Wrong. The twisting of the Amaterasu flames into various shapes, be it spikes or shield, is Enton. Kagusutchi is simply an Enton technique that creates spikes.Quote:
We are arguing in the context of a future fantasy fight. Expect improvements.Quote:
You are essentially arguing that Sasuke wouldn't improve to B because he was still at A in the past.
By all means, go ahead. Do you even understand what's a fantasy fight?Quote:
Fantasy fights means if you can't counter my strategy, I win.Quote:
Lolzz. Sasuke also didn't have Enton just 1 minute before he fought A. But whoops, he had it when he burned that arm.Quote:
Sasuke grows, but not A.
It's the heat that ultimately empowers the lightning. The more heat there is, the natural lightning that was conjured would be stronger.
Whether it's natural or not is not even the point - the point is the heat from Amaterasu does boost the power of the lightning. The whole quote that you have brought up essentially proves my point, thanks a lot.
Last edited by Ryr; October 08, 2012 at 10:45 AM.
You refuted that using... What?
No proof, no logic, only your opinion.
Sadly it isn't enough
Took straight from the OPQuote:
So whatever bullshit I write is ok, as long as you can't counter it?Quote:
Doesn't mean that, that minute before he fought A, was legit to expect Sasuke to use EntonQuote:
How its not even the point when a natural event is what conjures Kirin?Quote:
Also a lightning bolt is a lightning bolt, Amaterasu's heat was used to hasten the forming of cumuloninbus, not because Fire powers Lightning like you said.
As logic goes, the more the heat, the faster the cumuloninbus is formed, wouldn't you agree?
By the way if you are actually sufficiently acute, you would have noticed by now that Sasuke never use a handseal before casting a genjutsu, mainly because he always use his genjutsu at the most unexpected moments to trick his opponent.
Making a handseal before using a eye-based genjutsu is the dumbest thing that can only be imagined by the dumbest characters in the whole Narutoverse. And it in turns makes a dumb argument.
It is legit. You just do not have the right expectations, since you are overrating the wrong characters lolzz.Quote:
The energy from the heat was converted into lightning.Quote:
Sasuke has not even revealed all his current abilities yet. For one, do you know what his EMS can do?Quote:
CURRENT LEVEL doesn't mean ABILITIES FROM PAST CHAPTERS.
Last edited by Ryr; October 08, 2012 at 11:07 AM.
Shame Itachi and Kakashi, two of the smartest and most skilled character in the Narutoverse both did it.
For the fourth time, please enlighten me on what Sasuke was doing.
A clear answer, as you have provided me with none
So its legit to expect a never seen, hinted, known, made before ability just because Sasuke is smart and talented?Quote:
You clearly don't know how lightning is formed nor have you read the link I posted youQuote:
The energy from the heat isn't what creates the lightning, the heat creates a moist cloud, which creates lightning thanks to the circulation of warm air through electic fields.
By then, the water ( not the heat ) in the cloud accumulates electric charge and the unbalance between cloud to ground ( or cloud to another cloud ) creates an electrostatic discharge that goes by the name of lightning ( if you want to see, again, here's the wiki ).
All the heat does is create a moist cloud, heat doesn't power up lightning
( a bit awkward, I know, but I don't claim to have such a mastery over the english language that I can start explaining physics )
Current means the Sasuke that was showed until now, not Future Sasuke.Quote:
In case you don't know what current means:
So, as you can see, OP meant this Sasuke, the one showed until now, not a future Sasuke or an ipotetic Sasuke.Quote:
The moment Sasuke will show an electric Susano'o sword or a Senbonzakura-like Amaterasu control or all the things you wanted him to have I will gladly eat my words, until then what you wrote is purely fanfiction
I'm not saying Sasuke can keep up with A's max speed or follow it with his eyes, just that I'm skeptical about that part.
Sasuke can get Susano'o up in time though. Since he's fought A before, Sasuke should be able to tell better when A will go max speed and react accordingly, since A apparently visibly goes Super Saiyan. This may not be as much of a problem as you make it out to be for Sasuke. He'll certainly be challenged, but he'll be better prepared this time.
And yes, I do doubt everything in the manga because things are not always as they seem. Just because Sasuke couldn't keep up with A's speed visually doesn't mean that's always the case, as he was still using Amaterasu. And no, it has nothing to do with how I feel for Sasuke, especially since I don't even like him.
And you're underestimating Sasuke too much. Why accuse people siding with Sasuke of overestimating him, but fail to point out that Minato's overestimated as well? Or that you give him power that doesn't exist?
Read the fight. Sasuke nearly got beaten by Mei because he was in pain, injured, and nearly out of chakra. Mei fought the Sasuke that fought Raikage and Gaara, outnumbered, and used up lot of chakra and got hit. He was also in pain from Susano'o. Zetsu saved Sasuke by giving him chakra.Quote:
Sasuke was in pain and injured. Despite getting chakra, he was still tired. Same Sasuke who fought two kage, at least two of their aides, and still managed to get away. Same Sasuke who was outnumbered.Quote:
Lightning Infuserd Susanoo Amaterasu Sword? Are you trying to be a troll, or have you just completely gone off the deep end when it comes to Sasuke?
Amaterasu doesn't block one's eyesight, and he has 2 eyes, not just one.
Of course he can set up Susano'o in time, and I am a firm believer that Sasuke can win against Raikage even without using too much chakra.
What I'm a believer in is Sasuke not being blitzed by A in V2 without Susano'o, because everything in the manga suggests that Sasuke can't follow him.
And yet I don't see you berating Ryr because he came up with Amaterasu boomerangs, using Enton Senbonzakura-like attacks and a Susano'o sword coathed in lightning, while marshall just gave an interpretation ( which can be believable even if you hate Yondaime's guts ) of a phrase and a lot of people, you included, gangbanded on him.Quote:
And you talk about people overestimating Yondaime, or making things up? After what this topic produced?
I may look like I'm upset, but I don't think its fair on someone receiving such a treatment when others escapes from it because they aren't talking about Minato Namikaze, bane of this forum
Sasuke was already moving at the time, and Sasuke's not as fast as Raikage, so it wasn't a speed out of nowhere. Sasuke didn't anticipate that kind of speed or get any warning that Raikage would dodge the Amaterasu. While it doesn't block the eyesight, it still requires the user focuses on one point. Makes it harder to pay attention to the person itself who's fast as hell.
I'm actually rocky on this though. Not sure if A can blitz Sasuke or not, and wheether Sasuke requires Susano'o. I know he definitely does in close quarters, especially since his chidori most likely can't hurt Raikage bad enough.
I'm not suicidal like you or Sasuke, I'm not taking on multiple enemies. Plus, you guys are doing a good job questioning Ryr regarding the Susanon'o sword coated in lightning. Not sure about the other two attacks though, I don't remember that.
marshall insists it means Minato can beat Raikage. All I'm arguing is that it doesn't necessarily mean so, just that Raikage THINKS Minato is better than him. All I want is proof that Minato can damage Raikage in some way.
People say he can break out of high level genjutsu when almost no one else could. People say he can beat Tobi if they meet again (he could, but thanks to Izanagi, I'm rocky on this). Some even said he could do kage bunshin or had fuuton. How is that not making things up? Plus, I only see one person giving Sasuke attacks that I don't remember exists.
I'd call anyone out on making up stuff, whether it's about ITachi or Nagato.
Plus, I did say Sasuke would lose to Oonoki. <_<
Did someone reply to my post in regards to me saying Sasuke beats Gaara easily? Forgot, but I think that because Sasuke has speed and better mastery of raiton/chidori. Gaara had trouble against Sasuke in Part I, and Sasuke should be able to keep up his speed longer. Plus, unless Gaara makes tons of sand and condenses it, I don't see him defending against chidori.
Yeah, back then Sasuke had trouble holding Susanoo the first time he formed it and got worn out from his previous battle. Fortunately, that's not the case anymore. Against Danzo, Sasuke showed that he can use Amaterasu and Susanoo for a much longer period without wearing himself out, and currently Sasuke has shown the ability to use his MS techniques dozen of times without a sign of weariness. So current Sasuke isn't gonna be in the same position as summit Sasuke was. Now if the only argument is that Sasuke will become too tired to fight, then another argument is needed.
When Sasuke used Enton to create a shield covering his Susanoo, faster than Raikage's V2 speed could hit him, lolOriginally Posted by Uchiha_Blood
Even worse, Sasuke was recovering from the recoil of firing an Amaterasu WHILE coating his Susanoo with Enton. Multitasking FTMFW.
Too fast to be hit with Enton. You guys... lol. You guys.
I don't need to read that. One frog has the special ability to change his body into a bulding. It does not even manipulates an existing building. Now you are using this to state that a jutsu that teleports part of a frog belly to a place has the ability to change a house in a frog?Quote:
1 jutsu transports there a frog who can change itself, its the special ability THAT frog has.
The second jutsu transports there the esophagus of a frog. The jutsu is a Kuchiyose, a teleporting ability. I am sure if the Kuchiyose (not even a frog) had the ability to change the building into a frog somewhere it would be stated.
Even the anime version showes the flesh growin on the walls. Not really relevant as it has some mistakes like leaving the lights uncovered when in the manga that does nto happen and a few other thing. But just putting it there.
To the point the manga proves the databook wrong its valid. If the databook states JMan sage mode combination with 2 other elder sage moade toads can produce a fire burning at thousands of degrees then that is how it is to the point the manga proves it wrong. Same for JMan's ultimate Rasengan. You can't just go "oh i don't like that so i will just call it a hyperbole and be done with it".Quote:
Still a manga. Why is a fire that Sasuke spits out to form a great fireball does not damage him? How can ninja's who should have human durability hit rocks and make big holes and are left just fine? How can a house come down on top of Kakashi and Kakashi ends up just fine? How can Danzo function with no bloody heart? If curently Obito was really noticing trough Kakashi's eye in curent chapters how is a link with no link achived? Would you expect in real life if you remove your eye to still see with it?Quote:
How can a genjutsu exist where your mind is still active but time is stopped (Itachi's MS)? How can the neurons left in the real world exchange information?
Dude i can keep going like this. In the end its still a manga. Take Superman. Real life physics would state that he can't lift a building and don't have it crumble all around him but he still can... WHY? Because the comics state so. The same thing with moving a planet or moon or anything else. Hulk was able to lift (with help) a mountain. Why did it not crumble around him? How about in WW Hulk holding 2 tectonic plates togeder with his hands? Why did the rock where Hulk was holding not come lose?
Comics and mangas... If the comic/manga/databook states something as true then its accepted to the point its proven false in the comic/manga/new databook (like showing Sups lifting a building and crumbling around him).
The thing is they don't need to get the same distance. They just need to go up, release some heat and then come down and set whatever else on fire where they land. Considering the increase number of projectile and the multiple places burning... It should not be a problem.Quote:
Now why did Sasuke never used it again... Well plot hole. He could set up Kirin beforing going in the kage meeting even if he would consume a lot of chakra and then just wave his hand blowing the entire place up and killing them all.
Kishi had to limit its use.. Hell Sasuke can fire one even with no prep. When Naruto found him at Orochimaru's place Sasuke was ready to fire one out of the blue and Orochimaru stopped him. Probably less effective obviously but still.
This is not about Sasuke acting stupid, its about most of the people acting stupid when the plot needs it so. Why has Obito not just warped Naruto away when he was a kid or something. Its not like it was a secret that he was the Kyuubi? I am sure you can find a lot of examples for this.
Also Amaterasu > Kirin depending on the situation. If its a random fight it takes time to set Kirin up and if its (example) vs Tsuck then he needs to snipe him fast.
But yeah Kirin was left behind as it was to powerfull. Hell vs Zetsu it was raining and he could have blew them all with Kirin, he did not even need to set it up. But he whent with Susano so Kishi can show us his new Amaterasu trowing ability AND because Kirin needs to be left behind as it is to overpowered. Let's say he had to use 3 (or was it 4) dragons with CS on, then let's say its 6 or 7 in normal mode dragon fireballs. What you belive he can't trow them? Vs Itachi when he used those 3-4 he was already running low on chakra. The thing i find about CS in the databook is that it allows you to release your true potencial. Sasuke just about got there. His chakra is as powerfull as you can get it aside from getting some senju DNA.
He can still do it, and he can 1 shoot most people in this manga just by trowing some chakra. That is unless you don't belive he can cast 6 or so dragon things in normal mode.
Now considering Itachi when close to death and in the overall state he was casted some 6 or 7 (i don't remember) MS jutsus... MS jutsu > dragon things if you ask me.
Most of those examples are with physical stats increase. Arrow could be because he had more stg to work with to shoot them at better power.Quote:
Naruto curently using his RM mode did not increase his power of the rasengans. That was just a normal rasengan from what i can tell. It made a big flash but i sure as hell don't know why. Perhaps because Sasuke's chakra mixed with Narutp's kyuubi chakra but as we can see from Naruto using RM and rasegans the power is not increased.
Come on. I know Tobi has a better body and all but Minato damaged him with a rasengan. Now asuming Minato was lucky to get a better spot where it was less protected by the Zetsu stuff and still if Naruto had much more power...
From what i can tell CS forces more chakra out of the user, makes your body way better and probably makes your chakra stronger.
Redirect the arrow? Perhaps if Gaara is luky enough to have the sand in place and the arrow hitting it by chanse. Kabuto acted on the event only because of SM, Kakashi and Danzo because of sharingan. Gaara is not fast enoug. That sand is not fast enough to keep up even with Sasuke just like in part 1. Granted his speed increased in controling the sand but so has Sasuke speed. Kakashi with all his speed can't dodge the arrow and had to use MS. Kakashi after predicting the arrow could not move his body some 30 cms to dodge that arrow. Gaara with no sharingan and the sand defenetly not fast as Kakashi is not going to.Quote:
The sand stopped Raikage because he grabed him by most of his body, his lower back and but included. Its like grabing a knife but not only from the pointy thing.
Amaterasu when not focused does not even burn trough Karin's back or trough the samurai armour. Not impresed with that feat Gaara has...
Now Sasuke using his armoured Susano and trusting a spear inside that sand you can be sure Gaara is by by.
Probablem with Gaara here is that he can't keep distance and he can't back away. He has a handicap as he is in a close space. If this was outside things would be COMPLETLY diferent. Inside Gaara is just about stuck with what sand he has on him and he can't even look at Sasuke to keep up with him or end up drolling on the floor. Sasuke can just use his shunshin to run circles around him and use his chidori spear (or whatever its called) and slice him in half. Gaara in a closed space has no chanse to even put up a fight here.
Using Susano is just overkill. He just pops Susano and walks casualy to Gaara and impales him on his Amaterasu spear. What can Gaara do, he can't back away or fly away, he is stuck with the sand he has in his pot and that is not enough to protect him if vs Kimimaro he needed his ultimate defence to defend.
Sasuke COMPLETLY dodged Amaterasu and Itachi had to chase him down. Sasuke would need to be close in speed to full speed Raikage to even do that. Seriously how was Sasuke even able to move out of the way when Itachi can chase him down with Amaterasu moving faster then Sasuke after Sasuke had a lead? It makes no sense. Sasuke should not be able to dodge Amaterasu poping in his face IF Itachi can get to him after Sasuke started to run and even got a lead. The only explanations is that Itachi missed, on purpose or not. If Amaterasu can move faster then Sasuke they he should not be able to start running.Quote:
Perhaps Sasuke is better then Itachi, point is Raikage had to amp himself up to full to dodge. Hebi Sasuke is not even on casual speed Raikage's level of SPEED, he could keep up with his sharingan but in runing speed? No way. That casual speed Raikage decided he needs full speed and shunshin to dodge.
He at least has arguments. Any time you post you just end up using nonsesen. Like this post.
Then you live it like this and never giving examples of what you mean. You just acuse and don't provide and arguments.Quote:
When Sasuke was running on fumes and could not use Susano to bust out... If that was Sasuke at full power he would have ripped her appart. After Sasuke got some chakra back as he was in insane pain and almost out of chakra he busted out like nothing.Quote:
Yes let's compare Sasuke with no chakra (close to) and when he can't defened himself vs 100% Mei.. As i said, nosense.
Because that was a diferent Sasuke, he had to use to much chakra to get pass Raikage and then Gaara... Right now he can spam MS better, he even has EMS. He has diferent abilities bub.Quote:
Tsuck needs handseals and Sasuke just needs to blink and the old man dies. Yes he shoots first. Also Sasuke can just shunshin and decapitate the old man before the handseals are complete. This is a closed room. He can't even fly away.
Last edited by xXan; October 09, 2012 at 01:39 AM.
1. Giving him power like he can infused his lightning to his susanoo`s arrow. So, for saying that he doesn't have that kind of power is nonsense?
One more thing, I have a manga scan that can support my claim. And not some wanna be mathematician who keeps in insisting that his opinion is valid, accurate and a fact.
2.how come it was nonsense? Sasuke who would going to fight mei after gaara and raikage, would never have a 100% of his chakra. So sasuke is destined to become mei`s bitch if he can't defeat rakage and gaara in a minute or if he cant save his chakra in his fight against the both of them.
3. It doesn't matter if he have a new power, or he can spam any shit he wants, but does he have the chakra to spam that shit in a day? Hell no. His chakra capacity is the same as sasuke who got beaten by the kages and sasuke who almost got killed by oonoki if obito didn't came to save his butt.
4. Does oonoki needs a hand signs? I wonder. Are we reading the same manga? Honestly, you should stop making up things just to make sasuke look better. Sasuke can't defeat oonoki. The last time they fought is a proof that sasuke needs to be on madara`s level to defeat that old man. Oonoki can fire his dust element first before sasuke can use any new shit power he has. Oonoki doesn't need any hand signs for his dust jutsu, that's a manga fact. You can't do anything about it. The moment sasuke will enter to oonoki`s room, he can eat oonoki`s jutsu directly to his face. No but`s and if`s nor he can as for a time out. Oonoki can spam his jutsu just to destroy sasuke. Ems? Those eyes is useless to oonoki.
Just like the Amaterasu sword, Sasuke's mastery over it enables him to summon them in conjunction with Susano'o
Only one person insisted all that, lemonadez, and what marshall did was interpreting a phrase which, just saying, got interpreted in the same way by the anime translators.
Just baffled how the same people that were so righteous in debating a phrase are now indifferent to something way worse
Amaterasu doesn't burn at that temperature, for the reasons I explained you. Goemon can be said to do the same thing. Jiraiya's Rasengan can't, using common sense, be as strong as a Bijuudama
Not really relevant, I explained already to you what would happen should Amaterasu really burn with the same temperature of the sun ( the "coldest" even, as the sun has different areas ) and I already posted an example on a manga:Quote:
Yamamoto's bankai. If Amaterasu burned like that, I assure you, it would evaporate the very enemy it touches, focus or not
Incorrect, those dragons traveled up high in the air, they didn't just go up and exploded to produce some heat.Quote:
Do search for cumuloninbus in the wiki.
How it can be a plot hole if Sasuke is never hinted to be able to do such a thing?
He used a very specific jutsu to do it, not some random Gokyakuu.
Considering the boost CS give, I doubt its only 6 or 7.
Always remember Jirobo that said his strenght increased tenfold. At worst, he would need to double the number of dragons, and even then is being generous.
Sasuke wasn't even tired before using them, he used only Oral Rebirth as an expensive jutsu, meaning he had likely at least half of his chakra capacity left.
If 4 dragons could exhaust him ( as Itachi pointed out ), I think 8 dragons will do the same, even though his stamina increased.
CS greatly increases everything by forcefully drawing out chakra and eating away at the user's soul, and never use Rasengan as a measuring stick, its the most inconstat jutsu in the mangaQuote:
we can agree to disagree thenQuote:
Sasuke didn't completely dodge, he saw Amaterasu coming and moved before Itachi could use it, then he ran until Amaterasu caught him.Quote:
That was someone with info using the "weakness" of Amaterasu:
the moment you see blood and you can follow the user sight, you can guess where Amaterasu will appear, and act accordingly.
That's exactly what he did. He couldn't see his Susanoo with his neck turned, so it's literally impossible he just spawned new Enton flames on top of the bones without using flames he already created. Amaterasu spawns from point of eyesight. Enton spawns from already created flames. Simply look at every moment he used Kagutsuchi or another attack labeled Enton: they ALWAYS originate from a previously manifested flame.Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood
While I'll agree that Sasuke had Susanoo on every time he manipulated his Amaterasu, it makes no sense to believe that he needs it to do so, as turning off the Amaterasu flames count as manipulation, and he didn't need a Susanoo to do that.Quote: