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Second Preliminary Round in the Tournament! Come on guys, vote, vote, vote! Discuss, discuss, discuss!!
There won't be much discussions unless the weaklings aren't out
I expect some intense debates if there's a group like " WB vs Shanks vs Akainu vs Garp ", that's gotta be something, but for now meh
For anyone who happend to get the vote wrong because of - well whatever reason, really - there's an option to redo your vote now. thanks for your attention~
---------- Post added October 10, 2012 at 03:35 PM ---------- Previous post was October 08, 2012 at 12:09 PM ----------
Preliminary Round 2 is ending soon, vote now or regret it ;D
The voting method may not be "practical" for some but at least we got an OP Tournament! I've been waiting ages for one to happen for One Piece and now it's arrived!
Hopefully, the next round will be more exciting. xP
- Jinbei mentionned first in chapter 69, appear first in chapter 528 (459 chapter difference)
- Vegapunk mentionned first in chapter 433 as yet to be introduced
- Kaidou mentionned first in chapter 456 (Yonkou in chapter 431) as yet to be introduced
- Akainu mentionned first in chapter 319, a shadow in Robin flashback) formally introduced in chapter 550 (231 chapter difference)
THE ONE PIECE THEORY - EVERYTHING IN ONE PIECE
I've been thinking about it for quite some time : don't you think that the One Piece World follows the principes of the Hegelian Philosophy of History ? That is Oda's inspiration and central theme behind the Ancient Kingdom, Ancient Weapons, the Void Century, the Revolution Army, and the One Piece's purpose.
There was the Ancient Kingdom's era - which was probably a society with one great ruler (like the Oriental Reign in World History where one was free), then came the time of a rebellion led by the 20 other Kings who seeked freedom for themselves, beat the Ancient Kingdom, and established a new order, the World Government, where they were free - these are the Tenryubito and Five Elder Stars who have superior rights and have became the masters (like the Greek and Roman Reigns where a few were free).
Through the World Government's Reign, the spirit of Freedom continued to develop - as proven by the piracy the World Government has always been fighting against. They're not just fighting against their strenght - they're fighting against a pirate for what he is - someone seeking freedom. They don't want that flame of freedom to burn and spread to the whole world.
The fact that there is Akainu's agressive policy in New World, which is to kill all pirates (Ceasar's words), proves the Gorusei want to kill them for what they are, for the concept they embody - freedom - and not what they do - crimes and threats. It's totally going against Sengoku's policy which was only to protect and bring security to the citizen - that's why he never cared for New World's control, but only wanted to station them there.
That also explains Sengoku's care for the Shichibukai whose job was to block pirates. Akainu's policy and the Whitebeard's war destroy the principle of the three world powers, which means the Gorusei are going next step to try stopping the Spirit Revolution - the call and fulfilment of Freedom.
Now the world is waiting for the Revolutionaries - spirit of Freedom rising - and their answer - paraphrasing Dragon's words - which of course is a new world order which would provide freedom for all. That means to destroy the current world order - World Government - which is by nature against it - that's what we are witnessing with the Revolution Army's wars in the Blue seas (like the French Revolution with equal rights against Ancient Regime).
Whitebeard's speech on " their flames will never die, they have always been sent to the next generations " is of course about the rise of the spirit of Freedom in general, and most particularly about Roger and Ace's own call/adventure for freedom. He means they will find echoes in other people's individual quests. The Will of D. are the people who are supposed to guide people towards freedom : they are the great men (as in Hegel's philosophy) who testify and inspire the world by their life and actions.
Sengoku and the others can do whatever they want, people will always look for Freedom and they are little by little raising to a higher level of Freedom - or call of freedom - so the claim for a change in the world is rising - as proven by Sabo's speech rejecting his own kind and throwing away its privileges - and it will happen no matter what : the Spirit of Freedom is developing.
Roger's mystery about his last words are to be taken in this vision. There will come someone - with Roger's amazing spirit (of Freedom) - who will guide the world to its next step - that was Roger's goal. So when Roger said he would not die, he was talking about his spirit, not his life - Roger is dead. This person who has the same spirit as Roger is Luffy - Oda has been working on their Parallel Lives since the very beginning. He will be the great man to change the world forever, the D. among the D.
About Roger, he knew he could not fulfil his dream/role - he was sick and about to die - so he decided to create One Piece so that the next Pirate King - which is the next person with same spirit and force - could lead the World Spirit Revolution he coudn't. For that to happen he left his successor with the One Piece he hid for him to find.
Roger's waiting for someone in particular as Whitebeard said before dying. Edward Newgate knows it isn't Blackbeard - despite the D. - because he hasn't got the good spirit - Roger told him about One Piece and everything's purpose. That's also why Whitebeard never seeked for One Piece, and Shanks neither. They know they're not the ones.
Shanks gave Roger's Straw Hat to Luffy because he said the "exact same words than Captain Roger." The Straw Hat represents the burden of Roger's task being pass from Roger's shoulders to Luffy's, Shanks being the one to keep it before the real successor appear. So Shanks's been waiting for Luffy - as Rayleigh said - because he thinks Luffy is the one - he has the same spirit than Roger's and he's a D.
About Roger's death, when he knew he was on the verge of death, he left Rouge, and decided to get captured by the Marine. With the execution being broadcasted to the whole world, he could make the One Piece speech being diffused to every "human" beings - be sure people would look after it and that the Golden Pirate Era would begin - more people seeking for freedom. Rayleigh's question about whether this is Roger's era or people alive making their own era is to be taken in that way.
This leads us to how Oda is going to settle Luffy and Dragon's positions. They are both supposed to lead the World revolution, and so to fight the World Government, but I think that it has to be in a different way. Dragon is directly seeking the power itself to establish the new Era and Luffy doesn't "want to conquer anything". So Dragon/Coby and others will probably build something after the World Government's fall while Luffy will stay free on the seas - if he doesn't die in the process. Also, Luffy's going to have the ability to hear the voices of all things - like Roger - probably will make a big difference with Dragon.
I guess that people are not exactly ready for Dragon's answer and that Luffy is the one supposed to turn them ready - "to turn the world upside down" - after finding One Piece. He will make an historic change into the people's spirit with the help of One Piece which has every pieces needed to make the spirit change, thus being called One Piece. Ancient Weapons, Void Century are thus parts of One Piece. Then Dragon and others will build the new Kingdom, or whatever it might be called, the new order with every being equal and free.
Wow man...! I have an MA in philosophy, and I never have nearly thought about something like that... But, yes, your theory points some pretty nice possible features of One Piece and its resemblances with a hegelian vision of history...
Let’s talk about Hegel. As you may know, Hegel is a modern thinker: and modern thinkers use to think that there is just one history, THE history of humankind, and that that history is the history of western civilization. Postmodern thinkers, and mainly postmodern societies have shown that believe to be false: there is no just one history but many histories. For instance, Japan never had something like a French revolution. So Japanese doesn’t know or live something like a popular movement searching for freedom or trying to liberate of a Monarchy, how it happens in many western nations.
This raises many interesting questions, which I can’t answer. What idea Japanese have about freedom? Is it that idea as important as it is for French people or as it is for western contemporary civilizations? I’m not enough familiar with Japanese culture to give an answer. But it is interesting to think about it. Japan has had monarchies; in fact, in present time, it is a Monarchy, they have an Emperor, but also it is a democratic state with democratic elections for the members of its Government main organ, the National Diet. If there are elections, some concept of freedom should they have. But the adoption of this western political institutions and procedures doesn’t come from a popular movement like French Revolution, but from a political and mainly economic conflict, the Boshin War. There are differences there, since, if French Revolution is a political major event, it is also a cultural major event: it changed our (western civilization) way to see the human life in society. In comparison, Japanese people has cultural traditional values deeply rooted, and the cultural meaning of the concept of freedom for them, should have to be stated searching on its relative meaning in Buddhism and Shintoism religions and cultures, much more than into the fact that they use some western political institutions…
So, it would be possible that your amazing theory could be one case of a western interpretation of an oriental story. Nothing wrong with it. In fact I enjoy the analogies and parallels you draw between Hegelian philosophy of history and One Piece. And if it’s enjoyable, I don’t care much about if it is true or false.
Coming back to One Piece, is One Piece plot a history of a movement that pursuits freedom? Is there a place for the idea of freedom in OP? I think we haven’t seen much of it. I don’t remember characters using the world, but my memory is not that good. You have to paraphrase Dragon’s worlds to make his speech match the idea, and you can see Sabo’s rejection of his privileges as a manifestation of the Spirit that search for freedom, but I don’t think he has referred to his actions as libertarian actions or something similar.
In your theory, freedom would be the main reason, the main motive, and the final objective. That could be true if it happens that the One Piece is related to it in the way your theory suggest. But your theory is pretty consistent about this hypothesis, and several elements fit well with the idea: ancient kingdom, D people, world government, Dragon and revolutionaries. So, we don’t know yet, but, yes, it could be. The idea matches with easy with all this elements of canon story.
I like the most to see D people as those human heroes required for a Hegelian view of history to drive humanity to its final realization. D people is not good or bad, but they do the things required to reach that realization, driven by the will that comes of the Spirit that search for its realization; and you can see there also the tension between Teach and Luffy, as the tension between thesis and antithesis, between two heroes of a common story that will end in the synthesis of a freedom. So it makes sense to call this history “One Piece” because that synthesis would the final reached Unity, as you pointed in the title: everything into One Piece. Also, it is not hard to find possible that members of the actual World Government, the Marine and even the Teriubytus would end being part of the final order of things.
About it, and about Dragon and revolutionaries, I could add a little element to your theory. What Dragon and Coby would have to develop would be The State in which the freedom is possible as a condition for its members, (since it is possible to interpret Hegel as thinking that in the end the Idea reach its final realization in the form of a State that makes possible freedom).
I like those resemblances between Hegel and One Piece, enjoyable if you know a bit about both things. Pretty nice crazy theory. You have a powerfull mind, thinking wild and funny things. Kudos Lord Raileyght.
Last edited by ukimix; October 12, 2012 at 10:36 AM.
Nice catch here ! Didn't know Hegel's work so i read wiki really quick about this philosophy of history and some details bother me.
From Hegel's point of view, an individual had no right in the Oriental Kingdom... So if i follow your thinking, the Kings were totally legitimate in their rebellion, right? Meaning their intentions were honorable, but over time, enjoyed too much their power or just simply showed their own limits.
My point is: Where does the Void Century fit in your theory? I mean, why did the WG erase 100 years of history if the rebellion was a good thing? Even if the means of this victory were disproportioned and horrible (Ancient Weapons), i don't see the purpose in hiding a legitimate revolution except if it wasn't that legitimate.
All the rest of the theory seems to fit really well though, so congratz
Redon, from APforums, posted mini-scans of full collection of excellent scenes published by Oda in the Logs
Last edited by ukimix; December 28, 2012 at 04:03 PM. Reason: excellent scene of Portgas D Ace added. Credits: Redon from AP
last chance to vote in threads 1-3. vote in 4-6 as well, while you're at it and look forward to 7-9 later today~ ;D
Dive to the Grand World
We had scans in the late One Piece Mega Convo Thread, but it get lost with all others threads some weeks ago. Thanks to Redon from APforums I will post it again with a link to download the whole volume (36 pages):
Here some scans.
And here an english sum up of the volume, by Anthony from wiki.
Last edited by ukimix; October 18, 2012 at 04:39 PM.
"Lavigne herself is a fan of One Piece, and One Piece manga creator Eiichiro Oda is similarly a fan of Lavigne's music." (Anime News Network)
Come and join us here, Avril. XD