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Heh Naruto's RM clones are Kage level ++++ fighting all over the battlefield after Naruto exhausted himself running trough the forest. Naruto has an ARMY of Kage level clones. Its not that Sasuke can't keep up. Its Sasuke getting STOPED if the plot does not hold 90% of Naruto's power down. Sasuke has no bloody way of keeping up with FULL Kurama mode Naruto.
Madara? Just about the same thing as above. There is NO WAY in hell Madara in normal mode is leagues above Minato (no ST). Its just not possible. But of course he can keep up as Kishi needs to make a story. Madara even had some problems with Raikage's speed but who cares right?
Sasuke asuming no plot holes should be a STATUE (aside from poping Susano) to Naruto just like he was vs Raikage and just like Minato was to Raikage. Actualy more as Naruto is a good deal faster in RM lvl 2.
Seriously all Naruto needs to do is put up Kurama mode, put his hands up and state: Flashdama. Result is Sasuke in the afterlife asking WTF happened. That is a MASIVE attack. No dodging and no tanking it with Susano. Its larger then 5 biju's put togeder (look when the 5 biju's are forming the Bijudama that chalsed with Naruto's). Oh and yes i got the fact that you where just refering to Sasuke keeping up with his speed. Just felt like putting this up to.
PS. This is about Naruto's full speed. If the plot would allow it he could keep that up constantly considering his chakra reserve but meh... Thing is Sasuke has no way of keeping up with full speed Naruto aside from poping Susano and hopping Naruto does not whant to kill him so he is going to go gentle on him.
But i do agree that if the plot does not allow Naruto's full speed shunshin no jutsu then Sasuke can keep up with Naruto's casual speed. Not going to win a taijutsu fight considering Naruto can pop arms out of his but and what not but he can keep up. But when full speed comes into play Sasuke should not be able to keep up just like he could not vs Raikage and Minato himself could not (aside from TP out of the way).
Last edited by xXan; December 11, 2012 at 03:08 AM.
No. It would be like the Raikage vs. Sasuke thing. Raikage will be faster than Sasuke, but not so fast that he can overwhelm his defenses. Likewise, Sasuke doesn't need enhanced Sharingan abiliities for his perception to grow. Remember: Sasuke used the very same 3 tomoe Sharingan against Bee and Raikage that he used against 1 tail Naruto. Are you implying that Bee and Raikage both are slower than 1 tail Naruto?Originally Posted by NinjaStar
Ofcourse not. The reality is simply that as Sasuke fought more powerful opponents his eyes got accustomed to reading faster enemies movements. Bottom line: Naruto isn't fast enough to render Sasuke's perceptive abilities moot, because he's already fought 2 opponents with speed akin to Naruto's and did admirably, literally only getting hit by suprise attacks (Bee getting up from Genjutsu, and blocking his Chidorigatana. Both elements of surprise got Sasuke thrashed) and suicide attempts (Raikage giving up an arm to hit Sasuke). The literal only lynchpin here is that they didn't use clones or ranged attacks.
If Naruto's speed becomes a matter in any form, it'll only be thanks to a previously set up clone distraction.
Stop saying Flashdama as if it's a different/superior form of Bijuudama. Naruto can not make Bijuudama faster than any other jinchuuriki. It's just a plain Bijuudama. So call it a Bijuudama. Or else I'm gonna start calling Sasuke's Chidori's Turbodori's. Because he makes them without handseals.Originally Posted by xXan
Last edited by ninjabot; December 11, 2012 at 04:19 AM.
Huh? Its NAMED diferently. Its FLASH because its FAST. The other bijued charged up that bijudama as Naruto was LOOKING at them. Then as they shoot it he shoot his. He could create and shoot it after the bijudama from the other 5 biju's was completly formed...
Then to call something that can counter this bijudama:
That is bigger(way bigger) then all 5 bijus put togeder and having the force to counter 5 biju's of power just a plain Bijudama just shows how biased you are. Its like calling FRS nothing more then a Rasengan or Amaterasu just a plain Katon.
Not that it matters as its irrelevant if Naruto needs 1 second or 5 to shoot it. Sasuke can't do shit.
And i always assumed that the reason that Sasuke couldn't dodge Naruto in part 1 was because of the cloaks unpredictability and because of his own lack of speed. Sasuke became one of the fastest people in the manga over the time skip which is why he was now capable of dodging. His eyes were always there, his body just lacked speed.
IF it could be destroyed by continuous BD, then Kurama would have done so. So I am declaring this argument invalid before you even employ it for your argument. Sasuke can drastically reduce the continuous Bijuu Blasts' potency by creating a wall of raw Amatersu around himself like he did in his fight with Kabuto, and additionally encase his Complete Sussano (CS) with enton kagatsuchi. Since Amatersu eats through everything, it is safe to assume that the continuous and weak BDs won't hit at the same devastating force if they were left unhindered. These are two points for your post, which (no offense) is assumption filled like mine. Don't pass it off as canon.
A barrage of Magatama and the countless projectile entons Sasuke can create from them and the Amatersu wall is enough to take care of them. What will Naruto do if he can't touch Sussano? All his clones will be ineffective in a field laid with so many enton flames. The heat will invariably produce clouds like it did in his fight with Itachi, which would give him the advantage of Kirin as well. An attack that is as fast as 1/1000th of a second according to the Zetsus. Also, Naruto's most powerful Rasengan didn't even dent Madara's most weak Sussano form. You think it would effect or damage Sasuke's complete Sussano? I don't think it will, as the evidence points to contrary.
Also, Sasuke's Sharingen allows him to see Chakra networks, the amount of chakra left, and even chakra behind solid hindrances:
- Able to sense objects behind solid hindrances: http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/579/9
- Can see chakra, even determining how much is left within a user: http://www.mangareader.net/93-395-18...apter-390.html
- Can detect Chakra disturbance: http://1.p.s.mfcdn.net/store/manga/8..._ch243_p05.jpg
The latest chapters have also pointed out that EMS can even detect Mokuton clones, which means Sasuke will be able to detect shadow clones Naruto makes which aren't as complex as the former. And the chakra level of the clones will be a dead giveaway as well.
This fight isn't as simple and one-sided as you assume. There are arguments on both side of the fence. When I said Sasuke is on the same level, it's also based on my perceptive backed by solid arguments.
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---------- Post added at 11:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:41 PM ----------
While I definitely agree he has improved, he has still has a long, long way to go before he can match the battle genius of Sasuke. This facet of battle can be a major deciding factor in battle, as even though Naruto is on par with Sasuke in raw power, he's still beneath him as an over-all ninja.
Last edited by shahdan; December 11, 2012 at 01:44 PM.
Nevermind, you are right. my bad.
No, go read the chapter again. The 5 biju's charged up their own Damas and Naruto charged up HIS and shoot at the same time at them. He was LOOKING at them as they where powering up. When they where ready he charhed up his. Even Bee makes a remark on how Naruto is going to put the same power up after noticing what they used.Quote:
Also its FLASHdama.
Inside full mode Kurama? WTF? He also can use a clone to shoot Bijudama or shoot from 2-3 directions with clones...Quote:
Huh? You belive Amaterasu can go trough Kurama's shield? Oh please put the incredible feats of power from this thing. Show me where it could go trough a shield of Kurama's ability. Please do.Quote:
Arrows? Hope you are joking LOL!
Magatama? The hell? Same as above. Sasuke's trew power comes from trowing Amaterasu with it. Is not going trough Kurama mode...
Then keep in mind that in human form (not full size Kurama). Naruto can dodge ALL the above. If Raikage can he can to.
Its not, its fact that those attacks can't hit or go trough Naruto's full size Kurama shield. But of course you are free to prove the awsome feats of penetrating power from Amaterasu as after a long duration it did not go trough Karin's back (even if it was not focused) as it can't go trough a samurai armour after a long time and so on. Sure its going to pierce Kurama shield lol... The rest don't even deserve attention, those are just ridicolus.Quote:
The best feat Amaterasu has comes from Itachi going trough a frog belly rezistent to fire and then trough some wall... You can't even beging to compare that to Kurama's shield man.
You can declare whatever you whant but not with those arguments. Those don't need to be on the same level as normal ones. Sasuke can't block them with his attacks.Quote:
So em Kurama can't take that big Bujudama from 5 biju's with stream dama ... Can Sasuke? WTH is this relevant? Yes those are not on Flashdama level but they don't need to be to anihilate Sasuke... What you think his Susano the same Susano that got damaged and put a hole in it by Danzo using his pet + his own Futon is going to stand up to stream dama? Ok sure.
Not focused Amaterasu has horible feats. A wall of Amaterasu is not going to do anything aside of puting Amaterasu on the Bijudama as it goes to him. Not focused Amaterasu has:Quote:
The inability to burn trough FLESH AND BLOOD after some time of expousure(Karin's back).
The inability to burn trough some crep samurai armour after some time of expousure.
You have better feats? Please do link them.
Same as above. Amaterasu on his Susano does nothing but to transfer Amaterasu to his target's like it did to Raikage and that guy had his hand covered in Amaterasu for a long time and his hand was just fine, his Raiton shield was more then able to hold. BIjudama hitting Amaterasu on Susano is not going to do anything.Quote:
Your's are just wrong and got nothing to back them up. The manga showed what Amaterasu can do and its completly diferent then what you put up.Quote:
So Sasuke showed the ability to use all those moves at the same time in the interval a bijudama travels (stram bijudama) to his face? Got to see that one. Please link me to where this happened. Sure he truew some Magatama's at Zetsu but to trow a lot of them fast enough and combine with Amaterasu wall + entons? Come on.Quote:
I sugest you read more, the manga and databooks. Sasuke needs his dragon Katons to create the clowds. In CS lvl 2 he needs some 4 of them. He also had a forest burning from Amaterasu at that point. Some Amaterasu burning about its not going to generate the heat he needs and he is way dead before he can get it anyway.Quote:
Another example of you needing to read the manga. That was a Oodama rasengan in Naruto's NORMAL mode. Not even SM. You can't even compare that to FRS that left the Kyuubi itslelf going WTF ITS THIS POWER and the huge SM rasengan that he used as a barrage vs Kyuubi. If you belive that is his most powerfull version of Rasengan its just ... Yeah.Quote:
Yeah he is going to see the Flashdama that is way bigger then 5 biju's put togeder (probably half of Konoha in size) traveling to him right before he is dust.Quote:
And why are you showing me all this? I am well aware of his abilities (better then you probably) but they are irrelevant. Naruto is not going to hide or whatever. He is going to turn him to dust with full size Kurama.Quote:
No actualy Madara HIMSELF stated he can detect Hashirama's own wood clones. That could be something limitated to Madara no evidence it works on Sasuke. Then in last chapters Madara did not know what 1 clone Naruto was a clone. We have no idea if it works on SC or not.Quote:
Chakra level of clones... Are you seriously reading the manga or not? SC splits your chakra evenly from clone to clone to original... There are NO variations for the sharingan to detect.
Naruto puts up hands, Flashdama = dead Sasuke. That is about it... Also your "sold arguments" include mistakes, things that are not backed by facts... You do have some arguments but nothing to call 'Solid" arguments..Quote:
Heh even ninjabot admits Sasuke is dead meat vs Naruto. He himself admits Sasuke can't take bijudama's even if Sasuke can tank Rasengans... Him admiting that saying a lot considering you are not going to find a bigger Sasuke's fan with a rational mind around here.
Last edited by xXan; December 11, 2012 at 06:07 PM.
Originally Posted by NinjaStar
What? No. I'm saying that Sasuke's MS and EMS until proven otherwise share the same perceptive ability as his 3 tomoe Sharingan. And also that he can dodge blows from Raikage up close, just like he dodged blows from Bee up close, without using MS. First he dodged Bee's hail of sword strikes for a while. Then he blocked and dodged "Number 8", while he was in chakra shroud mode. And against Raikage he managed to circle to Raikage's blind spot for a sword strike, aswell as dodge a point blank elbow to the face. Both without Susanoo.
It's also important to acknowledge that Raikage's V2 speed is limited to a shunshin burst headed directly in one direction. Shunshin isn't a "mode" that keeps your speed at shuunshin levels for any lenth of time. It's a one-shot propulsion that sends you from point A to point B. Shunshin won't aid anyone in a close range bout except for fleeing an incoming blow and going considerably far away from the opponent...(Naruto dodging A's fastest punch) or starting considerably far away, and closing the distance (A dodging Sasuke's Amaterasu).
Bickering won't help the situation so I'll leave you with this: Naruto will not speed blitz anyone in the manga that currently has a Sharingan. This includes Sasuke. He simply isn't fast enough.
There is no way Sasuke will be able to follow Naruto unless his EMS allows him to do so. Which brings the question about his awakened EMS power. If the battle between the two is to happen, which is more than likely that it is, Sasuke's new power will have to be something with speed. Whether it'll allow him to follow Naruto's movements or it will increase his own movement speed, I don't know. But considering how unbelievably fast Naruto is now, Sasuke can't do squat without boosting his abilities in that area.
In terms of power and strength, they're probably on par, although if I'd had to choose, Naruto wins it. Can't ignore FRS, Bijuudama or combined RS with SM. Sasuke's probably gonna advance his Susanoo to perfection like Madara did so that's gonna be one hell of a fight.
The manga is coming to an end, but Naruto and Sasuke are gonna get more powerful than ever before. We can't judge it yet, that's for sure.
also, at xXan:
About the so called Flashdama, did you forget that manga are read from RIGHT to LEFT?
It's not read Flash-Dama-Bijuu. It's read "Bijuu Dama!!!!" Then, "Fash!!!" There is no such thing as a Flashdama, or Flash Bijuudama. None.
Still the fact remainds that Naruto can pop his "flash" bijudama after those 5 finished with the one they had. He also can mach the power of 5 biju's charging a bijudama TOGEDER. So he does has a "flash" Bijudama (the speed he can pop it) and he does has a bijudama way more powerufull then the rest can achive(obviously ignoring the Juubi). So stating that his "flash" Dama is just a plain Bijudama... Well at the very least its like calling Madara's Katons just some plain Katons.
PS. If i whant to call it FLashdama i can do so see? :P
Last edited by xXan; December 11, 2012 at 06:15 PM.
The next battle of Naruto and Sasuke will be their last REAL battle.
Naruto and Sasuke are suppose to be the recreation of the Sage's sons themselves...
Now what's Sasuke going to have to depend on for his favor in the battle?
- His Spiritual Energy (Eyes)
Now what's Naruto going to have to depend on for his favor in the battle?
- His Physical Energy (Body)
Now...neither of the sons won the battle...and thats why it went on for ages...I.E. Senju and Uchiha problem...
Now what's going to be the deciding factor for their battle?
The deciding factor for their battle would be....
Which one slips on a banana peel.
The deciding factor at the rate of power increase we have curently in this manga its going to be who can trow the biggest celestial object at the other. Madara has meteors but Naruto is probably going to grab a spiral galaxy (like our own Milky Way), trow it and name it Galaxy FRS(he already has planetary Rasengan for God's sake...) !!! Sasuke probably going to shoot Amaterasu that burns with the heat of one million exploding suns!