1.) Second Mizukage do not posses like Suigetsu. He never showed anything like that
Only Suigetsu himself show the Logia ability of water. Look at Suigetsu older brother Hozuki? Now tell us there how is it that Hozuki didnt have the same thing as Suigetsu body.
2.) Please show us a proof that you need to remain stationary facing the technique? Fact it was shown on Manga Temari just use wind while Tayuya was playing. IT only took 1 Swing of her fan to blow away the Sound coming from the flute and disrupt it. and then you need to play from the start again. You cant play it continuously it wont work like that. Read the part where Tayuya vs Shikamaru. Look there carefully even Tayuya stated it here that u need to learn how to play the flute note in order to activate it..
3.) Goemon is Sage Oil + Sage Fire + Sage Wind. we all know this that Sage chakra are far superior than Normal jutsu. 3 Sage chakra against 1?
4.) Kabuto isn't the same as Suigetsu. He stated it here. He use his own body to Perform the technique.
Suigetsu never use anything it automatically turn him into liquid everytime he get hit INSTANTLY. unlike Kabuto, he had to use the technique.
If like u said he can turn into liquid automatically. Why did Kabuto stop against Amaterasu?.
Here he was Grab by Susanoo. If he can actually Turn into "AUTOMATIC" like you claim. Kabuto would have been turn into liquid INSTANTLY like Suigetsu.
By the way. Since Chakra = Jutsu.. Any Sage Jutsu of Kabuto vs Pa Stick... 1 swing from Pa Stick take away all Nature chakra. So pretty much all Kabuto sage jutsu is useless if Pa Stick Exist. He can just swing that infront of his jutsu and his jutsu will be cancelled/negated.
Last edited by Lemonadez; January 21, 2013 at 01:58 AM.
The only thing different about Kabuto's jutsu is that its even better then Suigetsu's. He improved on it.
While Suigetsu simply turns his whole body into water, Kabuto only turns his innards into liquid and leaves his skin (actually even stuff like clothing and glasses) behind as an empty shell which serves as a decoy.
So the stick is Samehada now? That stick is a nuisance at best. All it takes is one chop with Kabuto's chakra scalpel palm and that thing will shatter into bits, removing it from the fight.Quote:
I find Suigetsu water mode better. Kabuto CAN be cut as he needs to activate his Suiton mode before getting hit. Suigetsu would have never lost his "horn" if he had one and he would get hit. In essence hit Kabuto fast enough or trick him and hit him somehow and his water mode would not save him.
How do you know the horns aren't treated the same way as his skin, hair, glasses, pants, fingernails and everything else he leaves behind?
I've never seen him or Suigetsu use any hand signs to activate that technique, so how can you say they are different? Whenever I've seen Suigetsu getting hit it was always from the front when he saw the attack coming and he had some time to react.
^This is the most "sudden & surprising" instance I can remember, and even then it came from the front. We have no idea whatsoever if that ability is constantly active and protects Suigetsu against attacks even while he's sleeping or whatever.
Amaterasu is the hottest flames in the series, able to burn even chakra, why wouldn't he avoid them? He would be doomed no matter what state he was in.
And the link you used really doesn't work for your argument, since it was a trap set by Kabuto to get close to Itachi and Sasuke. Thus he had reason to suppress the ability.
Also yes he does not need handseals. But he still need to activate his jutsu. Suigetsu is water mode that can shape itself like a human, well more or less... Kabuto needs to use his fluids to activate that jutsu and become puddle mode. Its an adaptation of Suigetsu's ability, its not the same ability. This was achived after reaserching and ALTERING that jutsu.
In essence he created one that applies to him. He does not have Suigetsu's Keke.
Last edited by xXan; January 21, 2013 at 03:45 AM.
Suigetsu could have simply felt Raikages force starting to tear his muscles an then he simply switched into water mode in the last moment. In Juugo's case, even though it was out of a sudden, the attack came from the front and Juugo even anounced himself with a DIEEEEEE!!!. There really isn't a single 100% prove that Suigetsu is in water mode 100% of the time.
As for the horn, look here:
His Orochimaru snake gets captured, water comes out from his eye-socket (because he liquefied and left his empty shell behind) and then he jumps out from Orochimaru's mouth.
Notice something? He left behind the horns, which means those are part of his outer-shell which doesn't get liquefied. Just like his skin, hair, glasses etc.
Itachi cutting that horn does not prove Kabuto can't go splash if he deems it necessary.
You know what the problem is? The horn once cut it stays cut... That means its permanent damage. When he left behind his clone with his "water trick" he poped on the other side WITH HIS HORN, glasses and all. That was a SPECIAL TRICK. Even if he left behind those features he still had them... if one would have cut the water clone (let's call it that) his real horn would get NO damage... When Itachi cut his horn on the other hand it was left like that. The example you used is not relevant considering what was left behind was NOT the real him. He already whent WATER MODE HORNS AND ALL(glasses to lol), he just left something like a kawrarimi behind.
So yes Kabuto losing a horn means he is NOT water mode constantly, he needs to activate said ability. For Suigetsu you have nothing to prove this si needed.
Suigetsu by everything we have, even when unconscious and he is STILL water mode. Going by EVERYTHING in the manga and its implied he is water mode constantly... On the other hand there is not even 1 piece of hint or whatever else that he is NOT. Hell not even Raiton can cancel his water mode, just put him out of service.
Last edited by xXan; January 21, 2013 at 05:59 AM.
If he is constantly in water mode then how is he holding his sword? He obviously has to decide when he wants to be solid and when he wants to be liquid. Maybe he just trained himself so that the ability becomes more of an automatic reflex, but that still doesn't answer the question what would happen if I stab him from behind without him seing the attack coming at all, because that never happened. In other words the specifics about how exactly his ability works are unknown.
In Kabuto's case its also completely unknown. Kabuto has his sage senses to avoid attacks, something Suigetsu doesn't have, so its only natural they fight a little differently, with Suigetsu relying more on the liquefaction then Kabuto.
The only thing you have is the horn. But like I already said, his technique is a bit different. He leaves behind a husk which serves as a decoy. Why didn't the horn go splash when Itachi hit it? Probably because he does not liquefy anything on the outside of his body. He liquefies only his innards and then recreates himself from that.
As for why the horn didn't regenerate when he reformed himself? Same reason why it didn't regenerate after he used oral-rebirth: Kishi didn't care!
He got knocked out while he was in liquid mode and absorbed a whole lake. If he became unconscious before he could cancel the technique it would make perfect sense to leave him in a weird state. Thats like knocking out Sakon or Ukon while they are inside someone else body.Quote:
Last edited by LnDRash; January 21, 2013 at 06:21 AM.
How is a water clone solid? How can a water clone hold something? Its water after all... How can a water shark BYTE(and i mean water that looks like a shark and not the sharks)... Etc, etc... Its a manga. Water can hold a sword and swing. Suigetsu has the ability to look like a human but its water.
Hell i can do it better. He was holding his arms up AND the sword after his arms WHERE WATER and then reformed his hands and he DID NOT drop his sword... He could hold it up when his hands where not human hands, they where made out of water.
Now can he sense when he is KO'ed? Nop... Thing is even when KO'ed he was puddle mode. You are always going to find an excuse even if i would find you a panel where someone hits him from behind... Like Kakashi feeling killing intent or whatever.
Hell you found an excuse for Suigetsu going puddle mode faster then Raikage could finish his swing AFTER impact his blade man... Yes i am sure Kabuto's brain is so fast to detect the stg of Raikage's swing and then dictate to activate water mode and then actualy activate water mode in that split second before the swing was finished... This is all AFTER the impact... If only Kabuto could activate his ability 50%(Raikage speed>Itachi's) of Suigetsu's speed after he felt the Katana on his horn he would have not lost it... PS. I am aware Suigetsu had the time to think "what power" or whatever.
How about this. You find me 1 example when he was hit and he did NOT whent puddle mode.. I can find you a TON of examples when he did... It could be something like he is solid but any type of damage done to him would transform said part of his body into water... Thing is you can't exacly injure him compared to Kabuto.
Hell even here:
Juugo did scream but Kabuto had his eyes closed and having his little speech... Heh Madara even felt and blocked a Jinton fired from his blind spot... Whatever i present i am sure you are going to find a way around it... Think is nobody has ANY scans of Suigetsu taking ANY damage and not going puddle mode but WE CAN find that for Kabuto.
This is defenetly wrong when we know that he did just this when he hit Itachi. His entire body was turned into water and moved trough Orochimaru. That husk or whatever was left behind was NOT him... Not even the GLASSES. That or he has the ability to recreated his "shell" after he removed it... Think is he aparently can't do that to the horn that was lost so its copletly out of the question. If he can regenerate his face, bones, eye and whatever else he left behind then a horn would be no problem.Quote:
Considering he can't regenerate damage already done to him then it stands to reason what he used there was a kawarimi type of jutsu.
This is not a valid explanation. Perhaps he could not, simple as that. Perhaps the time gap was to long... Who knows. Thing is excuses like this don't suport your point when we have a valid panel when it did not happen.Quote:
Suigetsu showed he has no need to have a councious response to hold that form...Quote:
Bottom line is:
a) Its not the same jutsu.
b) Kabuto does NOT have the same feats as Suigetsu AND its not the same jutsu so one can't apply the same feats.
c) Suigetsu in all the instances he was cut he regenerated BACK, Kabuto did not.
In the end whatever you bring to the table is going to be asumtion. Fact is Kabuto can be cut, Suigetsu can be cut like salami and he is just fine.
Last edited by xXan; January 21, 2013 at 07:51 AM.
If what he leaves behind isn't his skin then why is it called "shedding" technique? Its completely based on the theme of a snake shedding its own skin, so what he leaves behind isn't a clone or something, its the empty outer husk of his body. Thats why fluid was comming out from his eye-socket and thats also the reason why that thing did a faceplant mere moments later. A Kawarimi doesn't behave like that.
Here he's even using the technique in a completely different way, liquefying and reforming just part of his body.
And here he's liquefying to absorb the sound vibrations, while his "hull" i.e horns, hair, skin remain solid without pouring even a single drop of water.
I don't see how this are supposed to be excuses. The horn didn't go splash because he either didn't deem it necessary to liquefy or because he simply can't do that to the horn, because like I said, it belongs to the same group of body mass which doesn't liquefy and gets left behind.Quote:
And lastly the horn simply didn't grow back because either Kabuto or Kishi didn't bother. I mean, why would he even bother regrowing it if those things don't even serve a purpose? They are a temporary transformation which disappears anyway once he leaves sage-mode.
If he can do stuff like this:
And Orochimaru can do stuff like this:
With the same technique, then it makes no sense at all that he wouldn't be able to regrow that horn. But this is completely irrelevant anyway because the horn regrowing or not has nothing to do with the liquefaction.
I gave you one of numerous possible reason and explanations for why the horn was cut: namely that Kabuto combined the liquefaction technique with his own body shedding jutsu to improve the techniques use for deceptions (as seen when he uses it to create an opening against Itachi).
That argument doesn't hold water because Suigetsu was never cut to begin with and Kabuto never got hit into part of his body which we know can be liquefied for sure.Quote:
All you have are two unknowns. You have no idea if Suigetsu needs to activate the ability consciously or not because he never got into a situation which would prove the process being completely automatic. In Kabutos case you have only the horn and I already explained to you why that isn't any kind of unquestionable prove either. At best its an indication with many possible explanations.
Last edited by LnDRash; January 21, 2013 at 09:01 AM.
http://ultraimg.com/images/YfIyv.jpg <- He was cut here and he didnt even activate anything + It would be impossible to even make a jutsu out of it. Because of the lightning. With that Lightning sword stab between his stomach.
http://ultraimg.com/images/pDcPf.jpg <- There look carefully at the lower panel. The Lightning Sword is through Suigetsu body. You see the CLothes of Suigetsu should also not regenerate right? It should be cut because u claim that the Horn is not Part of Kabuto.
So anything that is not part of Suigetsu should not regenerate.
http://ultraimg.com/images/6E8sI.jpg <- I know Suigetsu weakness is Lightning. That why he could not turn into liquid instantly.
But here what happen after the Lightning Sword was removed from his body.
http://ultraimg.com/images/dXQq6.jpg <- His completely liquid here
The Interesting Part
http://ultraimg.com/images/am7e.jpg <- there the clothes of Suigetsu that is not Part of him and it was also cut by the Lightning sword in half between his body when he was cut. That Clothes should not be there too. It would be similar to the Horn.
The picture above when Suigetsu turn into liquid he should be naked then or the top of his clothes should not be there as he completely turn into liquid.
Last edited by Lemonadez; January 21, 2013 at 11:15 AM.
Don't care why is is called that.... How do you explain the glasses? THE COSTUME? Weapons and other crep. Its not just his skin. He is creating that crep with chakra... Or he is creating that crep with chakra on the side he comes out BUT if that would be so and he can recreated any part of his body on the other side he would not be missing his horn.Quote:
Also its just something that looks like it BUT he can turn his entire body into water:
Look at the snake. Its "melting". its not just its insides. All the snakes that Susano was holding started to turn into water and drip down.
What is this suposed to prove? That he can't turn his outer body into water? If that is it then i don't see it.Quote:
He did not even know he would be hit in his horn... Also there is no body mass that he is leaving behind because he can't make it go puddle mode. He was completly puddle mode and whent trough the snake. Glasses and all... That or he can recreate his outer self after he is going puddle mode but then you are going to have to explain to me why he can't recreated his horn... Also why did he bother recreating the other horn that was intact if he really does not give a crep about his horns.Quote:
The way i see it once something its cut before he can activate his puddle mode the damage is there and can't be reversed by going puddle mode. He can't turn into water the mass that was lost. Of course he can heal it back OR spit himself out but to do that for a horn would be stupid. Point is if something is cut before he can turn it into water then the damage is permanent and going puddle mode after said event is not going to recreate it.
Then why did he recreated his horns everytime he whent puddle mode? That is asuming what you say its true and any time he goes puddle mode he needs to reform his outer shell...Quote:
Anyway it would make no sense to go puddle mode in your version or mine and recreate 1 horn each time but NEVER bother to recreate the other.
Yeah point is he showed to be able to be cut. If he can use Orochimaru's "spit myself out" tech to reform himself is not really relevant to the fact that you CAN cut him.Quote:
Sure he was. Suigetsu got sliced almost in half with his OWN blade. He could not even water mode properly because of the Raiton. He was "stuck"there.Quote:
Then he was also claved in half by Juugo.
If he can leave behind his outer self (as you keep stating) and recreate it on the other side then that means he can turn that thing from water to real flesh and so the other way around. Also snakes coming out of him turned into puddle mode with the exterior included.
So the outside CAN be turned into water just as well... Why did he chosed to keep his outside intact those 2 times? Because the first time he needed to run there and capture Sasuke... The second time to trick them and make them belive he is still there. Thing is he already showed even the snakes going puddle mode completly, even in your own links.
In the end thsi are battle forums and as i stated before if you don't have feats to show that his version of water mode is as good as the one coming from Suigetsu then it is not. Heh he even states that he had to turn his insides into water mode to be able to take that "flashbang" so its not a constant ability. Its something that he activates and if you hit him before its activated then you really hurt him, you just need to be fast enough. After that he needs his "spit myself out" no jutsu to heal himself or his special ability/Karin's or a combo of the 2... Thing is if someone impales his brain he is dead... He is not going to pop into water mode automaticly if he does not have the time to turn his insides into water.
Snakes that are bigger because of SM go puddle mode. Kabuto leaving behind whatever that thing was and poping on the other side(to hit Itachi) after transforming himself into water still had even the GLASSES on... So em even those somehow whent water mode. So em the other horn is recreated and even the glasses but the one cut does not? This guy pops snakes out of his arse and turns them just as puddle mode as himself but he can't do that to the horn? Not going to buy it.Quote:
Now you can argue that perhaps he did not care to recreate the horn but why did he bother recreating the other one when he whent puddle mode trough that Orochimaru snake? He even recreated the damaged one (well half of it)...
The only explanation i can see is that he can't repair something trough water mode if the damaged happened before he had the time to go puddle mode, something like Izanagi.
The horn was cut and lost.
Well of coruse he could use that "spit myself out" jutsu from Orochimaru to spit himself out completly but it was no need to use that for a missing horn. Thing is aparently damage done to him before he can turn into puddle are left like that.
Also his regen ability is irrelevant here. He would not waste chakra to regrow a bloody horn. Point was that Suigetsu can go puddle mode no matter what when hit and Kabuto does not. Suigetsu is almost water made into a human shape. You hit and damage him you get water. You hit Kabuto and if he did not activated his water ability before you get the strike in then you get to slice him like salami. This is also important as an attack aimed for the brain can put him down before he could react... Like Minato poping in his blind spot (well because of SM he does not have blind spots but still)and 1 shooting his brain. Kabuto is NOT Suigetsu and HE DOES NOT have the same feats as Suigetsu with his water mode and HE DOES NOT have the same water mode as Suigetsu, he researched that and created his own version. No indication he is as water man as Suigetsu. In the least nobody can provide feats of it so no dice in the battle forums.
Last edited by xXan; January 23, 2013 at 08:35 AM.
But the snakes were apart of his body before Sage Mode, whereas the horn was created because of Sage Mode. That was my point, that perhaps because it was made out of Sage Mode, it doesn't go by the same rules as the rest of Kabuto's body.
And his regeneration is quite important, since it's presumably automatic. And as mentioned before, aside from the horn, we didn't get to see how Kabuto's body handles damage because he never was really hit. The closest it came to was Sasuke throwing his sword and hitting that one snake that quickly healed. Kabuto said he advanced Suigetsu's technique, it would make no sense for him to employ a weaker version. Just because he wasn't exactly like Suigetsu doesn't mean he lacks those skills. The Mizukage didn't preform any of the same feats as Suigetsu either. He got touched quite a bit without instantly turning to water. But he still had the same advantages. Same is likely the case for Kabuto.