But itachi performing himself is entirely different from the fail safe method. Because I doubt itachi would caught obito off guard nor he had the tools to defeat obito's intangible jutsu. It seems obito knew itachi's caliber. And he knows what the MS ability is capable of.
So saying that itachi can defeat obito is a wishful thinking. He can't, because there's a huge difference between an uchiha to uchiha+senju.
Considering we were outright shown Sasuke keeping up and overtaking Ee in speed, they're clearly comparable. Naruto's performance against Ee proves that. And exactly why can't the Sharingan predict Amaterasu? Where was such a rule displayed? We see Sasuke dodging it by sight and no sign of it moving any slower then normal.
The only difference is how it would be triggered. Clones, genjutsu, his intelligences... Itachi would have plenty of means to catch Obito off guard. And we already know the weakness of Obito's technique. If geniuses like Kakashi and Minato could figure it out, why would Itachi have any trouble doing likewise? Itachi has not only the Totsuka Blade to instantly end him, but the trap Izanami. Two things that are basically instant winners. And honestly, there's not much difference except for the inclusion of Mokuton, which is a minor annoyance vs Susanoo.
How are Sasuke, Itachi, Obito and everyone else pertinent in a thread about Hiruzen and Madara?
Stick to the topic please
So, if we are to say EMS Sasuke was supposed to surpass Pain, I'm on the board. But I really doubt he could surpass prime Nagato (that is, without acquiring the Rinnegan)
Honestly, I don't know how we have come to this stage, either. I can't read these posts anymore, they are huge chain posts. It is like you need a Sharingan to read and decipher this. My posts are no different, anyway.
Anyway, there is only one point related to the Hokage fight back in Part I and that's the brainless puppets argument. I have already sided with Rikudou on this, but there is no way to be sure of how Kishimoto will handle a possible fighting scene for the Edo Hokage now. Kabuto's puppet Kage were fighting much better than Shodaime and Nidaime did in Part I, so, he can take a shortcut and let them vanish after a brief chat or else he'll definitely need to bring an explanation. Oh wait, he doesn't need it. This is Orochimaru's version of Edo Tensei, so, he could just say it's still inferior to the one Kabuto used and Shodaime, Nidaime and Sandaime will all be Chuunin level, while fanboyism will save Minato to a Jounin level at least.
the Hokages are loved characters, incredibly important plot-wise and they have among them the creator of Edo Tensei ( which should know how to escape from it, something Kabuto and by proxy Oro shouldn't know ), meaning he won't probably risk using them in the war.
What's more, all four combined are a force too great to unleash in the manga, they are positively the strongest team in all the Verse.
Hashirama + Hiruzen's ability to multiply kunai/shurikens for Hiraishin + Minato + Tobirama's whatever was his forte apart from Suitons
Pretty sure even Lord Madara would feel threatened, Rin'negan and all
And plot wise, it would be excellent if the Hokage were the one to stop Madara. It all started out of Madara's hatred for Konoha. Time to settle it for good now. They are all dead and they are all alive.
*Madara takes out one of his eyes and throws him at Hashirama. "Take it." he says, "Now, we are equal. Almost. If you want to get a statue of my cells in your chest, I could give them, too, you know."
Seriously, this is probably the last chance to make all these a bit more reasonable.
the new generation surpasses the next.
If the Hokages would save the day, it would mean that the next generation is no good, and I don't think Kishi wants to convey that. At the same time, this war was all about fanservice, so the Kages showing sick new moves would go with the flow.
Damn I would lose it if Hiruzen starts beating Madara around though
No he can’t. He can switch off the genjustu, but nowhere in the manga is it ever alluded that Itachi can somehow use a milder version of the moon genjustu. He can control the fabrics of space/time and sensations within the genjutsu. For example, for Sasuke he opted for mental torture and for Kakashi he went for Physical torture sensations. Since Sasuke can overcome it easily, this advantage of his is lost.
If Orochimaru does indeed become the big bad, the 4 Hokages would act as his 4 Horsemen of Apocalypse essentially. I don't forsee them going anywhere anytime soon permanently at least, they are far too valuable.
Surpassing them would be meaningful, but I don't think Kishi has in him to do another Arc after this one, expecially because, even if oro has those four, he can't top the Madara+Obito+Juubi trio imo
1) Naruto has to fight 1 of the 4 (probably Minato or Hashirama) and then he fights Sasuke and/or Orochimaru.
2) Naruto doesn't fight any of them, and 4 others do thus giving him the pass to fight Sasuke and/or Orochimaru. (Will get to who those 4 could possibly be in a second).
3) Naruto fights all 4 and then fights Orochimaru and/or Sasuke (highly unlikely if you ask me).
So, who would be the 4 people most likely to square off against the former Hokages? IMO, we have a lot to choose from.
Individually, there are few who would be relevant enough and powerful enough to do the job.
Kakashi certainly comes to mind. As does Shikamaru (would kind of be an asspull but it is possible). Gaara is another one. Tsuande or any of the Kages if they live. If we have a time-skip you of course have Kono.
IMO, what could happen is groups of nina fight each of them, but that they would need to be select groups. Sand trio. Kakashi, Gai, Tenzo. InoShikaChou, etc. etc.
Eh, Naruto and Kirabi's performance weren't any better against the Edo Jinchuuriki's or Obito. Can't really consider Nagato overpowered just by that. And to be fair, the glimpses we got of prime him fighting in the Ame civil war didn't exactly imply overwhelming strength, though it could have been he didn't know all of the Rinnegan's abilities at the time. I don't think EMS Sasuke would be that behind Nagato or Pain, who main saving grace was being disposable corpses.
I would really love it if you just put a link to where was it said he have more potential, instead wasting telling me this. Enton is an example of nothing. You didn't say he was implied to be, everything about Sasuke and the Mazo has nothing to do with this. When did Naruto admit that ? And how did you come to the conclusion that Naruto beat Pain ?Quote:
I keep saying it's logical to assume that, but it was never confirmed.
I don't see how it being called chakra makes any difference. All technique are made from chakra, but it never said to be PURE chakra and nothing but that. I didn't see a remark about it being visible. And for the love of god, when did I say burning slowly would negate it burning as hot as the sun ? When the hell did I say that ? Still part of his body though. Oh and i just checked back and guess what ? Throwing Shuriken is actually called Shurikenjutsu, and before you say the term was not used, it was actually. Though it was always translated, however, you can hear the term in episode 141 "truth" is the title of the episode. Sasuke state that Itachi is better at Shurikenjutsu than their father. So yeah, I win. Using weapons is NOT Taijutsu.Quote:
I'm not making things up, that's your job. One technique ? Why would getting his arm back let him use one technique ? And Edo Tensei is a Jutsu. Can you give up now ? Seeing you making the weirdest of excuses is just sad.Quote:
Yes, it is. Being a mystery doesn't make you stronger. Even if we assume that Sarutobi was never said to be stronger, then we have to assume Hashirama was also never said to be stronger than Hiruzen.Quote:
That's getting boring. Your examples are useless, groundless and nothing but mere assumptions. I don't have a proof ? Here, here, here and here. Everything say he has only half of his chakra. I win, it's over.Quote:
False\changed, false\changed, false\changed and false. Your proofs are all changed to suit your argument. Yes, it was claimed. Opening the seal a little will cause a little bit of chakra to leak. Opening the whole seal will cause all of it's chakra to leak. Your arguments are becoming pitiful with every new reply.Quote:
Yes actually, I'm skimming through this argument. Except that he confirmed it to be sealed forever. And you have not a single statement or a source saying he got it back.Quote:
You're making no sense now. You said that he died of of chakra loss when implanting Amaterasu, where was that said ? And assuming that was said, it has nothing to do with my question. Why didn't Itachi suffer the same thing as Nagato and the Kyuubi if he used his life force just like them ?Quote:
They could fight like they normally did and use their techniques like they normally did and plan like they normally did. Their reasoning and goals were erased, but their fighting potential didn't decrease in the slightest.Quote:
Last edited by KingOfNight; February 07, 2013 at 01:43 AM.