ET was not as meaningless as some people might think.
Edo Tensei brought character's growth (who still needed that) like Chouji for example.
ET brought plot weapons which obviously are intended to be used later : the Rikudou's sacred weapons.
ET triggered the whole Itachi/Naruto/Sasuke development.
ET brought Naruto's show.
ET brought Madara who'll obviously play a significant role.
The 7 swordmen are just back-up for Zabuza and Haku, the main point here is those 2 and Naruto's growth.
Well depiste its flaws, without ET, the war against white Zetsu would be boring as hell.
^ it did do those things you mentioned. but ET itself should've been a more major plot influencing factor. the factors you mentioned make it only clearer than ET was merely used as an excuse to let those ideas going in kishimoto's head coming out on papers in a short-cut way.
though after the last chapter i did have regained a bit more faith on kishimoto...madara is back, kabuto is still alive, i don't really think we've seen the end of zetsu yet and tobi and sasuke are there ofc. so perhaps we still have a hope for a grand finale full of fire power.
however that doesn't mean the half-assed parts of war arc will become good. want to show kanmaru becoming as good a puppeteer as sasori? show it properly. want to show the rookie 11? create particular missions for them like the kakashi gaiden bridge mission to show good and appropriate use of their particular abilities...fightning hordes of zetsu in full frontal battle hardly shows anything about them. Want to bring out Naruto? why not just let kages decide that they do have use him, like shikaku came to the conclusion...instead of that mindless speed contest with A, which is a blatant fan-service?
when those things happened i turned a blind eye cause i was hoping that at least the ending will be good enough for skipping those parts half heartedly. the way itachi won against kabuto and seemed to have basically ended war and et and edo madara was a huge disappointment. that almost made it sure that there won't even be any real good ending to the war which was needed at this point to make the previous flaws worthwhile.
however after this week's revelation of edo madara still being there, i did have regained a bit of my hope for a good ending to this war. though the war basically have ended, but perhaps a madara continuing to stomp would take it in dire direction for the alliance(which would be a 'first' in the whole war)...and eventually towards some intriguing ending. though that won't make the previous wrongs right, specially after defeating all other edos in lame ways...but perhaps it'll satisfy the proverbial condition of the ending being well.
Last edited by ashher; July 03, 2012 at 04:36 AM.
The war was rushed? It's 71 chapters and still going. That's a year and a half on this event. It isn't rushed. Just because some Edo Tensei were sealed off-panel doesn't make the war half-assed. Did Kishi make his chorus too big? Yeah, he bit off more than he could chew. making a chorus of 35 characters you can't give 1-on-1 battles for all 35 people for a 5-chapter battle each. That would take 3 years to complete. That's just way too long. Instead we got like 5-6 selective 3-chapter battles. Maybe not what some people wanted, but it's doable. Just because a kage hasn't died yet doesn't disqualify this from being a war. Just because some Edo Tensei lieutenant/commander hasn't killed Hinata yet doesn't prevent it from being a war. People have all these grandiiose notions of what should happen in a war and since Kishi isn't doing it, it can't be a war. Anytine you have multiple pitched battles happening over a wide range of terrain and over 130,000 dead. It's a war. There is no other answer for it.
As for the series reaching the climax. It makes sense. The trench warfare is over and you'll have battles between 4-6 people and that will be it. Whether the moon-eye plan gets launched, who knows. Maybe a small denoument to see what happened after the war. What we do know is that there will be no more Naruto after this arc so smoke them while you got them.
the scope of this war was tremendous, by trying to fit it in with mold of the previous arcs...kishimoto has squeezed things, cut out details and just jumped from one thing to another.
one little example, suigetsu finding a seal out of nowhere. if he wanted to shoe them finding something, he should've taken his time to build up for it.
also naruto was never a bullet paced manga. it took its sweet time to even show the goal of akatsuki. so cramming many things suddenly does distort its normal pace.
this is unfortunate this is not 'just one thing' that is wrong and reeks off half-assedness, rather its 'just one of those many things."Quote:
Reasonable ppl wouldn't even want much of 1-1 battles in a war. we'd rather see 'missions'...like kakashi gaiden. that's how a war is fought. even kishimoto initially was going that way with all his battle diagrams and movements...then he just cut those 'unnecessary details' out and started making head to head battles. one proof of half-assedness.Quote:
another would be that if he decided to make the war simple group fights, even there he didn't put much effort. bad guys lost too conveniently. half-assedness right there.
yeah it is a war, and reading Naruto was like reading a newspaper reporting about war. that is what no death,damage or injury to any character readers remotely care about made it feel like. so hinata and kages not dying didn't prevent it from being a war, but it prevented it from being a literature about a war,which is sad.Quote:
This i agree would be the best way to turn things around. Let the villains win the war or at least finish in on the upper hand. i don't know if the end of the war will mean end of the manga, cause if moon's eye plan does get implemented, it surely will mean there will be more to it. but i don't doubt that its the penultimate arc at the least and finishing one ideally would be a short,sharp one...more like a completion to this arc rather than a separate arc in the strictest sense.Quote:
Last edited by ashher; July 04, 2012 at 03:13 AM.
As for actual deaths, I can easily point to war examples like from FMA and One Piece, were there was only a few deaths but still held the feelings of an actual war. Even the invasion of Konoha by Pain was originally well done, before the dues ex at the end. A bunch of nameless deaths mean nothing if we have no reason to care, even more so when the characters instory don't even care themselves.
Last edited by Rikudou King; July 04, 2012 at 06:20 PM.
It's rising toward its conclusion, not its climax. And it's about time !
Its climax happened 3 years ago during the Pain invasion and it has been going downhill since then. Naruto is fighting the guy who attacked Konoha, forced his parents to sacrifice himself, leads Akatsuki and the only fuck that is given is whether Orochimaru who has long turned into a laughing stock will come back.
Remember the excitment back then ? When Sasuke finally found Itachi ? When Pain was introduced ? When Konoha was destroyed ? Remember the 1500-2000 posts weekly thread ? And look at what the threads looks like now ? And it's the same in pretty much every Naruto forum.
The war that was supposed to start the grand finale of the manga just halved Naruto's western fanbase That's definitely not climaxing in my book
Whatever happens now, Naruto vs Tobi or Madara or whatever won't have the same impact than Naruto vs Nagato, and the new finale of the manga, Sasuke's redemption, has been dragged for so long that it has lost all its power already.
Last edited by Rahan; July 07, 2012 at 03:05 PM.
No, please. No tournament unless we nerf most characters.
In Japanese language - Kishimoto-sama just said that "It's heading towards its climax". He didn't say that it is ending at all. He mentioned that "The ending of the story has been set up on my mind", which we've already known about this a long time ago, he said something like this during the Pain invasion arc. Also when the manga is ending or coming to the last part, Mangaka usually officially announces about it a year or so ahead. So basically, it is not ending in a year or two.
Other than that, Orochimaru has just come back and it seems Sasuke is going to have a power up/training from that scroll after he's learned what he wants to know about Konoha and his clan. So, it's very possible that after the war end, there might be a time skip before Taka and Orochimaru make a move. And if Tsunade died in this war, Kakashi is the first candidate to become the next Hokage (as we've seen this when Naruto's defeated Pain). Naruto is not smart enough to become a Hokage, which requires more than just power/heroic actions. And Sakura might have a power up during this time skip, too. Kishimoto wants to write about Kakashi and Sakura after he's focused on Naruto and Sasuke and about Minato's Gaiden, it's likely that we're going to see Naruto part 3.
And when it comes to money I don't think that Shueisha will let Naruto end in just two parts, when the franchise are becoming even more popular around the world. And I believe that Kishimoto-sama has enough imaginations to make another interesting part, not just being drag by his new editor. He said that he had put in too many ideas in the manga and he wants to write/reveal about so many things, but he couldn't find a good timing, and having a new editor also affect his writing too. Poor him. =(
Last edited by Sakura Hime; July 16, 2012 at 07:42 AM. Reason: My Dragon Ball parallel was incorrect. Thanks to sarutobi_sensei-san for the correction. =)
Well even if the story is reaching the climax it doesn't mean that it'll end soon. This is probably the turning point, the most important point in the story so far. This whole war that is.
Naruto is getting stronger, the true motives are being unveiled, Sasuke is probably getting his redemption soon, so that's what it means basically. The final fight will not be fought this year I believe. I actually wanted the manga to keep going to a part 3, where everything comes to an end. After they leave for training, to find things they wanted to find. That's what I wanted. A change in the story that needed the cast to go their separate ways and come back together to finish what they couldn't prior to their separation.
---------- Post added at 01:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:03 PM ----------
@ Sakura Hime - Actually Dragon Ball Z was Goku already as an adult. Dragon Ball was Goku as a teenager. A rather small one, but he was still 14/15 if I'm not mistaken. During the last fight of Dragon Ball, against Piccolo, he was 17. And Dragon Ball GT was him as an adult, again, but it wasn't based on Toriyama's script, even if he did provide how the SSJ4 design should be.
Though, like you I'd like to see a Naruto part 3 with all of them as adults. But, what or who would they be fighting? Or would they be fighting at all? How could someone rise to the power and be stronger than Naruto, Sasuke and who knows who more? This generation is supposed to be the strongest. But like it's been said, the next generation always surpasses the last. But in Naruto's and Sasuke's case I have trouble believing it to be true.
Anyway, a part 3 would be awesome imo.
---------- Post added at 01:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 PM ----------
I agree with you as well assher. This isn't a war, it's a battle of 2 days. A war usually takes some time, missions are deployed etc. But this is a Shinobi World war between the 5 nations against the forces of Tobi, Kabuto and Madara. Currently only Tobi and Madara. But Sasuke, the wild card is still on the lose now with Orochimaru of all people.
And Orochimaru being back makes me think that he will indeed transpire for a part 3 with an alliance between Orochimaru and someone else. I can't stand and see Orochimaru just going back into hiding and then coming out of his hideout to say, now I'll try to destroy Konoha again. And fail, again. Though he is destined to fail
this is a battle seen from different angles. From all divisions and most important characters.
There's also Yamato to consider saving. The guy has gone missing for like 2 or 3 days now.
All in all, this battle was meant to show characters grow and change. And it did that.