Madara wipes the floor with The Alliance, Meteor no Jutsu style.
Obito decides to finally use his Rinnegan and Chou Shinra Tensei The Alliance
Ino controls the Juubi and makes it eat Madara and Obito
Sasuke crashes the party and every fangirl screams
Hinata reveals she's the mastermind behind the Juubi, and backstabs Naruto
Juubi & Co decide they are suddenly weaker and let the Alliance do their thing while standing still like robots
Juubi does NOT fire his Bijuuhameha at the Alliance and patiently waits until Kyuubi is ready to dance
But logical perception is irrelevant through the story.
Only reason he could stand up to Nagato and preach to him was because of the Kyuubi.
The Kyuubi has essentially allowed Naruto to circumvent what would normally be impossible, and thus, he is allowed to prove others wrong by simply having something that lets him get around everything. That isn't being inspirational IMO, that is simply being stronger than someone. This is why what he is doing is unrealistic, because without the Kyuubi he'd be long dead and wouldn't be able to do anything.
IMO, it makes you wonder would Naruto be any different than some of his counter parts without the Kyuubi? Without it's power, he would have given into hatred and sadness long ago because he would have continued to fail in life.
Unless you put the five-pronged seal on him like Orochimaru did. Then Naruto's not that dangerous, but with jutsu like Swamp of the Underworld and ability to transform others into toads, he can be pretty dangerous. Or, he can learn covert and mimic someone's shadow. That's far more dangerous as the info Naruto can get would be tremendous, especially mixed with his kage bunshin. If he remembers anything said. <_<Quote:
Naruto's known for asspulls out of nowhere. He'd probably survive Kyuubi's extraction, while Sasuke might choose not to use Susano'o out of pity.Quote:
Kyuubi didn't make its appearance until Naruto was chained down, and only because of Hinata's "death." Naruto still beat Deva with his own power at the end. And against Nagato's mind control, he was in Sage Mode. Maybe that was enough, I guess? Kyuubi could have chosen to push back Nagato's chakra like it did with Fukasaku.
True, but he was able to win because he didn't give up. He didn't sipmly say "oh no, I can't use my chakra! Neji, you win. :<" He just told Kyuubi to lend him chakra. Instead of sayin "eff you Pa," he said "I won't give up, and I'll bring peace!" Even though he'd be dead without the Kyuubi, it's Naruto himself who continues to fight that makes him inspirational.
I doubt it, since Naruto wouldn't have any need to be a failure since it's implied he was only an idiot for attention. He'd have probably been smarter, and a better ninja, as well as not have a shitty childhood that'd make him give in to hatred and sadness.
IMO, you are missing the point I am making. Naruto would never be able to continue to fight without the Kyuubi, he'd be long dead by now. His ability to say "I'm never going to give up, believe in me!" Is only possible because the Kyuubi keeps helping correct his mistakes. If people want to believe in someone, it should be the Kyuubi for allowing Naruto to live all these years.
And if Naruto lacked the Kyuubi he would have never had a chip on his shoulder. Would have been trained by his father how to kill, would have been a great student for Kakashi, and wouldn't of had half the impact on the world he has now.
Last edited by Delbi; December 04, 2012 at 09:29 AM.
During Orochimaru's invasion of Konoha, it's implied that only Minato could have stood up to him, so, it's highly probable he was still well behind in terms of skill when he was appointed as Hokage.
Sasuke not using Susano'o is what I find unlikely. Unless he has a limited chakra to go with, of course.
My bad, though. The Bijuu would have roamed around on its own, then.
No, it wouldn't. Raikage mentioned of this while threating to kill Naruto to stop Kyuubi from getting extracted. Remember it now
---------- Post added at 01:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:43 AM ----------
What you desire that power for however, can indeed be immoral. In Madara and Obito's case, the idea of taking away free will from every human being on the planet is indeed immoral.
Losing faith in the wold, and in people doesn't make you immoral, it on one end makes you highly logical (although losing all faith in the human race certainly takes your logic into question) or highly defeatist in nature.
Nagato maybe a mass murdering terrorist, but you can't deny that he's still a human. He may be change his heart to hatred but still his heart knows how to loved or cared to his comrades/countrymen. Nagato was being manipulated by obito, his way of thinking about peace and love was change to peace and hatred/fear.
Nagato was suppose to be a good child. So if naruto change him to his own old self, then it's realistic. If he sacrificed his life because he believed in naruto, then maybe he remembered his old self, his idea, his belief, his mission and his goal to naruto.
Obito may successfully manipulated nagato, but maybe, somewhere in nagato's heart is still resisting or can't accept obito's goal or his doing. That's maybe the reason why he was easily influenced by naruto. Maybe nagato's heart isn't entirely full of hatred/evil.
No, I'm not talking about giving up believing in other people or the world. What I refer to as immoral is giving up believing in yourself.
Just like it was the case with Nagato, and now it is, with Obito. Madara gets a pass from me in that sense.
---------- Post added at 02:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 AM ----------
Could also be that Hiraishin and fuuinjutsu, as well as Kushina being the jinchuuriki, were the only reasons he became hokage while Hiraishin was the only reason he could stand up to Orochimaru.
Never know, I hope something happens that takes Susano'o out of the equation. We don't need another DBZ.Quote:
Where was it said he was killed? If I recall, all jinchuuriki have just been knocked out.Quote:
No, raikage mentioned that killing Naruto would put off Tobi's plan for a while. Kyuubi would come back, but it'd take a while for it to be revived. Pain wanted the Kyuubi immediately.
---------- Post added at 03:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 AM ----------
No, I understand it well. I'm just saying that Naruto himself didn't give up when he could have.Quote:
Exactly. He'd have actually been much smarter, though I"m not sure if anywhere near Sasuke's level.Quote:
Maybe that's the way for peace to naruto. Forgiveness and love would heal the hatred of the ninja world, then maybe they would going to understand each other. What naruto did to nagato is he forgive him on what he done to jiraiya. Naruto wants to tell nagato that forgiveness is the key for peace, if the ninja knows how to forgive then the cycke of hatred will soon come to an end.
How can you expect nagato to embrace his ideals again when he encountered jiraiya if jiraiya himself never remind nagato to his old self?
Do you think nagato would change his heart if jiraiya would told him that his name was written in the last page of his first book?
Do you think nagato would embrace jiraiya if jiraiya told him that he'll going to find the peace like his old self?
No. The impact of naruto's opinion to nagato is different to jiraiya. Because naruto isn't just the momento of jiraiya, but rather, naruto is both momento of jiraiya and nagato.
Regarding Naruto's mentality, I don't think he would be as weak-willed as Hiruzen:
Oro became evil because Hiruzen turned a blind eye ( if I recall right, he remembered the guy was evil since he was a child ), I can see Naruto trying to get to the kid since day one, not letting him roam free doing what he wants, but following him in his time of need.
I also don't see Naruto playing favourites like Hiruzen did, really
There is a reason why Yondaime is always hailed as a one-of-a-kind genius
Expecially in part 1, where Kyuubi was Naruto's Gekkei Kenkai basically.
Also did we miss Naruto's growth the moment he received attention and love?
Do we have to compare Naruto's growth in half a year with everyone else, even without Kyuubi? The guy goofed around, alone, for 13 years, seeking attentions and doing pranks.
It also helps that he's not the brightest guy either
I really want to point out something though on the issue ( not really pointed at the post above, but at the general idea ):
Naruto is a shounen, and Naruto is the main character. Shounen are always about the main overcoming obstacles and never failing when it matters most ( as Naruto had his fair share of failings ), and this will never change.
The guy saying that Naruto can't fail because of plot are, you know, a little too late, do you expect your shounen main character to fail and die? If so, you really chose the wrong manga.
Even in reality, do you believe in ones who are all bark and no bite, or guys who gets shit done?
Naruto gets shit done, he may do it in a retarded way ( Nagato's conversion was retarded ) but he does it nevertheless.
As for the ones who says he didn't grow, did ya miss Itachi's talk? Did you miss Itachi saying to Naruto to not shoulder everything by himself, but to let others help.
And this was the Naruto that understood pain and that overcame his inner hatred to master the Kyuubi. Narratively speaking, Naruto's growth should've been done, and yet here he was, receiving a life lesson by someone else, and abiding to that teaching to this moment.
Now he's facing impossible odds, Obito can be TnJ'ed, but Madara and Juubi likely can't.
We're about to see Naruto's answer to "how can he deal with those who can't be converted" in a short while, so sit tight and reserve judgement for when the fight is over.
But then again, I know many will continue to bash Naruto regardless, saying he's no good because he depended on others and all that.
Which is fine, really