I foresaw it and am totally fine with
I didn't see it coming and didn't like it
I don't have feelings either way
I didn't see it coming but am totally fine with it
I foresaw it and didn't like it
I'm reserving judgement
HI Blackjack. i always enjoy reading your reviews and the posts by all the guys here.
i rarely comment on post , but i find my self forced to defend kishi for now.
well i guess tobi being obito has ruined the chapter for most of the readers, but not me.
i absolutely LOVED this chapter.... it is one of the best ones that kishi has wrote .
this is the 1st chapter the was without text. a silent preview of obito's life.
a life which we knew how it ended , but we never got to see the brilliant build up to obito's tragedy that was shown in this chapter.
this chapter tells 2 stories , the story of kakashi and the story of obito.
they both face similar challenges , and after every defeat of obito , kakashi walks victorious...
we reach the climax here :
after he became a jounnin , kakashi gained the love of rin , the admiration of minato " who gave him the kunai ", obito's eye . and became the legendary sharingan no kakashi
while obito lost all those things, and died forgotten under the boulders.
so what's annoying about this chapter?
1- the flash back ?
well, i guess the flash back was well written , and even if we suppose that tobi is izuna " or anyone else" , then we'd still have gotten a flash back. a flash back was inevitable this chapter i guess.
2- tobi being obito?
well, we dont know that for sure. we all know that obito was half dead and he was fixed somehow.so we all agree that the key to understand tobi's identity is by understanding zetsu.
finally, i dont think that a liar like tobi will be honest when he reveals his identity, but i do believe that tobi is " no one " as he stated before.
the only " no one " in this manga is zetsu . and till now we don't know where is black zetsu's other half.
if white zetsu was a physical parasite, then i guess that black zetsu is a soul or character parasite.
so i''m guessing that tobi is:
-half white zestu and half obito in physical body
-half black zetsu and half obito in soul " or character"
i think we should preserve our judgment for now. and try to relax by watching the HILARIOUS Hitler review of this chapter .
Off: the video in your signature is super funny!
I'm going to look at it scene by scene.
1-Obito arrives at academy at age 5(he looks older) and we see many familiar figures. Kakashi and Obito stare at each other after Rin hands the latter his admission papers.
Problems:Wht is Hayate doing there?He's way younger than Kakashi
(Now conjecture: I believe Kakashi mastered the Clone jutsu in his first year at the academy and became a genin. Obito passed 4 years later. In the time interval, Kakashi became a chunnin and had a 3-man squad but for reasons unknown, the team disbanded. Minato, Kakashi's mentor may have played a part in Kakashi-Obito-Rin becoming a team.)
2-Team Minato participate in the Chunnin exams. For the team to compete, Kakashi is allowed to participate a second time.
3-Obito poses by the Hokage monument.
(Conjecture:If not a drawing error, it is possible that Minato and Hiruzen had a two-man Hokage system. While Hiruzen was in charge of administration, Minato may have been in charge of combat. So, it is possible that Minato, as a young Hokage, was still leading his own team)
4-In due time Obito becomes a chunnin but he is overshadowed by Kakashi's promotion to jonin. Soon after, Obito dies in the Third Shinobi War.
I do not believe Tobi has always been or is Obito. It may be that he is related to Obito and that he may have seen Kakashi go to Obito's grave every morning. I still believe Tobi is Obito's father. Hopefully Kishi will explain everything logically.
anyway Hayate msitake is alarming ... he is supposed to be 3 years old at that time ... kishi clearly doesn't care about timelien
Frankly, the age and graduation dates of almost nobody there match... I am surprised Kishimoto didn't include Jiraya, Hiruzen or Hashirama in Kakashi's class!!
Couldn't save Kishi. Checked out the manga and yes, at the front, there are three hokage not four. I can't believe Kishi would make a mistake like that. Hayate mistake or white hair Obito is one thing, but to actually put in Minato's statue and make Obito position himself beside it is another thing altogether. Only one drawing of Hokage monument and that too after such a long time (I think it's been over 120 chapters) as well as giving it such relevance, you'd think he would be careful to get it right.
I still stick to the theory that Kakashi was already an experienced chunnin when he joined Obito and Rin. I can't really make sense of the continuity. Gai and Kakashi facing off in the same arena where the former defeated Obito. And is Kakashi giving Obito his chunnin uniform or is he showing off(Kindness or showmanship were not really features of pre-Sharingan Kakashi).
Really a poorly done flashback.
Here's a list with the ages the characters had at the moment of their graduations (according to databooks):
Academy Kakashi --- 5 --- 25 years ago
Academy Genma --- 10 --- 23 years ago
Academy Guy --- 7 --- 23 years ago
Academy Ebisu --- 10 --- 22 years ago
Academy Asuma --- 9 --- 22 years ago
Academy Kurenai --- 9 --- 22 years ago
Academy Shizune --- 9 --- 22 years ago
Academy Obito --- 9 --- 22 years ago
Academy Rin --- 9 --- 22 years ago
Academy Ibiki --- 10 --- 21 years ago
Academy Yamato --- 6 --- 20 years ago
Academy Anko --- 10 --- 18 years ago
Academy Hayate --- 12 --- 15 years ago
Chuunin Kakashi --- 6 --- 24 years ago
Chuunin Genma --- 13 --- 20 years ago
Chuunin Yamato --- 6 --- 20 years ago
Chuunin Obito --- 11 --- 20 years ago
Chuunin Rin --- 11 --- 20 years ago
Chuunin Asuma --- 12 --- 19 years ago
Chuunin Guy --- 11 --- 19 years ago
Chuunin Kurenai --- 13 --- 18 years ago
Chuunin Shizune --- 13 --- 18 years ago
Chuunin Ibiki --- 15 --- 16 years ago
Chuunin Anko --- 12 --- 16 years ago
Chuunin Ebisu --- 17 --- 15 years ago
Chuunin Hayate --- 13 --- 14 years ago
Jounin Kakashi --- 12 --- 18 years ago
Most of them shouldn't be at the academy when they did; only Obito, Rin, Asuma and Kurenai are correct though.
Although, IMO it's being given too much importance to this matter; yes, it looks messed up, but it's absolutely irrelevant to the ongoing plot; it doesn't intevene with the Tobi's non-explained-yet timeline at all.
Last edited by Kokuryuu; September 01, 2012 at 02:47 PM.
The reveal that Tobi is currently Obito or someone in Obito's body doesn't alarm me.Kishi has a chance to explain everything.But the sensless way in which Obito's life is shown is disturbing for a writer of his calibre.Instead of a quick of Obito's life until his supposed death we are left with inconsistences that derail a decade worth of timeline.Kishi cant change the error filled flashback.Especially Kakashi's timeline.
Well, this flashback was a mess. Like many of you said the age and graduation dates of almost nobody there match. And Minato's face?...After this chapter I think nothing could surprise me anymore. We have to understand that kishi is doing whatever he wants and it's a shame because I like the ideea of this manga and I like his drawing style but I think the timeline could not be worser. Anyway I hope we will find out in 600 who tobi really is and then he can explain latter but after all these years I am sick of theories I just want to know who he is.
Leaving aside the messed up timeline that Chapter 599 has created(Did Kishi even check his work before starting this chapter.It looks like fan service!), I'm still not convinced Tobi is Obito and before the next chapter confirms some of the possibilities, I would like to make an assumption.
TOBI IS KAGAMI UCHIHA IN OBITO’S BODY
He looks different than he did when he first appeared.
He needs to implant new Zetsu cells every few months to maintain his body. Side effect of e looks different than he did when he first appeared.Immortality justsu. Just look at Orochimaru.When he fought Konan, he was getting ready for the infusion and so had his head bandaged and his damaged portion looked aged.
Obito’s claims to have given Nagato the Rinnegan & be behind akatsuki’s creation
TOBI IS NOT OBITO. I believe Tobi is a relative of Obito, most likely his father. Also, Tobi is related to Madara and Nagato may be Madara’s son from an extramarital affair. He may have acted as Nagato’s and Yahiko’s mentor and trained the earlier in the Rinnegan and inspired the later to start the Akatsuki.
Obito’s claims to be Madara
The power of the name and he could get away with it because he knew Madara intimately.
Obito’s tenure as the Fourth Mizukage
He may have left the Konoha village to learn more about the Shinobi world. By overpowering a kage, he started his project eternal tsukiyomi and started searching for co-workers, finding one in Kisame. Being a very secretive village, he felt he could get away with controlling the mizukage without being discovered.
Tobi’s relation to Kisame
Kisame might have been frustrated of the lies needed to live as a shinobi. He despised his work and so, when he heard about Tobi’s plan, seeing no alternative to the endless deception he joined Tobi.
Tobi’s relation with Madara
Tobi is most probably Madara’s son or nephew. Madara may have instructed Tobi to mentor Nagato and use his rinnegan to revive his father/uncle.
Tobi’s relation with Kakashi
Tobi knows Kakashi well but not intimately. He most probably knows about Kakashi’s visit to Obito’s grave. Strong hints that Tobi is Obito’s father.
Tobi’s relation with Itachi
Itachi may have known that there is more to Tobi but didn’t really care as Tobi agreed to help him destroy the Uchiha clan. Also, being familiar with Madara’s methods, he may have been able to convince Itachi that he was Madara.
Tobi’s skill compared to Minato
If Tobi is Obito’s father, his mastery of kamui and the sharingan may have allowed him to go toe to toe with his son’s mentor and control the Nine Tails at the same time.
Obito’s motive for the Leaf’s destruction
He wanted the kyuubi and tried to hasten his own clan’s demise by attacking the village. As the perpetrator was an Uchiha, the blame would fall on the clan and he waited until he could take revenge for his father/uncle’s banishment from the village.
Rin’s death may have played a part in this, but I believe Tobi had endured many losses due to the three Wars and believed, like Danzo, that peace could only be achieved by force. If Tobi is Kagami and he is Madara’s nephew and Obito’s father, he has really seen so much hatred in the shinobi world that he is sick of it. His father, uncle, son and mentor all died because of this hatred and so, he has embraced his former teammate Danzo’s philosophy as a messenger of forceful peace. This can be achieved by taking away free will by infinite genjutsu.
Kagami has perfected the immortality justu so he can transfer his soul to dead bodies. As the DNAs are similar, Obito’s Zetsufied body is perfect for Kagami.
Timeline shows strongly that he is the next generation after Madara and Izuna. (son? nephew?)
Teacher is Second Hokage who dealt with forbidden jutsu. (Immortality justu?)
Tobi’s ideology is strongly similar to Danzo (forceful peace). Danzo was a team mate of Kagami. (Project eternal tsukiyomi)
Timeline hints that Tobi is of the generation before Obito. (Obito’s father?)
Tobi’s words hint he knows Kakashi visits Obito’s grave and that Kakashi has Obito’s sharingan. (Obito’s father hinted strongly)
I really hope that whatever chapter 600 and later holds is mindblowing enough to make us forget the current chapter. IN KISHI WE TRUST!