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All round tactician(using swordmanship and kido) ex.Kira
All round power kidoship(using both powerful kido and kidobased sword)
well Soi Fong's shikai enables her to kill ANYONE she can stab with it. She's quite good at shunpo so surprising the enemy shouldn't be too hard.
Byakuya's senbonzakura is also a great style, it allows him to preserve energy (not having to move and all) while the blades can finish the enemy at a distance, minimizing the chances of injury.
I'd say Kurotsuchi's shikai and bankai shouldn't be underestimated either... with his shikai being powerful enough to paralyze ANYONE'S limb on contact and his bankai spewing poison capable of killing anyone who inhales it. However it does mean having to be able to strike your foe. A faster person would stand a better chance against him.
I would like to know what do u think is more important in bleach fights and what do u like the most!
Point 5.Can't fix it but as Mifune pointed out another good example is Byakuya!
I would like to keep Aizen and OldYama out of all these categories for two main reasons:
1)Aizen sword is overpowered(hax) while OldYama is overpowered (raw)
2)Tactically speakin we know nothing but they r surely god tier and same goes for kido
Since we don't have other fighters with such broken abilities to stand over everybody I thought it wasn't the case to put a godlyship choice....
Last edited by Yans86; December 30, 2009 at 01:50 PM.
Well I'd edge towards swordmanship myself. I think Kido is very very cool but i dont think its necessarily enough to be effective against a good swordsman unless you;re REALLY good at it like Tessai or Hachi.
The way it seems to work in bleach is that kido compliments swordmanship and shunpo. I think the main issue is that even kido masters have to at least say "hadou no/bakudo no" before they use a spell which slows them down. Conversely the top Kido spells seem to have an impact far greater than anything a sword can do unless we're talking bankai.
This sounds like a cop out answer but I think top shinigami must be proficient in both (like Byakuya, Aizen etc). Zaraki has shown you can function as a swordsman only but then again he's just broken. I think the Hachi v Barragan fight illustrated what is wrong with Kido-he did very well but in the end still needed Soi Fon to use her bankai. Now maybe Tessai wouldnt have needed to do that cos he could have just Hadoued Barragan to death (Hachi still has not used any hadou so maybe he isnt good at it). However, Tessai is pretty much the pinnacle of what you can be as a kidou user and if you need t be like him to win with just kidou then its not very practical
btw regarding that poll, while Kira is an excellent example and I think he is awesome, i reckon a better example would be Byakuya
Last edited by Mifune_Taichou; December 30, 2009 at 01:33 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Clearly swordsmanship is massively more important and severely more useful in a fight than kido. Even people who seem to be proficient at kido either refuse to use it or find no use to it in battle except for very specific purposes.
The problem with kido is that it takes time to perform due to the incantations and using it without it seems to come at the cost of a significant amount of power. Just look at aizen, he is supposed to excel at kido yet his black coffin hado barely reached a third of it's intended power due to the lack of a spell. Obviously the hado trashed komamura due to aizen being so absurdly powerful but I would think in a fight with someone more on his level(aizen's level) a spell with a third of it's intended power would be less than a wise choice in comparison to using a zampakuto.
Given how hard it seems to make powerful spells useful in battle (due to the time it takes to cast it with an incantation and the severe reduction in power from using it without one) I think the best kido user shown in a fight is by far byakuya. He seems to have a spell for every situation and uses them accordingly. He combines low, mid and high level with his other skills to a devastating effect. Byakurai is used as a way to get past the enemies defenses and deal very concentrated surprise damage in one spot. Beautiful choice when reaching a swordsmanship standstill considering it is a low level spell which can be used at least close to it's intended power without an incantation. Soukatsui covers large areas and seems to have considerable power without an incantation. Probably due to it being far from a very high level spell which should allow byakuya to get good results without the incantation. Danku is a perfect defense against actual special abilities and would do wonders against a skilled kido user (aizen and tessai are living prove of this).
One thing I have always believed is that a spells power without incantation does not experience a fixed reduction in power though. I get the impression that a kido's power without an incantation relies on the actual skill of the user and greater skill would result in greater efficiency. For instance lets take aizen. He is capable of performing level 90 spells without an incantation (with a severe reduction in power), how dumb would it be that he cannot perform a level 1 spell without an incantation at the same efficiency? I would think someone with enough control and skill over his reiatsu would be capable of at least that. At the very least the guy should be capable of performing low level spells at a marginally (close to 100%) lesser amount of power. I just don't see aizen(or other allegedly skilled captains at kido) not being capable of using a byakuyai at full power without an incantation. It would be absurd if an hypothetical byakurai on aizen's part would barely reach a third of it's intended power if he uses it without an incantation.
Now, lets say ichigo suddenly turns into an adequate kido user and it capable of using the hado tessai used against tessai. Which would be a better choice in a battle, GT or said hado? For ichigo to use said spell to the same effect as GT he would have to use an incantation or risk using an attack with a severe reduction in power. In that sense, GT would be a considerably better and massively more efficient choice. Even using a lower level kido would result in a similar effect and since the spell is actually low level in nature even at full efficiency GT would be severely more useful. Even if ichigo is suddenly capable of using hado's at full capacity without an incantation, GT would still be his own innate power so odds are that when dealing a finishing blow it would still be at the very least a slightly better option than a kido.
Hachi is a great kido user but I would think byakuya does exemplify better use of it in a battle giving that he combines it with other skills he has. Hachi also seems to lack hado's (he never actually attacked barragan, he merely attempted to seal him) which IMHO would cost him a battle against other more well rounded opponents. Then again, by hachi's own admission he isn't fit to fight, that simply isn't his area of specialty.
BTW, I am not sure I understand the poll. Can't really make sense of it.
Last edited by kkck; December 30, 2009 at 02:14 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I think is fact(don't remember where it was said) that to skip an incantation but still have the ability to use it full power is dependent from the user ability/talent and reiatsu.
Said that,mixing them with actual fight is a different matter as u guys pointed out.
Hope this point is cleared for future reference :-P
to me they both can be used to effect battle in different ways but swordsman ship has been the main way we have seen people be defeated majority of the time but if combined with other abilities kido could be a very powerful technique such as soifon and Yoruichi Shunkō and the many spells we have seen from byakuya and the likes so to me kido can be just as important as swordsmanship as it can help reduce the damage taken in a fight and also when combine with other skills can become a lethal of winning battlesas shown by aizen defeat of sajin
Byakuya and Rukia do it well (Their fighting style is very similar). Kido takes up the gaps that sword fighting leaves. Say for instance you and your opponent are in a position where swinging a sword is unreasonable, a well placed kido can really cripple your opponent.
Because you have to use it in battle, there is pretty much no point using a kido if you have to cast an incantation. Even if it is weaker, the speed advantage is far superior.
Hollows do it similar with cero's, and so does Ichigo with getsuga, unfortunately, simple projectiles do not allow for the greater range of techniques that kido gives you. It can replace some of your attack kido's, but:
This is much better than a simple cero or getsuga. If you have a killer melee move, then a binding spell, cast really fast, is death for your opponent.
therefore imo Soi Fon does it best, because her natural fighting style emphasises speed, and so her kido has to be fast, but not powerful, as all it does is to serve as something to create an opening.
While low level offensive kido act as a supplement, and in some ways can be replaced by zanpakto ability, binding spells, no matter how weak, are always useful.
Another situation where high level kido can be used is something like this:
This obviously has a huge incantation, but it's attack strength impresses a captain (gin) even at a fraction of its power. If cast the way Aizen did, minus the incantation, it is much better than a fully powered getsuga. It can not be dodged, it can not be seen, it is almost as fast, and it does more damage. I don't think that characters should all attack with nukes, so even at a third of its power, black coffin is a great spell. And plus, who needs a nuke spell if blast spell level 4 is enough to poke a hole in a shinigami.
Anyone who can use high level kido without the incantation and does not use it in battle is a moron. It increases your battle options by a huge amount, which is enough to warrant its use even by those with zanpakto that pull new abilities out of their proverbial asses every chapter (Hitsi, shunsui).
No one has a zanpakto that comes with projectiles and binding spells for almost every conceivable situation, ergo everyone should use kido.
Last edited by poobert; January 03, 2010 at 03:13 PM.
I like Byakuya's style of fighting...tactics and swordmanship supported by great shunpo and kido...it's not important to know all the kido in the world...but byakuya is the most skilled at that Bakudo <insert nr.>: Rikujou Korou(?spelling)...so if U have some great spells and can perform them with efficiency, then U rock...all roundness is important, and the best...though hax abilities could counter does, pretty easily, so the zanpaktou ability matters very much
To tell the truth, in real Bleach all is decided by plotkai...
But IMHO the logical answer is allround power kidoship plus a bit of sanity. Punish me for mentioning the unholy fillers, but the duo Kouga+Muramasa would be insanely powerful, shouldn't Kouga discard his sword. He seems both skilled in kidou and swordsmanship, being at least on par to Byakuya, and their combined Aizen-like abilities would render defenceless almost any opponent. Heck, he caused old Yama to step in action. It's a pity we'll never see his bankai...
to go back on topic, the most used combination in bleach is a combination of hoho with zanjutsu (speed and swordmanship), the use of effective kidou is based solely on the situation. If you want to be effective in using kidou you must have a wide knowledge of all the kidou and being profficient at using them without the incantation (wich requires the person to have high Reiatsu).
The best combination of fighting styles is a balanced fighting style wich 2 pple stand out in: Kiba and Byukaya (Rukia isnt yet proffecient enough at Kidou)
- Comparing the arts of shinigami combat is akin to comparing machine guns, snipers and bombs.
- We need all of them in war to achieve 100% efficiency and effectiveness.
- In the same taken, a shinigami has to master all the different arts to become well-rounded.
- Even from the point of entertainment, those that do not master all the arts tend to display really boring fights (such as Ichigo who seems to know only a single move).