Also, they weren't that much naive, I guess. As Nodt, for instance, didn't say anything like he was going to defeat Bankai Byakuya because he was superior to him and instead, stole his Bankai and used it against Byakuya. They were hardly cautious by any means, though. They lacked observation.
That said, I don't agree with the theory that they are above captain class that easily. They still prevented the captains from using a great share of their power with those medallions. If they were superior in equal conditions, why did they bother to come up with such a trick? Plot armor or not, if you bother leaving your opponent shorthanded through such a way, it means you are probably not superior in terms of power.
http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...6-page-20.html or http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/502/15 or "Quincy Lord：やはり我が星十字騎士団は甘さだけが欠点だ
It seems leniency is the only flaw my Stern Ritter possesses" or "Looks like the only weakness our Stern Ritter has is naivete"
The research/science development were responsible for analysing the battlefield situation & in that short period of time, they easily concluded they were above captain class fighters (the fact that techs such as Heilig Pfeil, Sklaverei, Blut (Vene & Arterie), Medallion, Hirenkyaku, Sankt Zwinger are at their disposal makes that statement all the more true). Vollstandig full might should have cleared the doubts easily (if an undeveloped fragile human quincy like Uryu used the incompetent, fragile, discarded verson of this tech to decimate a captain in bankai with ease, what do you imagine an above captain class quincy with developed skills would do with an improved verson of that tech?).
Fact is Bach knew the captains were no match for his sternritter going all out. The captains are outclassed, outmatched & required a reason as to why they weren't all killed (& that was the characteristics of the sternritters).
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You you gave the these statements a proper thought (the statements I'm about to show below) you may also understand how highly Bach considers his sternritters. How high a lvl they must be.
"We were never incapable of stealing your Bankai. / However, your power is so great, I suspect none but myself would be capable of controlling it. // For that reason, I instructed Royd not to appropriate it until I returned."
It’s not that we are unable to take your Bankai
But anyone other than myself is most likely incapable of controlling your tremendous power
Which is why I had ordered Royd not to act until I returned"
Discroll and those other three are "many" now, it's a "few".
Throw some more negative adjectives, it will make your comment look even more reliable. :P Let's go to thesaurus and find some more words with the same or similar meaning. Are you in denial of what they did? They did destroy much of SS because the plot demanded so and it was shown in even shown in the manga. They only went back because their time limit has been reached already.
Last edited by Schabrak; January 19, 2013 at 08:28 AM.
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Are you in denial that they would have caused far more destruction had gone all out?
Regarding the issue of who it was that stomped Kenpachi, I see no reason to believe it was Bach himself. As others have said, there was no opportunity for a switch between the two in the time between Kenpachi being defeated and Yamamoto arriving on the scene. Plus, for Bach to set foot on the battlefield before running his 'errands' would risk foiling his whole decoy scheme. It's an unnecessary chance I don't think he would bother taking. Royd possessed his personality and memories and was evidently packing some substantial power; he was perfectly equipped to handle the task of dealing with any Special War Potentials or other issues if he ran into them, in exactly the way Bach himself would have handled them. Royd knew everything Bach knew - effectively he was Bach, so he would have made any decisions using Bach's judgement, exactly as the real thing would have done. Bach didn't need to be overseeing the invasion at all.
Plus, we now know that Muken isn't just a prison, but an endless, empty dimension. That goes to explaining why Bach's dealings with Aizen took so long; it most likely took him some time to even find him in there.
Now they are just captain class, not above captain class, so agree your before statement is bullshit. Apparently only you and Torran are backed up by manga statements and logic, funny concept going on here.
Could or should doesn't matter, they did destroy it to a good degree, that's a fact that you can't disagree with.
Don't worry Torran, something is coming your way too, it will take a bit to present your bias in a non overloaded way. Having read the Tousen fight again, your whole argument seems so weak already.
Last edited by Schabrak; January 19, 2013 at 08:41 AM.
Anyway, the sentences you provided which I already know of doesn't tell anything about how highly he considers his subordinates. He really doesn't give anything really what happens to his subordinates as shown at the later scenes and that order, to me, is a proof of that. He knew the outcome of that battle exactly. The reason he didn't order Royd to steal it was so that Captain-Commander would fall into trap and use it again facing himself.
.Shaz was trying to introduced himself to an enemy when he should have being on guard
.The Roar became a gaint ape & stated attacking shinigamis in short range
.Loyd copied the characteristic of an individual perfectly but he copied Zaraki (who has the tendency to limit himself for the enjoyment of battle) & thus Zaraki merely had to become stronger than himself.
.The question was ranting on, taking while she should have being focused (she was still in that motion of speaking while her throat was sliced).
. Kirge has proved he is ignorant & oblivious to his environment hence almost killed by Allow & also he observed the enemies that might be on to him thus Grimmjow killed him from behind.
.Discroll exposed himself to Yama in the shortest distance possible & used a bankai he couldn't properly control. After hitting Yama with that bankai he was under the impression that the old man couldn't move at all & thus his stupid assumption caused him his skull.
As Nodt, Mohawk sternritter & NaNaNa all got owned by Yama in a stupid fashion & only Mohawk sternritter was shown alive (Quincies don't use blut at the same percentage. So use blut vene 50 percent & others 30 percent).
My statement is not BS (it's not my statement to begin with, it's the manga's). Your statement exemplifies that very word made up Bullshit. The researched team analysised these individuals & concluded they were above captain class. What right do you have to say otherwise?
Vollstandig should have made that statement even more apparent considering an undeveloped (weaker than vice captain) quincy like Uryu used it (an inferior verson of it) & decimated a captain in bankai mode. A tech that goes beyond the limits (literally).
They destoryed SS by a good amount & they would have done more damage had they being serious (not to mention faster). That is what I'm taking about!!
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Kirge mentioned Uryu's potential (he thought Uryu should be much stronger) but how is that relevant to that fact that Vollstandig pushes the body beyond it's current limits. It pushed SS Uryu to the max (& beyond) & look at what he did with it.
Kirge is however developed & skilled. He could absorbed not just particles but actually beings themselves & use their power. He even lasted against a current Ichigo to so extent.
I've already mentioned the difference between Letzt Stil & Vollstandig in another thread (which you were aware of). I'm not repeating.
He suspected that likely only him can fully control the power of zanka no tachi (think it though again).
The Roar used his ability and likely Blut Arterie, how stupid of him to fight the way he usually fights, how incredibly stupid of him using his prefered way of fighting.
We have no information regarding Loyd not being able to use any of his Quincy abilities while copying Zaraki. We don't know if Loyd wasn't capable of growing similar to Kenpachi or not.
The Question asked the wrong questions, bad match-up, a trully idiotic way to die, nothing to argue here.
Quilge had nothing to fear with his experience and knowledge about the strongers arrancar and doing his job as the leader of the scout team for an unknown amount of time, who could have known that someone of Grimmjaws caliber was on to him? It's called suprise attack for a reason.
Those guys were overconfident because they knew they could steal their bankai, it's their own fault for depending on tricks too much. How lame and idiotic this manga would be if none of the heroes or badies had any characteristic flaws.
Vollständig is capable of stealing of others powers and energy, again a hax ability to begin with. I'm not gonna argue about it being strong, that's obvious to anybody reading the manga. We don't know if no one else but the walrus moustache guy used it or not.
About the neck tanking, you do realize that it was shikai Ichigo, that hit him, not bankai. But even Byakuya got through with shikai only Also why does he have to mention Bach about strenghtening Blut?
Last edited by Schabrak; January 19, 2013 at 10:02 AM.
But that aside, you should make fan fictions. I'm sure someone as knowledgeable as you can write Bleach fanfics while being pretty accurate to what Kubo could write. Hell, maybe Kubo will take inspiration from your writing and incorporate it into his own manga. That'd be awesomely sugoi, man. Go for it.
I think Kenpachi got beaten because of the other guy's spirit power being higher. We know it takes certain amount of reiatsu to deal damage, at least back when Ichigo and Kenpachi were actual enemies. I don't see why people are shocked Kenpachi would be injured, especially by a Quincy. The invading Quincies did train to take on shinigami after all, and they kill hollows.
wow is someone ever arrogant. if they both can turn into different people doesnt that mean they have the same power? one copies memories and the other copies powers... THEY COPY DIFFERENT THINGS BUT ITS THE SAME FUCKING POWER! two different choocolate bars are at the end of the day still chocolate bars. if they can both transform into people tat means they have the same power just because one has a different variation doesnt mean its a completely different power, thats stupid.
''when they were 12 they realized they can imitate not only themselves but others''
One can copy abilities and the other copies memories but both transform into different people... thats like two sides of a coin lol sooo different , if they were one person they could probably do it all but they are twins for plot device so YOU re-read the manga. your seeing things the way you want and not how they are, your picking at every little thing cause kenpachi got beat.
so the fuck what?
lol it was bound to happen and the thing is we dont even know the sr power levels. as i said royd could be the strongest we dont know but one thing we do know is that he beat kenpachi end of story. he had to be stronger than him to beat him its that simple, kenpachi was steamrolling everyone its no surprise he would get destroyed eventually. just because it wasnt bach doesnt mean someone cant beat him lol
the sr were shown to be on par with captains, so lets say royd is like 3rd strongest under hashwald, that still means in an army that completely wiped out ss in a matter of hours hes still gonna be a monster even is hes 3,4 of 5 in strength, they swept ss no problems. now combine that strength with bachs experience and fighting style theres no doubt he wouldnt win, kenpachi is a simple hack and slash, pit him up against someone with bachs level of fighting and hes bound to lose, even if he was a clone
the thing pissing me off the most about this thread though is that people dont realize that if bach was gonna pick someone to imitate him he had to to strong
lol wtf hes not gonna get the weakest mofo to play him lol youre gonna need someone legit to fool the enemy and apparently royd had the power to do it so get over it, it was kenpachis first loss it was bound to happen.
royd beat kenpachi therefore ryod > kenpachi.
you can be mad all you want it doesnt change it, you can change it in your day dreams of bleach
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sorry for the random giant fonts but people never fully read the posts they just skim them and start a senseless argument over a line they read wrong lol
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thats all there is to it, i dont see how people can find so many flaws with one simple thingQuote:
Last edited by Kid Chameleone; January 19, 2013 at 08:04 PM.
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16 or 6 high level combatants of captain class or above, which is at the very least true for "Captain class" as almost nobody managed to kill a Stern Ritter, and chances are some of them where "above" (Bach and Haschwald pretty much confirmed).
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quickly understood what was going on, was aware of the level of power he'd reached and focused on avoiding getting hit. That's far from naive and carefree.
outclassed by Mayuri and yet when he used the Letzt Stil he split his Bankai in half with ease.
increases the user's ability to manipulate reishi and it feels like an increase in power, not to mention it can only be used for a short moment before consuming the user's power and that it has only one wing while the Vollstandig is capable of enslaving spirit particles to an absolute level and it's capable of the total absorption of reishi on an entirely different level, can be used indefinitely and has two wings.
Kubo is about to give a power-up to Kenpachi and I guess the next quincy he'll face will be in big trouble. The manga already attributes a certain degree of strength to Kenpachi and his power-up will be even more believable due to his feats. SS fears that Kenpachi will be unstoppable if he gets any stronger, even Haschwald acknowledges that Kenpachi is a monster which earns him a place in war potentials. Once the captains are free to use their bankais, they'll most likely turn the tables on their quincy counterparts, IMHO Kubo is preparing the stage for shinigami's comeback and Kenpachi's onslaught.
Mayuri was careless and overcondident at this page and the following one.
Yeah he sure wasn't non-focused, but that didn't stop him from thinking that he's above Uryu and capable of handling him. Knowing the enemies potential power and still being confident in oneself aren't two exclusive traits, of course he could have been both.Quote:
Vollständig seems to be the stable version, and therefore easier to handle.The fact that it doesn't fuck with the Quincy once used makes it far more usable, doesn't make it stronger overall though, because Letzt Still could potentially be capable of the same, only that Uryu was by far not as good of a Quincy, as his father or Quilge seemed to be, in his that fight.
edit: Please edit your post, part of it is doubled.
Last edited by Schabrak; January 20, 2013 at 11:13 AM.
And if they are portrayed as idiots, well, it's because they are idiots. Kenpachi isn't a genius, either, so, why does that make it unfair?
The only reason he was reduced to ashes and the other three that attacked the Captain-Commander weren't was the reasoning point. The Captain-Commander avenged his life-time subordinate, who was like a son to him, going all-out. Others were merely thrown out of the way to the boss fight with Bach.
The only problem is I'm talking about how confident he was about his Bankai power overwhelming Ishida's sudden boost, not before he went Bankai.
What does wings have got anything to do with this, anyway? Neither of the Vollstandig performers showed us the same attack power Ishida showcased against Mayuri. As an instance, Grimaniel didn't blow up Kyouraku's head as it should, going by the very same logic.