Current Luffy from Manga vs Ace, who would win or is stronger? Ace 550m Luffy 400m.
Personally I think Luffy would win without much trouble. Ace was getting manhandled by Teaches hand to hand and I think Luffy's is far stronger than BB's h2h was at the time. I think Luffy would be fast enough to dodge everything Ace used on BB. I have other reasons I'll mention later. Please leave your thoughts.
mihawk would slice them both in 2v1
I think ace was never thaaaat strong to begin with, at least not as strong as his bounty suggests. His high bounty clearly served the purpose of showing how strong logias are, early in the manga (edit: and maybe because the gouvernment knew his relation to roger). But then again, we all know that bountys arent always a measurement of power levels.
Afaik, we havent been shown a single sign of haki from ace, he wasnt even able to defeat smoker who ( i suppose ) was a lot weaker back then, compared to now.
Additionally, aces strenght does not seem to be endurance, since he was in a pretty bad shape from direct BB hits, while luffy is at least equal to ace in terms of speed, with a much higher endurance/staminia. I´d say, one elephant gun and ace would be done for.
edit: Iam not saying that BBs h2h skills are bad...certainly not. And luffys real bounty cant be judged since his 400mio are 2 years old. He´s either much stronger and more worth than 400mio... or he is now powerful enough to deserve 400 mio, since his bounty was just pushed because of his actions, not his actual strenght. And since its the main protagonist we´re talking about, we will never know how strong he really is, until the end, when he´ll be the strongest.
Last edited by Pigov; September 09, 2013 at 08:26 AM.
I think Zoro probably got to the point in his training where he could make Mihawk go 80% at least. Zoro probably still has a while to go but I don't think he is miles off Mihawk. Maybe he is though. Just my thoughts.
I saw a lot of people who would state Ace was stronger than Luffy without really providing reasons in some chapter discussion threads as well.
My opinion about this is that in the OP world, Luffy's DF is really THE strongest.
-First, you have to be STRONG to use well this DF, because of the stretching. Without strenght, Luffy could never use his skills like Elephant Gun or Red Hawk.
-Secondly, thanks to the Gear 2, it gives you an unbelievable speed. I'd say that now, maybe only Borsalino & Ener could be faster than this.
-Third, it's ONE OF THE DF that fits the most with the power of HAKI.
All of the DF users can use Haki if they are able to. But the Gomu Gomu power oblige you to hit with your body (not like the Mera Mera for example). The hardening provided by Haki sure is usefull with a DF that oblige you to punch to win.
Also, it's possible that Defensive & Offensive Haki are the same, that would be why Luffy's fist goes on fire when he stretches it back fast enough : Haki allows Luffy's arm to burn without bunring his skin and creates heat then explosion.
Back to Ace vs Luffy now.
In term of physical strenght, Ace is maybe stronger than Luffy. They trained together for years and Ace is two years older.
But it seems that the DF he had didn't make him use this physical strenght.
So now, Luffy use Haki well and can hit the Logias.
With his speed and his power, I'm sure Ace wouldn't hit him at all and might be destroyed soon by the Elephant Gun :O
And I'd say that now Luffy and Mihwak would get a tie. Just, Luffy would have to be the fastest as he can.
Luffy and mihawk a tie? that would mean luffy would destroy shanks in his current state according to you.
Okay, a couple of you are starting to get a bit ridiculous with the strength measurements here.
First, let's get this Mihawk talk out of the way. Mihawk would most likely slaughter Luffy and Zoro. They would lose. If they were strong enough to tie with him or push him to use 80% of his ability, that would mean they are nearing Yonkou levels of strength which would be a bit ridiculous at this point in time. Luffy's speed is a pretty moot point for this fight, since Observation Haki exist and we've seen plenty of people keep up with Kizaru. I'm pretty sure it's a safe bet to say Mihawk could keep up with Luffy's speed. For Zoro, it would depend on how Mihawk trained him, but I would like to assume that Mihawk didn't show Zoro his all and wanted Zoro to do his own thing so their fight would be much more interesting. Long short, Luffy and Zoro should still be quite a ways off from facing someone like Mihawk. As they are now, they probably wouldn't die, but I can't honestly say I think they'd push him to use a good portion of his ability. Mihawk is one of a few Shichibukai who could go toe to toe with a Yonkou.
Now onto Luffy vs. Ace. As it stands now, Luffy is most likely around Ace's level, but might still be a bit weaker. The biggest and only thing against Ace in this fight is his lack of Haki demonstration. It's probable that he can use Busoshoku Haki, considering the other top Commanders in WB's crew could, but we still can't say he did as he didn't show it. If Ace demonstrated Haki use, it would be a fairer match. The two are most likely equal when it comes to physical abilities. Even endurance wise. BB is quite the monster and his strength is well known, I don't think we should knock Ace for feeling the blows of a strong man like that. Especially since Ace got back up and continued fighting. Ace is a much more experienced pirate than Luffy as well. He was a New World Pirate that was one of the top commanders on a Yonkou's crew.
Ace is a pretty strong pirate. He managed to make it to the New World rather quickly, was asked to become a Shichibukai rather early(similar to Boa and Crocodile), fought Jinbe to a stand still for five days, and managed to fight and survive against WB, prompting the latter to recognize his strength and ask him to join his crew. I'm pretty sure Ace's bounty is a fair measure of his strength and ability.
Last edited by eefrit; September 09, 2013 at 10:35 AM.
Problem is, Oda has never really shown Ace fighting properly against a strong opponent. Yeah, we heard he fought Jinbei for 5 days (if I remember correctly) and his fight with BB was just poorly made, in my opinion. Fucking Worf effect. Made it look like he was really weak, instead of showing BB's brutal strength.
Still, all of his fights were mostly off panel.
How should I say it. I think Luffy is stronger now, but I think Ace could beat him if he used his power properly. I mean without the plot-induced stupidity. There are plenty of ways in which fire can be used. And one of them is not very much unlike CC's ability to remove oxygen. Lot of unused potential with Ace's abilities. But then again, he wasn't the main character.
Current = Mihawk stated by oda most powerfull swordsman in the world.
Shanks isnt stated to be the strongest swordsman in the world.
Shanks = younko pirate with a big crew
Mihawk = forever alone
About ace vs Luffy.
Luffy would win handsdown after time-skip, since ace is a corpse, like brook
Last edited by DutchPhoenix; September 09, 2013 at 10:42 AM.
now,to the point of luffy and ace.i agree that ace would win.now that luffy is stronger,maybe he would give ace a good fight and maybe luffy's strength would be little greater than ace's pretimeskip strength,ace would still come top in a fight against luffy.(he obviously is more smarter.
Last edited by takneeque; September 09, 2013 at 11:01 AM.
This article explains what I meant. Enjoy
(Even has some OP examples.)
Last edited by Razh; September 09, 2013 at 01:09 PM.
I will go for Luffy.
Comparing their bounties will gain me nothing, but comparing feats.
What do we know of Ace's power? He showed less of an endurance than Luffy has done so far, and he will get better (yeah, Ace is dead and can't improve..). But as it is now, Luffy's stamina is about what Ace's was. Then again, same problem. Ace was said to have all kinds of Haki, right? But was he ever shown using any? Only Haoshoku and that was not out of his will, he did not control it freely. Luffy outmatches Ace in speed, bravely. Try to set him on fire then. Also, he would dodge the fire with his Busoshoku, I assume. Not to mention that his Busoshoku would cause Ace some serious troubles. Luffy's Haki won't cover all, he will get burnt, but he will win this fight with a margin.
I don't understand why some people keep claiming that Mihawk is as powerful as a Yonkou. If Mihawk was relatively equal to Shanks almost 20 years ago when they were both rising to power, then that just means Shanks at that time wasn't powerful enough to be called a Yonkou. Back in those days, Whitebeard's equal was Roger not Roger's cabin boy. Assuming that they're equal in power now would've meant the Marineford war should've been one sided seeing how the Marines had its 3 admirals and Mihawk as well as other Shichibukai and Vice Admirals on their side against Whitebeard and his fleet.
Anyways, back on topic.... I think Luffy would win against Ace with some minor effort considering his mastery of haki. The only way Ace could beats Luffy is by experience and using Luffy's sheer stupidity against him. At least, based on what was shown of Ace, up to the Marineford War and what Luffy has shown since the time skip, that's the feeling I get.