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Unohana owns Kenpachi, Kenpachi learns about his Zanpakuto during the fight
Unohana dies battling Kenpachi to death while holding back
Kenpachi defeats Unohana fair and square, but doesn't kill her
Whoever wins, someone (Kyouraku or other) interferes before someone dies
Other (Mention in discussion)
hory shit! how old that phoenix guy is??? 1000 years ago yamamoto had already achieved his bankai,it means he had his sword for some years. but the gotei 13 didn't exist yet,so how could that guy have been a captain and joined the royal guards? probably he was just an elite shinigami,as captains didn't exist yet either.
here's my problem with Killing Unohana, for it to be worth it as far as battle strength of the Gotei 13 the new and improved Zaraki would have to be like Unohana x 2 (like another Yamamoto) otherwise you're losing 2 amazing fighters for 1 amazing fighter who's a lil stronger.... example.... Unohana power level 10, Zaraki 7, after the training and death of Unohana, Zaraki 2.0 is now at lvl 20....
Myself I'd rather have the 2 fighters myself
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I was just thinking about tousen and arrancar. In a flashback we saw him taking the zampakuto of his fallen friend and perhaps the current chapter explains how this was possible. Since the asauchi is a being independent of the shinigami in some regards it is not implausible for tousen to be able to take and use the zampakuto of a falling shinigami. I don't think you can just use the zampakuto of a another shinigami however it would not be strange that he was able to take the sword and imprint his own essence into it. Since the zampakuto had a previous essence, that of that woman who died, it was able to retain some aspects of her power hence why tousen had two releases. Benihiko would have perhaps been a remnant of her left in the sword while the cricket related techniques were born from his own power. Of course, I would expect a sword to have issues with suddenly serving another shinigami. The whole thing implies the sword actually even changing names and powers along with a change of allegiance to some degree. Perhaps the reason tousen was able to pull that off was because he already had deep respect and perhaps love for that woman.
As for arrancar, the whole process IMO got a decent bit weirder. In particular the weird part is that hollows to some extent are able to naturally become arrancar. Asauchi are not, as of now, a naturally occurring thing within shinigami. They are made (birthed?) and given to shinigami so that they can mold into their power. How does removing a mask result in something like a zampakuto appearing? The whole thing is very off IMO and it needs some serious explaining. I can buy the hyogoku molding an arrancar's essence and power into a zampakuto however how does an arrancar form naturally? Perhaps the issue at hand is that the zampakutp could be inspired on hollow powers to begin with. How a zampakuto is molded is extremely similar to how a fullbring is made to begin with and perhaps the externalization of powers a zampakuto seemingly allows was actually based on how natural arrancar happened to begin with. Observing how natural arrancar molded their power into a separate object and observing how objects could seemingly take on shapes based on the memories of the owner is perhaps how the concept of zampakuto was initially developed.
Now, the last issue would be just how asauchi are born to begin with. Asauchi can only be one thing, they can only be some manner of soul. Where do they come from? Why do they serve shinigami? Perhaps the actual asauchi is birthed from the soul king? Or perhaps they naturally occur and nimaiya gave them purpose by making them into zampakuto?
@kkck: Another thing that hasn't yet been explained is how exactly Ichigo got his zanpakuto: he wasn't given an Asauchi, so how did he get one?
If he used Rukia's, then how did she got hers back while Ichigo got another.
A possible explanation is that Urahara managed to create another Asauchi (given that he copied one RG invention already, maybe he could do another) and then give it to Ichigo.
However, that still leaves expaling Hitsugaya, who had ice powers before he was given a zanpakuto.
One thing that makes me wonder is this: zangetsu said that he and hollow Ichigo are the same, could it be that asauchi are also part hollow themselves?
I think Kubo implied that Haribel had something to do with giving birth to new arrancar, the cut from Juha talking about new ones to her seemed to imply so.
So rereading and rewatching it seems that Asauchi are not a requirement, although it seems Ichigo does indeed alter Rukia's original Zanpaktuo to create Zangetsu (we never again see her with a sword till after the SS arc)
Now we come to the Shattered Shaft, they put Ichigo down there with nothing, yet when he comes back out he has the broken pieces of Rukia's sword again, was it stored in his soul? his ass? who knows.... he reformed it again after Urahara cut it down to the handle/hilt also which is technically still the same sword he took from Rukia.
How does this effect Rukia, if Rukia can just go get another sword to replace what Ichigo took and still be able to go into Shikai np and use all her abilities, can't everyone?
And why the F wouldn't Bach or Haschwald steal Ichigo's bankai then? They were clearly strong enough to steal it. It was Strongly implied that the VR fear bankai, why not eliminate Ichigo's?
Also, you don't have to act hard on the internet or talk down to people.
Seriously, both characters are really popular (one who hasn't DONE anything in the manga yet) so it's quite impossible that either of them will actually die in a pit fight. All the people who's died so far has been pretty much side characters, except Yamamoto, just to show off the Quincy's powers.
Not only by logic, but also by seen flashbacks and words spoken. When Sasakibe applied to be his right hand man, Yamamoto was still just the head of a sword school, later on he may have put those thirteen people under his command, ceated the academy and Gotei 13.There are around 1000 yeaps apart between Choujiro showing his Bankai and Shinsui asking about Shogekuni's.
Last edited by Schabrak; January 20, 2013 at 12:27 PM.
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I don't think ichigo ever used rukia's though. Rather, the asauchi we saw ichigo use would have been the one given to him at some undisclosed point in the past. Once ichigo started using rukia's shinigami powers he simply used the asauchi that his soul had.
The asauchi as explained this chapter takes a form based on the essence of the soul of a shinigami. That would simply suggest that hitsugaya simply had an affinity for ice to begin with.
Of course, there are still a few unexplained plot points, there are a few weird things about the hitsugaya bit. Hitsugaya actually had visions of hyorinmaru if I recall. The asauchi at the royal palace don't seem to be actual swords at the moment, perhaps that is the issue here? There aren't that many souls with spiritual power to begin with and we know for a fact that every soul that goes into SS passes through shinigami filters and are assigned a place to live at. Perhaps at that point shinigami do something so that a zampakuto can be available to a shinigami? Perhaps the soul of the zampakuto is placed within a shinigami at that stage and at that point they can get an asauchi from the academy or perhaps by calling out to the spirit they can form their own sword.
I would think that urahara has at this point learned a bit from every royal guard. If anything everything he has done seems to go around their deeds to some degree. I actually wonder about ururu and ginta. Could they be asauchi or some variation of it? It would make sense if urahara was actually the one who made the asauchi that would turn into zangetsu though. I would find it a tad strange that urahara had that sort of capacity and did not fix renji's bankai when he trained with chad though.
One thing I am wondering about is just what exactly nimaiya and the asauchi are trying to teach ichigo and renji about their relationship with their zampakuto. Wouldn't zangetsu or zabimaru have said something if there was something wrong there? If we take nimaiya's words then most of the shinigami zampakuto relations seems to be kinda wrong though. Perhaps the issue lies at the part of which comes first. Perhaps the issue is that renji and ichigo take advantage of their zampakuto putting renji and ichigo first? Renji was kinda reckless when he fought byakuya and ichigo insisted on fighting juhabach after he was already withdrawing... Perhaps what nimaiya is trying to teach them is that zampakuto do not go after shinigami but rather stand as equal to them? That even if they are willing to risk their own lives for a cause it does not give them the right to actually be reckless with their zampakuto?.
hory shet! thanks guys,I forgot that part. so...how old that phoenix guy is??? he must have created zampakuto over 2000 years. not to mention that their leader is even older than them (the RG's leader,that is)
Older than two thousand years, younger than a million. We have no information regarding the age of the first zanpakatou, maybe we will once this story part is over or we get to see Soul King talk about the beginning sometime in the future.
Last edited by Schabrak; January 20, 2013 at 02:35 PM.