Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (2/23/15 - 3/1/15).
! Visit the new forums for Tokyo Ghoul and The Gamer!
Forum News: Vote in the final phase of the Anime Awards 2014
The whole concept of kage bunshin training does make sense to me. I mean, the clones could be trying the same thing, but they can do it differently. One clone could put in more chakra, another can put in less chakra, one more could shape chakra differently, etc. It's not like they're doing 100% same thing, so the whole clones reading books doesn't make sense at all. They'll still understand it the same way, read the same way, do everything the same way. However, clones doing science experiments make sense as each can do things differently to try and get a result.
However, experience going back to its user makes no sense. How does that happen, and why mental stuff, but not pain or chakra? Or does chakra go back only if the user dispelled his own kage bunshin, instead of it being killed away? Seems like an asspull ability to make Naruto gain a powerful jutsu. That's the only thing here that makes no sense, but the training or concept of training with kage bunshin does make perfect sense.
It's been demonstrated that the clones don't all have the exact same thought process in the same situation at any given second. One clone might try melding too much chakra, another too little, simply at random (because each version of Naruto is essentially fumbling around trying to figure out this jutsu training, in the case of the Wind Element training). When the clones disperse, Naruto gains perspective on each of their successes/failures, and he can then synthesize these results and gain a "God's-eye view" of the situation, saving a vast amount of time. Based on what worked for one clone, he can see why another clone failed, etc.
Some clones might get lucky at make the right decisions, others might get unlucky- your average ninja has a high percent chance of going either direction when approaching a new type of training, but Naruto can basically skip the wrong steps by making enough clones that he's practically guaranteed to figure SOMETHING out.
Then, once he's completed this process, his next wave of clones will have that superior knowledge, and each of them can start with the knowledge accumulated by the "God's-eye view" original Naruto. Thus, within a few waves, he can easily eliminate all the roadblocks and mistakes that would have held him back, and can zero in on exactly the right methods to bring about success. He can grasp the correct approach much more quickly, and master it almost instantly through repetition once his next wave of clones is aware of the new method.
In other words, "every mistake is a lesson", and Naruto is free to make hundreds of different mistakes (and possibly a few dozen successes) all at the same time, and instantly gain ALL of those lessons. If the majority of his clones make the same mistake, it's a sure bet that will be the first mistake Naruto eliminates in the next wave.
Last edited by rlinfamous; February 02, 2013 at 04:47 PM.
---------- Post added at 04:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:47 PM ----------
IMO, Naruto works on feelings much better than anything else, which IMO is why I think he's so good at Sage Mode.
1) Kage Bushin. Killed himself overnight to learn the jutsu. Unknown how hard it is to learn this jutsu however.
2) Tree climbing. Whether or not this was quick is unknown. Sakura did it on her first try and him and Sasuke decided to train all night to master it. I say this is unknown because curiously a genius in Sasuke, who already knew advanced ninjutsu didn't initially learn it much faster than him.
3) Rasengan. Took him 7 days. IMO, this is his most impressive feat even though he technically didn't complete it properly and only until recently could he do it with one hand.
4) Sage Mode. As I said, he did this quickly and I'm inclined to believe it was a natural talent for him, but the fact remains he mastered it in what was probably less than a month to a degree his Master couldn't in years.
5) RK Mode. An unprecedented feat so it's unknown how long this would normally take as it wasn't a normal Biju Cloak.
Acutally it makes a lot of sense and is no asspull whatsoever.
Lets look what was the orginial idea behind the technique:
Somewhere in the manga it was stated that Kage Bunshin was invented for spying missions with no risks for the user.
Out of that sense there's no avoiding in regaining knowledge or the technique itself would not make sense.
So then an easy example:
Imagine you want to draw a square. You've got 4 edges, so you can start at 4 edges. If you let 1000 people do this exercise and then combine your knowledge you will have at least 4 different ways to draw a square.
I think at least the germans here are familiar with this: This is the "house of St. Nichols" oder "Das Haus vom Nikolaus" as we call it. The target of this exercise is to draw the house without painting the lines doubled.
I looked it up on Wikipedia: There are 44 solutions to complete this.
So let 1000 people do this and you'll probobly have several solutions.
Redoing it with the 1000 people after they done it the first time will of course increase the result if they collected all the knowledge of all the other people.
So it is working.
The chakra training of Naruto is nothing less, lets make it clear with the example above.
Naruto at 100% chakra makes 5 clones, each having 20% of his chakra.
Given them 5 minutes time,
Clone 1 finds solution 1,2,5,20 and uses 2% of chakra.
Clone 2 finds solution 1,2,6,21 and uses 2% of chakra.
Clone 3 finds solution 1,2,7,22 and uses 2% of chakra.
Clone 4 finds solution 1,2,8,23 and uses 2% of chakra.
Clone 5 finds solution 1,2,9,24 and uses 2% of chakra.
5 minutes later we got Naruto knowing solutions 1,2,5,6,7,8,9,20,21,22,23 and 24 with 90% Chakra left.
And his classmates saying he's not bright is just their opinion. Kurenai calling Shikamaru an idiot was her opinion based on his horrible test scores, only because he didn't care to do his tests. In many cases, it's not wise or right to take the opinions of others. We've seen them base their opinions of Naruto on his school performance, which is unfair because Naruto has grown a lot since the time he was in school to the time the chuunin exam started (which is when we saw how many people thought of him as an idiot and then began to be shocked by how smart he actually was).
Naruto actually is really studious, he's just not good at it. It hasn't really been featured as part of the main plot, but Kishimoto has done countless illustrations of Naruto with stacks of books and scrolls trying to learn things (and probably making very little progress).
The thing about Naruto is he's better at 1.) learning through hands-on experience, and 2.) figuring out his own solutions to problems.
The Kage Bunshin training works because the clones aren't all doing the exact same thing, as others have stated.
He's not trying the technique in the same way a thousand times, he's trying the technique a thousand different ways at the same time. Each time he carries this out, he gains the experience of all of his clones and can determine which ways worked best and theorize new approaches to solving the problem.
Let's say a standard Naruto training session is 1 day.
Let's say Naruto has 1000 training sessions.
If Naruto does it in a linear fashion, one after the other, it will take almost 3 years to do it 1000 times.
However, if Naruto does it with 100 clones it takes only 10 days to do the 1000 reps.
If the chance of "discovery" is totally random, say the wind shuiken, and the odds are 1 in 10,000, it would take Naruto over 27 years to discover the jutsu doing it linearly.
However, if he used 100 clones in parallel, it would take him a little more than 3 months to make the discovery.
This is what Kishi was utilizing and it makes sense. Naruto needs his powerups now, not when he's 42.
Last edited by Brill; February 04, 2013 at 11:21 AM.
As for his classmates - very few of them are bright so I wouldn't even take their word for it.. lol
---------- Post added at 05:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:44 PM ----------