You're complaining about people being objective? The thread creator asked a simple question concerning Naruto's training regimine and you immediately got defensive, attacking how Uchiha gain their powerups because you perceived him as attacking Naruto.Originally Posted by Roman
Don't be a hypocrite.
As for the thread, I agree, it never made much sense. But I didn't care. I appreciate Kishimoto trying to give Naruto reasons for developing quickly even though he's horrible at chakra control and... thinking. What DID bother me about it, is why clones can transfer memories, mental fatigue, and experience to the real person... but they can't transport Genjutsu effects? Nah.
Madrox. Whose power is the same as Naruto in a lot of ways.
Which is part of why I'm so interested in this question. Is this function of Naruto's power a fault for Kishimoto or is the fact that Madrox could not do this oversight by X-Men for 40 some years.
But as I think Lighty said quite well as the repetitions would logically get more and more different from the original as they were separated longer simply because there is more chance for deviation with each repetition. Think of it like a tree branching out further and further.
Like, even if Naruto had say an innate tendency to try to put more chakra into a jutsu and 500/1000 clones tried to put more chakra into it the first time time as a result of that base tendency. Each time after that the various Naruto's would be more likely to try something different from one another because and as a result they pattern of experience each would build up would be different. So the pattern would be increasingly unique for each. Which would be a benefit in training.
The Number of Clones X The Number of Time Training = Resulting Experience
I remember getting in massive debate about Kirrin for similar reasons (the metoerogical physics that "supposedly" make Kirrin possible are...interesting; to say the least.)
Brlll, Delbi, and Lighty in particularly I thought have done an excellent job presenting valid and well explained points.
Delbi was the first to point out the value in "difference of approach" as opposed to "cumulative experience".
Lighty gave a very good explanation of why the the probability would in fact deviate more over time thus reinforcing the functionality of Delbi's explanation
Brill brought up the idea of Naruto dividing the labor on different parts of a given jutsu.
There are still some unclear bits though if you'd like to take a stab at explaining them.
- Is the manga's presented amount of experience Naruto gains through this method even close to what he should expect?
(Number of Clones X Time Trained = Time of experience gained)
- Does it actually work with "skill development" or just "skill discovery" (which is what the pen question is all about)
After all, if you were to deal cards to 4 Naruto's from parallel universes they could play a very enjoyable card game. Because the cards they receive are all different. Even if they shared the exact same tendencys the different cards they were dealt would force different behavior. If they were all dealt the same hand of cards, then the question of "how different each's behavior would be" gets interesting. At least for the first couple hands of the card game.
I also would like to pose the same question to you I posed to MJ3 and Metalia. How much of a bonus to experience would you expect from this style of training exactly? And would you expect it to be similar to what the manga suggested it would be?
Last edited by Jammin; February 13, 2013 at 12:23 AM.
told Naruto to have his clone follow Kakashi's, I think Naruto retains some form of control over his bunshins, so they probably don't deviate from Naruto's original personality too much. If anything, they were each probably told or ordered to find a way to split leaves their own way.
It probably makes sense if Naruto really does have control over his bunshins. Didn't he use three or four bunshins to trick the Rain genins durin the exam? They didn't act like the usual bunshins, arguing or anything. He probably made sure they didn't, I guess?
I think each of the clones know what the other does, except for the original? Some could also be doin the same thing as well - three or four tries using a lot of chakra, twenty or thirty-three tries shaping chakra the way Asuma explained, and etc. I don't think it's exactly with precision, which could be why it took longer despite the hax.Quote:
They could each also slowly try a different way, whether very little or very big. They could also share a mind, which ironically can't with the original withotu dispelling.Quote:
Why not? Kage bunshin works well because Naruto's using his body, not studying or doing the same thing. He's applying different ways to get the result he wants, and whichever's successful is the one he goes with.Quote:
NOt sure if that's the true equation, since if a lot of clones try the same thing, it takes away some of the experience.Quote:
Even if Kakashi's chakra isn't that huge, half of it its still the same amount Sasuke had at the end of part 1, as in Chunin level, which means he would be able to train using that method too.
I agree that this training method doesn't make sense as all the clones would learn the same thing in the same way (if they were all the same person).
The only real way I can see it working is if all the bunshin's are imperfect copies of Naruto. As in, they do not think and act exactly as he does or would. This would enable them to all approach the training in a different way, and would, kind of, help to explain the rapid speed increase in learning...