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Thread: Koshiro killed Kuina

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    Koshiro killed Kuina

    I just started reading OP a few months and there is something that has been bothering me when I was reading about Zoro's past, particularly his past friend/rival's death, Kuina. Since so much time has past in the story since then, I didn't give it much thought until the plot of this new arc has started to unfold, so I decided to share my theory with everyone about Zoro, Kuina, and Koshiro and what might happen in this new arc.

    Theory: Kuina's death might not had been an accident. Instead she was killed by her father, Koshiro (and we might find out about this in the next arc).

    Kuina's Skills and Apparent "Accidental" Death:

    In the very early chapters, Ch. 5 page 10, As described in the 4th panel, even though he was still a child, Zoro's skills as a swordsman was stated being greater than many of adults and yet he found himself unable to beat a single person, Kuina, who even though it didn't give much details to the degree of her strength, was indicated to be a highly skilled swordsman for her aged.

    However, sometime after making a promise that one of them will become the world's greatest swordsman, it was revealed that she died in an "accident" when she apparently "fell down from the stairs": Ch. 5 page 10. To me, it seems strange (zoro has fell from a higher height) that someone with her skills (and the presumed self-discipline that she gain with her skills) to have died in the way that she did when she "fell down from the stairs" and compared with most of the other SHs' 'love ones' (you can say), the circumstances that surrounded her death seems to be the least revealing; giving a sense that there might be more to the story than originally revealed.

    Koshiro, his Possible Motive, and his Role in the Next Arc:

    After winning her 2001th victory over Zoro, she confessed that she could never become the world's greatest swordsman since she was a girl: Ch. 5 pg. 14. After she confessed this, Zoro was able to gain her self-confidence and they made a promise that one of them will become the world's strongest, which after that, she abruptly died. It is also seems strange that her death came right after their promise when she gained the confidence in herself after (presumably) years of holding onto the belief that she could never advance because she was a girl.

    However, during her confession, it was also revealed that she gain this belief of women inferiority from her father, Koshiro, and suggests that he has male dominant parenting-style. With that said, if it turns out that her death wasn't an accident, then the most likely suspect (so far) for her death might be her father and his possible motive for killing her could involve his male superiority beliefs that women are incapable of becoming the world's greatest swordsman and he felt his beliefs threaten when his daughter had a renewed faith in her abilities (after being convinced otherwise by her father), so he might have sought out to prevent this from happening (even if she was his daughter).

    As indicated in Ch. 655, the next arc features an apparent opposing force that consist of samurais, which is possibly the first time when Oda created "villains" (yet to be confirmed to be the main villains of this particular arc) that consist entirely of swordsmen. Well, if in fact that Koshiro did kill Kuina and that Oda is planning on portraying him as another obstacle to overcome, then this current arc (or sometime around it) would be a perfect opportunity to do so and so it may turn out that Koshiro is one of these group of samurais.

    Tashigi's Role and the Next Arc:

    After Tashigi made her appearance in the series, it was revealed (as stated by Zoro) that her personal and physical traits resemble that of Kuina: Ch. 100 pg. 12 Ch. 100 pg. 12; leaving a sense of mystery behind her character (of her purpose in the story) and that she might play some greater role between her character and Zoro that is yet to be revealed (which could involve something with Zoro's and Kuina's past). After hers (and Smoker's) long absence after the Alabasta Arc, she makes a reappearance for this upcoming new arc: Ch. 652 pg.16 Ch. 655 pg. 8.

    With the coming appearance of the samurais and the re-confrontation between Zoro and Tashigi, it appears that the plot might be building up to some point within the story in which Oda might be planning revealing Zoro's and Tashigi's roles and something more about their own pasts (and maybe some kind twist involving Kuina and Koshiro).

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sachsenhesse's Avatar
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    Re: Koshiro killed Kuina

    I think not just because of zoros flashback to Koshiro where he says something about "cutting without hacking"? sorry only got the german phrases in my head right now schneiden ohne zu spalten ). And the momoent he demostrated this... he failed big time.

    But nevermind I´m looking forward to wano since ryuma. D:

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    Re: Koshiro killed Kuina

    No, he failed on purpose. Koshiro said that there are swordsmen who can cut steel and also cut nothing at the same time. So what Koshiro demonstrated was that even though he was hacking witha sharp katana the paper was not cut. This shows that he had a good control over his sword. We did see when zoro fought Mr 1, first zoro tried to cut some leaves but it did not cut and then next he cut a stone and it got sliced in half.
    How can he be a dojo master of he cannot even cut paper?

    He said to kuina that she can't become strong because she is a woman, but at that time she could easily beat zoro who could beat adults easily. So she would have become very very strong, stronger than tashigi. So if Koshiro thought Kuina would be weak even though she could be a vice admiral strong then Koshiro must be very strong.
    Last edited by Barrier; May 14, 2015 at 10:23 AM.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted sarutobi_sensei's Avatar
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    Re: Koshiro killed Kuina

    I still think that she's alive thought. Dragon's ship was nearby when she was apparently killed, so either she got sent in Dragon's ship like Sabo was rescued, or she's actually Tashigi and she just lost her memories :v

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    Re: Koshiro killed Kuina

    Quote Originally Posted by sarutobi_sensei View Post
    I still think that she's alive thought. Dragon's ship was nearby when she was apparently killed, so either she got sent in Dragon's ship like Sabo was rescued, or she's actually Tashigi and she just lost her memories :v
    In the anime they did show her body

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member StrawHat 13's Avatar
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    Re: Koshiro killed Kuina

    Oldly enough maybe koshiro is from wano? Iirc, kuina shown as a baby is being held by her mother (wearing a kimono). Is it possible kuina and tashigi are twins seperated at birth? Kuina living with koshiro and tashigi with their mother. This would be in line with his male dominant view point on the world, maybe the mother could forsee his narrow views affecting his 2 daughters. Also, in support of the idea, koshiro, besides believing a woman couldn't be the best swords(wo)man, possibly feared the path kuina would take to achieve this ambition. In order to become the best she would at some point have to challenge samurai from wa no kuni, potentially uncovering truths about her father and why he left wa and what truely happened to her mother (dont remember iff a proper explanation was provided for her)

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    Re: Koshiro killed Kuina

    Quote Originally Posted by StrawHat 13 View Post
    Is it possible kuina and tashigi are twins seperated at birth?
    Since Kuina was just born in chapter zero, that makes her one year younger than Tashigi.
    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

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    Re: Koshiro killed Kuina

    More detailed explanation:


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    Re: Koshiro killed Kuina

    Kuina was definitely killed by her father, people just don't die from falling down steps in manga.

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    Re: Koshiro killed Kuina

    I think that's a teeny bit extreme don't ya think?

    Dude was your traditional sexist, but he didn't seem malicious with it. Killing his daughter because she potentially threatened his world view is just way to out there. It isn't even like he made an example out of her. It would be different if she was actually in the running as a high class swordsman. She was still a trainee in a dojo for Oda's sake. Plus, we've seen him still keeping her grave nice and neat and offering tribute to it, as well as putting the newspaper on the grave about Zoro's progress. He's probably still a sexist douche, but I don't think he's a murderer.

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    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Holt's Avatar
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    Re: Koshiro killed Kuina

    Koshiro being a murderer because of his sexist views seems too weird. It's even more unlikely that he killed his own daughter for that reason. Something like that seems a bit too dark as he hasn't been protrayed to be that malicious. I think Oda would have gotten to it by now. Still, I have this weird feeling about Tashigi. I wouldn't be surprised if she really turns out to be kuina with memory loss or some other situation. True, things thus far makes this seem very unlikely but who knows.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member frontaLobotomy's Avatar
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    Re: Koshiro killed Kuina

    I saw this theory pop up on my YouTube feed a few weeks back and figured I'd do the courtesy of watching. While it's a very well thought out theory, I just don't see it happening. Kuina's death serves as a means of binding Zoro to his resolve; he's going to be the strongest swordsman for her just as much as it is for him. Koshiro wasn't all that fleshed out in the manga, I don't think he said anything regarding Kuina's weakness as a girl and the anime's status as canon is dubious at times for that very reason. Zoro's flashback only lasted like half a chapter, while it had a whole episode dedicated to it in the anime.

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    Re: Koshiro killed Kuina

    Koshiro didn't kill Kuina out of hate, he killed her in order to make Zoro his ultimate opponent. Just imagine when Koshiro admits he killed Kuina, Zoro will get mad and power up and Koshiro is going to smile and say "that's the power I wanted to see!"

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Koshiro killed Kuina

    ^I gotta say this, that sounds completely asinine. And even if something of the sort was a thing it begs the question, why kill his daughter? He could as easily have faked her death to the same effect.

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    Re: Koshiro killed Kuina

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    ^I gotta say this, that sounds completely asinine. And even if something of the sort was a thing it begs the question, why kill his daughter? He could as easily have faked her death to the same effect.
    if you watch the video then you will understand

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