Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (2/16/15 - 2/22/15).
! Visit the new forums for Tokyo Ghoul and The Gamer!
Forum News: Vote in the final phase of the Anime Awards 2014
So, when I was watching the Arrancar arc not too long ago the Vasto Lordes were held up as they should be saluted trough song for all time. I think I remember the nr3 Espada Harribel being a Vasto Lorde. Now Toshiro mentioned that like a handful of these Vasto Lordes were enough to take down the Soul Society.
What I don't get now is how they got completely destroyed by the Quincy. Were there really no Vasto Lordes revealed before or were they just over hyped or are the Quincy really impossible to beat for SS?
Although the Quincy took over Hueco Mundo, so did Aizen. It was also suggested that he did this without encountering the majority of the Vastro Lordes.
This was due to them hiding away throughout the hollow realm.
Perhaps the Quincy just avoided/did not come into contact with them?
I think and I hope that the VL are - as I already wrote in one of comments -like the 0 squad of HM. They do not really want to interfere. They just want to live their lives, maybe hunting prays; or maybe they even completely lost their will to do anything at all becuase of what they are, too strong, too lonely etc. Maybe now, that HM is occupied by the VR, who are clearly not hollows and they even look down of them even enslave them, some of the VL will show up to [try to] clear up the mess and to make HM a comfortable arabian desert again... And because of this they might even help out the shinigami.
Imagine if it was the VL who turned up at the end of the last chapter, and not Ichigo.
They end up forcing a retreat for the Quincy - however when 0 squad shows up, they initially think the hollows were involved and thus fight them.
This misunderstanding stops any chance of a hollow-shinigami vs Quincy truce...
Not sure I like the idea, but it is interesting at least...
Kubo actually said in an interview that most of the Espada were Vasto Lorde level. The use of the word "level" sticks out to me, because he might mean that after becoming Arrancar, the Espada were about as strong as maksed VL. He's been pretty evasive about confirming or denying the presence of VL in Aizen's army, I think. It's never been explicitly stated who, if anyone, was or wasn't one. Even in the Harribel episode, the closest we get to being told is Apache thinking to herself "is she a Vasto Lorde?" -- It was never confirmed.
My thoughts? Yammy grew to become Espada 0, and there's no way in hell that guy was a VL. Every bit of information we got regarding them; their intelligence, the fact that they were the only Menos guaranteed to take on a humanoid form when made into Arrancar, the fact that even in their base form they outstrip captains in terms of power - Yammy was a walking contradiction to all of that. Really, what purpose did making him 0 Espada really serve, if not to demonstrate that the most powerful Espada was an Adjuchas, and therefore, the Espada below him were also Adjuchas (except Aaroniero)?
And even after Grimmjow's raid on the Human World, Aizen was talking to Gin about gathering the VLs and perfecting the Espada. That suggests that he didn't have them yet. It's possible that he had already located them, but given that even some of his current Espada were less than happy about taking orders from him, he didn't want to risk gathering a group of 10 overpowered insubordinates. Maybe he wanted to wait until the Hogyoku unlocked his new powers until approaching the Vasto Lordes?
So I think it's possible that the Vasto Lordes are still out there. Of course I can't be sure, and I'm not going to wait with bated breath for them to appear when there's so much other cool stuff going on in Bleach, but I'm not convinced any of the Espada were VLs. As for why they haven't revealed themselves yet, it's possible they just aren't interested in the affairs of Shinigami. Maybe they weren't keen on submitting to Aizen, or anyone else for that matter. And Hueco Mundo is a big place, maybe they simply haven't taken notice of what's been going on? Or, maybe Vasto Lordes go into extended periods of hibernation, only waking up to hunt, and they're just slumbering somewhere under the desert?
I am hoping you guys are correct. It was hinted at the Espada being up there with VL and at the same time that they were not. It might be a part of the story saved or (I hope not) forgotten.
This last arc will be the final so I am hoping we get them into the picture and finally get to see what the secretive silhouette was all about.
Also, Ichigo in Hueco Mondo, he looked like a VL didn't he? Is that possibly where he plan to set the bar?
I don't fully buy the Zero Squad way of the VL though, as them being lumped up. It seems like before Aizen the HM was mainly a place where the strongest beat and ate the less strong. I don't know ofc but I don't see the VL being different, they would have the hunger still, and that makes for a poor breeding ground for a collective working together. Them living like iermits only interested in them self and not the bigger picture though could be correct and since the Quincy seem to be out to change the reality of the world this might, just might bring the VL's out on the battle field.
Regarding the final part of the last Manga, I believe the phoenix will rise from the ashes
Uhmm, Barragan was the King of HM, doesn't that implies that he is a VL??
Baraggan was the self proclaimed King of Hueco Mundo. There was at least one Hollow out there (Starrk) who was stronger and yet wasn't interested in taking the title, assuming he even heard of Baraggan's 'reign'. It's not like Hueco Mundo actually has any sort of established government. What Baraggan had was a gigantic pack, really.
As a sidenote, what we saw in Baraggan's flashback wasn't his masked form, he was already an Arrancar.
Last edited by NoOneInParticular; October 16, 2012 at 08:26 AM.
there were a past story between Halibel and Barragan, when both were not arrancars. Baragan told Halibel the she was too troublesome and should leave his territory as I recall correctly. This suggest that when both were hollows, their powers were close to each other so they avoided fighting. The same can be said for Starrk, he is not necessarily stronger than the other two (pre-arrancar), they just don't want to mess with each others.
Last edited by River_Capulet; October 16, 2012 at 08:35 AM.
Oh, that's true. Still, Starrk spent ages trying to find other Hollows to live alongside. It seems to me that if he'd even known there was a gathering of superpowered Arrancar dwelling in HM he'd have gone there of his own accord, but Aizen had to come out and find him. So it looks like word doesn't necessarily travel very well amongst Hollows, meaning it's possible that any VL who might have taken exception to Baraggan's self-given title might not even have known HM had a 'King'.
The only things we know about VL are that they're human size and has superior intellect. So far, the top 4 espada (not Yammy) fit into that category. However, it seems that only second form Ulquiorra kind of live up to what Hitsugaya said. Although the others get pretty bad matchups, Barragan could have been really trouble some if Hachi wasn't around, and Halibel got cheap shotted by Aizen while Stark met someone that's too strong and cunning to handle.
The top tier Espada were certainly powerful, but this is after being given augmented Arrancar powers with the Hogyoku, and going resurreccion. They were undeniably reaching above captains in terms of strength, which would make them Vasto Lorde level. But VLs are supposed to be packing that kind of strength without having undergone Hogyoku enhancement.
Eh, at the end of the day, all I can say is I'll wait and see. VLs may show up in future, or the whole VL plotline may have been concluded already. If it's the latter, fair enough, though I will say that it could have been handled better, by actually letting us know for a fact that we were watching VLs the whole time...
I posted here earlier.
Starrk meeting Aizen without a mask.
Barragan had his skull before meeting Aizen, but it could've been his mask and the "You will regret giving me power" can't be ignored.
Seemingly 3 of the top 4 were natural arrancars. Ulquiorra is almost certainly a VL, not only do I recall seeing it confirmed somewhere but he was also the VL silhouette when Icefail-kun told Ichigo about them. Likely the 3 above him were, as well.
Vasto Lordes again, really?
As far as starrk and barragan I think the manga makes it pretty clear that both of them were arrancar before meeting aizen. Starrk probably became an arrancar when he separated from lilinet. Barragan would be a murkier situation though, no clue of what could have happened here.
As far as the strength the VL supposedly have we simply have no information on the matter so far. For all we know the VLs have varying degrees of strength so making them into arrancar won't necessarily make them as OP as we would have been initially led to believe. As far as the information which we have been given regarding the espada being VL kubo mentions vaguely they were at the VL however is very unespecific on the matter of whether they were at some point actual VLs or simply as arrancar had as much power as one. Even the ulquiorra chapter gets murky when we consider ulquiorra implied he chose to keep his HSR in exchange for power meaning that he would have powered up less from his standard shinigamification than other arracar.