As the title says, this concerns Naruto. I am sorry I am creating only thread on him, but I think you guys can understand - almost the last 20 chapters was about him alone. Now, let get going.
I think that Naruto is getting closed to SO6P, and I will say why by starting with fresh intel, then bolster my argument with some past intels.
1. Based on Mangastream/Mangahere translation, Naruto can sustain link with many shinobi
Here is the link, and I couldn't open mangapanda on my computer.
Though, there might be a problem in the translation, the image itself conveys the intel. We see Kyuubi chakra as one big source, and Naruto making many links that are represent as copies of Naruto. Then he connect these link to shinobis of the SA. During the connection, Naruto touch them (some people said he only passes near them).
In his comments, Kyuubi stated that Naruto is sustaining the links. This means literally to keep the link on, which requires Naruto to send continually chakra to the people he connect to. Unlike Nagato and Madara, Naruto does not need black rod. Rather, he does it with his mind - which is represented by the inner Naruto who is standing by Kyuubi in a meditation form.
Though I know many will think I am wrong, let go back to the past. So, let look at these.
a. Evidence that Rinnegan is not needed to use Gedo Mazou.
b. Evidence that Rinnegan is not needed to use six path techniques.
In (a.) we see that only Senju DNA is Senju power is needed to control Gedo Mazou. Can we assume that Uchiha power is needed? I don't know. However, given it is a summoning, I think Senju power should be enough to summon it, then Madara's will should help to control it by funneling chakra into it. I think that is how Madara was controlling it because one of the black rod was implanted in it.
In (b.), we see that Rinnegan is not needed to use Six path techniques. This make sense because Obito learnt it from Madara, and both of them did not have Rinnegan. However, Madara implied that his will was needed. Is it because Madara was Uchiha, or was it because he had Hashimara's power? ( not also that Kabuto compared Hashimara to Rikudo).
We also know that in order to use six paths techs, the user need to be able to send his chakra into someone. Until now, Nagato and Obito have been using Madara's will. From chapter 617, I think Naruto's will can also send chakra into other people after creating a link with them by touching them.
2. Chapter 617 implicitly foreshadows that Naruto will master the five elemental chakra affinities (maybe has already mastered it)
Some people would avoid this topic, but I have discussed it long on other forums. So let look at this image.
First, check the definition of adept from dictionary.com below:
So Kyuubi said that Naruto has become so skilled that he can mold his chakra to match the unique trait of each individual. My interpretation is that the word unique traits would be synonyms of DNA. However, in the context of chakra, I will say that it is the uniqueness of their chakra. This mean if the chakra is lightning based, Naruto can make a lightning chakra. If it has initially earth element, Naruto can make earth element chakra, and so on.Quote:
While this seems intriguing, I can accept it because Kakashi said that a ninja at a jouning level can create new affinity. Thus Kyuubi's statement is consistent with my analysis. Naruto has become skilled beyond regular jounin in terms of chakra manipulation. Thus he can create new affinity. This also is consistent with the term "conversion" used in chapter 616.
3. Intel from older chapters.
c. Kyuubi foreshadowed that Naruto will have six path techniques
The word Rikudo here means six paths. The seal is a six path techniques. Notice that in Naruto's consciousness, Naruto does it by creating a lock with his mind. I brought this fact because in Naruto's mind, he can only do something if and only if he knows how to do that actually. Rasengan are same in his mind, and kage bushin is the same.
d. Naruto forshadowed to be connected to SO6P
So these are my opinions on Naruto's evolution. I would like to add more, but I will wait for comments.
Last edited by so6pww; March 30, 2013 at 12:09 PM.
a) You cannot summon the Mazou without the Rinnegan. Controlling it with Senju DNA Obito had and summoning it are different things. We don't need an assumption. Recall the page Zetsu shows Nagato to Obito. Nagato was introduced as the only person besides Madara to be able to summon the Gedo Mazou.
b) Don't really understand the reasoning here. Without the Rinnegan, you cannot use the Six Paths, thus, their techniques.
2. Kyuubi states that Naruto has learned the same method as Minato. Since Minato didn't master all elements, either, I don't think it's related with it.
c) One counter-argument can easily be made, since the Rikudou Sennin never used such a technique over Kyuubi when he was alive.
d) The strongest proof that there is a connection. If he can get the Rinnegan somehow, Naruto can become the successor of the great sage by that way.
Besides, it is the the Sage of Six Paths: the key here is sage.
My initial post was clear, and I was expecting one to read it as a landmark. For a comment, I think you did a very poor job because you are the last person I would ever have expected such comment from. I could have accepted such comment from ninjabolt.
Last edited by so6pww; January 24, 2013 at 12:48 PM.
this whole manga is being about naruto so i don't get why you said almost the last 20 chapters was about him alone while the rinnegan is important to use the gedo but as madara said obito can use gedo because he got uchiha and hashirama's cell in him and we had a thread of this http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...The-Six-Path-s since june 16 2010, i guess you're new..
i know you're a naruto lover and i don't hate naruto, i actually like the way , naruto work hard through life and came all the way up through hard work but everything changed lately and you don't really accepted criticism about naruto even if people give you proves and facts.
I'm not denying his chakra manipulation surpassed Minato's, though. It is clearly stated.
If I was indeed in denial, I would try to refute the fact that the Kyuubi seemed familiar with the seal itself, but I didn't, since it's apparently that way.
Since there are no living witnesses to that battle, Naruto will have to figure whatever jutsu the sage used on his own.
1. Finally, you should also take into account Madara's comment in the image I gave.
While you can use the gedo Mazou without Rinnegan, Madara said that you will not be able to use it well. This mean that from Madara's experience, you can be able to use it without Rinnegan, but you need Rinnegan for a better use. This justify why Obito took Nagato's eyes.
This is why your argument does not make any sense.
P.S: Finally, you should also understand that this explanation is based only on Madara's experience. Maybe Madara is strong enough to use it, but someone weaker than him might not be able to use it. Besides, it can happen that someone stronger than Madara can use it perfectly without Rinnegan
0. He mastered Rasengan, which is said to be the highest level of shape manipulation
1. Mixed wind with his chakra to form fuiton Rasenchuriken
2. He mastered SM better than Jiraya - balanced three different source of energy.
3. He has been making any sort of shape manipulation with Kyuubi's chakra - chakra arm, chakra tails, etc.
If after all this someone thought there is something Naruto does not understand about chakra, I will not bother discussing because I know why it can happen. However, in the 617 chapter, the explanation of the result is clear. I don't see another explanation of matching each person unique trait than mastering all five elemental nature. This is a direct deduction because Naruto gave them a ready to use chakra for their jutsu.
Also, you don't have to fight someone to know their moves. You can hear them talk about it, or get intel from someone else.
Thus there the will and the power as well. There is the power to make the Bijus a single will, and a better being.
We don't know it holds true for each element. Only elemental ninjutsu that was used fueled by Naruto's converted Kyuubi chakra was a fuuton one, the one element Naruto has an affinity for.
Since Naruto probably won't be learning new jutsu mid-fight, we might not get to see through this for a good while.
True. It was Chibaku Tensei to seal the remnant body known as the Mazo in the creation of the moon.
Hm, this could be true. I wonder who could those people be? Ah, perhaps the sons of the sage? They were definitely a good source of information about the Rikudou Sennin. Moreover, they could communicate with the beasts in a way today's Shinobi couldn't, because of the wall of the hatred between.
A good proposal this is.
Just my way of thinking, but apparently, it's not taking me anywhere.
In the same way there is no mention of Madara summoning Gedo Mazou,it is not said anywhere that Rinnegan is needed to summon the Gedo Mazou. As matter of fact, Nagato and Tobi used a summoning Jutsu to summon the Mazou. The summoning is the same as any other summoning, and the only thing I can say is that they have a contract with it. As you can see in the lower left panel, here, summoning Gedo Mazou is a summoning Jutsu.
My opinion on this is that you are denying hard evidence. The only fact we have is that it is possible to use the Mazou even without Rinnegan, and that Rinnegan make the use perfect.
It is up to you to accept this evidence or reject it. Anyone can believe what they want. Actually, I have notice that people complain on forums because they spend all they time denying the simplest facts.
How do you describe the word unique trait, and it correlation with the phrase match to each person? Can you tell me what make Kakashi unique relatively to Guy Sensei?
Note: Don't froget we are talking about chakra - which make affinity the most simple fact. Otherwise, any other unique trait will be even more complex than nature of the chakra. Again, you can close your eyes on the fact.
The fact is there is one thing no one can be sure about Naruto. There is a 2.5 years spent with Jiraya where he came back only with better Kage bushin and three-tail chakra cloak. My guess is that there was more in those years (speculation, but I can bet on this time-skip). Besides, I am pretty sure Kishi will explain how Naruto knew the new chakra sealing tech.
Here is my definition of Naruto
Naruto = legacy of (Uzumaki, Senju, and whatever Minato is). I could even add So6P.
These facts in turn show that Kurama has a very rich knowledge about the shinobi world. He might even know more than people such as Madara because he is part of Juubi. If Rikudo planned for the nine Bijus to become one again, he had to place the consciousness of the Juubi somewhere in them.
I believe that's what we call interpretation, but never mind, no need to argue about that.
He probably knows as much as the Rikudou told them, we can't know its extent, anyway.
1. You have Kyuubi's chakra on the left side geared into Naruto's chakra to show how Naruto is the channel.
2. Then Naruto mold the chakra and make different pool of chakra depending on the person he wants to match. These boxes are not shapes. They are chakra channel that Naruto makes.
3. Finally, each channel his geared into the chakra connection of the shinobi that correspond to it.
You can see that if we think that unique trait is not chakra affinity, then Naruto had to match more than 5 types of chakra. Then, what will we call type of chakra. My only guess here is the elements because Naruto gave chakra to more than 10 people. WHether they are 500 or more, he had to use each elemental chakra for those with single elements, and mix them for those with more element.
The most impressive fact here is not even matching each person's chakra. The question is how Naruto find the unique trait of each person?
The answer to this question is the most intriguing fact of the chapter. DId he use sensing, visualization, or what? Most people would not care about this until Kishi does something, and then, they will yell asspul.
However, there is something that you should not forget. Naruto had the Hakke seal. As soon as he took Kurama's chakra, the seal became a Rikudo seal. Can you explain what happened? Was it a mutation? Something happened that show that the seal is not just a seal. I will not go in deep specualtion, so let stop here.
I think it has got to be some sort of sensing. Even if it was related to elemental affinity, Naruto didn't have any knowledge about that prior to chakra distribution. He somehow connected his own chakra to his comrades' chakra pool, but it's a mystery how he exactly did that.
I don't know if the Rikudou seal is a unique one to Naruto's usage or a Jinchuuriki trait. Probably it could be related to his Uzumaki lineage. That's a more proper explanation.
True that it will only be speculation anything beyond this.
About breaking the seal, I'm not sure. It could be some sort of protection over the Chibaku Tensei, as well. Just speculating.
The unique trait thing, I believe, has to do with their balance between spiritual and physical energy. Naruto is essentially modifying his chakra to where people can handle it. The fact that it it affects people differently (such as Chouji regaining weight) is evidence of this.
in fact, you are using argument you don't even understand. Chouji becomes fact whenever he takes more calories. In the panel involving Chouji, Chouji himself uttered "calories". This mean that the chakra Naruto gave him much exactly whatever he used to take - that is the food pills, or his own physical energy. However, you seems to forget that each person's physical energy defines his natural affinity. In the same way Chouji get some calories, the cloud ninja will have what he need to make lighning, and the rock ninja, some earth jutsu. The logic is very simple.
Question: Would you define Balance? And would you show how it can be unique to someone?
And I think the chakra/chakra affinity included/part of individual traits. We've seen naruto change/mold kurama's chakra compatible to the ninja's traits. So it's the same as naruto mokd/change kurama's chakra compatible to ninja's chakra affinity.
Not unless, naruto's ''conversion'' chakra is like a universal chakra. That it's suitable to any type of chakra affinity. But from what the manga has shown, that's not the case. Because naruto did really mold/change kurama's chakra specifically/compatible to a lightning/earth/water/fire/wind users/ninjas.