Unproven, I'll give you that. But be serious: we saw Minato hit a man with a Rasengan... a man without regenerative capabilities or superhuman durability, and you know what he did? The one thing he shouldn't have: not die. He screamed in pain... got up, and then hopped to a tree. The manga pretty much shows us that Minato's Rasengan (and this was him trying to end the fight as quickly as possible, so don't try the "holding back" stuff) doesn't get the job done against normal people. So how can you expect it to get the job done against a Perfect Sage?Originally Posted by sevenheadedmirror
Infact, me mentioning the regeneration so much is actually me being EXTREMELY generous. With the Sage durability ontop of the ability to use Kimimaro's kekkei genkai, he can fully tank attacks if necessary.
Well for clarification, Kabuto fought Itachi and Sasuke at the same time. One of them is Itachi level... cuz he's Itachi. The other is more deadly than Jiraiya, thus close to Itachi level. Maybe not Minato level, but he was armed with abilities more likely to give him a victory against Kabuto than Jiraiya has. Likewise... friggin WHAT in Jiraiya's repertoire gives him a level close to Itachi? It's not the abilities that make them equals (or else Itachi'd be fully superior without question), but rather the hype and how the manga has been set up.Quote:
Yup. I give her alot of shit, but just because she's not the same type of ninja as them both doesn't mean she's not kage level. She's easily the physically most powerful ninja in the manga sans bijuu or a kekkei genkai, almost immortal based on her own power... she's a beast. Give her some range aswell as Genjutsu and she'd be right up there with the rest of them.Quote:
Like ninjabot already said, the simple A>B so A>C logic doesn't apply to the Narutoverse... at least if your name isn't Madara or Hashirama or you are a Blonde Hokage Bombshell.
But Obito has regenerative abilities it's just that Minato smite past them http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/601/13
Anyway, Jiraya AND Kabuto would be somewhat a close battle, perhaps with Kabuto on the wining side but seriously; Minato into the mix?.
Also OFFTOPIC: I never got Hashirama's hype. Hiruzen beat the 1st ass when as an old bastard that had problems breathing after using two shadow clones and he did it in a team up fight vs the 1st ALONG WITH his brother, two against one.
Last edited by Sevenheadedmirror; October 30, 2012 at 06:31 PM.
Originally Posted by sevenheadedmirror
Huh. Completely forgot about that. Even though it did take an entire chapter for that injury to disappear... which wasn't a direct blow anyway (he was grazed by the explosion from a Rasengan, not smashed the way Minato hit Obito when they fought. Now just imagine Obito had Sage Mode active at that point, and would you expect him to even have that neglegable scratch on his arm? Hopefully not. Then? Give him Kimimaro's defensive abilities from his bones... and Suigetsu's liquifaction.
EDIT: also Obito survived a boulder in half of his body and head, when he was a child, that's some mean survival prowess.
Last edited by Sevenheadedmirror; October 30, 2012 at 06:47 PM.
Blame Orochimaru for that... or did you see Hashirama back then pulling any of those Mokuton Techniques Madara is showing us now? For example where was the Wood Dragon? The Pollen Jutsu? Or any of that stuff Obito has shown during his recent flashback?Quote:
That Hashirama-Zombie was barely more then something like one of Kankuro's puppets.
Last edited by LnDRash; October 30, 2012 at 06:54 PM.
Not once did I claim that only genjutsu could defeat Kabuto. Don't make stuff up.
Instead of playing just on hype, perhaps actually explaining how they could even hurt Kabuto would be better.
Look at there completely it also turn to liquid.
Minato was able to put a mark on Tobi with 1 rasengan.
Minato was able to put a mark on Hachibi instantly.
You know Minato always carry a kunai to him and Kabuto is a type of person who charge towards the target in his Sage Mode form..
It would be similar to this.
See the Kunai his Holding? He let it go and Teleported back to it.
In this 1 attack he still manage to put a Seal.
See how fast Minato can put up a seal
Yeah it happen like that. Kabuto body isn't the same as Suigetsu. He need to activate them as a jutsu.
Minato put the mark on Kabuto Tounge. So everytime he give Oral rebirth through his mouth. The mark wont disappear from him :P
Still Kabuto cant dodge a Sage Ultimate Rasengan of Jiraiya. his in Sage mode. Sage mode can react faster and detect opponent movement easily. Specially Jiraiya Barrier mode.. If u go back to that fight, that Barrier he put up was so big -.- It even dwarf the size of the Summon animals. Not even 9 dogs manage to hit the frog with that barrier cuz it capable of detecting any movement.
Minato does all the stomping you know why?. He is a god-mod. There isn't a character in the manga besides Madara and Hashirama that pose a threat to him and you know why?. He can teleport. Watch all of the moments Minato intervened. Not one time was a hit landed on him, not once (you know except for that moment when he tried to protect his wife and child). Raikage, fastest character in the manga, didn't even grazed him and this is when he was teaming up with Bee another of the most powerful guys in the manga, who make up an ideal team. Fact is for all we know unless Minato is protecting his child he can't be hit, also if he could be hit by a huge attack, he can teleport it away (the same way he did with Kurama's energy ball). Can form seals in a second, turn your summons away from you or grope you and have his next attack pre-hit you, as in he can teleport with that attack already landed. This means that for all we have seen in the manga Minato has about 100% chance to avoid an attack and after he gropes you 100% to land one. He can destroy Kabuto all by himself. The fact that people forgot how much of a badass he is is because his story was revealed. People now think that Hashirama was the badassest ninja in the world because he could use wood, suppress specifically jiubi chakra and heal his wounds without hand seals, which is awesome but why do you even need healing when you can't be touched. As soon as his story is revealed, if it is, his levels of awesome will drop, perhaps just a little but they will drop, it is the mystery that gives a sweet baddassity bonus.
Now Jiraya is equal to Itachi, that's it, the author has wanted for us to think about it the moment Itachi appeared, they also are compared in all the forums and save for a fanboy on either side people just give them equal ranking. The author does as well. He doesn't have Itachi's OHK attacks but he has attacks that will kill you instantly, as Odama Rasengan, his hair techniques and pretty much EVERY move he does when he is in sannin. For god's sake he fought against three bodies of pain and won, then he fought against six without an arm and not only lasted long but captured a body. Meanwhile Itachi fought the famelic, paralized body of Nagato and needed the help of Naruto and Bee. On the other hand, Itachi pounded Oro's ass easily. So they are tied. The author says so.
BUT for the sake of argument lets say Minato doesn't have, pfff, Sasuke's level when he fought Kabuto. Let's say he is a wimp. Let's say Jiraya is as well. Then lets, like all of your arguments, ignore that each have actually tools to bring down a powerful opponent and that Itachi has just the right tools to bring everybody down while Jiraya's level is calculated on how much naked girls he peeps at. This is a battle that has at least the destiny of Konoha in his hands, (I mean Kabuto is a serious threat to every ninja in the manga save Madara), so, doesn't Minato have this ultimate card that seals anybody away with the power of death?.
Which would make me proceed to ask. Doesn't a team of Minato and Iruka is able to defeat any opponent in a 2 on 1 battle just because Minato could very well use that jutsu and leave his companion alive, being hence the winners of any fight?. Theoretically you could even get past Madara and make them fight rikudo, that seal would kill him. Once again exaggerating to make a point.
Last edited by Sevenheadedmirror; October 31, 2012 at 10:33 AM.
Not that it matters, because hitting Minato is not an impossible task. Tobi and Ee both have touched Minato, and Kirabi was shown capable of doing so too. Now considering Kabuto has been shown able to react to an instant attack thanks to his Sage sensory, he wouldn't be that put out by Minato's blitz. And even if Minato does manage to land a hit, he doesn't have anything to actually do any major damage to Kabuto. Kabuto can tank a Rasengan with his enhanced body and brush it off. So all Minato would be doing is wasting chakra. Minato can't teleprt Kabuto's attacks away, because not only would that require him to stand still, opening him to attack, but it would only work on attacks coming straight towards him. An AOE attack like Kimimaro's bone forest or Tayuya's genjutsu would be impossible to defend against, even if he teleported to another spot.
Hashirama's considered a badass because he has a great balance of offense and defense.
Also I'll point out that he won against the Paths because of Ma and Pa. And Itachi fought against an upgraded Nagato, who Naruto confirmed was much stronger then the Paths, and did it basically alone. And as mentioned, Orochimaru was shown stronger then Jiraiya, beating him when he left the village and then later taking on both him and Tsunade at once.
As for the Shinigami technique, Kabuto has both body switching and liquification to escape before Minato could pull his soul out. And he likely would be able to sense said attack thanks to natural energy.
I am tired to argue over the same stuff and have you guys like each other posts randomly, I'm clearly one against three in this discussion and you are reaping likes and thanks. Be a little reasonable with me here.
Nothing you have said is backed up by the manga. Obito made a huge deal about invading konoha, not giving his all is moronic, he used Kamui, his strongest most powerful technique to try to take Minato (in one hit) but failed. Kabuto is clearly weaker than Obito (cue to you saying he isn't) and Minato took care of him, placing the J-man on top is just retarded.
Then you say that Itachi has grown from the last fight he had with Nagato to the one he had with Kabuto which is literally seconds away in a chronological order. What the hell backs up that logic besides you saying it is? It doesn't even make sense.
Kabuto said he had ultra defences but his horn was destroyed effortlessly, he does not have 2nd Raikage defence but above Orochimaru's regeneration (oral revival EATS chakra) you are clearly hyping him up, this discussion has gotten to the point people say that the Rasengan (a human's B-bomb and, naturally, a S-ranked technique that has taken half of the villains in the manga in a normal form, which is smaller than what Minato and Jiraya can do) isn't that powerful! .
Last edited by Sevenheadedmirror; October 31, 2012 at 01:13 PM.
^ While I'm on the "Kabuto wins" ship, I understand how frustrating arguing in favour of anything that relates to Jiraiya, Minato and Naruto can be in this forum, being in your shoes more than once
And while its true that Yondaime doesn't have a sure way to end Kabuto, it doesn't mean Kabuto can compete with him in speed
No, Itachi relied heavily on the fact that Nagato was fighting Bee and Naruto at the same time.Quote:
In a 1 on 1, Nagato would've won with Chibaku Tensei.
Lastly Oro didn't took both of them at the same time, all the while it was a drugged Jiraiya versus him, and Tsunade versus Kabuto.
The moment the two of them ganged up on Oro, Oro had to flee
This is also false, since Orochimaru couldn't use Oral Rebirth nor any other jutsu ( probably Oral Rebirth wasn't even thought up to that point, but still ), he could just remotely guide hisQuote:
Also Yondaime could take half of Kyuubi's chakra in a jiffy, and we know half of Kyuubi's chakra = 100x Kakashi's chakra, by his own admission, meaning Kabuto would not have the time to do a thing.
Nor can he sense something that can be felt only by the user, as showed by Orochimaru not seeing nor feeling the Shinigami until it hit him.
But isn't Shiki Fuuin banned in this fight?
I was about to reply to you pretty much the same things as Rikudou King did, so by being first he saved me up a ton of typing work... thats why I have given him my thanks, nothing more, nothing less, I don't see whats wrong about that.
And no, you are not alone... you have marshall313 and Lemonadez
You can always come over though... You'll be welcomed!
He does not only have Oral Rebirth... he has:Quote:
All of those techniques allow him to recover from most damage or avoid it completely. And lets not forget he already survived and recovered from a Rasengan to his gut during part one... when he had only Yin Healing Wound Destruction.Quote:
Thanks to Orochimaru's powers he can probably even pull of a stunt like this:
So I realy don't see how a Kunai stab or a Rasengan could possibly take him out... you need to burn his whole body to ashes in an instant, otherwise he'll just keep comming back indefinitely, since Sage Mode even constantly replenishes the users chakra instead of draining it.
Madara taught him everything he currently knows. And took care of him? Minato landed one hit that did a little damage. He didn't kill Obito or even really defeat him. Landing a hit on Kabuto isn't gonna win the battle.
He can transform into a bunch of snakes, Suigetsu's liquification ability which negates physical assaults, Karin's regeneration which grants him instant healing, and Kimimaro's bones which grant him powerful durability. On top of all that, he has the physical enhancement granted by Sage Mode, which we know turns a person into a tanking machine. There's no hyping at all, but actual facts shown in the series itself.
And perhaps I should remind you that Kabuto already took a Rasengan and survived, and that was only with his normal human body and some chakra protection. The Rasengan isn't a threat to him at this point.
Kabuto was shown fast enough to avoid Susaoo's arrows, which were noted as being insanely fast. Outside of Hiraishin, Minato wasn't shown all that fast. If Tobi could keep up with him, Kabuto should be able too and shouldn't have much of a problem with with Minato just suddenly appearing due to his sensory ability, especially if he figures out Hiraishin's flaw like Ee did.
But Kabuto isn't just water. Hell, he can use Oral Rebirth to avoid damage. I keep saying Oral Rebirth, but it's fucking powerful, and spammed a lot by Orochimaru. Combine that with his chakra scalpel and knowledge of human anatomy and Kabuto can deal serious damage to Minato and Jiraiya from just a little touch.Quote:
Minato at best is defense support. He has no way to hurt Kabuto, considering Naruto's rasengan didn't kill Kabuto or keep him down long enough. Sage Mode Kabuto can not only tank that, but he can heal from it or escape the damage with Oral Rebirth. Hell, nothing is stopping him from using Tayuya's sound genjutsu to affect everyone in range.
It's not irrelevant. Suiton has a great advantage over kaaton, and Kabuto can unleash enough suiton to weaken the Goemon into something easily tanked.Quote:
Jiraiya may be on par with Itachi, but it doesn't mean they'd tie. Based on what we've seen, Jiraiya would lose to Itachi. We don't need to use what he said, we can use what both showed.