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kishi need to be consistent with naruto portrayal, if narutos an idiot make him an idiot, if hes a genius make him a genius. i hate having naruto get built up in his fights just to have him go back to being an idiot and relying on power ups right after. he should be past that already
betrayed is actually a perfect word. kishi made the story out in part 1 to be about strategy not just mega jutsu, where ninjas won with smarts not just giant jutsu and power ups. its like hes trying to make the manga like dbz, except theres plot holes everywhere and hashirama cells were used to cover them up.
kishi shouldve stuck to the theme of part 1 and not switched up his style, i think thats what really damaged the manga, people liked to seeing ninjas being ninjas and the strategies. he didnt need to add these super jutsu and mega power ups, some feel forced and outta place like hashirama cells(cough, cough)
the originality of naruto has faded, i feel like kishi got lazy otherwise hashirama cells wouldnt be the solution to the worlds problems
Last edited by Kid Chameleone; February 01, 2013 at 12:44 AM.
When he worked hard after the Timeskip?
FRS training, Sage Mode training ( in between that completing FRS working on it every night ), Kyuubi Chakra mode training.
Naruto returning from the training with Jiraiya weak as hell is plot:
Kishi needed for Sasuke to widen the gap as it was at the beginning to part 1, otherwise it would be kinda anticlimatic if, say, Naruto would just lolpunch him when he tried to blitz him, don't you think? In fact after that Naruto's growth skyrocketed, passing from chunin to above Kage level in, what, 2 months?
Jiraiya could just as easily teach him the trick of KB and basically teach him a lot of his jutsus.
I respect your opinion but I don't agree with it, because its an opinion that's set on the first chapter of the manga and ignores the other chapters after it.
Naruto isn't a genius, isn't talented, but he thrives when he has something to do to protect his friends, or when he's aknowledged by someone.
Remember the Gaara fight? With inferior means, Naruto destroyed the same opponent Sasuke almost died to cut off an arm of Sand.
Why? Because he didn't fought for himself, but for Sasuke and Sakura, and his village.
That's the whole point, bonds make Naruto stronger. Guess what? Every major power-up is a result of a bond:
FRS to catch up to Sasuke and save him from Orochimaru, Sage Mode to avenge Jiraiya and protect the leaf, Bijuu Mode from his bond with Kyuubi.
And seeing as he's the main character, he can't remain the underdog forever.
Rest assured though he will be against Sasuke
naruto shouldnt have got sage mode imho, its too much.naruto shouldve of surpassed jiraya by beatin gpain not becoming the sage in a month when jiraya spent a lifetime working on it and still didnt finish and i hate the fact that hes an uzumaki is a cover up, it still shouldve taken years regardless. i think he shouldve got the initial fox form when facing pain and then finished it with obito. him and the fox becoming bffgs over 30 chapters is rushed, but if it was over like 200 its makes a lot more sense as hes seeing narutos struggle and acutally using his powers for good instead of evil like other nins in the past. its better than him hating naruto to his very core and then having them give each other props 30 chapters later.
we need consistency
Last edited by Kid Chameleone; February 01, 2013 at 12:33 PM.
At the beginning though Sasuke could run circles around Naruto, there was that much difference. Sasuke is also what motivated Naruto to be stronger, filling that huge gap was a strong incentive.
2 seconds training? FRS training would take, if we count how much time Naruto saved with KB probably years, Sage Mode he trained with clones again, and even then he seemed to have a natural knack at it.
Kyuubi modes were a given since chapter 1, it would be beyond dumb to believe that Naruto wouldn't have mastered Kyuubi's chakra. I agree with you on Bijuu mode, with Chakra Mode he still needed to wrestle Kyuubi, and that is more than any character can say for himself when obtaining power.
In Naruto's situation, even with Hachibi's help, there are very few that could've done the same thing, Hashirama and Madara thanks to their gekkei kenkais and no one else.
Strategy has never been a part of Naruto. The only time Naruto has used strategy was when he and Sasuke teamed up to free Kakashi from Zabuza's water prison. Aside from the Ino-Shila-Cho formation the other "strategies" used are one-on-one fights where the "strategy" was to exploit something that the other opponent failed to realize. Call it strategy or the dumbing-down of opponents. Take your pick.Quote:
How many times does Kakashi kill an opponent with a kunai vs. a raikiri? Um, like never to like every attack. "Being ninja" is great for gennin and lower-tier chuunin who are essentially powerless, but the big boys and girls used ninjustu-and nothing but ninjutsu. Even the sanctosanct Part 1 had the big dogs doing nothing but spamming ninjutsu which is kind of funny that people are complaining about it now. Sure, the collateral dmamage is greater but that is partly due to the characters involved and the theatrics due to the approaching climax of the story.Quote:
And this is the pitfall that so many people fall into. What IS the originality of Naruto. Naruto hasn't changed much at all aside from the storytelling aspect from Part 1 to Part 2. It went from character-based storylelling to a plot-driven storytelling. The only that does change are peoples perception of what Naruto is, and Kishi can't do anything about thatQuote:
Granted, the introduction of Senjuu power was clumisly handled by Kishi as Harashima DNA. If it had been integrated into the storyline earlier like the powers of the Uchiha were I think people wouldn't think twice about it. To make the Jyuubi work you need both Uchiiha and Senjuu power. Since there aren't any Senjuus aligned with Madara weird devices like what we're seeing are being imployed. It could have been done better but it's not catastrophic. IMO.
Unnecessary power ups are part of generic action manga. Naruto is a generic action manga. There will be unnecessary power ups.
Naruto was never that original. At it's best it was an above average action manga, nothing more. Try Homunculus if you want something original (and gruesome). Or, if the thought of trephination makes you squeamish, Ressentiment is a good, orginal manga to try. Nothing about Naruto though is remotely original.Quote:
Last edited by Kaiten; February 02, 2013 at 01:10 AM.
@ uchiha blood, brill, m3j
i mean hes a genius at hard work and when he applies himself. your telling me he can learn rasengan and frs in like 2 months when he applies himself but cant learn anything else? both are a and s rank jutsu... if he can throw himself into something, learn and finish a technique that the fourth spent 3 years developing and never truly completed is fucking amazing. so how about making him go train some more? he can grasp physical things right away so why not do what bleach is doing and have him fight a stronger enemy during training arcs so he constantly improves? im sure battling nin like kakashi and yamato would provide good experience and would boost his skills tremendously. they just have to beat the information into him like before and hes proven it can be done. he summoned gamabunta when pushed to the edge and finished rasengan over a bet so he should be capable of so much more. he needs to apply himself in other aspects and push himself to his limits
When neji first showed the hyuuga skills that wasnt original?
shikimarus strategies are never original?
all the fuckin bloodlines arent original?
wtf are you saying? part 1 was ALL ORIGINALITY. how dare you say naruto wasnt an original manga, now it isnt that much but at 1 point it was the best, every character was different and had different things that we never saw in other mangas. tell me another manga wheres theres a shkimaru. name one other show that has bloondlines and clans . wtf. not original. the idea of naruto was original, kishi is just not that experienced of a writer otherwise he wouldnt have used hashirama cells for everything. naruto part 1 was all heart. naruto part 2 is dbz. up until sasuke beat itachi there were barely 2 characters that were alike, everyone was pretty unique, then ms, susanno, frs and major spamming. the spamming made naruto not original, the lose of hand seals, taijutsu and original ninjustu also helped it lose its magic glow. naruto is and always will be an amazing concept and can be taken in many directions. its just kishis writing experience man, like ive seen better theories on here than what we've been seeing in the manga. not his fault, kishi is lacking in originality his story is not. the imagination that can be applied to a manga like naruto is near limitless which is why we have so many theories on abilities and how they work and such. if it was just like dbz it would be strict energy manipulation, but naruto is a manga where you can create jutsu and special abilities through hard work and creativity, you can do whatever you want in a manga like naruto and thats why its sick. people are always gonna come up with their own jutsu and own clans so to say naruto isnt original is an onxymoron ive come up with countless jutsu in my head, the reason im still here is because i day dream of the possibilities of the manga. im just pissed at all the spamming, it needs to stop. same with hashirama cells.
narutos not original? pfft, telll that to the 50 justu and the space justu clan ive created in my head. ninpo, supernova no jutsu. get at me bro lmfao
Last edited by Kid Chameleone; February 02, 2013 at 08:41 AM.
Let's not forget he was rubbish at the Kuchiyose, a C rank jutsu, wasting an entire month to learn it
---------- Post added at 07:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:38 AM ----------
Sorry, just too lazy to prepare an elegant algorithm
---------- Post added at 08:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:47 AM ----------
he does need to improve his skills man like honestly if he ever cam at me with a rasengan id cut his arms off or grab his wrist lmfao. its like no ones thought to counter the moves hes been spamming for 4 years
Last edited by Kid Chameleone; February 02, 2013 at 08:51 AM.
I've lost track of the inexplicable twists a long time ago, so, I guess I'm fine either way
Naruto is not a genius at hard work. But, it's not that he CAN'T learn anything else, it's that he doesn't WANT to. Naruto said it himself, he hates studying and being in the library when Sakura told him he should study ninjutsu. He learned rasengan and FRS in short time because he had to and wanted to. He learned kage bunshin within a day because he wanted to in order to graduate. Out of those, I think kuchiyose no jutsu is the only thing he can't do without help even now. But he seems to lack chakra control and possibly fears using up too much chakra, ironically enough.Quote:
The keyword in your sentence is applies. Naruto applied himself, so he was able to learn rasengan, FRS, and the such. But he didn't apply himself out of that, hence why his arsenal is limiting.
Which sucks because Naruto has so much potential. With precise chakra control, Naruto could take on countless of enemies (provided he survives) with his chakra pool and the Kyuubi's chakra pool.
I mean, look at Part I Naruto. He used tajuu kage bunshin a lot, which were usually useless. In Part II, he used tajuu kage bunshin in like, only one or two fights, which ultimately helped him. The rest, he used less than five clones, which were far more effective than tajuu kage bunshin in Part I. Kishi showed that kind of growth and continued, resulting in epic Naruto when Pain invaded and Kumo interfered in Naruto and Sakura's discussion with Sai. Then, Kishi had him faint and act stupid. Naruto isn't 100% original, but it's not 0% original either.
I mean, Naruto is one of the few shounen action character that's dynamic. Or was dynamic, anyway. Goku was solely about fighting, Luffy's about becoming pirate king while being all nakama ftw, Ichigo just wants to protect his friends. But Naruto wanted to be hokage to be recognized, then he wanted power to protect his friends. Hell, we learned that he still harbored anger and mistrust towards his village even after being accepted by them. Though now, he's one dimensional with "PEACE PEACE PEACE PROTECT MY CHUMS PEACE!"
But still, naruto had great growth mentally as well, like how I guess Luffy and to some degree Ichigo did.
i agree with you there, naruto as a manga isnt 100% nothing is but still the ideas and the potential behind it are unlimited. and i also agree with you on naruto being too one dimensional and i hate the fact that he hates studying or is stupd doesnt excuse the fact that he needs to learn. he likes learning new jutsu, when jiraya said he was gonna teach him rasengan and when kakashi taught him frs he seemed willing to learn, what happened to that drive? hes shown willingness to learn, although he may not like studying why not sugar coat it or hype it up like kakashi did? my main problem with the manga today,isnt the hashirama cells, or the spamming its naruto as a main character. he has the biggest potential, best offense and doesnt use it or look into his background.
trains with jiraya for 3 years, little development
finds out he has the best battle element, never uses it in battle
finds out his clan has sealing jutsu and a rich history dating back to the sage, never looks into it(didnt have much time tho lol but still how come he never did a background check before? and if the villages were so close you'd think he'd know or heard of them...)
the problem with naruto is that he isnt stupid, hes ignorant. stupid people have a willingness to learn and explore when needed or find something interesting, naruto is ignorant and doesnt want to try new things which is why hes alwas gonna be one dimensional.
Last edited by Kid Chameleone; February 02, 2013 at 06:51 PM.