event. You will see it punching there to. Its more clear.
Then it screams and puts the crep into Nagato to summon the dragon... Seriously now what possible explanation do you have for Nagato to not be able to use it? He just summons the crep like any other summon and the things attacks crep. Its a summoning jutsu and nothing more.
Again find the youtuve event if the panels are not clear enough for you. The things get's summoned and it punches those people attacking Nagato away.
Problem is Nagato has counters... Even the simple fact of getting close to Madara and would eliminate the problems of wood and spores. Well most of them as Madara can't start poping crep in his own face.Quote:
Oh yes, I can totally see those surviving an eventual Flower World. What other thing he has? Shinra Tensei? He will blast a root one shinra tensei at a time. Good luck ridding Madara of his forest that he can recreate without a problem
After which Madara will switch to a more sneaky tactic, and Nagato's chakra boost from the bone's susano'o sword will be minimal.Quote:
So, not relevant imho
Ehm, are you aware Gedo Mazo rose from the ground, right? His "punching" is his arm raising from the ground and then slamming in it afterwards.Quote:
Like someone that surfaces from the ground, you know?
Problem is Nagato's only "weapons" are the bird, and Preta Path, which aren't weapons but only abilities of support, on the countrary Madara has plenty of ways to deal damage and win the fight.Quote:
Also again, good luck figuring out flower world without prior sniffing its pollen, thus ending KO. I really like how you say that he would go off on his bird then in the next sentence say that he will get close to Madara in close combat, somewhat ignoring said pollen
He has GM and that dog that can't be killed... If you poke it more will just apear.Quote:
Also the real threath is that big forest that Naruto needed the Kyuubi for extra chakra to stop. Poing just a root at a time is not going to do much as Nagato would just dodge... Nagato was very fast before he lost his legs. ST would be used to stop the big forest.
Asuming they get's into a huge runs out of chakra first this is very big as it all adds up. Even so what sneaky tactic? He is the type to overpower his opponent. Also what would that be? Sneak behind him and punch him?Quote:
No that is punching. Again go see the animated version. It even screams... Just like Tobi's version can.Quote:
Look this is all irrelevant. Its a summon. You summon it and it attacks. What exacly has Tobi used diferently? Its the same exact jutsu. Again what posible explanation do you have on why Tobi is using it diferently? What is he doing? The blasted thing get's summoned and it attacks.
This is the biggest level of nitpicking i ever got to see. Its the same blasted summon. Both casses. Nothing diferent aside from having biju's in it. Nagato was first to link with it and make it absorb jins, pop up and whatever else crep... I mean seriously wtf?
Rips the entire forst to dust and hit Madara in its way. He can just sit on his bird and blast Madara to piecess. Just look how big it is and those trees flying about.
BT to trow huge rocks:
And he can pull Madara and on the other side send a big bolder. This showes he can do ST/BT more then 1/5 seconds as he used 2 BT at the same time. Just BT and ST Madara at the same time.. Big shit there.
Then this dog that Madara can't kill and it will keep coming for him:
Extra arms to hold even Bee (who we know is stronger then Raikage):
Then he has HUGE rockets powerfull enough to ripp JMan's arm off in SM. Blow up building and other type of balistic devices.
Madara on the other hand has crep nothing to deal with Nagato casualy flying about aside from long range JUTSUS, like fire and crep and i am sure its a very bad idea to give Nagato chakra just for kicks....
He can BT Madara up in the sky Susano and all (asuming its not the huge version) and then create openings because of it.
Also of course Nagato can dodge what no Kage and Naruto could dodge when presented directly, and of course Shinra Tensei would blast it out when there are countless roots aiming Nagato's way.
Because using a Mokuton Bushin to fool the kages wasn't sneaky.Quote:
Also again, Preta Path isn't omnipotent, omnidiretional and automatic, Nagato needs to put the hand on the thing he want to absorb to do it, a sneak attack from behind with a ninjutsu will not be absorbed
Difference, Tobi's Gedo Mazo is powered by seven bijuus worth of chakra.Quote:
Nagato's Gedo Mazo is powered by Nagato's own chakra, using the spikes as medium. You, the knight of feats, should agree with me on this one, or what, you use "feats" only when it suits you?
Manga showed that Nagato's version require him to be impaled by spikes to be used, you are welcome to show Nagato using the Gedo Mazo he used to store the Bijuus in combat.
Also not only the anime isn't canon, but it always exagerate, and is not always truthful.
Have you saw Yondaime vs Tobi? He does, like, 4 flips before using Hiraishin, with Tobi simply being there, for seconds, without seeing Yondaime disappear. So no, forgive me if I don't find the anime truthful.
And even in the incredibly off-chance that you're right, Gedo Mazo will punch a tree and scream before draining Nagato.
Bijuudama material right there
Like he blasted Naruto, Itachi and Bee, as well as little trees.Quote:
Do I need to remind you just how big Mokuton trees are?
oh yes, rocks.Quote:
Uchiha's greatest enemies. He definitely can't defend against a rock, it isn't like he has a chakra arm very much like Naruto to smash the rock. You know, Susano'o? Remember Itachi and Sasuke in the forest?
Then what did Itachi do to it?Quote:
He burned him. Guess who can spam S rank Katons?
Needs close contact to do it, good luck closing contact into Flower World, or forcing Madara to fight at close distance. Of course it could be a Mokuton Bushin, since even 5 Kages couldn't see the swap one can assume it is very difficult to notice itQuote:
Susano'o armour, Mokuton trees, a ninjutsu to counter it.Quote:
So no, I just disproved everything that Nagato could use
Again with the Nagato flies argument, if he uses it, its a draw, if he goes close combat, he falls to Flower World, a Mokuton Bushin or simple Mokuton. Simple.Quote:
As for BT, reread what you wrote.
Nagato would BT Madara in the sky, from kilometers, just like that, ignoring the trees, roots, rocks, whatever there is in this way. Are you aware Nagato used Bansho Tenin always in opened spaces without obstacles, right?
Lets get one thing clear. When Nagato Summoned Gedo, it didn't attack anyone(in the Manga). Stop using episodes to make your claims. episodes add FILLER which doesn't count.
There is no need to edit the thread, Nagato can use Gedo, but ONLY in the way he has shown in the manga, and that is by being stabbed in the back and using the ghost soul jutsu.
Not even an issue here as Madara does not have Amaterasu (that he showed). Not only that we don't know if it made more of itself or not. It whent off panel. The thing is that Amaterasu aparently burns anything down to nothing. So perhaps it all burned up OR it spread to whatever other dogs where spit up making them not able to do anything because of the fire.Quote:
Again not something that Madara can replicate.
Again if its not the masive roots then it can be dodged... You said that he is going to be attacked by 1 and 1 and 1 and 1 root so he can't ST them 1 at a time. Nagato would have no problem dodging 1.
Problem here is that Nagato himself can see chakra. He will notice when he has 2 chakra signals like a human... He is not going to let his guard down thinking he killed the real one.Quote:
Not only that he will be chilling in the air and Madara can't fly.
Considering that Nagato has acces to the curent GM statue the above is irrelevant. Also you don't know if the GM statue can or can't move with no chakra. Simple fact that it can punch and it can scream with no pipies it showes he actualy can. Also that was a FIST, it was a punch.Quote:
In this instance the manga showed the same thing you just don't whant to accept it. It was a clear punch direct right at where the other people where. Nobody makes a fist just so they can open the hand when steping on something.Quote:
We don't know if they got a direct hit. Its not showed. Itachi for 1 was out of a long time. Naruto could have moved out of the way. The only 1 showed to be flying back its Bee and it sure as hell looked like there was no direct hit on him.Quote:
So Madara can make bigger trees? Big deal as you can see there the entire forest was getting ripped off where it was hit.
If you whant to go this way show me the damage Madara can do with the wood. Start posting panels.
BT then when Madara is tring to use the arm use ST oh the arm. Bam face hit.Quote:
Comparing Amaterasu and Katon... 1 stops burning the other does not...Quote:
Oh so Madara is going to be in there? Taking himself out, i love it.Quote:
Clones just as well would fall to the polen. Nagato is not going to go in there like a morn.. BT Madara up in the sky and grab him...
Not really. Just like you posted stuff that Nagato can counter so did i. But Nagato himself has long ranged abilities.Quote:
Let's try this:
1-Durability feat from Madara's wood. Show me what they whre able to take.
2-Damage they where able to do.
Can't w't for the links. Let's see what those can take and what damage they can do.
So what if Nagato get's grabed? use shield and eat them all.
Nop, its who drops down from exhaustion first even if what you say there its correct.Quote:
As long as Madara does not have anything to hit his head on the way up he is pulled up... Nagato can target 1 object easy enough.Quote:
Just BT Madara up and grab him with robot arms... If he tries Susano or a jutsu absorb it. Then rip his soul out.
Last edited by xXan; June 20, 2012 at 08:00 AM.
In which case, Madara's katons' food would be the body of the summon. Fire burns when it has a combustible, you know that right? Like when it burns wood.
As for the roots, when did I say that only one at a time would attack him, when the manga clearly showes otherwise?
Of course if he hides on the Mokuton roots like he did Nagato would see him, after all Mokuton is made of normal wood right?Quote:
But wait, if its made by normal wood how can Nagato absorb it?
Also Pein definitely noticed Naruto's KB disguised as rocks. Not.
And Mokuton Bushin is just as perfect as a Kage Bushin
Feats my friend, feats.Quote:
Show me Nagato using actual Gedo Mazo in a fight, please
Yes big deal, it only required an army of Naruto clad with Oodama Rasengans just to stop it.Quote:
I'm sure Shinra Tensei has ten times the strenght of an hundred Oodama Rasengans
Like he did against Naruto, right?Quote:
Oh wait, he didnt
Normal fire stops to burn when out of fuel, meaning when he burned everything down. It would be cool if fire would stop randomly, guess many fires would be prevented that wayQuote:
Mokuton clones would fall for the pollen.Quote:
Priceless, really priceless logic right there, I bow to you
Can take the same amount of damage that blasted Kyuubi out of his feet, as for damage they are giant roots, so dunno, getting smashed by them?Quote:
Buried by them? Crushed by them? I guess newton's laws eludes you
Inb4 Madara stabs/fry him from behindQuote:
yes, I can totally see Madara having less chakra than Nagato when he did, without breaking a sweat:Quote:
-he summoned 2 meteors
-spammed several S rank katons
-did Hashirama's normal Forest jutsu
-did Hashirama's Flower World
-Spammed 25 Mokuton Bushins clad with Susano'o
-Summoned a chakra construct as big, if not bigger than a Bijuu
While Nagato shortened his lifespan with City Buster Shinra Tensei.
Yeah, I can totally see Nagato being superior!
Why doesn't Nagato drops the moon on Madara, I wonder? There are no obstacles, right?
Amaterasu not only burns hotter then any other flame it keeps burning to the point its nothing left of what its burning. YOu going from Amaterasu could take it down to any casual katon is not going to workQuote:
You said ST them 1 at a time or something like this.Quote:
Huh? He was able to hide as those people can't see chakra. This would not work on Nagato.Quote:
Nagato needs to activate his chakra seeing to work. Its very convinient for the plot that he had it active vs Tsunade and her fodder but did not have it vs Naruto no? He has it he can use it as long as the plot does not need to make him into a moron.
I did. I showed you it punches. The anime showes the same thing. You just don't like to be wrong.Quote:
Considering it can rip the ground up and the trese with it ... Yes it will work just fine.Quote:
Its perfecly under his abilities to do so.Quote:
Stop drop and roll. Nagato clearly stated you need to take the user down as you can't do that to the pet. I am sure he would not state that if any old Katon could take it out...Quote:
Clones replicate the user completly inlucind his respiratory system, brain and everything else. What works on Madara work on them to. It was clearly stated in the manga that they replicate them down to the last cell or whatever.Quote:
If this is priceless to you i am shaking my head right now.
Also this is a manga when people bust trough walls and stuff that can explode buildings (ST) can't take out a human. Again damage done on ninja. Links.
As we all know Madara can instantly teleport behind him from the front...Quote:
1 was alive and the other was not. Madara is ET. I have yet to see 1 ET showing loss of chakra or stamina. Then we have the fact that 1 can absorb the others chakra. If Nagato grabs him for a second Madara is down on chakra levels badly.Quote:
Smug posts don't addess anything and sure as hell don't help the discussion. So again as long as Madara has no opstacles in his way he get's pulled up.Quote:
Then we have the simple fact that its a summon. Tobi did nothing aside from summoning it. The same thing Nagato can do. Its a summon. Nagato can control it, its LINKED to it. He can make it suck biju's out of hosts, he can link it with other people to take the chakra for the ritual...
Yes i am sure he can't let it go nuts as that is way hard...
Tobi's feat apply perfecly clear as Tobi only summoned it, nothing more. He DID NOTHING that Nagato can't do... LIKE SUMMON IT... What JMan can't have Gamabunta shoot water balls because it did that only for Naruto? Nonsense much?
Going rampage mode its a feat for the GM statue and NOT to Tobi or Nagato. As long as they can summon it then it have its OWN feats.
Last edited by xXan; June 20, 2012 at 09:00 AM.
Also to call a S rank Katon a "casual" katon really does you justice. Prove to me that fire indeed stops burning when it has fuel to mantain the flames, guess you can't since, you know, you would go against physics
Because its the maximum Nagato can do, ST one giant root at a time.Quote:
More he can't do, unless he uses the City Buster
Moron or not, its how the manga works, if he is not suspicious then why oh why would he activate his Rin'negan?Quote:
He automatically knows Madara can use KB? He knew Naruto could use them, yet he never took it into account. Even more if Madara hides in his blind spot
One punch before Nagato is speared by spikes.Quote:
That is what the manga shows ( let's concede you this point, I guess the fact that breaking the ground is more easily done by breaking it with a fist, and not with an open hand, remember Naruto vs Neji? ), I'm sure Nagato will become incapacitated for that single, precious punch.
Satisfy my curiosity, if Nagato had access to actual Gedo Mazo, why didn't Kabuto used him to summon the statue and gaining control of the 7 Bijuus?
Not, since given the occasion he never did it, and that was Nagato, not Kabuto controlling NagatoQuote:
We saw against the fodders how Madara's katons are like "any others Katon".Quote:
Are you aware that Mokuton users are pretty much immune to it, otherwise Hashirama and Madara would've collapsed alongside their enemies, right?Quote:
For what, wood not being obliterated by Naruto? Look it up, is when Kyuubi gives Naruto's clone chakra.Quote:
If you mean how a giant root can crush someone, look on the dictionary or the internet what "weight", "accelleration" and "Newton's laws" are
Considering he can travel through Mokuton's wood, he can't teleport, but he damn well can travel undetectedQuote:
Niidaime Mizukage was pretty beat up and tired when using Jokey Boy, same with Muu after splittingQuote:
It isn't a smug post, is being ironicQuote: