Very good/Very Satisfactory (Or just "Madara" if you prefer)
Pure utter crap of a chapter
Fukasaku has already told us what happens to Sages with genjutsu and any other techniques. They become more proficient. Genjutsu requires the interruption of a ninja's chakra flow. Sages have not only stronger chakra but also better chakra control. This makes them more resistant to genjutsu. You wonder if Naruto lost sage mode but I interpret those moments as Naruto standing down, disarming himself as a gesture of peace. Any idea that he lost sage mode is completely contrary to the very benefits of sage mode.
As to Itachi getting the upper hand on Kabuto: he's a frigging Uchiha.
it was a filler. were a monster use a genjutsu and stun naruto cause he was trying to use sage mode. and in the filler i think gai or yamato say something about sage mode weakness been genjutsu. but i dont think this goes in the real story of the manga.
it would make sense cause they always give naruto a weakness when it come to sasuke power.
what a weird discussion. i don't think Sage Mode is weak against genjutsu. actually it's the opposite. even if it was weak, what would that mean? it's not like Sage Mode keeps Kyuubi out of equation. if Bee can break genjutsu with Hachibi, then Naruto and Kyuubi can as well, sage mode or not.
and anime fillers are just that, fillers. and how fire ball is a weakness for Rasengan? i can't understand.
Naruto learned said tech in 3 stages:
The first step was learning how to burst a water balloon by spinning the water inside in multiple directions at once using only the user's chakra, which emphasises rotation.
The second step was for the user to burst a rubber ball, and since rubber is thicker, and air is completely different from water, it forces the user to use denser chakra to break it. This step emphasises power.
The third and final step was to combine both step one and two by spinning chakra inside a balloon without moving the balloon itself, emphasising stability of the sphere shape.
With no 3'th steb and it showed here what it means:
With the last stage:
The end result from comparing the 2 above:
The fact that he could not hit Kabuto with a rasengan just gave him the luck of figuring it out how to do it with a clone... Now if Kabuto would have been hit with a stage 2 Rasengan you can be damn sure he would get right back up like nothing happened (especialy with his healing). As you can see in the links above it did minor damage even to the tree.
He was losing it? PROVE IT. He lost NOTHING after a combo of Kyuubi chakra, Nagato chakra infusion AND his feelings.Quote:
Nagato sends chakra to the target trough said pipes, its even enough to move Kakashi a bit to the right (or left whatever it was) and miss Deva.
Genjutsu does not take over someone's chakra reserve and it does not rearrangies it. How did you got to that conclusion is beyong me.
Genjutsu works when a ninja extends their chakra flow through the cerebral nervous system of their opponent to control their mind, thereby affecting their five senses. It does end up messing your chakra somewhat because you are in a genjutsu and your mind is effected but in no way shape or fashion it ends up doing more crep then a combination of Kurama's chakra leeking into Naruto+Nagato sending powerfull chakra to mess up his own.
Also yes Kakakashi could still Raikiri but so could Naruto when Itachi put him into a genjutsu(Rasengan for Naruto).
He was not holding it back. His eyes started to change. That only happends when Kurama's chakra is mixing with his own. It was not a masive amounth of chakra but it was there. More then a genjutsu sends anyway.Quote:
Proven what? Nagato sends chakra to his target... Then you are comparing doing it to Kakashi from a distance to point blank range to Naruto. It was made CLEAR that what Naruto did there it was an INSANE FEAT. Stated so on panel. Konan could not belive her eyes that Naruto could rezist Nagato from that distance.Quote:
And why would i do that? Its not relevant what is a more powerfull tech but what can send and mess up your chakra more badly. Even a little bit of chakra leeking after Orochimaru used that thing on Naruto's seal and he could not walk on water. Genjutsu effect is over the mind to put you into a ilusionary stated, it does not mess up your body in a physical sense. I don't even remember ANYWHERE in this manga anybody using a genjutsu and somebody be unable to use a jutsu because of it.Quote:
Heh. You are looking at this from a wrong point of view. Its irrelevant what is a more powerfull ability. Genjutsu does something and what i listed there does something else.Quote:
Whatever it was you can be damn sure its more then a genjutsu can send to you. Genjutsu has nothing to do with sending masive amounth of chakra to the target to take over it... A little bit of Kurama's chakra its already a lot of it.Quote:
Again your Kakashi example is just wrong considering the distance Kakashi was from Nagato.
What it has to do is with your last post, did you forget that you claimed he lost SM because he "loves" Iruka crep??Quote:
Ha if you whant to bet i have a lot more people thinking its Naruto droping out of SM by choice then the other way around? Even on the same page you had somebody stating the same thing as me. Oh yes go ahead and give me that "your people" are better then the other ones.Quote:
Naruto just droped out of SM as it was no need to keep it active and he probably had the idea that RM was better (and used it after that to). Once you create the chakra its there. Focus is needed when you are transforming said chakra and getting more of it. There is nothing to focus at once you are in SM... You seriously think Kabuto was focusing anything when he was in the genjutsu world? How the bloody hell would he even do that(read more on this below)?
I am not getting defensive i am just remembering the discussion we had before and you used Sasuke and Juugo as example. I also used Naruto because he is a sage. We have limited number of sage and feats. Most come from Naruto. Also i completly disagree that Naruto is not the best. For one Kabuto needed to "steal" power to even get there... Remove Kabuto's other abilities and go SM vs SM and i would give Naruto the win easy. Kabuto would win over SM Naruto becaus he also has genjutsu, water mode and so on.Quote:
And of course this would be wrong... Naruto himself is NOT constantly getting more SM energy man... He get's it once, balance it and then he is good to go... Kabuto even if he can get chakra energy because of Juugo (evidence he is not as good as Naruto) he still needs to balance it and create senjutsu chakra just like Naruto. Genjutsu would obviously disrupt Naruto trying to get more chakra energy if he get's a face full of genjutsu when he is getting chakra energy for that 1 second he needs but that is another story.Quote:
Going by this last bit you aparently don't grasp even the fundamentals of SM. Juugo's ability only grants him the ability to pasively absorb NE but the balancing act and transformation into senjutsu chakra its done by focusing on it. Why do you think he had to train for it?
He is no diferent then Naruto. Only diference is that Naruto needs to stop a second to get NE and then pop SM back up. Actualy not sure he can just absorb and transform NE into senjutsu chakra on the move considering he was focusing here:
He is CLEARLY focusing. Its not something that can be done from inside a genjutsu. He even forms a handseals as he does it. Kabuto did not show the ability to get into SM on the move, he did not show the ability to enter it and create senjutsu chakra with no focusing first.
In short Juugo has the ability to absorb NE from around himself (something like the oil) but he sure as hell does not have the ability to balance it and create senjutsu chakra automaticly.
Last edited by xXan; December 09, 2012 at 04:37 AM.
I'm a bit confused how people are still able to think with Kurama that Naruto won't be able to fight off a genjutsu after knowing the hachibi helped out Bee from a genjutsu and adding that it's able to nullify his sage mode. I find it ridiculous to even have it as a topic of discussion
Starting to sound like a bunch of that uchiha, or in this case sasuke too much.
Fireball is a fire element while Rasengan is still a wind element.
It's the element's weakness, fire > wind.
Last edited by hollowdemon; December 09, 2012 at 06:48 AM.
Even if naruto would be caught to genjutsu, he can cancel that by absorbing natural energy.
And even we assume that sage naruto would be caught by genjutsu, he can still cancel that by using the natural energy around.
He was already in sage mode and yet he's still absorbing the natural energy.
It's clearly obvious that sage mode naruto has the ability to cancel sasuke's genjutsu.
the bottomline is, Rasengan isn't weak against Great Fireball. Fūton: Rasengan, even though it is wind element, it is much stronger than Great Fireball, hence it isn't weak against Great Fireball either.
On the genjutsu issue, the user of the genjutsu imo could be able to disrupt Sage Mode if he knows how to use and manipulate Sage energy, otherwise he wouldn't be able to significatively alter the user's chakra flow.
Its known though that SM users can be affected by genjutsus, and that, when they are hit, they remain in Sage Mode.
The only 2 times Naruto got out of SM unwillingly were:
1. Against Preta Path
2. When Kyuubi affected him with his will, forcing his chakra inside Naruto.
If we go by option 2, the Genjutsu user, to end SM, would need to overpower it
Last edited by Uchiha_Blood; December 09, 2012 at 07:50 AM.
I don't think that sage mode's weaknesses are the genjutsu.
Infact the sage mode improves the genjutsu ability together to the other things.
Infact I believe that the normal Naruto is weak against the genjutsu (or at least against the normal sharingan (while perhaps he is able to break the other genjutsu (infact at the beginning of Shippuden we know that Jiraya teached him about that)).
At the opposite I believe that in sage mode (even if we have not any test that confirm this) Naruto will be able to evade from the normal sharingan, but he will lose against the MS or EMS.
And in the Biju's mode he will be able to evade even from the MS, just like Bee did against Sasuke.
Well , Sasuke won't use genjutsu against Naruto ... not because his genjutsu has no effect but only because Naruto is main character and has some obvious lame advantage over his opponent ......
for example , Tobi could control Sandaime kazekage with his genjtusu ( and he was prefect jinchuriki ) but he never use genjutsu against Naruto ...
Or Madara is a genjutsu beast but he never use his genjutsu against Naruto ....
some good guys have some advantage .... .for example , Tobi could beat Yondaime with genjutsu or at least trap him in his genjtusu for 1 second ( in worst scenario ) but he didn't use Genjutsu even when Minato directly looked at his sharingan !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lame writing .......
---------- Post added at 09:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 AM ----------
anyway , I hope kishi won't bring back some ideology chalange for Naruto anymore .... This is become a real pain for me to reading some bullshit as Naruto's answer for world's problems .... and the last one is worst one , " I don't care ... " ... and Naruto consider himself as World's Savior !!!
Ya but I don't think any fire technique below Ameterasu is strong enough to stop FRS. Fireball would simply get blown away. As the analogy was given a strong enough wind can still put out a fire.
---------- Post added at 04:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 PM ----------
besides, sasuke's susanoo in ems form, can shoot amaterasu disks like machine gun. He can hit frs in naruto's hand easily. still, naruto may dodge with his increased perception in sage mode or increased speed in rm.
Last edited by abyozuu; December 09, 2012 at 12:22 PM.