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Also note that he didn't even want to kill Yamato, he wanted to keep him alive, so even if Hashirama is more powerful, just give him 10 times the dosage and he will feel the effects for sure... if you ask me I'd even say it would kill him, since a tranquilizer normally isn't lethal too, but if you get pumped full of it you'll die because your heart stops.
Dude... stop poking that stick into the hornet's nest!! Its freakin dangerous, they'll swarm you!Originally Posted by Ninjabot
---------- Post added at 07:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 AM ----------
The guy managed to hit a healthy Itachi twice, I know some of it was because of circumstances and shit, but given the guys speed and sharingan mastery, I'd say Kabuto can manage to get a hit on pretty much anyone.
Come on now. You know you can't just say "it didn't happen, so it can't happen". For all you know Hashirama just got caught, but managed to defend with Mokuton until he escaped. Or he didn't get caught with Genjutsu because even though Madara could see through his clones, he still had to kill them before he could get to Hashirama, meaning he was too exhausted to Genjutsu him by the time he fought through his army of regenerating clones and Mokuryu.Originally Posted by M3J
Or the most likely scenario: Madara was busy using Genjutsu to control Kurama, which meant he couldn't use Genjutsu on Hashirama.
And for those arguing that Kabuto's poison won't hurt Hashirama, I'm inclined to agree. However, it was never the poison I considered the threat. It was Genjutsu and Muki Tensei. Kabuto can beast through his Mokuton with Sage Mode Chakra Scalpel Chidoris too, and liquify before he can be crushed with roots. Also, he can outright turn the Mokuton against Hashirama with Muki Tensei if he were so inclined. Jutsu or not, it becomes natural wooden trees after he's converted his chakra. So the "Kabuto can't control the jutsu because it's Hashirama's chakra" shouldn't work after the jutsu has existed for a second or two.
And can kabuto escape from hashirama's pollen? Can he defeat the wood release jutsu of hashirama? It doesn't matter if kabuto has thousand of poisonous snakes, hashirama can create a damn forest, controlling the roots, branch and even the entire trees. The roots or wooden cage is enough to defeat kabuto's snakes.
And oh, hashirama can hide to one of his tree and slap kabuto with one of his roots/branch to death.
---------- Post added at 10:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------
And I forgot, does hashirama has an amazing healing power? So maybe he can cancel that poison with his amazing healing power skill.
And i even doubt kabuto can touch hashirama's ass.
Kabuto is nowhere in the same level of hashirama. Nor kabuto's power/jutsu can hurt hashirama.
Also, like I said, even if Hashirama is more powerful, just give him 10 times the dosage and the problem is solved.
By liquefaction, going underground or simply holding his breath... snakes can hold their breath for up to 45 minutes.Quote:
That means very little considering the fact the snakes can liquefy just like Kabuto, so neither Kabuto nor his snakes are getting crushed or captured by some roots or vines. Kabuto also has his own landscape chaging techniques like Muki Tensei or Sawarabi no Mai, which means he can either control the land to uproot all trees or he can impale them with Sawarabi no Mei, creating a whole network of bones to travel through.Quote:
Kabuto is a pretty damn acute sensor and his Chakra Scalpel wouldn't have any issues with chopping though a tree.Quote:
Not as "amazing" as Kabutos... and since the healing comes from his Kekkei Genkai (proven by Obito now possessing regeneration and Madara using Hashi's DNA to heal from his fatal wound) that ability would be suppressed just like his ability to create and control trees.Quote:
What a great way of arguing... the facts you provide to support that claim are so intimidating and convincing, I don't even know what to say... -.-Quote:
Hashirama was on the same level as mortal pre Rinnegan Madara, which may be strong, but I doubt regular mortal Madara was that far above Itachi & Sasuke. Better yes, but not a difference like heaven and earth.
How does healing have anything to do with poison? I think that's for wounds and external injuries, not for something like poison.
^No idea, but I've already seen people in the past arguing that Hashirama would simply regenerate from Kabutos poison. The argument was he would create new cells to replace the ones attacked by the poison. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me since the poison would still remain in his system, even if we asume it wouldn't surpress his healing, which once again doesn't make sense for me since that ability is also wood element related.
Even if the poison would still be in the system it would damage cells and Hashirama's ability to fix them would end up fixing them, probably faster then the poison has the ability to damage them, eventualy the poison would be gone. Of course it depends on the exact properties of said poison, if Hashirama can replace holes in his spine and holes in his chest (Tsunade) then damaged cells from some poison would be like bug bits, complety irrelevant.
Another problem here is if the healing he is able to do is tied to his Wood Element and we do have some good arguments for that... If its connected to his wood element it would also drop the moment he is poisoned.
The poison does not rewrites his DNA code so he can't use Wood Element anymore, he is just somehow "damaged" on a cellular level and unable to do it somehow.
Of course it could be a type of neurotoxin and it would make sense to be one, then it becomes more complicated (as it can inhibit communication between neurons across a synapse and you can't regenerated that...). Not that i am any type of expert on this.
Considering we know so little of what type of poison it is, how it effects his ability to use Mokuton and how Hashirama's regeneration works (if its conected to his Mokuton or not) this is a pointless discusion.
EDIT: I can see Naruto and Madara winning this. The others... Not so much. Well Kabuto depending on how that poison would effect Hashirama. If it works... Yeah.
EDIT 2: Now that i think about it Hashirama has no info on Sasuke, that means he could Amaterasu Hashirama before Hashirama can counter it. Also don't give me had had to fight Madara bla bla, we have no information Madara has Amaterasu (or had). Even Obito has the same chanse. To warp him before Hashirama can figure it out, even Minato would be gone now if he could not ST out of it. Its all about getting the "drop" on Hashirama.
Last edited by xXan; November 17, 2012 at 04:36 PM.
The thing is, the poison makes it so Hashirama can't use Mokuton, which is the only reason why he can heal the way he does. Yamato got stabbed by chidori sword but healed from it like nothing when Sasuke was distracted. The poison would work differently than wounds, methinks.
Ad btw, does kabuto has a ready poisonous snakes with a dosage of 1 up to 10x in his medical kit?
By liquefaction? He still needs to breath right?
Going underground? Hashirama possess the earth element right? He can run/walk/jump underground if he wants to.
Holding his breath? Can he fight hashirama while he do that? Hashirama can put him in a cage, hold/grab him with his roots/branch/tree. And does the manga stated that hashirama's mokuton who can absorb the bijuu's chakra isnt usable to human?
Controlling the land? Then hashirama win in that department. I'm pretty sure hashirama's chakra or earth jutsu is much more powerful than kabuto's sage mode or his earth jutsu.
Even if kabuto is a sensor, can he sense hashirama's chakra? If hashi is already done creating his forest, then it means kabuto is already in his territory. That entire forest/trees must have hashirama's chakra. So yeah, attacking kabuto one after the other in one hour straight is dangerous even for kabuto.
Err what? Kabuto's healing power is more awesome than hashirama?
What do you mean about that? Does it mean that karin's healing power has surpass hashirama's healing power?
Also Yamato was not showed as HEALED. He just pushed the sword out but the wound itself was never showed again and how it was healed. people just ASUMED it did. No evidence there.
What we have here is circumstantial evidence at best.
Also as i already said above, if the poison just damages cells then a man who can regrow and ENTIRE ORGAN (imagine the number of cells there) would have 0 problems replacing and repairing any celluar damage that the poison can do. Mostly that is what poison does, damages and kills cells (some do other things as i said before).
Also the bodies natural healing ability is aparently increased to, that would speed up the recovery from that poison.
The snake came from his body, so that toxin is inside his body as well. All he has to do is hit Hashirama with Many Hidden Shadow Snake Hands and thats it.Quote:
Considering a puddle of water doesn't have lungs, I'am inclined to say no.Quote:
First of all how is he gonna find Kabuto underground without sensing abilities, and secondly whats stoping Kabuto from using Muki Tensei or Sawarabi no Mai to squash or rip Hashirama apart while he's under the earth and can't see anything?Quote:
Since an Anaconda can hunt like that and Manda II was also shown traveling like a submarine, I doubt holding his breath for ~2 minutes would pose any problem, which is more then enough to escape the area or destroy the flowers. And how on earth you can believe some roots or a wooden cage would be any hindrance at all for someone who can turn into water is beyond me. Even if he couldn't liquefy for some reason he still has Sawarabi no Mai, which Kimimaro used to escape a few thousand tons of sand pressure.Quote:
He first needs to crab Kabuto for that, which is simply impossible. Even ignoring liquefaction or Sawarabi no Mai, he can simply use oral rebirth like when he was captured by that cement jutsu or the hand of Itachis Susanoo.Quote:
I have no doubt thats what you wish, but sadly its far from the truth. Muki Tensei was explicitly introduced as being on a whole nother level then the regular "infuse your chakra into xyz to control it". Kabuto literally makes inanimate objects like rocks or the earth come alive and fight for him, while Hashirama can only create trees.Quote:
Trees need soil, an uprooted tree lying on the ground is as useful to Hashirama as a beached whale. This is actually pretty fatal for Hashiramas techniques, since Kabuto can just command the earth to expel any trees and plants Hashirama creates, and there's nothing Hashirama can do against that.
He does not only sense chakra but has all snake senses at his disposal. He found Naruto hiding inside the turtle island by sending vibrations through the ground, so I don't see why he should have problems finding Hashirama who's at best a few meters away.Quote:
As a nomal human Kabuto could already create new cells to heal his wounds, much to Tsunades amazement. Thats already pretty much the same as what Hashirama does, only on a smaller scale. Then he injected Karins Uzumaki DNA to boost that ability, acquired sage mode which also grants restorative powers and most importantly he also has freakin Orochimaru's white snake powers... the avatar of rebirth and immortality.Quote:
So yes, unless you show me Hashirama cleanly being chopped in half at the waist and reattaching himself like it was nothing, or barfing out a completely new body, Kabutos healing is indeed superior.
I would consider Obito suddenly possessing regeneration and Madara using Hashi's tissue to heal from a mortal wound proof enough that the healing comes indeed from his kekkei genkai.Originally Posted by xXan
Last edited by LnDRash; November 18, 2012 at 08:05 PM.
Madara replaced the damaged parts of his body with plant-Hashirama goo. Its like transplating organs or limbs(real life). Tobi now has Hashirama DNA true but his body is not Hashirama flesh and bones, he is made out of Zetsu goo, plant stuff. Not the same thing. If Zetsu can regenerate as he is a PLANT it does not mean the human can to.
Not stating its not possible. Like let's say, if they can convert wood to flesh (wood clones) they can also convert it into real, own by the user flesh.
Again its is circumstantial evidence at best as i said before. We ca't say how its done, perhaps its like Tsunade or something similar. Madara never implied its tied to his wood element. Also if he was doing it like Obito... Then it would be really lame... the little damage done needed what? Chapters before it was healed?
Hashirama everybody except Madara...
Hashirama win vs all aside for Naruto and Madara... Madara would rip him appart and Naruto would just win. Yes i considering curent Naruto > EMS Madara. EMS Madara had a close fight with Hashirama.
Tobi has 0 IN COMBAT genjutsu feats... For one to belive he can incapacitate Hashirama that could fight MADARA himself that could put a genjutsu even on Raikage is... Absurd...
Last edited by xXan; February 14, 2013 at 03:23 AM.