after reading the last chapters I often wondered if the Shichibukai system can exist. Now that Law and Doffy are no Shichibukais anymore (thats what I think at least) and thanks to Fujitora and the Strawhats basically the whole world knows who Doflamingo really was how will the WG maintain the system?
I know it probably doesnt make sense to simply quit the system. We still don't know the new warlord and it would also lead to other problems. But after this arc and especially after Fujitoras argument with Akainu I have doubts that the marine / wg will not make any big changes.
I think it is possible for the marines to simply quit the "system". To begin with, its not a system to begin with. The shichibukai are a bunch of thugs who are granted immunity is exchange of.... well, nothing really. Well, there is the great war thing however it is the only instance at which the shichibukai were forced to act. However the only way to actually enforce this was to threaten to take away their shichibukai title. So they get their shichibukai title in exchange of nothing and the only way to get them to do anything is to threaten to take the title away.
Overall the core issue is that the shichibukai are simply and factually a liability. Every single shichibukai we have seen in action has actively abused his title. And you know shit hit the fan all the way south when the stuff done by this guys is so atrocious that it counts as abusing their free pass. Just look at the facts:
1.- Crocodile set out to make a kingdom for himself and get a weapon which would potentially allow him to control the world.
2.- MIhawk actively does not give a crap. He fights on his own whims and trained zoro. Training zoro is by far his worst offense. Considering what zoro's endgame is odds are the only regret the world government will have if they find out is that mihawk only has 1 neck to hang him from.
3.- Jinbe heard of the war, the one thing the world government needed jinbe to do and he bailed on it. And after bailing he fought against the marines. Once again the only regret the WG should have here is that jinbe does not have even the one neck they need to hang him. Let alone the other 1000 they would like him to have so that they can hang him until they are satisfied.
4.- Moria was literally building an army of the undead to take on the new world. All under the protection and liberty granted by the world government.
5.-Kuma did not do his one job of protecting the strawhats. repeatedly. And somehow even in death as a brainless cyborg he managed to protect the strawhats.
6.-BB used his title to go to ID and release the worst prisoners in the world. On top of getting the absolute worst of them to join his crew. He then went on to rampage during the war, fight WB and sengoku and attempted to destroy marineford.
7.- Boa barely cares about his title and is directly responsible for luffy getting to ID and everything that followed. Her random whim changed the world for the worst (from the world governments perspective). To add insult to injury she took out god knows how many pacifista during the war. And she aided the strawhats when they reunited.
8.- Doflamingo pulled a crocodile but 1000 times worst. And he literally almost killed every citizen in a nation in cold blood. For being freed from the slavery he subjected them too.
9.- Buggy got his title and is apparently able to roam free through the world with an army of escaped prisoners. He hasn't technically abused his title but its a matter of time for the most part. Everything about him being a shichibukai is moronic either way. I mean, the guy got a crew which is incredibly powerful and after that the world government gave him a free pass. It wouldn't even be weird if buggy and his 200 prisoners along with whoever else joined along the way basically make up the single strongest army in the world. Surely they would lack people of true strength but we are still talking about an army where the weakest person was someone deemed bad enough to end up at ID.
10.- Law technically has done good stuff. Although he still ended up pissing of the world government.Worth noting, he got the title after sending the marines a box full of beating hearts. Of course it was not going to bode well for the world government.
In essence, there is no benefit to the shichibukai being a thing. Each shichibukai has systematically and intentionally acted against the world government. Whatever fear they cause to pirates is easily offset by the sheer horror each of them have brought about by abusing their titles. Seriously, we have ravaged countries, boxes full of beating hearts, almost genocides, LITERAL ARMIES OF THE UNDEAD (and otherwise).
Overall, the only reason the manga has developed this way is because the shichibukai are a thing. The manga spins around the crap the shichibukai pulled. The great war itself has its origins in Crocodiles antics at alabasta. His defeat got shanks and WB to meet. It also made a name for luffy. Which in turn resulted in BB chasing him and made his ace one ace simply couldn't afford to retreat from. Which triggered the great war. As I said earlier everything about boa made the war go the way it did. It could have gone significantly different if Boa had not jumpstarted the events which got luffy and his 250 merry friends there.
Now, this is not to say that the world government should simply stop using pirates. Realistically speaking pirates can be immensely powerful individuals with incredible skills. Honing their talents is a reasonable desire. However it is unreasonable to give them a free pass to do as they wish which does not enable the WG to consistently use their power. They should be aiming to make a military unit of people entirely subservient to the WG's whim in exchange for an eventual pardon. However what you don't do with a bunch of deranged powerhungry criminals is give them a free pass.
WG needs Shichibukai system. They have to collect powerful pirates to make a balance with Yonkou.
Marine can fight against pirates but the ways to fight or capture are more difficult than using pirate fight against each other.
If there's no Shichibukai, they would have too much enemies, they have to fight against a number of powerful pirates and Yonkou. But when they have Shichibukai, they don't have to fight against these powerful pirates, the enemies are much reduced.
I don't think WG minds the dirty actions of Shichibukai unless it's public or undercover like Crocodile or Moria. If Fujitora didn't make the news of Dofla public, WG would still keep him to be Shichibukai.
However, I guess they have to fill the Shichibukai, some super rookies may be offered these positions. But I wonder why there must be 7 positions. I know Shichi means 7 but I don't understand why must it be 7?
The shichibukai existed even after Crocodile got unmasked, and Doflamingo and Hancock never got in trouble for messing around with the Marine/s. they will continue to exist for as long as the government needs their power, though they won't be able to do anything no matter what the shichibukai do. It will be up to the pirates like Luffy to do anything about them, unfortunately. The shichibukai, regardless of their actions and past actions, are there because the government offers them protection in return for their power against a Yonkou.
Shichibukai's actual impact was positive towards the world government during the war, no? It was only Hancock who did anything negative, and even then it was only when it came to Luffy. If I recall, Oars Jr. was stopped thanks to Doflamingo, while Kuma was taking out opponents and stopping Luffy in his path. I don't recall any shichibukai bar maybe Hancock really acting out against the government, and even Doflamingo obeyed Tsuru to lay off the cronies. They offer their power only when they are required to, which is probably if a fight with a Yonkou is imminent.
It is flawed though, because shichibukai can basically get away with almost anything and cant' be stopped by the Marines.
1.- Boa attacked marines and pirates alike as well as the pacifista.
2.- Moria and doflamingo were the ones who took out oars. However we did see moria using marine shadows to fight pirates.
3.- Doflamingo attempted to recruit crocodile during the war. It could have been the case that he was fooling around though.
4.-Blackbeard didn't show up and made the ID thing even worst than it already was. When he did show up he fought BB and sengoku.
5.- Not sure what to make of mihawk. He did have a few moments but it does not seem like he went through with the stuff he did. Vista seemed completely fine after we saw him confront mihawk. Overall, mihawk did not seem to have significant impact over the war.
6.- Crocodile just randomly rampaged through the whole thing but ended up helping luffy.
7.- Jinbe did nothing but fight against the world government.
8.- Kuma did do his job.
The shichibukai do not actually lend the world government their strength. In the grand scheme of things the closest to that we have seen is mihawk not getting in the way. Other than that they have been directly responsible for the worst things that have happened in the manga. Heck, just the dressrosa events are so atrocious that it is enough to offset any plausible benefit the marines have gotten from the guys. And that does not even consider the alabasta events, Boa and her role in ID, BB and ID, the evil army of the undead and so much more stuff. The system is beyond flawed, its broken and doing the exact opposite of what it is supposed to do.
2. They took out Oars Jr first, and who knows what would have happened if they didn't. Either the Marines would have received lots of damage, or they would have received lot of damage before finally taking down the giant. And unless Moria took out those soldiers to use them, not a negative impact.
3. How is that a negative impact? It's not like he was going to use Croc to attack the Marines.
4. The second shichibukai, along with JInbei, who did actually have a negative impact against the Marines. But, his crew did deal the finishing blows to Whitebeard, effectively ending the age of Whitebeard.
5. Majority of the Marines, to be honest. What did Aokiji and Kuzan do? Mihawk was actually pushing Luffy further away from Ace until Luffy got help.Quote:
6. He ceased to be a shichibukai many arcs prior to the war.
7. Negative impact, but he did quit his position prior to fighting. I guess he counts anyway as without him, Luffy would not have made it to Marineford, and without him, the pirates would have been in huge trouble.
If I recall, they lend strength only when it comes to Yonkou or a tough crew. otherwise they're free to their own devices. The Marines grant them pardon in exchange for their power if they should get into a war or war with a Yonkou.Quote:
I know. Should be that if they do unspeakably horrible things, then the Marines should be allowed to stop them.
Seven Seas"; I guess Oda is using the concept with the idea of representing a group of people who comes from all over the world.
At most the Shichibukai seems to just be a temporary "band aid" for a larger issue. The idea behind them is solid on paper. Get a group of super strong pirates and exempt their bounties. In exchange they'll hunt other Pirates for us and not purposely antagonize the Marines. Sounds like a pretty good deal. From what we've seen however, they cause more chaos than anything. Maybe they actually do cull some Pirates from the time to time, but we've barely seen it.
The idea is sound, but the execution definitely didn't work.
Will the Shichibukai system end, now?
The answer is: no. Not at the moment, and not until the World Government can find a good alternative to them.
They are indeed shameful and worthless until you threaten them to strip their rollercoaster ticket away, no doubt about that.
But they are powerful, and they are a psychological barrier against anyone who wants to declare war against WG.
I think that the Shichibukai system was designed by the Tenryuubitos, and I say this because SB are in fact Privateers that don't share the booty and are free to kill without consequences.
In OP World there's an obvious "Three Great Powers" balance, the one made by Yonkos, Marines and Shichibukai.
But now I think that there's a similar mechanism that regulates World Government: Marines, Shichibukai and Cipher Pols.
Anyone can tell why Tenryuubitos need military power, but why the they need three completely independent powers at their service?
I think that this is done because in case of a coup d'état, they'll still detain some military power... even if two of those powers join their forces against them.
(yes, they think Shichibukai are reliable... If things turns ugly, they can pay them infinite amounts of money, after all. Money, you know.)
Tenryuubitos care only about themselves and their power, they fear to lose it, and all they have done demonstrates this. So if SB are really their idea... they won't kill that system until they find a good alternative.
Like the last time, they will simply fill the vacant seats.
Last edited by keeper1h; July 11, 2015 at 06:36 PM. Reason: i had reasons
The problem is only when their actions defy the WG in one way or the other. Heck, we even learned recently that Fujitora would have let both Caesar and Luffy go if Law were to claim that they are his subordinates.
Now coming to each Shichi independently:
1) Crocodile´s plan ultimately was to defy the WG, so i give you that but it was implied that in the 10 or so years he was a Shichi, he took out countless pirates who would have wrecked havoc otherwise and caused a lot of damages.
2) Mihawk is one of the few in the world who fought one of the Yonkou (though at that point, that probably did not exist yet) and did not lose. Having the strongest swordsman in the world is already both a sign of prestige and strength and a huge threat, not to forget it was implied with him as well that he took out countless people, as seen with Don Krieg. He almost took out the SHs as well before they even started their journey in the Grand Line and look what that would have prevented.
3) Jinbe´s position as Shichi was first and foremost a sign for the "friendship" between humans and fishmen and while that did not represent the truth, it did not matter as long as it seemed that way.
4) He was also taking out tons of pirates in the Florian Triangle. Of course not every disappearance can be attributed to him but nevertheless, it was to the extent that the Triangle became famous for it.
5) It was also implied that Kuma was the most diligent one, doing secret missions for the Gorosei. It seemed like it was the first time he did not complete the mission assigned to him but even this was on purpose.
6) BB is obvious, that one sucked for the WG.
7) Prestige of having Boa under the WG + the loot.
8) Doflamingo as well seemed to have done secret missions for the WG, maybe even for the Tenryuubito directly. I doubt the WG did not know about the tragedy that unfolded at Dressrosa but who cares, it´s not the same as Crocodile looking for an ancient weapon.
9) Can´t say anything about Buggy but having a former Roger Pirate working under you, yeah...
10) No idea what Law did or did not do but he was BB on a smaller scale
Problem is, you judge their actions by your morals. Most of the WG does not care about the general populace, so most crimes the Shichibukai have done does not bother them. Heck, i doubt they would have cared if Crocodile only took over Alabasta, especially since we learned who the Nefertari family is.
The great war has its origins in Luffy beating Crocodile, that´s why the former is such an annoyance. Without Luffy, Crocodile would have just taken over Alabasta and nobody would have cared but even without that, BB would have found a way, even by beating one of the Shichibukai if he had to (and he could have easily beaten Moria at least). And from WG´s perspective, without the Shichibukai, they probably would have never killed Ace, Roger´s descendant, the true enemy of the Tenryuubito, so yeah.
It´s not just a thing because the manga says so, it´s a thing because the WG does not have any qualm in using criminals and that´s also why guys like Smoker and Fujitora arise.
Most Marines don't care about what the shichibukai are doing they only have a problem once they get caught. Like that one marine Arlong was paying off, he must've know what was going on in the village but didn't care.
The shichibukai are not necessarily a threat to anyone. Ok, you can make a few cases where they have fought pirates and whatnot however it has always been in their own self interest and probably with bigger goals in mind. Crocodile did make himself into a hero but it was a calculate move to ultimately take over alabasta and getting a super weapon. Him taking out pirates does not justify this. Jinbe did become a shichibukai as a sign of friendship and jinbe is overall a good guy and somehow the whole thing still went to hell. Jinbe ended up fighting alongside the WB pirates to protect ace. At the one time he really had orders to follow and do his duty for the world government. It is true moria took out a bunch of people at the florian triangle. But he also took shadows from marines and civilians all over. Whatever benefit there was to him taking out pirates at the florian triangle is clearly offset by the fact that he was building an evil army of the undead. Boa hancock is one of the worst out there. Her betrayal and the extent of it is unknown by the world government but overall she is the sole reason ID was defiled. It was abusing her influence that allowed luffy to get in. It was specifically thanks to hancock that luffy was able to best ID and get to marineford. Kuma is some sort of slave cyborg to the world government. Except when he kinda isn't considering he spent 2 years as a dead cyborg protecting the sunny. From the freaking marines. Doflamingo is actually infinitely worst that crocodile. Only BB might be worst than doflamiingo and even that would depend on the extent of doflamingo's influence. Doflamingo took over a country, then took over the underworld and became a weapon dealer for every side including god knows how many pirates. With the amount of wars he was profiting from god knows how many deaths he has been indirectly responsible for. He attempted genocide on an entire country. Law did not do anything specifically against the world government (except fighting a fellow shichibukai) however the whole thing is asinine to begin with. How is him sending the marines a box full of actual beating hearts not a red flag?
And who exactly are they a threat to? The deal is that they are supposed to aid the world government however the extent to which we have seen that is at best limited. Heck, mihawk retreated from the war the second shanks showed up on account of being beyond their agreement. Boa helped luffy during the strawhats new voyage at sambody archipelago. Kuma helped the strawhats in life and death. They don't even have to show up a meetings when called by the world government. The shichibukai are a bunch of criminals who are given free reign to do as they please in exchange of benefits which we have yet to see in the manga.
Even the war events at large speak against the shichibukai. Mihawk did not seem to defeat anyone worthwhile there at all, at best he kinda tried to do something to luffy and did not finish whatever it is he started with vista. Jinbe showed up to do the most extreme opposite of his job and is one of the reasons luffy is alive at all. Boa fought marines and pirates alike and took out a bunch of pacifista. Moria did defeat oz however we have to considering he was aiming for his body to begin with. Doflamingo like mihawk didn't seem to do much either. We saw no big victory for him there. The closest the shichibukai came to being helpful during the war was them overall not getting in the way. Which only applies to mihawk's half assed efforts to kill luffy and doflamingo with whatever he did the 95% of the time the war lasted that we did not see him.
Who cares why they take out the pirates, they are doing it, that´s the important thing. I hardly doubt that besides Crocodile´s attempt to find Pluton, the WG did not know what the Shichis were doing, they simply do not care, that´s the thing you do not seem to understand. The WG gets even richer, pirates who might become a danger get taken out and all the WG has to do let some of the populace die or suffer, sounds like a good deal to me.
The point with Moria still stands, who cares about some low-level Marines and citizens again? Yeah, not the WG.
True, Hancock´s action were a betrayal but again, she also took out many pirates and got many riches.
And Kuma, protecting the Sunny for 2 years is hardly anythign compared to the secret missions he probably achieved, so yeah, no negative implication here either.
And DD 1) he worked with the WG and 2) he knew about the National Treasure, so his nomination might come from that but i would not call him worse than Crocodile, at least not if we regard the end goal. Crocodile could have killed millions with that weapon. Nevermind that though, the genocide still does not matter, do not mistake Marines like Fujitora with the WG, two different things.
Law sending the hearts of strong pirates just show he is strong, that´s all.
They uphold the balance, that´s the threat. Imagine two of the Yonkou teaming up and the Marines not having the support of the Shichibukai, well, would be a lot closer than Marineford ws in the end and speaking of Marineford, it´s not like the Marines were ever in danger of losing the battle, even with Ace beign free, the Whitebeard pirates were already at the end while most VAs, at least 2 Admirals, Garp, Sengoku were more than fine at that point. There was never a reason for the Shichibukai to get serious.