Not really, since full bijuu mode can't tank being burned with powerful flames if focused on. Itachi focused on Sasuke's body and on the toad's intestine, and burned both successfully. Sasuke did not focus on the samurai, Karin, or even the Hachibi, so the flames didn't burn as well. If Sasuke focuses on Naruto even in full bijuu mode, it'll likely work. Don't look at power, look at how differently they work. A slash won't get past Raikage's armor, but a stab from the same sword can actually get past it.
How can he reinforce his chakra cloak? And Sasuke wouldn't need to use it all day.
Once again, Sasuke did not focus on the Amaterasu that was on the samurai's armor. There's some proof that focus is required for Amaterasu to burn quickly. Sasuke has not focused his Amaterasu on anyone, at least before the EMS, while Itachi has. Itachi's actually burned bodies and made a hole in the intestines of a toad who breathed fire.Quote:
Huh? He didn't stop the shield at all until Gaara interfered, if I recall. And I don't recall Amaterasu getting bigger.... It just stayed on his arm band.
Samurai had an armor, which is good at protecting people from a lot of damages, to the point that he wouldn't be affected by the flames itself. Coupled with the fact that Sasuke did not focus on the samurai or give him a second look, it makes sense the samurai wouldn't be hurt badly by the flames. Naruto however, would have to move fast and out of Sasuke's way otherwise the Amaterasu will touch him.Quote:
You keep ignoring that Amaterasu is powerful when it's focused on.
So, you're basically saying Naruto doesn't have much willpower either, since he has a high tolerance to pain as well. Raikage does have willpower, as seen when he fought Madara. Raikage has willpower, considering he cut off his own hand that he can't grow back. Jiraiya brought himself back to life because of Naruto giving him strength. If he didn't think about Naruto and Naruto's nindo, Jiraiya would have just died there. You can't really say Raikage doesn't have willpower when he was able to cut his own hand off and still wanted to fight before even being healed.Quote:
That is, if he's not busy being shocked or unable to move. It'd be kinda hard for Naruto to do anything if the Amaterasu does reach him before he reacts, and considering he was standing still despite knowing Itachi was about to use an MS jutsu, I doubt he'll react to it. Although I'd say it's plot reasons that Naruto stood still instead of moving (as I'm sure Naruto would have moved if it weren't for the crow).Quote:
I disagree. Nothing indicates that Kyuubi can take Amaterasu. It can take bijuu bomb, it can take nearly all ninjutsu or taijutsu, but Amaterasu is different. It may or may not work, but it works differently.
Sasuke was beating Itachi in a fire jutsu showdown, but when Itachi brought out Amaterasu, it easily overtook Sasuke's jutsu. Difference in power.
Nah, it'd make sense in a way because Amaterasu burns at a powerful rate if focused on. Compare Itachi's two Amaterasu usage to Sasuke's and you'll see that focus is necessary. And, Karin did become unconscious, and the armor should be able to protect from basic damage.
Amaterasu works differently though, and is more powerful than fire.
My last word on the subject would be to simply boil my points down to this. I don't believe a fight between Naruto and Sasuke really works to prove their ideological points (at least not believably or well). If it doesn't do those things then there really is no point to it in my eyes. It would basically be fan-service that everybody is going to end up hating.
If Kishi wanted to make it more than that then he should have given them something more "real" to fight over that more clearly represents the points he's trying to make. Given that he, in my appraisal at least, did not I'd much rather see him go with what ninjabot suggested. Let Sasuke regain his feeling of friendship through fighting alongside Naruto for a common cause, and reward him with a heroic death. Redeeming him and tying everything into a nice tight bow.
Either that or do the co-op thing and then give him, my favorite, the delayed karmic death.
Last edited by Jammin; December 17, 2012 at 02:07 PM.
^I was about to reply, but then I saw Gintama, and all seriousness dissolved in laughter.
Expecially seeing again Okita's "death" ( I agree with you on the "how their confrontation should end" though, me trying to justify Kishi's attempt doesn't mean I wholeheartly approve of it ).
All mangas should be like Gintama, it would save us a lot of rage
Its called hell flames because its black and it hurts a lot. Kinda like Jiraiya's montain buster Rasengan, its an hyperbole used to hype the jutsu
Of coruse it does. If Amaterasu can't provide more damage / time then a biju beam then its not getting trough it. Its not like the shield has special rezistences or vulnerabilities to 1 of the attack types.Quote:
Amaterasu would need bigger "burst damage" then a biju beam to burn its way trough and get Naruto in time or its useless. If it takes 5 minutes of burning its uselss.
Full biju's with flesh and blood that can feel pain...Quote:
So it burned Sasuke's body .. That is a feat of what exacly?
It burned trough a belly that is rezistent to fire... Kurama can take insane acid and insane beams of imense destructive abilities from the Juubi itself.
You are going to need some better feats to prove he can burn trough that shield in time to be of any relevance.
So you are telling me Sasuke's(yes i asume you meant Sasuke's as a normal sword would be just lol) sword can stab Raikage? Please show me where it happened. If you whanted to state its a POSIBILITY that would be diferent but you stated it can.
Again its imposible for Amaterasu to do more damage / in its area of effect /interval then a Juubi blast. A juubi blat is a type of energy beam from what i can see, those burn to.
By dumping more chakra in his shield? Was this not obvious? Its like in Star Trek where the shield around a starship can be reinforced as long as you have more power to dump into it.Quote:
Yes Sasuke does not need all day but he does need to burn trough it in seconds or its irrelevant and that is not happening. I don't care if the fire burning on Kurama is going to get troug hit after some 5 minutes, that is irrelevant. To that point Naruto can take a lot of counters to get away. Not only that Sasuke would drop from chakra usage if he even tryied to focus for that long.
Did you read what i said? He did not focus on the samurai but he did not focus on Raikage now did he? Why would it burn trough Raikage shield when it did not on the samurai armour? Even considering the samurai got a bigger chunk of amaterasu?Quote:
After its cut it looks like his hand itself is more covered in flames then it was before, could be a drawing issue.Quote:
What do you mean what? I mean the shield is close to his skin and not where the sparkles are 30-50 CM away from his body.Quote:
Unless you whant to prove that the samurai has better shield then Raikage's Raiton armour then this is irrelevant. Then please don't tell me you belive samurai armour>Naruto's shield...Quote:
I am not. I am just w8ting for you to provide feats that would demonstrate it can burn trough Naruto's full kurama shield in time to be of any significance... What you think Sasuke is going to sit still and focus that thing for over a minute to do shit? Please... He is DUST by then.Quote:
Seriously read what i post? I said Raikage does not have MORE(key word MORE) then Naruto/Jman. I did not say he does not have will power, that is BS obviously. What JMan used as his willpower generator is irrelevant. Naruto has his friends to. Random example: when fighting Gaara he was thinking about saving Sakura. Same thing for JMan. Does not matter what it is.Quote:
Again cutting your hand off does not mean its willpower there. It can range from cold blood and highy tolerance to pain to other things. Its not automaticly hight will power to mach Naruto's and JMan's. Thing is ALL ninjas would not hesitate with there lifes if this means protecting there village, limbs and even life is irrelevant. That is how their caracters are shapped from the start.
Naruto on the other hand did the whent on with his revengeance, he was able to fight his need of revenge, the way the curent ninja system works and not go for the kill on Nagato...
Also the "will to never give up" its his trademark in this manga. You can't posibly claim Raikage has more will power then Naruto.
Stoping Naruto's movements trough the shield is close to imposible, even shadow thing and bugs failed. Sasuke hitting Naruto and shoking him trough that is has a very tiny % of happening.Quote:
Why move if the attack is not going his way. Raikage himself did NOT move from his spot before Amaterasu was shoot, he just stood there, w8 for the Amaterasu to be shoot and then move out of the way. So Amaterasu would first need to form in his face and THEN Naruto would move. No trigger (amaterasu forming in his face) and no action obviously.
It will not work in the needed time to be of any use. Again its irrelevant if after a week it can finaly burn trough. Naruto has 8 minutes max anyway. Before the Amaterasu can burn trough it Naruto can can counter by simply remove the effected part of the shield and be fine (that is after turning Sasuke into dust with Bijudama...).Quote:
It does not matter it works diferently. What matters is if it can provide the same damage potencial as a Juubi beam in the same amonth of time and that is so absurd its imposible. There is no way anybody can even argue Amaterasu can do that. Its the bloody JUUBI.
Hope you are not comparing some stupid Katon to Juubi beam now... Naruto even in 1 tails could take a fireball like that (part 1) with 0 damage...Quote:
Last edited by xXan; December 16, 2012 at 07:48 AM.
Either way though, the only excuse I've seen so far for Amaterasu not working is that it's less powerful than a bijuu acid or whatever else attack bijuus use. You can't really compare jutsu or ninjas to one another and use superiority to determine winners or losers.
The problem here with the "Amaterasu can't burn through Naruto's shield" is that people are of this assumption that Naruto's Bijuu Mode has far superior durability to Killerbee's Bijuu Mode. They both were taken out of the fight after being hit by Bijuudaman. The difference being that Bee was hit by a fullpower Bijuudama from himself. And Naruto was hit by a Bijuudama (unlikely it was full power, because it didn't have the same destructive force as the condenced ones we've been seeing).
Then? The explosion that engulfed Bee kept him inside the center. He experienced pain throughout the whole ordeal all over his body. Naruto simply kept tails in front of him, allowing him to brace for the blow of the beam. An Amaterasu would have the same effect as the Bijuudama that hit Bee: it would stay on his body, influencing excruciating pain over time.
I remember Amaterasu eating a measly C rank jutsu
You can compare them, if they are similar in nature:
you have a defence, which is Naruto's Kyuubi shroud ( the giant one in Bijuu Mode ).
Said defence withstood without even a single hole a Bijuu's acidic power.
Acid has similar properties with fire, that's why xXan and I used it as an example.
At worst, a Bijuu ( a being with may more stronger and higher chakra than human being which aren't freaks like A, Kisame or Naruto ) acid has comparable strenght than Amaterasu, meaning one can likely assume Amaterasu wouldn't be able to burn Naruto's shroud away, or it would burn slowly, meaning Naruto could discard easily the part that was hit by the fire
---------- Post added at 01:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------
here then Kyuubi alone withstood that, considering, as Hachibi was took in by Kakashi's Kamui ( which couldn't absorb the complete Hachibi and left a tentacle behind )
No, I'm not talking about there. I'm talking about when Bee was hit with a full power Bijuudama from himself that was bounced back at him, while Naruto was hit by a Bijuudama that wasn't fullpower, fired by the Juubi.
---------- Post added at 08:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:01 PM ----------
And that acid does NOT have similar power to the Amaterasu. Amaterasu has been called:
The strongest ninjutsu
The strongest katon
The strongest attack
No one's said anything impressive about that acid, and the only things it's ever burned away is trees.http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c568/3.html http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c568/4.html
---------- Post added at 08:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 PM ----------
You know what... I just realized, the 6 tails wasn't even using it's acid when it bit Kurama. It's just his slimy saliva from having a fist in it's mouth. If it was using acid we would've seen a fog followed by a sizzle.
Someone show me when the 6 tails used actual acid against Kurama.
EDIT: Actually, nevermind. I see a tiny, insignificant amount of smoke on his hand. Well, congratulations. You guys succesfully proved Kurama is more powerful than a tree.
Last edited by ninjabot; December 16, 2012 at 03:26 PM.
Just curious but WHAT do you guys have to support the fact that Amaterasu can burn trough Kurama's shield? Please provide the awsome feats of burning power from Amaterasu.
I can start you know?
Not focus and not burning trough:
Karins BACK, ROFL We all know Karins back > full Kurama shield.
If its not focused Naruto can RUN AROUND covered in fire dancing cumbia... And i am refering here to his normal chakra mode.
When Sasuke trew it on Bee and it did not burn him down, just made him scream, then Bee playing Sasuke for a punk and escaping Amaterasu. What was "burned down" was just a trick of Bee's. Bee was perfecly FINE after getting out of that. No burn MARKS OR ANYTHING. Curently when the 8 tails mode was damage HE was damaged. The only damage done to Bee was from the lost tentacles. Then we do know how awsomely strong those are, Minato can KUNAI his way trough them.
Burning trough the belly of a fire rezistent frog.
So yeah as we can see it has so cool burning power that nothing can face it. Yeah we all know Amaterasu > the JUUBI ITSELF(the blast). A blast that even Bee decided to get back and allow NARUTO to stop it...
This is the best. Did you know Naruto can blasts some 5 or so mountains with this:Quote:
Hell as we all know JMan's rasengan was stated to blast a mountain to bits and Naruto's is so much better... Yeah Sasuke get's blasted by 1 of those to bits. Let's go with hype because that is good in this case... Oh and if we go with hype Minato would probably be stomping Madara right about now.
Also the strongest attack? Better then the blast the Juubi trows in the last chapter? Better then CT? Better then super ST? Come on lol, hype is hype. The strongest ninjutsu? The above and then add Complete Susano, wood element, Izanagi and a TON more. Strongest katon.. well wow the strongest fire attack, big damn wow.
Oh and burning down trees >>>>>>>>>>> Not burning trough Karins flesh. What now?
Seriously even the notion that Naruto is going to pop full Kurama and Sasuke is just going to look at him and Amaterasu right trough his shield and kill Naruto and its appalling... I can understand people arguing about Naruto's normal shield but his full mode? WTF?
Ps this post is not only directed at ninjabot but at the rest arguing about this to.
Last edited by xXan; December 16, 2012 at 04:31 PM.
The only reason you can't get past the "Amaterasu hurts Naruto" argument is because you're still ignoring how flames and Bijuudama work. Not to mention the differences between Raikage's armor and a Bijuu Mode.
For one, Raikage's armor is just his chakra. It's not a sentient being manifested around his body. If it burns, the only pain that extends on to Raikage is the heat from the Amaterasu. And since his pain threshhold and physical durability >>>> Naruto's, that's the big deal here. When Bee was hit with Amaterasu, Bee and Gyuuki both felt it and were done. That's it. What's worse is that the flames will stay on him until he either turns off Bijuu Mode (and gets hit with another Amaterasu while recovering).
Inorder to give yourself an argument you're misconstruing what we're saying. No one here is saying that an Amaterasu is equal to a Bijuudama in immediate damage. We're saying the way Amaterasu works GUARANTEES that if one touches Naruto he's gonna lose an immense amount of chakra, thanks to Kurama being burned away due to Naruto having no way to get rid of it outside of canceling his shroud. And sense removing the shroud is the objective in the first place, mission accomplished. And the ease of connecting with an Amaterasu just does more for our argument.
Scenario 1: Naruto makes a clone or more, rushes Sasuke. Sasuke makes an Amaterasu wall. The clones die, and Naruto is caught with Amaterasu.
Scenario 2: Naruto charges a Bijuudama while clones try to distract Sasuke. Sasuke sees the large amount of chakra growing and hits Naruto with an Amaterasu. The intense heat either makes him fire the Bijuudama prematurely, or miss. Hell, it might even explode on him when he loses focus.
Scenario 3: Sasuke fires an Enton Arrow at Naruto, who catches the arrow with a Chakra Hand (because let's not forget: Naruto is smart), only for his hand to ignite. Next, Sasuke uses enton to burn up the hand, anything it's close to aswell.
Scenario 4: Naruto closes the distance between he and Sasuke too quickly for him to make an Amaterasu wall, so he just coats his Susanoo in the flames.
Scenario 5: Naruto fires a hail of chakra arms at Sasuke and he simply runs underneath them (if Kakashi and Gai can dodge chakra arms, Sasuke can too), gets close to Naruto and, while "prepping" an Amaterasu on the way, he fires it the instant he's too close for Naruto to dodge.
Scenario 6: Sasuke shoots an Amaterasu that either kills a clone, or misses Naruto and ignites the ground. Naruto rushes Sasuke from behind only for flames to loop around past Sasuke and slam directly into Naruto (it outran a Shunshin-using Raikage at max speed).
Scenario 7: Sasuke hits Naruto with a paralysis Genjutsu, knowing full well he's gonna break out of it the same way Killerbee did. Unfortunately, he knows how much time it'll take for him to escape, so he hits him with an Amaterasu while Naruto has no shroud protecting him, ending the fight immediately.
I'll concede that Naruto can use Kurama to heal his injuries he receives from the Amaterasu. But now that Sasuke can create these flames without spending a ton of chakra, the thought that Naruto could keep burning, losing chakra, healing, and rushing around at full power while Sasuke's barely wasting any (he used 12 enton projectiles, all of which incinerated Zetsu in seconds without even wasting a tenth of his chakra), the thought that Naruto is too far above Sasuke for him to do any damage is just... wrong.
I didn't see any acid hit Kyuubi, unless you're talkin about Kyuubi's arm being in that thingie's mouth. It doesn't look like there's acid in its mouth, chances are it's a jutsu that requires chakra. And once again, Amaterasu's power is pretty damaging when focused on, it could be far more powerful than bijuu acid. Bijuu acid doesn't require concentration to do damage the way Amaterasu does, probably for plot reasons.
Amaterasu is the strongest ninjutsu of the uchiha clan/MS.
Amaterasu is the strongest katon of the uchiha clan.
Amaterasu is the strongest attack of the uchiha clan.
There's no such thing in the manga that shows or has been stated that the uchiha clan possess the most powerful/strongest ninjutsu/attack/katon in the ninja world.
The amaterasu is no doubt the strongest ninjutsu/katon/attack of the uchiha clan. But not in the entire ninja world.
Guys, Amaterasu needs a lot of chakra and preparation. And thousands of clones can block it well. So Naruto actually had a way of guarding against it. No jutsu is perfect (only asspull no jutsu stands firm).