But the Kage were lucky that Hashirama wasn't there, according to Madara, since the maps wouldn't have to be redrawn so drastically. That means Hashirama would at least put up a fight in that state of his and would do much, much better than the Kage team did combined.
Then again, it's not the same as he would stop Madara right there, I agree. [/quote]
Ofcourse he'd put up a fight. Technically the 5 kage were putting up a fight. Though I interpreted Madara's "redrawn maps" claim as "When me and Hashirama clash, we fight so hard that the entire battlefield for miles becomes destroyed." And because Hashirama wasn't their to contribute to the destruction, there wouldn't be as much. In other words, Madara was about to destroy them so quickly that there wouldn't be any superficial damage outside of the 1 or 2 strikes it would take to end all of the Kage.
He didn't mean "Hashirama would do more damage to the battlefield than I can". He meant "We together cause alot of damage trying to kill eachother".
Funny thing is that as long as you don't have a Rinnegan or no plot no jutsu you have NO way of defeating curent Madara. NONE. Does not matter the numbers.
Madara just pops perfect Susano and that is it. What can you do? Damage it? Yeah sure then Madara just repairs the damage on the fly (infinite chakra). So what are you going to do considering there is no way to get trough Susano? Well perhaps if someone with the DG seal existed and that crep could go trough Susano but as it is...
Seriously Kishi is going to need some serious plot no jutsu to put Madara down...
I didn't really try to state he would be more destructive, either. I just referred to those words because that meant Madara acknowledging Hashirama's vast strength once again. Otherwise, of course, it can't be argued that Hashirama could have done something on the scale of the Rinnegan. It's just that he would fare better and possibly push him hard into using his Rinnegan, something the Kage were unable to do (by assumption).
---------- Post added at 01:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 PM ----------
I'd put my money on this weak theory.
Kabuto/Oro would need some insane plot no jutsu to get trough Madara's defences...
And I seriously laugh at anyone who thinks Minato can beat Hashirama or Madara. You'd have to be horribly deluded and blind to even entertain that thought. He has no place in this discussion anyway, he's irrelevant and has been ever since he died.
I believe Kishimoto really dropped the ball with this one. EMS Madara would kill the man we saw fighting - or even assume his prime with improved physical prowess - with the monstrous foot of his Perfect Sussano, the only thing he'll leave behind would be a splatted Hizuren.
Last edited by shahdan; December 29, 2012 at 06:04 PM.
''Madara with rinnegan can't touch/wouldn't do shit to hashirama''
Then you said that ''how come madara with rinnegan can't defeat hashirama?
So, does wouldn't do shit is the same as ''can't defeat''?
But anyway, my point is, kabuto who did the experiment on madara's body and he knew that he had the rinnegan differentiate their power from legendary to a myth. When I said madara admitted it and even kabuto agreed is that after all madara showcase his jutsus, rinnegan's jutsus and his perfect susanoo, he admitted that only hashirama can stop him now. I don't know how you interpret that one, but for me, it's clearly a fact coming from madara that all jutsus he had shown at that moment CAn be stop by hashirama.
Madara admitted that ''only hashirama can stop him'' so my argument about madara with rinnegan wouldn't do shit to hashirama isn't just a lie. Why? Madara just admitted that.
Kabuto agreed that by stating '' hashirama is more stronger than madara'' hashirama's power is like a myth''.
Now, if you think I'm lying, then prove it by providing a scan. Prove it that when madara said that only hashirama can stop him now, it doesn't mean anything. Prove it that kabuto is lying as well. Or maybe you can enlightened me on the true meaning of kabuto's arguments about the myth to legendary.
Thanks in advance. But anyway, I'm not a Tagalog but a Muslim from Mindanao. So it should be Muslim to English translation.
---------- Post added at 08:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:10 PM ----------
Horribly deluded and blind for thinking minato can defeat madara? Maybe
Minato would use his shiki fuin.
Then minato and madara died.
Is that impossible?
Hell Noh. If you think minato can't do that then you're the one who horribly deluded and blind.
---------- Post added at 09:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 PM ----------
Shafagh stated in his post(#25) that jiraiya, sarutobi and MINATO couldn't defeat hashirama.
Xxan said in his post (#10) that madara would just take a big dump on all of them. Yeah, for xxan, hashirama, MINATO, sarutobi and tobirama are no match to madara.
That's why I'm replying to his/their post on regards to minato. They're the one who started to bring minato back to discussion and yet you're accussing me with that offence?
How come the four hokages are no match to madara? That's why I said that minato and hashirama dou can defeat madara. Why? Minato's shiki fuin can trash madara. Both of them would died and hashirama + minato won with ease.
If minato has no place in this discussion, tell them. They're the one who bring minato in this discussion and not me. I'm just defending minato to them, nothing more nothing less.
I'm not the same with those uchiha's fanatics. Even in real confession thread, he bring sasuke to their discussion.
Hashirama's power is like a myth, because he was the only Mokuton user in history, most likely aside from Rikudou Sennin, up until Orochimaru began his experiments.
Besides, he was able to control the Bijuu, without the Uchiha's well-known genjutsu.
Madara had lots of clansmen who awakened Sharingan. Although the numbers are significantly down by comparison, there were people awakening Mangekyou Sharingan, as well (i.e Madara's brother).
So, I'd say this is the reason why Hashirama was seen as a legendary figure. He was perhaps the closest thing to Rikudou Sennin at his time, and Madara couldn't match his standout figure.
And as far as winning is concerned, I doubt using a sacrificial technique to seal your opponent counts as a victory.
Of course they are no mach. If it was about EMS Madara yes but curent IMMORTAL, unlimited chakra, no way of getting trough perfect Susano as he can repair any damage, wood ready (main tool of Hashirama), RINNEGAN, able to summon the MAZO and so on.... Yeah they are no match to him. 5 kages where nothing, he was PLAYING with them... Then once he decided he had enough... Well you got to see the page as good as the rest of us.
This is no longer just a man that Hashirama had to fight. Madara right now is something of a demigod. Hashirama can put as many swords in him (like he did before and almost killed him, or whatever it was as Madara was missing some holes in his body and replaced them with Hashirama's goo) but Madara would just laugh at him.
Now you stating Madara was fodder to Hashirama when we have clear evidence they where close to even is a joke.
Actualy you are the one who keeps getting defensive any time anybody puts up the name Minato. What i did there was to show how Madara is over ALL the Hokage and not just Minato. It was not even a reply to you but of course you had to jump and defened Minato.Quote:
Last edited by xXan; December 30, 2012 at 07:44 AM.
Part 1 was regular ninjas using fire,lighting, earth,water,wind and most of those techniques were and c and b level and some especial a level while they used alot combat fight(taijutsu), while using their knowledge and experience in battle as techniques such of rasengan,chidori,raikiri,shadow technique, lee taijutsu for example were techniques that were unbelievable strong for a shinobi...
Part 2 these techniques are shit compared to the god likes techniques such of rasengan shiruken, kirin,susano,amaterasu and all the aka members techniques and immortal people and then we got a bunch of kekkei genkai as rinnegan,bakuton,enton creation,futton,jinton of kekkei touta,shakuton,youton and ranton creation for example..
the only thing that i can think of is may be kishi didn't have naruto shippuden story ready while he was making part 1 if he did. kishi made a huge mistake talking about sarutobi being the stronger hokage while hashirama went from a hokage part 1 to a god like fairy tail shinobi in part 2.
Last edited by EMS; December 30, 2012 at 07:17 AM.
And Madara could actually match Hashirama. we know they fought each other countless times and failed to kill the other, and even at Valley of the End Hashirama failed to kill Madara. The only match we know where there was a winner was at Valley of the End, and that was Hashirama.
It doesn't, but Minato fans are deluded and like thinking it does when in reality, Minato would get curbstomped by Hashirama and Madara so easily. Madara puts Minato in a genjutsu before Minato even does anything and finishes him with Susano'o. Or Hashirama can just use his pollen and take minato out before he even knows it, and kill him. Minato can't win, but excuses, yanno.
I know. I wasn't talking about their combat capabilities. I was talking about their figure in people's eyes. Hashirama was a myth, because he was granted a godly power that had extreme life force behind it. Madara's abilities, as vast as they could be, were no match to that. And I think, this difference of figure, charisma or whatever we may refer to as that had a significant impact when it came down to choosing the first Hokage.
In comparison to Mokuton, yes. But even then, we don't know just how common Sharingan was. We do know that Mangekyo might have been first discovered by Madara and Izuna, so technically no Uchiha had the power to control the bijuu until the brothers came along. At least, no Uchiha that didn't have such strong chakra.
Oh, okay. I also think how they were perceived had a big role to play. Madara could have been seen as a war mongrel whereas Hashirama did want peace and fought for it. Not only that, but he could control all the bijuu and could defend Konoha well. Madara probably came across as too selfish or arrogant to put Konoha or its citizens first.
Do we really get to resort to baiting, again?
And why the hell we're discussing Yondaime's chances? Unless I'm wrong, the title says 3rd Hokage, not 4th.
So let's all be mature and drop it
As for Madara, he can't regenerate his Susano'o instantly, as showed when the Gaikage destroyed it with Hirudora.
Though, knowing he needs a living body to become a Jinchuuriki, he'll probably be put down when he'll live again.
I'm not sure if Madara will be taken down that easily when alive. He'll be a lot more careful and less like an ass when he fights, and he does have Rinnegan. He can absorb chakra, he should be able to push things away, and he has Asura's robot ways to help him. The main difference is, we'll get to see if Hashirama-powered Madara can last longer than Kyuubi-powered Naruto.
Has Kishi forgotten about Hiruzen? I would love to see him in a flashback and see how strong he was. I think that's the only way we'll ever be able to figure out whether he can beat Madara or not.