Natural order is reinstablished, Naruto gets bashed by Sasuke fans
@Kid Chameleone, I'll probably hit you with a wall of text.
-Naruto vs Pein: they didn't attack him one by one, they simply went on the defensive while Deva regained his powers, and the only Path that could pose a threat to a Sage Mode user was the only one that attacked, Animal Realm.
Let's just resume it, will you?
- Preta Path: Attacked Naruto, got one-shotted
- Human Realm: totally useless in a direct fight
- Asura Realm: got one-shotted beforehand
- Animal Path: attacked Naruto
- Deva Path: coincidentally regaining his power a moment before being hit by FRS
- Hell Realm: totally useless in a direct fight and too important to be lost
-Naruto & Bee vs 6 Jinchuurikis: your reason is "NO WAY NARUTO CAN'T WIN", provide a reasonable motive for it
-Naruto vs Kyuubi: lol this proves just how irrational your hate is.
Kyuubi wasn't brought down by KB + Rasengan, was brought down by, in order, A FRS, 100 clones clad with Nature energy empowered Oodama Rasengans, another FRS to add to the first that initially blocked Kyuubi's movements.
In total, 3 FRS and 100 Oodama Rasengans. And even then it only let Naruto stole a part of Kyuubi's chakra
this is rich.Quote:
Being an Uzumaki or son of Yondaime are power ups now I guess fodders like Fugaku are even better, since they descend directly from Rikudou Sennin
Also lol at him reaching power ups without effort ( hello? Uchiha and their Sharingan having 294785903875759 free powers called. Hello? Hashirama called. Hello? Kabuto and his 284748 milkshake power up called ), no power up was achieved without effort bar Bijuu Mode, and that was after 570 chapters.
Also no one has the same power?
Lord Madara and Tobito has just as much if not much more, having Sharingan, Rin'negan, Mokuton and control over Juubi.
Base stat are shit?Quote:
No Kyuubi Naruto did, in order:
-Forced Gaara to use his Bijuu Mode
-Tied with Kabuto
-Wounded Kyuubi strongly enough to steal his chakra
-Beat 3rd Raikage
Yeah, he's incredibly incompetent. So incompetent that, even without using Kyuubi powers, he still has more wins under his belt than most characters.
Same characters that, without their golden ability, would be dead now
Of the ones you linked, only Naruto vs Kakuzu ended that wayQuote:
-With the Itachi clone, the switch was made by Kakashi
-With Pein it wasn't a switch, but him using clones as a rocket launcher
-With Kyuubi, he used clones to overpower him
-With Obito, it was a combined strategy made by him and Kakashi
^ All the above have different endings, even if they end always with a rasengan, true
Naruto is that kind of manga, deal with it, no character has that kind of versatility you want, bar Madara and maybe Kakashi
Read the last... How many there were... 100+ chapters, where Naruto kinda fights to save the world and his friends, talking about the Sauce only with Itachi.Quote:
His speeches are Sasuke-free since a lot of time
Take it with Kishi, he still showed pretty ingenious strategies in this war, except against Nagato.Quote:
But when Naruto is dumbed down its because he's dumb, when those against Naruto don't show an IQ of 2048 is because Naruto is main character
*coughcough* Karin *coughcough* Tobi *coughcough* Taka *coughcough* Orochimaru *coughcough* Itachi *coughcough*Quote:
The Sasuke hate got explained pretty well by Delbi above ^Quote:
The Naruto hate comes from:
10% of people hating Naruto because he's a dumb happy guy
50% comes from Sasuke fans eating their liver in jealousy because Naruto gets stronger than their favourite character
20% comes from people genuinely unhappy with the story
20% comes with people going with the flow of the chapters, now we see Naruto hate because the chapter sucks just like, during the Kabuto vs Uchiha bros fight, there was Sasuke hate because he took part of a dumb fight with the role of the damsel in distress
tl;dr you are blinded by your hate of Naruto and can't see things by what they are, and while you make some valid post, most of it are just things you confused in your hate, not legit reasons as to why Naruto is a broken main character and where Sasuke's hate come from.
Your post lacks objectivity, which is a focal point in proving one's point.
If you are horribly biased towards the characters you are discussing, you'll just convey your hate, not your intended message
And again, you fail to understand Sasuke if you think he is "weak minded". The guy keeps chugging along on willpower despite his world continually being shattered. If he was "weak-minded' he would have curled up into a ball the day his brother killed his family. Instead, he trained himself everyday, and kept training and looking for power until he confronted his brother, and then did so with no fear until he was nearly killed. Even with no chakra left he didn't give up until he was literally backed into a corner.
You also say he is easily manipulated, and yet he's the one been doing the manipulating. He tricked Konoha, tricked Orochimaru (who is no his subordinate) tricked Obito. Make no mistake, Sasuke plays games with those he is with to his own ends and his own ends alone. He is patient, and knows the right time to strike, and is likewise conscious of his own short comings (he admitted he could not defeat Orochimaru unless he was sick).
And not to say anything, but Lebron has played the sore loser card more than most. Sasuke is no inbred, and the fact that Lebron has more natural talent than nearly any human beng on the planet kind of goes against his "winner" mentality. Michael Jordan has a winners mentality because he hated losing more than he loved winning. Lebron isn't like that lol.
A tennis lover will always like more Federed than Nadal, because Federer is everything, while Nadal is 70% body, 20% left arm, 10% skill. This doesn't change the fact that Nadal proved to be better in direct confrontation, and this fuels hate, imo, even more which kinda relates to this topic:
Sasuke is like Federer and Nadal all mixed into one, meaning incredible skills and "unfair" great advantages
---------- Post added at 09:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 AM ----------
Last edited by Delbi; January 22, 2013 at 09:33 AM.
I'll apologize for insulting your intelligence by telling you your interpretation was juvenile. I still stand by everything else I said, however. Also, notice how I never responded to your response. Maybe, somehow, I saw and understood some of the points you made. Or perhaps I was just waiting for another chance to "gank" you. You decide.
Lastly, I'll address the fanboy part, the part I least want to address, because I'm way too old for that:
Trying to defend the main character doesn't always necessarily equate to "fanboyism".
I merely offered my own interpretation of Naruto's character, though admittedly maybe harshly shutting you down in the process (probably because the tone of your posts is extremely frustrated). Like someone else said, it all really is just a matter of opinion, so we all can benefit from choosing our words carefully.
In the future, however, if you want someone to take you seriously, try thinking about what you're writing and how it sounds to people who are reading it. Uchiha_Blood said it pretty well, I think.
Naruto is the main character who has gone from being hated by most everyone to being loved by the entire village. The way he fights is simple, yes, but it is unique to him, and I believe changing that changes how we'd perceive him as well. .
That is all.
Last edited by Exodi; January 22, 2013 at 09:34 AM.
Rinnegan is the true broken character. Just look at Madara and Nagato - they had to be tweaked to avoid owning the enemies outright. The Rinnegan can own Sasuke and Naruto simply with chakra absorption, to name one out of many ways. It took Kabuto screwing Nagato up and rule of Edo Tensei for Itachi to save Naruto and Bee from Nagato, and Madara is using Mokuton for the lulz.
Since Naruto and Sasuke's fighting style uses up tons of chakra, like Susano'o and Kyuubi's chakra, they'd get owned with Rinnegan.
Sasuke is hated because people don't like how good he is. They like accusing him of getting free powerups or asspulls because they like Naruto over Sasuke. Pretty sure you can't accuse Sasuke of gettin powerups on platter or powerups without a cost or asspulls without accusing Naruto as well. And if you do, it just shows how biased you are, and that your posts aren't wholly valid.
This thread....all I see is pure flaming...
IMO, I like Naruto a lot. His ability to be Epic has proven second to none in this manga.
The only thing I dislike about his character is his tree hugging forever opportunistic side. Although that has changed recently with the death of Neji much to my liking.
Other than that, his stupidity, character regression, and childishness are all thanks to Kishi destroying his and most of these characters. I don't hate Naruto for that, but Kishi for being such a shitty writer and butchering characters like Naruto, Sakura and Danzou.
Last edited by Delbi; January 22, 2013 at 09:50 AM.
and back then people didn't bash on Naruto so much .... some people ( and myself ) had problem with some issue like reviving konoha ninja and etc .... but after kage summit and Kishi new style ( trying to make manga super epic with jesus no jutsu , big no jutsu , TNJ , Edo tenssi and etc ... ) more people come and criticism Naruto manga ....
and honestly , I didn't hate Naruto and saw him as acceptable main character till kage summit arc but after that kishi turned him to Jesus and Naruto saying big things without thinking about it , then I hate him . ....
and about Sasuke .... well he was better character till the end of kage summit arc .... after that he wasn't in manga and I really don't like his new style .... he rushing to his end without having a plane for after his revenge mission .... and Susanoo is lame ....
Kishi turned Sasuke to 2nd Itachi ....
Last edited by shafagh; January 22, 2013 at 10:11 AM.
Sasuke getting free powerups is subjective, based on what one thinks about him. You can't say the same with Naruto, considering the Kyuubi and all. the thing is, people bring up Sasuke gettin free powerups and asspulls too much, but they don't complain about Naruto getting the same.
Either way, Delibi summed up my feelings about Naruto. Although Naruto's not my favorite character, he's the reason why I started reading and loved this manga. Naruto himself was epic in Part I, and I think Kishi added dimension when he had Naruto admit to Hinata that Naruto was all talk, and that he actually felt like a failure. Then you had Naruto be so epic against Pain, so serious and smart, which Kishi continued against Kumo. And then he started destroying that by making Naruto faint, making him think he was on a mission to check penises or vaginas, and have him rely mainly on Kyuubi's power instead of strategize and plan like he used to.
Naruto was never broken in my opinion until he and Kyuubi became butt buddies because he could still get beaten. Yeah, he won nearly all of his matches, but that's by outsmarting his enemies and not giving up. Those two reasons are why I love more of Naruto's fights than any other characters'. His fight against Kiba, Neji, Gaara, Pain, and even Zabuza were awesome. He wasn't powerful enough to defeat them, nor did he need to be. You had Naruto be a clever little fox who didn't give up and came up with ways to win. That's the Naruto I love, that's the manga I love. Not this Susano'o/Kyuubi bullshit and Mokuton spammage crap. Hell, Sasuke had great fights too until he gained Mangekyo.
The truth is, both Naruto and Sasuke have given freebies, and they have both worked for power. This has happened with nearly every character in the manga, it just so happens that the powers Naruto and Sasuke get for free or work for far exceed those of everyone else.
guys im not flaming, i dont hate naruto i like him as a character i just think he could be developed better. no ones even reading and comprehending what i said or what i posted. i didnt say i hate naruto and i didnt say i prefered sasuke either. my fav character WAS neji
this is a thread about why i think naruto is broken, hes the main character and should be developed better and reach his full potential not run on power ups and kyuubi chakra.
when it comes down to it naruto and sasuke are the same, both have been saved countless times. naruto has kyuubi, sasuke got his ass saved by karin soo many times and they both pretty much have the same number of power ups susanoo, sharigan, sage mode, kyuubi etc. I DID NOT SAY I LIKE SASUKE MORE OR SASUKE WAS A BETTER CHARACTER stop putting words in my mouth. i simply said SASUKE DOES THE THINGS NARUTO IS SUPPOSED TO.
when it comes down to it fights sasukes are usually more interesting. he always wins his fights with a new move or some crazy strategy but we never see naruto doing that its always rasengan, rasengan sage mode kyuubi rasengan and i know sasuke has been spamming amateratsu and susanoo lately but he fought danzou and all kages, same for naruto hes spamming sage mode and kyuubi in the war and all his fights.
naruto and sasuke are pretty much the same when it comes to build and power, they are both built op but when you compare how the two use those powers sasuke is leauges above naruto. as i said i want naruto TO USE HIS FULL POTENTIAL, no sage mode or kyuubi mode i wanna see some wind chakra and maybe a new strategy other than his bait and switch rasengan. you guys are seeing this as an attack and are looking at it from one objective view, yes this thread is about how naruto could use improvement, it may have come off as flaming and bashing but if you read my points i do have legit theories and aspects where naruto can improve. if sasuke was fucking up as much as naruto there would be one for him too, but kishi portrays him like hes the main character.
so your sasying it wouldnt see nice to see naruto come up with a strategy other than the bait and switch?
it wouldnt be nice to see a new jutsu come from him?
it wouldnt be nice to see him stand on his own 2 feet?
it wouldnt be nice to see some maturity and have him forget about sasuke and let him do as he pleases instead of fixating the entire story around him?
i just stated the things i wanted to see, there are thins i wanna see from every character but this is about naruto cause hes the main.
do you want me to bitch about sasuke?
sharigan is super op
constant use of susanno
has seemingly never ending chakra(itachi could only use ms 3 times a day -.-)
amateratsu control so he can fire it like a disc from a distance and use it as a shield so hes untouchable
every character has their flaws, i wanna see improvement from naruto cause honestly hes the only person who needs it right now. no one else in the manga is that under developed and that strong at the same time.
its as kakashi said in part 1 ''a pro with a rock can beat a rookie with a knife''. well naruto is that rookie with a knife, he hasnt fully mastered any of his powers completely. wind chakra , sage mode, kyuubi mode like he cant even do rasengan with one hand he doesnt need to be goku but it would be nice to see him have some strong points in his fighting style cause he has none except unpredictability. look at other characters
kakashi: vast jutsu, speed, smarts, great senses and reflexes
sasuke: lightning and fire jutsu, speed, strategy, reflexes
shikimaru: strategies on the spot, shadow binding, scanning and analyzing an opponent in moments
sakura: healing, super strength, smarts( analyzed tobis jutsu way before anyone else)
every character has a uniqueness to theyre style and something that sets them apart, naruto has things that make him an individual too
wind chakra, vast chakra reserve, good reflexes, stamina, fast regeneration
and yet he doesnt bank or capitalize on any of them! what im saying is he needs to work on his base skills like everyone else or atleast master a skill before he sets out because every fight is won by power and not uniqueness or strategy, its always rasengan or a variation. the point im trying to get at is why give him all these power ups if he doesnt know how to use them fully or properly? why be so quick to give him another ability hes not gonna use? he doesnt really have flaws in his battle style but he s not weak but hes not that strong either. take away kyuubi and sage mode and hes a sitting duck
why cant he improve all his base stats and master something fully like other characters do before rushing into a fight simply to get a power up? no other character get leniency like naruto, its like i said if it was anyone other than naruto hed be killed 5 times over so why not give him excuses and have him bust his ass and work like everyone else? i know his powers dont come easy but for the amount of power he gets compared to the time he puts in is ridiculous. it took him like 10 chapters to get kyuubi mode and sage mode he shouldve been working on those when he left with jiraiya( i know they practiced kyuubi but it got them no where and was a waste of time if naruto were just gonna become best friends like that and i know you cant predict something like that but still jiraiya failed to train naruto properly. instead of focusing on kyuubi chakra so he can fight akatsuki he shouldve had naruto work on his own skills so when he does use the chakra and when its time to face the kyuubi he'll already be a powerhouse.
im just tired of repetition and i want something new from the character thats not bashing, if anything im a loyal fan caus i can admit where the chaacter needs work and improvement and not blindly accept everything. the point of the thread is point out narutos flaws so we can discuss where they can be fixed or need improvement. if you really think im trying to bash the manga than dont bother posting because ive already stated many times and if your READ my posts youd see i dont hate the character, just the was hes portrayed
To add to what I said, Naruto didn't even have to be in fights to be awesome. The way he yelled at Inari was epic and so brutally honest. When he talked to Neji about destiny, it was awesome. When Gaara was pummeling Naruto, and Naruto refused to run or back away, that was awesome.
Naruto fainting when he learned Sasuke's fate was death was NOT awesome. Naruto being one-track mind is NOT awesome. Naruto repeating the same shit is not awesome.
I mean, Naruto can easily be a great character. He was complex, and he evolved over time, since the beginning of manga. Then he started to devolve. Sasuke however, improved. Instead of just being all REVENGE REVENGE, he's actually questioning his path. He wasn't just one-track mind back when he wanted revenge against Itachi, he refused to kill anyone not associated with Itachi.