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Sharingan is good, but as far as Kishi is concerned its not a requirement to develop awesome-level dodging skills.Quote:
Kabuto catching Shizune's tiny needle projectile.
Kisame dodged that lightning charged pencil while it wasn't even really inside his field of vision.
A Zetsu Clone dodged that same attack, this time at point blank range.
Hidan (who calls himself slow) outmaneuvering Shikamaru's shadows while fighting Asuma.
Sakura and Chyo dancing around in what can be compared to a machine-gun salvo and a shrapnel granade.
Sakura (mostly) avoiding Sasoris ridiculously chaotic AoE attack.
She's a melee fighter and its not like Kabuto danced around her at close range. According to the databook they are both supposed to be in the same speed-class (3.5) and Kabuto kept on kiting her at distance. Thats why the fight started in the city and ended up somewhere in the middle of nowhere. That means she has a weakness that can be exploited, but that still doesn't make her horrible, just more situational. Let her fight against someone like Gai, Kisame, Chouji, Neji... heck even SM Naruto or anyone else who favors melee combat and she'll become a huge threat.Quote:
Summoning Katsuyu is really the only other option she had in that situation, but she probably knew if she summons her slug it will only lead to Orochimaru summoning Manda, which isn't something she would have been to keen of considering the combined effort it required to take down that snake.
Last edited by LnDRash; January 11, 2013 at 08:08 AM.
Unless you all believe that Kabuto in part 1 fought at a level comparable to Edo Madara or his clones ( Kabuto that, at the time, was on the same level as Kakashi, someone who crapped his pants in front of Orochimaru ), the "Kabuto vs Tsunade" argument is, to quote xXan, irrelevant.
Tsunade was out of shape at the time, we saw how she can fight when she in shape, she did way, way, way, way, way, way better than Raikage for example against Madara and, later, his copies with Susano'o.
As LnDRash said, she was out of shape at that time, and Kabuto saying he sucked at Taijutsu isn't to take too literally, since he was his usual modest self and, according to Orochimaru ( so not a random nobody ) he was equal to the strongest Jounin of the Leaf and possibly of all Five Nations ( seriously, no Jounin showed is comparable to Kakashi with the exception of the Gaikage ).
Things like speed, sharingan and things like that are given wayyyy too much importance, Zabuza, a no-Sharingan no Gekkei Kenkai ninja was about to murder Kakashi with little difficulty.
How her fighting abilities are relevant in a thread named "Tsunade Vs Hashirama: Whose medical ninjutsu is better?" its also something I would like to know
We can argue that Kabuto, with only his talents, did what Tsunade could not, generate new cells without shortening his life-span
Last edited by Kid Chameleone; January 11, 2013 at 08:27 AM.
Taijutsu is from everything i know something that refers to fighting with no weapons. Weapon fighting is Kendo from what i know.
I am sure you can't put togeder trowing a dart or knifes to hand to hand combat.
But you can't compare in this case. Sure Raikage has sharingan level of dodging but because he has that Raiton thing. Kabuto has his senses (when going SM). Kabuto in normal mode can't posibly have dodging skills(part 1) on Kakashi's level.Quote:
They where blocked and then as they where falling he grabed 1 of them. Its not showed but i have no idea how he grabed all of them at the same time and then droped some of them. Also we have "click, click" sounds.Quote:
Just a casualy trown pencil in the end.Quote:
Shadows and Asuma...Quote:
Those are not impresive feats... like AT ALL. I can show you Sasuke dodging Raikage and landing blows, doging an attack from Bee that only RAIKAGE could...
Now don't get me wrong can non sharingan user get insane reaction times? Sure as hell look at Minato (used him and not the above). Does that apply to part 1 Kabuto having dodging ability on Kakashi's sharingan level? No way.
Remember even 1 tomoe can do? Sasuke whent from a punching bag to dodging all attacks coming from Naruto after getting 3 tomoe...
Kabuto is obviously not bad in the area but he is not on Kakashi's level in that area. Sharingan does that.
That is her problem and actualy shows how horible she is. Why would she JUMP meters only to miss again and again? I don't think even Naruto would do something as dumb...
Also don't care for the databooks... To say that are bad in those numbers is to give them praise.
Yes she had a weakness tha can be exploited, bad taijutsu and moronic behavior. If you noticed that he can dodge that type of attacks after... i don't know 100 atempts to try something else or stop. Try to get close to him and then punch... No idea what. She is the sannin and the ninja.
SM Naruto would turn her to paste. Gai opening gates and she does not lands 1 blow. He probably can't put her down and she can outlast the gates....Kisame? Tanking everything she can trow at him as he is laughting at her. Super punches are chakra based, Samehada removes that and what is left... Is going to do 0 damage.
Chouji... Err probably going down even if he is huge.
Neji? Stoping the chakra flow... Does it stop the regen? If it does she is toast. Her ability to do super punches would be stoped for sure. Now if her regen goes down to...
Then pull back. Get JMan... Do something. Repeating the same action that was damn evident its not working after a long time its just moronic.Quote:
Why did she do vs Madara that she did not do vs Kabuto? Hit something the size of a building? What that is impresive. Tanking Susano shoots and keep going or doing damage BECAUSE SHE CAN ACTUALY HIT IT its irrelevant to the discussion. If she could land 1 blow on Kabuto he would be in the land of the dead problem is she can't hit shit. She showed nothing vs Madara that would invalidate anythin showed vs Kabuto. She could do that well because she COULD HIT IT and because she can tank all the crep.
No excuse for how bad she did. Not landing 1 blow. Doing the same action that was obviously not working after she tryied some 100 times only to run out of chakra...Quote:
Who said he sucked? He did not say he sucked and i did not say it. Actualy nobody did. He and i quoted him is about him not being that GOOD. That means he is no pro in the area but he is medium and above medium.Quote:
Yes but you see he compensated in other areas. Kakashi's dodging skill is defenetly above Kabuto as he has... Well you know a sharingan and insane base speed (not like Minato but still).Quote:
Also that was more Jman's opinion. I defenetly see Kakashi above Kabuto. Not by much but i do.
So you see you have somebody that by his own admision is not that good at taijutsu, he is HOLDING BACK to take her alive and Tsunade can't land 1 blow on him and keeps punching walls and ground to the point she almost drops from exhaustion...
And how is this relevant? Does Kakashi have better reaction times then Zabuza? If you say yes that was the point... Same for Kabuto. We where dicussing the fact that Kakashi because of his sharingan is ABOVE Kabuto in reaction times/dodging. Kakashi is PROBABLY on Kabuto's level of reaction times and dodge when he has his sharingan covered. With it he is defenetly above and nicely. As i said above Sasuke whent from a punching bag to dodge ALL of Naruto's attacks when going from 2 tomoe to 3 (so only 1 tomoe)... You can imagine what sharingan and no sharingan can do.Quote:
Well over here you got me. No idea how we got here.Quote:
Last edited by xXan; January 11, 2013 at 08:29 AM.
honestly you'd think tsunade would be a female chuck norris being a senju and uzumaki and not to mention related to the first, but oh well....
If you check out weapon users (for example Kisame, Asuma, Hidan, Zabuza etc.) you'll notice they all have high Taijutsu stats.
Tsunade isn't moving at superhuman speeds though, so why is this relevant? If some people can easily dodge or even catch fast moving projectiles, it shouldn't come as a surprise when such a person can dodge punches from another person that moves at comparable speed all day long when his whole focus goes towards dodging those blows and nothing else.Quote:
The way I see it he took out his curved Kunai and deflected those needles Jedi-Style and then catched the last one in his hand to take a look at it and get some hints at Shizune's abilities.Quote:
Those feats are impressive enough for what we are talking about: ninjas moving at "regular" ninja speeds. People like Raikage or Bee are extremely rare exception and having reflexes/speeds to dodge their attacks is a complete waste when fighting the other 99.9% of the ninja population.Quote:
And does he need to? Like I said, peak level human reflexes and perception are enough to fight most of the ninja population, including Akatsuki level individuals, which are pretty damn high in the food-chain.Quote:
Or she just underestimated how out of shape she was. Orochimaru was in visibly bad condition and Tsunade knew completely nothing about Kabuto, so maybe she was just counting on outlasting their stamina, which in turn came back to bite her.Quote:
We don't even know how many craters there are, we have no idea how much time passed and how often she tried to jump them. Maybe she got more tired from running then anything else. Maybe she even tried something else or she tried to retreat, only to be stoped by thrown projectiles or who knows what. That whole chasing/dodging part was completely off-panel. We can't really tell what exactly happened just like the time when J-Man lost his arm and continued fighting pain until he got at least animal realm.
In the end does it even matter? The databook stats are not reliable source of information..Quote:
I remember the databook even stating Tenten is as smart as Sasuke...
Seriously do you see Tenten anywhere close to Kabuto in taijutsu? He would eat her alive.
You can look at any MA in real life. I asure you they move at equal speeds (more or less) but even 1 is going to focus only on dodging the other is going to hit him... Then in the end it comes down to Tsunade's intelect doing the same thing over and over and failing...Quote:
Its like, after 300 punches(senju so insane chakra and stamina).
Tsunade: Hmm i could not hit him after 300 hits... I keep hitting the ground... Perhaps i should change tactics... Neah why bother let's try 300 more and see what happends...
She is WORSE then NARUTO. After 1 swing and miss he found a way to hit Kabuto.... Seriously...
That is what i was getting at to. I belived you where refering that he stoped the needle as it was going his way like Superman to a bullet.Quote:
Doing the above is not that impresive.
What is this relevant to? We where debating if Kakashi has above dodging ability then Kabuto. We were debating what a sharingan can do and most defenetly puts Kakashi above Kabuto.Quote:
The debate was with the other guy about how Kakashi can dodge her all day better then Kabuto (sharingan, way better actualy) and then Kamui her head off at any point... I would like to see her grow a new one... Hell he can warp her entire body instantly (like he did to Naruto's clone).
We where debating something else? I really lost track. The other guy did not even know about the prediction trick and had to link pages from part 1...
Again comparing Kabuto and Kakashi and Kakashi most defenetly is above his league in that area. Can people reach to a level that he would cope with a sharingan user? Sure as hell... Can Kakashi dodge her all day way better then Kabuto, sure as hell.Quote:
She was a senju. We all know what that means about chakra and stamina. I don't care what she underestimated if Naruto figured something out after 1 hit and miss. Her punching the ground for some 300 times and then deciding its a good idea to keep at it... Its dumb to say the least.Quote:
Also it was off panels but going by the craters and how she was still going at him with nothing but her punches and any other vizible indication (like damage done to the area, cloaches, skin, what they said in the dialogue and so on) that she changed anything... Then look vs Madara... Did she used anything else vs Madara? Neah.. That was she does. Going boom boom.
JMan lost his arm to a missile, 99% sure on that. It was a missile or a beam attack but beam attacks don't go boom.
In the end nobody in this entire manga was so bad in a fight to not be able to land 1 blow on his enemy to the point he whent close to out of chakra. This is ignoring 1 shoots like Itachi with genjutsu.
Last edited by xXan; January 11, 2013 at 10:09 AM.
Wasn't this a thread comparing Hashirama and Tsunade, better yet, their medical ninjutsu? This is getting seriously off topic... I agree that Tsunade doesn't really live up kage or sannin level - apart from packing impressive
boobs, punches and medical skills. But fighting abilities is too
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/576/14 but it'll probably jump back off topic again
Seriously guys, stop talking about Tsunade's fighting abilities, open another thread if you want to discuss it.
Madara aknowledged it was the same power Hashirama had.
Tsunade was being understimated in this thread.
So, kishi, please show us the true power of tsunade, so that her haterz gonna stop on understimating her.
If jiraiya/frog and orochimaru/snake are sages, should tsunad/slug is a sage too? Damn. That would be awesome.
so who has better healing techniques, the guy who can do it whenever, however much he wants or someone who has a time limit on her ability. they are the same but one is clearly better at it, thats why he was able to fight madara and won. she got split in half fighting 5 kages, now i know you'll say edo tensei, infinite chakra blah blah but honestly hashirama is still said to be the strongest shinobi so if madara fought him in a fight to the death he had to of done some serious damage and we know hashirama wasnt that much stronger than him if he was it wouldnt have been a fight to the death.
anywho with that being said hashirama fought madara 1v1, so he'd clearly sustain more damage as he is the sole target and not 5 of them
Well when it comes to self healing its defenetly Hashirama... When it comes to anything else its clearly Tsunade... She healed or whatever the ENTIRE VILAGE before falling in that coma... She has healing ability to fix the mind of Kakashi and Sasuke... Hashirama aparently was good at healing his own self.
So self healing is Hashirama by a small margine... I say that because Tsunade can store chakra and use it when in need so it adds to her own supply of chakra. Hashirama does have insane chakra capacity but Tsunade as a senju should be close... Then the fact that it shortens her lifespan... Its not that relevant when you need to protect the vilage. You lose a few years but you get the job done. They are not that good in old age anyway... A new hokage would be found when in need. So as a ninja this is close to irrelevant. So Tsunade and Hashirama in self healing are close enough.
Healing others... Tsunade by a mile.
So in the end the winner of this topic is defenetly Tsunade.
Last edited by xXan; January 14, 2013 at 06:54 AM.