Turn me on to phantoms

[xi0]

Whats the deal with Bloodraven and the Great Other....
Did he used to be it?

Night king has that raven sigil....is there some relevance between the two?
If so...idk why night king was trying to kill him so bad.

The Great Other isn't a Westerosi concept in the first place. It's the foil to R'hllor, and yeah, Melisandre seems to associate Bloodraven with it in her visions. But visions are misleading by nature. The Drowned God's enemy is the Storm God, who is said to "live in a cloudy hall and ravens are his creatures." It could be that through the power of the Last Greenseer, Bloodraven was able to insert himself into different times and places, his presence being a part of myths and legends. It's just speculation, since stuff like that creates those pesky time paradoxes. Or it could just be a coincidence, as Ravens typically represent stuff like death, wisdom, thought, memory, etc.

Raven sigil? The thing around his neck? Idk if that's plainly a raven. Not sure I'd put much meaning into the Night King's design either, as he only exists in stories in the books. But the story states that he was a former Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, just like Bloodraven, and they're obviously associated with ravens.

 

[gnut]

To me....
It makes no sense how the show makes the Night King so strong.
His magic is so much more stronger than Bloodraven and the Children(they created him).
Im leaning towards them doing the Bran is the Night King thing....and some heavy ret con.
Then Bran has to sacrifice himself to stop him xD

 

[xi0]

To me....
It makes no sense how the show makes the Night King so strong.
His magic is so much more stronger than Bloodraven and the Children(they created him).
Im leaning towards them doing the Bran is the Night King thing....and some heavy ret con.
Then Bran has to sacrifice himself to stop him xD

That sounds somewhat stupid to me honestly. Mainly because they don't really go too far into the territory of time paradoxical shit, besides the Hodor thing.... but maybe that's enough.

 

[gnut]

You say stupid....watch it happen

 

[xi0]

You say stupid....watch it happen

It's the show, so there's a pretty good chance it will be

 

[gnut]

Seems like it to me....they are definitely making it a point that Bran is not Bran anymore.
Yet in still he's not like Bloodraven as far as personality....
If i was to describe his personality...its like a version of the good Terminators xD
Absent of any compassion...family or not.

Like the Night King

 

[M3J]

Uhh... I guess she could be an example of that in some sense, but I really wouldn't consider her a "great" anything. I mean, the showrunners might want to spin it like that as a way to explain her popularity, but I don't really think much about her is really handled in any nuanced way. At least, not compared to who she is in the books. They prefer fireballs/dragons for her, not the more complex things. And when they tread into socio-political issues it usually falls flat for me. Yeah, great, she's the "Breaker of Chains" so she's anti-slavery. Big deal, all of Westeros is, plus it was advantageous for her to be so since it helped her conquer Slaver's Bay. The Lannisters wouldn't have been pro-slavery either most likely. In reality, the only thing that makes her an exceptional ruler is that she has WMDs in the form of Dragons. She's no more exceptional than anyone else in any other way IMO. And does that really make her a "ruler"? Or just an effective conqueror? Plus, just like the Lannisters she represents most of what is wrong with imperialism, birthrite.

Yeah, the "Jaime Lannister" to "The Lannister" change is one of those examples of them removing the "depth" of the story from the show. It's a minor example though and not the worst thing they ever did. Keeping the line to mention Jaime was just another way of showing Roose's cruelty.

Show Cersei has her own issues, yeah. I think the actress and the writers have some sort of obsession with trying to present her as being a sympathetic figure, mostly through her role as a mother... but it doesn't really work. When Cersei becomes a POV character in the books, you begin to realize why she is who she is, and while I guess sympathy is too strong of a word, you do begin to pity her much more than you do in the show. That might have to do with where she's at in the last book.

We already know how Jaime would fare as one of the best swordsmen, because he was one of them. Personally, I think it's more interesting for him to have to relearn what being a man and a knight really is, without his best asset - his sword hand. Cersei cheated on him in the books too, and with more than just Lancel as well.

I don't know if Cersei wouldn't have been pro-slavery, given all sorts of fuckery she does. I find her to be a bit more unique because she's one of the very few rulers who give a shit about her subjects, but she also seems prone to the affliction that her dad had.

It's annoying when one learns about the changes, and it makes me wonder just how dumb they think their viewers are.

Odd thing is, I stopped sympathizing with her at some point in Season 6, when she showed just how evil she was. Before that, it wasn't as hard to sympathize with her because a lot of what she did was due to her wanting to protect her kids.

in a normal fight, yeah, but against countless of wights like Jon Snow's party, we don't know. Or at least, I don't. On that subject, it was so epic seeing Dany come out of nowhere to save the party. I agree on Jaime though, and I like seeing the development and change in his character. He went from pushing a little boy out of the tower for love to realizing what a fucked up, paranoid person Cersei is.

Why would she cheat when she loved him (I assume)? X_X

 

[xi0]

I don't know if Cersei wouldn't have been pro-slavery, given all sorts of fuckery she does. I find her to be a bit more unique because she's one of the very few rulers who give a shit about her subjects, but she also seems prone to the affliction that her dad had.

It's annoying when one learns about the changes, and it makes me wonder just how dumb they think their viewers are.

Odd thing is, I stopped sympathizing with her at some point in Season 6, when she showed just how evil she was. Before that, it wasn't as hard to sympathize with her because a lot of what she did was due to her wanting to protect her kids.

in a normal fight, yeah, but against countless of wights like Jon Snow's party, we don't know. Or at least, I don't. On that subject, it was so epic seeing Dany come out of nowhere to save the party. I agree on Jaime though, and I like seeing the development and change in his character. He went from pushing a little boy out of the tower for love to realizing what a fucked up, paranoid person Cersei is.

Why would she cheat when she loved him (I assume)? X_X

I said the Lannisters, not Cersei. And my point was the Lannisters or even Cersei would have done what Dany did, as it wasn't simply a random act of benevolence. Well yeah, she has Targaryen blood. Whether you want to call it dragon blood, fiery blood, or simply multiple generations of inbreeding...

The show is still head and shoulders above most of everything else on TV. Lately it's only weakness is it's writing. Which is a huge part of it obviously, but I think D&D weaknesses showed when they were forced to condense certain things and when they ran out of books to work off of. Simply knowing plot points here or there isn't good enough. Well, maybe you being pissed off will motivate you to read the books, as they're everything the show has been but better.

Well, it's not just that. She was bitter over being born female, as she saw herself as smarter than Jaime and Tyrion. Of course, she thinks way too highly of herself and her intellect, and I wish the show displayed that part of her, but it's hard since inner monologues can't really exist in the show like they do in the books. Instead they sped through her "punishment" by the Faith and now she's gone full evil Queen again... Not sure I see it going that way in the books though.

Well, if a Jaime with two hands can't stand up to wights, then Westeros doesn't have much hope...

Because she's a bit of a whore. You saw this with Lancel, whom she slept with because he reminded her of Jaime when they were younger. Then there were other characters at court that she manipulated through sex basically. Little did she know that most of them were probably under the employ of Littlefinger.

 

[M3J]

I said the Lannisters, not Cersei. And my point was the Lannisters or even Cersei would have done what Dany did, as it wasn't simply a random act of benevolence. Well yeah, she has Targaryen blood. Whether you want to call it dragon blood, fiery blood, or simply multiple generations of inbreeding...

The show is still head and shoulders above most of everything else on TV. Lately it's only weakness is it's writing. Which is a huge part of it obviously, but I think D&D weaknesses showed when they were forced to condense certain things and when they ran out of books to work off of. Simply knowing plot points here or there isn't good enough. Well, maybe you being pissed off will motivate you to read the books, as they're everything the show has been but better.

Well, it's not just that. She was bitter over being born female, as she saw herself as smarter than Jaime and Tyrion. Of course, she thinks way too highly of herself and her intellect, and I wish the show displayed that part of her, but it's hard since inner monologues can't really exist in the show like they do in the books. Instead they sped through her "punishment" by the Faith and now she's gone full evil Queen again... Not sure I see it going that way in the books though.

Well, if a Jaime with two hands can't stand up to wights, then Westeros doesn't have much hope...

Because she's a bit of a whore. You saw this with Lancel, whom she slept with because he reminded her of Jaime when they were younger. Then there were other characters at court that she manipulated through sex basically. Little did she know that most of them were probably under the employ of Littlefinger.

But you didn't say minus Cersei. Her brother and Aemon seemed to be normal though. And I think it's just multiple generations of inbreeding, as it seems Joffrey was afflicted with something similar as well.

It's different points of view though, so it'd be confusing for someone like me who usually do things before thinking. I thought the show did a decent job of showing that, especially when she called Jaime the stupidest Lannister despite the shit she did. I don't know where the books left her at though, if it's not her being caught cheating.

But how much would he have killed before he'd have probably lost?

The ho is dumb.

 

[xi0]

It's different points of view though, so it'd be confusing for someone like me who usually do things before thinking. I thought the show did a decent job of showing that, especially when she called Jaime the stupidest Lannister despite the shit she did. I don't know where the books left her at though, if it's not her being caught cheating.

But how much would he have killed before he'd have probably lost?

The ho is dumb.

Nah, they gave her too many redeemable qualities. And they didn't do a good enough job displaying her paranoia and desperation IMO.

She did the walk of shame and she was sort of a meek person in the Red Keep. I think the last PoV chapter we had with her was the walk itself. The other times you see her are from other PoVs.

Idk, as much as anyone else I guess.

 

[M3J]

probably just me, but any redeeming quality she had was gone by the last season. Going by the GoT Wiki, it does seem the show didn't do much about her paranoia.

What was she thinking/saying during the walk?

Probably far more than anyone, except for maybe the Clegane bros and Brienne.

 

[xi0]

probably just me, but any redeeming quality she had was gone by the last season. Going by the GoT Wiki, it does seem the show didn't do much about her paranoia.

What was she thinking/saying during the walk?

Probably far more than anyone, except for maybe the Clegane bros and Brienne.

Nothing, the Walk in the show was handled about as well as it could be, I guess.

It wouldn't really matter though, unless they were burnt. As far as the Others go though - Brienne does have Oathkeeper and Jaime has Widow's Wail, and I imagine that'll play a role in the show. Sam has Heartsbane too, though I doubt he'll wield it.

 

[M3J]

oh, so in the books she was just embarrassed to be walking naked in front of people?

I think Sam will use Heartsbane, he'll probably be forced to fight for Gilly, Sam Jr, and others. His development has actually been good, I went from hating the whiny idiot to respecting him and his ballsy ways.


Also, do you think we're hipsters for liking Starbucks coffee?

 

[xi0]

oh, so in the books she was just embarrassed to be walking naked in front of people?

I think Sam will use Heartsbane, he'll probably be forced to fight for Gilly, Sam Jr, and others. His development has actually been good, I went from hating the whiny idiot to respecting him and his ballsy ways.


Also, do you think we're hipsters for liking Starbucks coffee?

I think embarrassed is an understatement

I don't think he will, he's not a fighter. It'd be more valuable in the hands of someone else.

Who's "we"?

 

[M3J]

Oh. Cuz I was thinking she'd be enraged and plotting vengeance in her mind as well.

That is true, but if he has to face a Walker, how will he protect himself? Perhaps Bronn or Jorah might get the swod though.

You and I

 

[Crescent Jinx]

Also, do you think we're hipsters for liking Starbucks coffee?

Probably more hipster from being on mangahelpers than from liking Starbucks, honestly.

 

[M3J]

How so?

 

[Crescent Jinx]

How so?

Starbucks is too mainstream, and practically a household brand now. To be a hipster, you would need to be into something rare that more young people were... into...

 

[xi0]

Oh. Cuz I was thinking she'd be enraged and plotting vengeance in her mind as well.

That is true, but if he has to face a Walker, how will he protect himself? Perhaps Bronn or Jorah might get the swod though.

You and I

She was

An obsidian knife. Just like how he killed one the first time.

I don't really care about Starbucks. I couldn't even tell you the last time I was forced to go there. I brew my own in a plunger pot.

--- Double Post Merged, May 7, 2018, Original Post Date: May 7, 2018 ---

Probably more hipster from being on mangahelpers than from liking Starbucks, honestly.

MH... hipster?

 

[M3J]

Starbucks is too mainstream, and practically a household brand now. To be a hipster, you would need to be into something rare that more young people were... into...

Oh I see. So, like Frutti Bowl or w/e it's called?

She was

An obsidian knife. Just like how he killed one the first time.

I don't really care about Starbucks. I couldn't even tell you the last time I was forced to go there. I brew my own in a plunger pot.

--- Double Post Merged, May 7, 2018, Original Post Date: May 7, 2018 ---

MH... hipster?

Ah.

I thought he had something longer than a knife? I forgot though.

Plunger pot? You French press it?

Also, would you be on Captain America's side or Iron Man's?