Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Nemispelled]

Even if Igneel was weakened without a soul, Acnologia still managed to kill him. I don't see how Atlas Flame was stronger than Acnologia. Natsu, with Atlas' power wasn't able to slay Motherglare. Acnologia was able to slay multiple dragons 400 years ago, including one that almost killed Natsu in dragon cry.

As far as Acnologia vs August goes. Acnologia cannot be harmed by magic, and August is not immune to any holder magic. Acnologia would eat all of August's magic, and just bite him in half. Acnologia was able to survive the space between time, which should have been impossible to escape. It took the magical power of everyone on the whole continent to restrain him. Even that would have been temporary since Fairy Sphere does not last forever. It took Natsu defeating his mind to actually kill him, and Natsu had the magical power of all the dragon slayers - not to mention Natsu managed to defeat Zeref with Fairy Heart. So even if you say Acnologia is stupid, he's strong enough to plow through anything with brute strength and raw power unless you have Fairy Sphere backed up with the magic power of all of Ishgar. Acnologia has the best feats of any villain.

I don't see how killing a half-dead dragon is impressive, especially if you consider that Acnologia can take the form of a dragon himself. Igneel was already significantly weakened before their fight while Acnologia was capable of using a dragon's full potential.

Atlas Flame didn't slay Motherglare because his time was limited after the Eclipse Gate had been destroyed. He didn't show any signs of pushing his limit in that fight either (ex. suffering permanent injuries, exhaustion, fatigue).

Considering Acnologia wields the power to steal dragons' souls, I don't see how killing a bunch of low-tier dragons 400 years ago is anything out of the ordinary.

Zirconis stated that there were many other Ancient Dragon Slayers who could slay dragons just like Acnologia 400 years ago, during the GMG Arc.



As for Acnologia vs. August, I don't see what stops August from simply copying Acnologia's magic.

If August manages to copy Acnologia's magic, then he possesses the strongest form of dragon slaying magic.

Not only would he have access to all elements that Acnologia possesses, but a combination of his own magic + dragon slaying magic is more than enough to revert Acnologia back to his human form.

From there, August could vaporize him the same way Natsu defeated him in the manga.

 

[Axiomus]

Yes, but even without his soul, Igneel at the start of their fight would have been stronger than Natsu when he first faced Zeref. Natsu was only using what remained of Igneel's power after Igneel's fight with Acnologia. Igneel's power would have been stronger than Atlas Flame's power when Natsu used it. Acnologia didn't merely slay one dragon. He slayed a bunch of them. He practically solo'd the dragons at the Grand Magic Games. I just don't see how AF has better feats than Acnologia. Acnologia has larger roars, better physical strength, speed. He has a higher dragon and human kill count as well. Actually, I think Acnologia has the highest kill count in this entire series.

Spoiler: all the dragons sleeping here were murdered by that man, referring to Acnologia

Even if August can copy Acnologia's magic, he still wouldn't be as powerful as Acnologia himself in terms of magic power. Nobody has been able to revert Acnologia from his dragon form. Even Igneel knocking down and pinning him did not revert it. Even face's activation did not revert it. Even Fairy Heart did not revert it. Natsu didn't really fight Acnologia's physical human form either - he fought Acnologia's spirit. Acnologia only had to do that because he needed to stabilize the power within the time rift. Natsu may not have been able to beat Acnologia if he fought his physical form. Then there's the fact that Natsu only beat Acnologia's spirit form because Fairy Heart immobilized his spirit form from moving as well.

 

[Nemispelled]

Yes, but even without his soul, Igneel at the start of their fight would have been stronger than Natsu when he first faced Zeref. Natsu was only using what remained of Igneel's power after Igneel's fight with Acnologia. Igneel's power would have been stronger than Atlas Flame's power when Natsu used it. Acnologia didn't merely slay one dragon. He slayed a bunch of them. He practically solo'd the dragons at the Grand Magic Games. I just don't see how AF has better feats than Acnologia. Acnologia has larger roars, better physical strength, speed. He has a higher dragon and human kill count as well. Actually, I think Acnologia has the highest kill count in this entire series.

Spoiler: all the dragons sleeping here were murdered by that man, referring to Acnologia

Even if August can copy Acnologia's magic, he still wouldn't be as powerful as Acnologia himself in terms of magic power. Nobody has been able to revert Acnologia from his dragon form. Even Igneel knocking down and pinning him did not revert it. Even face's activation did not revert it. Even Fairy Heart did not revert it. Natsu didn't really fight Acnologia's physical human form either - he fought Acnologia's spirit. Acnologia only had to do that because he needed to stabilize the power within the time rift. Natsu may not have been able to beat Acnologia if he fought his physical form. Then there's the fact that Natsu only beat Acnologia's spirit form because Fairy Heart immobilized his spirit form from moving as well.

In terms of hype, Igneel's power may seem to be stronger than Atlas Flame's.

But in terms of feats, I would have to disagree. A fraction of half-dead Igneel's power had a tough time killing Base Zeref. Meanwhile, Atlas Flame's power was more than enough to put an actual dragon like Motherglare in critical condition.

Spoiler: Motherglare's condition after Atlas Flame's attack

Spoiler: Base Zeref's condition immediately after Igneel-powered attack

And in my opinion, Motherglare >> Base Zeref.



Acnologia's dragon kill count is indeed high, but that's only because he possesses the ability to extract dragon souls, which gives him the ultimate advantage against that particular "race".

When you look at it that way, Acnologia's raw power isn't as significant.

He clearly had an advantage over dragons. And Zirconis stated that there were many other ancient dragon slayers like Acnologia who could also slay dragons, which further undermines the impressiveness of Acnologia's capabilities.




As for August vs Acnologia:


Igneel mostly used physical attacks and a couple dragon roars during his fight with Acnologia in Tartaros. So naturally, that wouldn't be enough to revert Acnologia.

But August can use Acnologia's own dragon slaying magic against him, which will be effective because they are magic-based rather than mere physical attacks.

Not to mention, Acnologia's dragon slaying magic is the strongest type of its kind. It possesses nearly all elements.

And besides, I don't see what stops August from simply slaying Acnologia in his dragon form if reverting doesn't work. Eventually, the dragon slaying magic is bound to inflict major injury or exhaustion on Acnologia's dragon body.



Acnologia doesn't have the means to defeat August.

August can practically negate all of Acnologia's magic attacks and roars.

On top of that, his Copy Magic allows him to replicate and use dragon-tier roars/blasts, which will no doubt be very effective.

Using a combination of his own spells + attacks that he copied from Acnologia will most definitely give him the upper-hand, if not, the victory.

 

[Axiomus]

Igneel tore off Acnologia's arm. Atlas Flame's own attacks did nothing to Motherglare. Even when AF Natsu took down Motherglare, Motherglare wasn't crippled like Acnologia was. Acnologia tore a hole in Igneel, which is still more impressive than what Atlas Flame did to Motherglare. Natsu with Atlas' power struggled to fight evenly with Rogue. Natsu with Igneel's power can quite comfortably get the upper hand against Zeref.

Acnologia is immune to all magic, even dragon slaying magic. It's not like Igneel didn't try to use magic against him. He hit him with a roar, which did almost nothing. That roar would have had dragon-slaying properties. Igneel having to resort to using physical attacks just goes to show that magic doesn't really work against Acnologia. Even if August copied Acnologia's dragon slaying magic, he would still be limited by how much magical power he has. Irene is an August-level mage. and she's a dragon slayer. That should be the benchmark for what August would be like should he copy someone's dragon slaying magic. If he copies Acnologia's, he might get more elements... But it's not like he can turn into a dragon and out-fight Acnologia. Even if he does manage to turn into a dragon (which is honestly stretching it), he would probably be closer to Irene than Igneel.

Acnologia just needs one clean bite, and August would be missing half his limbs, if not swallowed whole. He has already proven he has hand to hand attacks faster than which August can react.

 

[Nemispelled]

Igneel tore off Acnologia's arm. Atlas Flame's own attacks did nothing to Motherglare. Even when AF Natsu took down Motherglare, Motherglare wasn't crippled like Acnologia was. Acnologia tore a hole in Igneel, which is still more impressive than what Atlas Flame did to Motherglare. Natsu with Atlas' power struggled to fight evenly with Rogue. Natsu with Igneel's power can quite comfortably get the upper hand against Zeref.

Acnologia is immune to all magic, even dragon slaying magic. It's not like Igneel didn't try to use magic against him. He hit him with a roar, which did almost nothing. That roar would have had dragon-slaying properties. Igneel having to resort to using physical attacks just goes to show that magic doesn't really work against Acnologia. Even if August copied Acnologia's dragon slaying magic, he would still be limited by how much magical power he has. Irene is an August-level mage. and she's a dragon slayer. That should be the benchmark for what August would be like should he copy someone's dragon slaying magic. If he copies Acnologia's, he might get more elements... But it's not like he can turn into a dragon and out-fight Acnologia.

Acnologia has already proven he has hand to hand attacks faster than which August can react. He just needs one clean bite, and August would be missing half his limbs.

The only reason why Acnologia tore a hole in Igneel in the first place is because Igneel is half-dead. Like you said, Igneel managed to tear off Acnologia's arm. That means, if Igneel was in his prime, he'd easily be able to kill Acnologia, making him definition of "top-tier".

Metalicana even told the DS that Igneel's reputation far exceeds his fight with Acnologia. Anologia wouldn't have been a worthy opponent for the Fire Dragon King had Igneel not been significantly weakened.

With Atlas Flame's power, Natsu was able to severely injure Future Rogue (who could barely move at the end).

And keep in mind, at the time, Future Rogue >>>> Natsu.

Atlas Flame's sole power was capable of almost knocking Motherglare unconscious.



Acnologia may be immune to dragon slaying magic overall, but from my understanding of dragon slayers, they aren't immune to their own dragon slaying spells.

August can use Acnologia's DS magic against him, because DS can't eat their own magic.

August may not have equal power to Acnologia, but his Magic Power is high enough to deal quite a bit of damage if he combines it with Acnologia's Dragon Slaying Magic.

The mere advantage/effectiveness of his attacks should give August the upper-hand.



Considering Acnologia's hand attacks couldn't kill Cobra, I highly doubt it would deal any major damage to August.

And imo, his "spirit" form shouldn't be too drastically different from his "human" form.

 

[Axiomus]

We don't know how strong Igneel was in his prime. Maybe he was close to full strength when he faced Acnologia. In any case, he still would have been stronger than Atlas Flame, considering Natsu come X792 is arguably stronger than Atlas Flame without Igneel's power. X792 Natsu slayed Animus.

Like you said, Igneel managed to tear off Acnologia's arm. That means, if Igneel was in his prime, he'd easily be able to kill Acnologia, making him definition of "top-tier".

Igneel tore out Acnologia's arm at the cost of half his body. Even if you say Igneel would be closer to Acnologia's level, that would just mean he would tear out a larger chunk of Acnologia's body at the cost of a smaller chunk of his own. Either way, I don't see any reason why Igneel would be leagues ahead of Acnologia. The most I can reasonably hype Igneel in his prime is being able to trade an arm for an arm with Acnologia.

Dragon Slayers can't eat their own magic, but if August copies his magic then it wouldn't really be Acnologia's magic. It would just be August using the same type of magic as Acnologia. Natsu can eat Igneel's magic, despite them having basically the exact same properties. Even if Acnologia can't eat their own magic, he can still negate it. Eating it is only necessary if he wanted a power-up. Natsu was able to negate August's heat spell, which was a copy of his magic. Natsu was arguably weaker than August at that time, assuming the Flames of Savage Emotions wasn't available to him at that time. Acnologia would be stronger than August. This would be on top of the fact that he's resistant to all types of magic. Acnologia couldn't kill any of the seven dragon slayers because he needed their power to control the time rift. He managed to knock down pretty much everyone but Natsu. Natsu is plot-shielded to the point that FH Zeref cannot keep him down, so Acnologia gets pass in my books.

 

[Nemispelled]

We don't know how strong Igneel was in his prime. Maybe he was close to full strength when he faced Acnologia. In any case, he still would have been stronger than Atlas Flame, considering Natsu come X792 is arguably stronger than Atlas Flame without Igneel's power. X792 Natsu slayed Animus.


Igneel tore out Acnologia's arm at the cost of half his body. Even if you say Igneel would be closer to Acnologia's level, that would just mean he would tear out a larger chunk of Acnologia's body at the cost of a smaller chunk of his own. Either way, I don't see any reason why Igneel would be leagues ahead of Acnologia. The most I can reasonably hype Igneel in his prime is being able to trade an arm for an arm with Acnologia.

Dragon Slayers can't eat their own magic, but if August copies his magic then it wouldn't really be Acnologia's magic. It would just be August using the same type of magic as Acnologia. Natsu can eat Igneel's magic, despite them having basically the exact same properties. Even if Acnologia can't eat their own magic, he can still negate it. Eating it is only necessary if he wanted a power-up. Natsu was able to negate August's heat spell, which was a copy of his magic. Natsu was arguably weaker than August at that time, assuming the Flames of Savage Emotions wasn't available to him at that time. Acnologia would be stronger than August. This would be on top of the fact that he's resistant to all types of magic. Acnologia couldn't kill any of the seven dragon slayers because he needed their power to control the time rift. He managed to knock down pretty much everyone but Natsu. Natsu is plot-shielded to the point that FH Zeref cannot keep him down, so Acnologia gets pass in my books.

I do agree that Igneel is stronger than Atlas Flame. But I cannot say the same for Acnologia, who I believe has sub-par feats compared to the former two dragons.

If Igneel was in his prime, not only would his defense go up, but his offensive stats would also drastically increase. Acnologia would be inferior in practically every single aspect..

We are talking about somebody who struggled just to catch up to Christina... in my opinion, he stands no chance against the Fire Dragon King.



Natsu being plot-shielded is one thing.. but being pushed into the timelapse by Christina (Ichiya & Anna) is an entirely separate blunder.

And I don't think August's fire pillar spell was a copy of Natsu's fire magic since that was their first encounter and Natsu never casted any heat spells in front of August prior to that confrontation.

As for August vs. Acnologia, fair enough. But with August constantly copying and canceling Acnologia's DS magic, I find it hard to believe that Acnologia will have the upper hand. August practically has access to Acnologia's weakness if he lands one hit.

Not to mention, August is capable of Reflector Magic, Gildartz's Cubing technique, and vaporizing an entire town like Magnolia.

 

[Arjuna]

The only reason why Acnologia tore a hole in Igneel in the first place is because Igneel is half-dead. Like you said, Igneel managed to tear off Acnologia's arm. That means, if Igneel was in his prime, he'd easily be able to kill Acnologia, making him definition of "top-tier".

Metalicana even told the DS that Igneel's reputation far exceeds his fight with Acnologia. Anologia wouldn't have been a worthy opponent for the Fire Dragon King had Igneel not been significantly weakened.

With Atlas Flame's power, Natsu was able to severely injure Future Rogue (who could barely move at the end).

And keep in mind, at the time, Future Rogue >>>> Natsu.

Atlas Flame's sole power was capable of almost knocking Motherglare unconscious.



Acnologia may be immune to dragon slaying magic overall, but from my understanding of dragon slayers, they aren't immune to their own dragon slaying spells.

August can use Acnologia's DS magic against him, because DS can't eat their own magic.

August may not have equal power to Acnologia, but his Magic Power is high enough to deal quite a bit of damage if he combines it with Acnologia's Dragon Slaying Magic.

The mere advantage/effectiveness of his attacks should give August the upper-hand.



Considering Acnologia's hand attacks couldn't kill Cobra, I highly doubt it would deal any major damage to August.

And imo, his "spirit" form shouldn't be too drastically different from his "human" form.

A Dragon Slayer can't eat his own spells or rather he won't get any power up from eating his own magic.

But that doesn't mean he can be harmed with his own element.For example Igneel can't be beaten with Fire DS Magic.

Natsu is nearly immune to his own Fire DS Magic.

 

[Nemispelled]

A Dragon Slayer can't eat his own spells or rather he won't get any power up from eating his own magic.

But that doesn't mean he can be harmed with his own element.For example Igneel can't be beaten with Fire DS Magic.

Natsu is nearly immune to his own Fire DS Magic.

The only way for Natsu to be immune to the element of fire is if he can eat it.

However, dragon slayers cannot eat their respective elements if it is from their own DS Magic. Just like how Natsu stated that he cannot eat his own DS flames, but has no problem eating the flames from other fire users.



Technically, Igneel can be beaten with Fire DS Magic if someone strong enough is using his own magic against him.

Igneel can consume fire and various heat-based spells from other wizards, but that doesn't mean he is "immune" to the element of fire. If flames actually penetrate his scales (i.e. he can't eat them), then it will no doubt inflict serious damage on his body.



The real "immunity" would be an Ice Mage's resistance to the element of ice.

For wizards like Silver, his immunity to ice has little to do with his DeS magic.

Since his body is trained to withstand extreme cold temperatures, then something like Gray's ice spells would naturally have no effect on him.

 

[Axiomus]

The only way for Natsu to be immune to the element of fire is if he can eat it.

However, dragon slayers cannot eat their respective elements if it is from their own DS Magic. Just like how Natsu stated that he cannot eat his own DS flames, but has no problem eating the flames from other fire users.



Technically, Igneel can be beaten with Fire DS Magic if someone strong enough is using his own magic against him.

Igneel can consume fire and various heat-based spells from other wizards, but that doesn't mean he is "immune" to the element of fire. If flames actually penetrate his scales (i.e. he can't eat them), then it will no doubt inflict serious damage on his body.



The real "immunity" would be an Ice Mage's resistance to the element of ice.

For wizards like Silver, his immunity to ice has little to do with his DeS magic.

Since his body is trained to withstand extreme cold temperatures, then something like Gray's ice spells would naturally have no effect on him.

Natsu didn't eat August's attack. He negated it. Even if he did eat it (which he didn't), that just meant August's copy of Natsu's magic was different enough so that he could eat it. Either way, Natsu negated enough of the attack that he, Lucy, and Happy all survived it. Acnologia only needs to negate enough of the attack so that his own inherent durability can tank it. Acnologia can already tank dragon slaying magic on the level of Igneel's roar without a scratch. Anything weaker than that would be no-sold.

Igneel can be beaten with fire dragon slaying magic if the user had more magical power than him. But none are. Acnologia can also be beaten if there was a dragon slayer with more magical power than him. Again, there really isn't one. Not one that can match his physical dragon form.

Gray wasn't immune to damage by ice. Nor was he immune to being frozen in general. Silver's resistance to ice came as a result of devil slaying magic. There was never any mention of Silver being a mage before he joined Tartarus. Silver's resistance to ice was greater than Gray's, at least until Gray obtained devil slaying magic for himself.

 

[Nemispelled]

Natsu didn't eat August's attack. He is resistant to fire. But if he did (which he didn't), that just meant August's copy of Natsu's magic was different enough so that he could eat it. Either way, Natsu negated enough of the attack that he, Lucy, and Happy all survived it. Acnologia only needs to negate enough of the attack so that his durability can tank it. Acnologia can already tank dragon slaying magic on the level of Igneel's roar. Anything weaker than that would be no-sold.

Igneel can be beaten with fire dragon slaying magic if the user was stronger than him. But none are.

Yes, I never doubted that Natsu can negate a fire attack from August. He has the power to control flames/heat to a certain extent, which explains why he was able to partially negate the heat-based properties from August's spell.

August never witnessed Natsu casting fire magic, so I doubt it was a copy of Natsu's magic.

The most likely scenario is that August's fire pillar was a variation of God Serena's Purgatory DS magic (fire element), since August was present when GS casted "Blazing Hell" on the GoI's.

August either copied it when God Serena used the spell or when he died at the hands of Acnologia.



I used to give Acnologia the benefit of the doubt and found it worthy that he could tank Igneel's roar.

But after his most recent performances in the last arc, I've come to the conclusion that Igneel's half-dead state was a lot more significant than I initially treated it to be. Metalicana heavily implied that Igneel was not at fault for being defeated by Acnologia.

It depends on what degree you think Igneel's "half-dead state" affected his ability to fight Acnologia.

Personally, I think that Igneel was severely weakened after his soul had been extracted. Acnologia tanking a roar from a dying Igneel is no longer impressive in my book.



As for your last statement: True, I agree. Which is why I consider Igneel to be a "top-tier" dragon. Nobody is strong enough to control Igneel's own flames against himself.

 

[Axiomus]

Yes, Natsu can negate a fire attack. He has the power to control flames/heat to a certain extent, which explains why he was able to partially negate the heat-based properties from August's spell.

August never witnessed Natsu casting fire magic, so I doubt it was a copy of Natsu's magic.

The most likely scenario is that August's fire pillar was a variation of God Serena's Purgatory DS magic (fire element), since August was present when GS casted "Blazing Hell" on the GoI's.

August either copied it when God Serena used the spell or when he died at the hands of Acnologia.



I used to give Acnologia the benefit of the doubt and found it worthy that he could tank Igneel's roar.

But after his recent performances, I've come to the conclusion that Igneel's half-dead state was a lot more significant than I initially treated it to be. Metalicana heavily implied that Igneel was not at fault for being defeated by Acnologia.

It depends on what degree you think Igneel's "half-dead state" affected his ability to fight Acnologia.

Personally, I think that Igneel was severely weakened after his soul had been extracted. Acnologia tanking a roar from a dying Igneel is no longer impressive in my book.



As for your last statement: True, I agree. Which is why Igneel is "top-tier" dragon in my ranking. Nobody is strong enough to control Igneel's own flames against himself.

The point being Natsu was able to cancel enough of August's spell (which should be a copy of his own fire dragon slaying magic), enough so that it did not harm Lucy or Happy. Acnologia only needs to cancel enough of August's attack so that it does not harm himself. Seeing as Acnologia can tank Igneel's roar without a scratch, any attack weaker than Igneel's roar would be no sold.

During Gildart's explanation, the melt spell was one of the spells mentioned to have been copied, and it featured Natsu in the same panel. Besides, it was never stated he needed to witness a magic to be able to copy it. Plus, August knew who Natsu was. He would have known what type of magic Natsu was going to use from the beginning. Why would it be God Serena's magic?

 

[Nemispelled]

Gray wasn't immune to damage by ice. Nor was he immune to being frozen in general. Silver's resistance to ice came as a result of devil slaying magic. There was never any mention of Silver being a mage before he joined Tartarus. Silver's resistance to ice was greater than Gray's, at least until Gray obtained devil slaying magic for himself.

I wasn't talking about Gray... I was talking about Silver.


And I was specifically referring to these panels:

Spoiler: Chapter 391

Here, Gray remembered that Natsu told him "Slayers cannot eat their own element".

So in order to hit Silver, Gray decided to channel Silver's DeS Ice through his own body and shoot it back at Silver, since he can't eat his own ice.

The ice ended up being useless against Silver.



And according to Silver on the 3rd page, it wasn't because he could not eat it... but simply, because ice has no effect on his body.

Silver could withstand the ice attack because Ice Mages naturally have high resistance to extreme cold temperatures. It has nothing to do with him eating the element like a normal DS would.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 10, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 10, 2017 ---

The point being Natsu was able to cancel enough of August's spell (which should be a copy of his own fire dragon slaying magic), enough so that it did not harm Lucy or Happy. Acnologia only needs to cancel enough of August's attack so that it does not harm himself. Seeing as Acnologia can tank Igneel's roar without a scratch, any attack weaker than Igneel's roar would be no sold.

During Gildart's explanation, the melt spell was one of the spells mentioned to have been copied, and it featured Natsu in the same panel. Besides, it was never stated he needed to witness a magic to be able to copy it. Plus, August knew who Natsu was. He would have known what type of magic Natsu was going to use from the beginning. Why would it be God Serena's magic?

Well, I don't see how August can copy a spell without knowing what it is.

The way his Copy Magic works is that he can instantaneously replicate and nullify an opponent's attack upon it being casted. Otherwise, it wouldn't be called "Copy Magic".

If he didn't need to witness/see it, it should've been called "Steal Magic".

August probably recognized Natsu because Zeref likely mentioned him prior to their invasion.



I assumed it's God Serena's Magic because God Serena is in possession of Purgatory DS Magic, which is based off of the element of fire/heat.

August was present when God Serena used it and stole his magic either when it was casted or after God Serena died.

 

[Axiomus]

I wasn't talking about Gray... I was talking about Silver.


And I was specifically referring to these panels:

Spoiler: Chapter 391

Here, Gray remembered that Natsu told him "Slayers cannot eat their own element".

So in order to hit Silver, Gray decided to channel Silver's DeS Ice through his own body and shoot it back at Silver, since he can't eat his own ice.

The ice ended up being useless against Silver.



And according to Silver on the 3rd page, it wasn't because he could not eat it... but simply, because ice has no effect on his body.

Silver could withstand the ice attack because Ice Mages naturally have high resistance to extreme cold temperatures. It has nothing to do with him eating the element like a normal DS would.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 10, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 10, 2017 ---

Well, I don't see how August can copy a spell without knowing what it is.

The way his Copy Magic works is that he can instantaneously replicate and nullify an opponent's attack upon it being casted. Otherwise, it wouldn't be called "Copy Magic".

If he didn't need to witness/see it, it should've been called "Steal Magic".

August probably recognized Natsu because Zeref likely mentioned him prior to their invasion.



I assumed it's God Serena's Magic because God Serena is in possession of Purgatory DS Magic, which is based off of the element of fire/heat.

August was present when God Serena used it and stole his magic either when it was casted or after God Serena died.

Slayers are not only immune to their elements because they can eat it. They have a natural resistance to their elements, regardless of whether or not they eat it. Case in point, Natsu never eat Jellal's fire attack. It still did not harm him.

Spoiler: Jellal's fireball

Silver is just pointing that out that just because he cannot eat ice, it still would not harm him. Nothing SIlver says implied what you're suggesting, which is that this resistant came from some other type of ice magic he learned. There was no evidence that Silver was a mage before Keith revived him. The only magic he's ever been shown using was devil slaying magic. Even if Silver had been an ice-mage, he certainly never learned it from Ur. Whose to say he trained in the same way Ur did, or even used ice-make magic? It's essentially saying that Silver's resistance to ice comes from a completely unknown type of magic that he learned offscreen, and that this magic gave Silver greater resistance to ice is than Gray, Lyon's or Ur. And what's all these assumptions for? Would it not be simpler just to say that Silver's resistance to his element is a trait of his slayer magic, like all other slayers being resistant to their elements? All of this is supposed to prove that Acnologia needs to eat an attack to be immune to it...Except he doesn't. Acnologia doesn't always eat spells that hit him. He didn't eat Igneel's roar, which did no damage to him. He didn't eat Laxus' attack either. Or Irene's. Or all of Fairy Tail on Tenrou Island.

Spoiler: Laxus' attack

August is able to copy hearing magic, which had no real form to speak of. It's not something you can really witness. He was able to copy slowing magic as well, which could just as easily have been mistaken for speed. In any case, August would have known that Igneel trained Natsu if he was in on Zeref's plans. He would have already known what magic Natsu was going to bring to the table, even if he didn't see it.

 

[Nemispelled]

Slayers are not only immune to their elements because they can eat it. They have a natural resistance to their elements, regardless of whether or not they eat it. Case in point, Natsu never eat Jellal's fire attack. It still did not harm him.

Spoiler: Jellal's fireball

While I do agree that Natsu has some control over fire, I don't think Jellal meant to inflict any harm on Natsu in that panel.

Jellal purposely wanted Natsu to eat the flames so that he could become stronger and launch a surprise attack on Zero. I wouldn't necessarily consider that "immunity" because Jellal could potentially cause damage if he intended for that attack to hurt.

Silver's case was a better representation of being immune "to his own magic" because he was forced to resist the attack instead of eating it.

Natsu may have tanked the flames, but they were Jellal's and not his own.

Nonetheless, I do acknowledge that Natsu can negate fire/heat-based spells to a considerable degree.

Silver is just pointing that out that just because he cannot eat ice, it still would not harm him. Nothing SIlver says implied what you're suggesting, which is that this resistant came from some other type of ice magic he learned. There was no evidence that Silver was a mage before Keith revived him. The only magic he's ever been shown using was devil slaying magic. Even if Silver had been an ice-mage, he certainly never learned it from Ur. Whose to say he trained in the same way Ur did, or even used ice-make magic? It's essentially saying that Silver's resistance to ice comes from a completely unknown type of magic that he learned offscreen, and that this magic gave Silver greater resistance to ice is than Gray, Lyon's or Ur. And what's all these assumptions for? Would it not be simpler just to say that Silver's resistance to his element is a trait of his slayer magic, like all other slayers being resistant to their elements? All of this is supposed to prove that Acnologia needs to eat an attack to be immune to it...Except he doesn't. Acnologia doesn't always eat spells that hit him. He didn't eat Igneel's roar, which did no damage to him. He didn't eat Laxus' attack either. Or Irene's. Or all of Fairy Tail on Tenrou Island.

Spoiler: Laxus' attack

According to Ur, it doesn't matter if you are an Ice-Make Mage or an Ice Devil Slayer - anybody who wields Ice Magic would have to be highly resistant to cold in order to effectively use the magic.

Spoiler: Ur's explanation

She essentially explains that, " The basics of Ice Magic is to be able to resist the cold ... In order to control the chill, you have to feel the chill "

For her and her students, it is to strip. Now obviously, not all Ice Mages use the same method of training.

So even though Silver did not follow in the exact same footsteps as Ur, it doesn't mean that he can forgo the basic principles of Ice Magic.

By the time he became an Ice Devil Slayer, whether by accident or on purpose, he would have already needed to possess a high resistance to extreme cold temperatures.

This can be foreshadowed in a more figurative sense by Silver's alias, Absolute Zero.




As for Acnologia tanking half-dead Igneel's roar, Irene, Fairy Tail, and Tenrou.... it doesn't necessarily prove that he is immune to magic.

It could just be that he has extremely high durability. Or it could mean that his opponents are just really weak. There are many factors involved in tanking attacks.

As for the panel with Laxus & Acnologia, I don't believe a single word that Acnologia said. It wasn't long after that when Natsu shattered him to pieces with a common form of magic.

August is able to copy hearing magic, which had no real form to speak of. It's not something you can really witness. He was able to copy slowing magic as well, which could just as easily have been mistaken for speed. In any case, August would have known that Igneel trained Natsu if he was in on Zeref's plans. He would have already known what magic Natsu was going to bring to the table, even if he didn't see it.

When I said "witness/see", I didn't exactly mean it in a physical sense.

Yes, August can't see Hearing Magic or Slowing Magic with his bare eyes.

But the point is that those magic spells were casted. Which gives August the opportunity to copy it and negate it.



I do agree with you that August likely would have known what magic Natsu possessed.

But I don't think August could do anything about it until Natsu casted a spell.

 

[Axiomus]

While I do agree that Natsu has some control over fire, I don't think Jellal meant to inflict any harm on Natsu in that panel.

Jellal purposely wanted Natsu to eat the flames so that he could become stronger and launch a surprise attack on Zero. I wouldn't necessarily consider that "immunity" because Jellal could potentially cause damage if he intended for that attack to hurt.

Silver's case was a better representation of being immune "to his own magic" because he was forced to resist the attack instead of eating it.

Natsu may have tanked the flames, but they were Jellal's and not his own.

Nonetheless, I do acknowledge that Natsu can negate fire/heat-based spells to a considerable degree.




According to Ur, it doesn't matter if you are an Ice-Make Mage or an Ice Devil Slayer - anybody who wields Ice Magic would have to be highly resistant to cold in order to effectively use the magic.

Spoiler: Ur's explanation

She essentially explains that, " The basics of Ice Magic is to be able to resist the cold ... In order to control the chill, you have to feel the chill "

For her and her students, it is to strip. Now obviously, not all Ice Mages use the same method of training.

So even though Silver did not follow in the exact same footsteps as Ur, it doesn't mean that he can forgo the basic principles of Ice Magic.

By the time he became an Ice Devil Slayer, whether by accident or on purpose, he would have already needed to possess a high resistance to extreme cold temperatures.

This can be foreshadowed in a more figurative sense by Silver's alias, Absolute Zero.




As for Acnologia tanking half-dead Igneel's roar, Irene, Fairy Tail, and Tenrou.... it doesn't necessarily prove that he is immune to magic.

It could just be that he has extremely high durability. Or it could mean that his opponents are just really weak. There are many factors involved in tanking attacks.

As for the panel with Laxus & Acnologia, I don't believe a single word that Acnologia said. It wasn't long after that when Natsu shattered him to pieces with a common form of magic.




When I said "witness/see", I didn't exactly mean it in a physical sense.

Yes, August can't see Hearing Magic or Slowing Magic with his bare eyes.

But the point is that those magic spells were casted. Which gives August the opportunity to copy it and negate it.



I do agree with you that August likely would have known what magic Natsu possessed.

But I don't think August could do anything about it until Natsu casted a spell.

Jellal is only one example. Natsu is resistant to fire in general, more-so than non-fire mages. Acnologia would be resistant to magic in general. Also, Natsu was only able to beat Acnologia after Fairy Sphere restricted him. It's likely that Fairy Sphere restricted his spirit form's ability to use magic or move. Acnologia was summoning power for an attack, but when he felt Fairy Sphere's effects all that magic disappeared. Since Acnologia's magic is what grants him immunity to magical attacks, getting cut off from it would explain why his spirit form was vulnerable to Natsu's attack. This is a special circumstance, as mere moments prior Acnologia was still knocking Natsu around. Besides, Natsu was the guy who overpowered Fairy Heart Zeref - and he received the magical power of all the other dragon slayers.

None of this really applies to Acnologia vs August: Acnologia wouldn't have to split his power in half, and August doesn't know Fairy Sphere. Not to mention, Fairy Sphere was going to fail if it was casted by just the people at Hargeon. It took Meredy linking everyone in Ishgar to create a sphere that could actually hold Acnologia. August would have to an amount of power he doesn't have... to use a spell he doesn't know...to fight a version of Acnologia that he would never had the opportunity of facing. Acnologia just needs to get a good bite on August.

This is why I brought up Gray earlier. Ur, Lyon, Gray were never shown to be completely immune to ice. They were able to resist colder temperatures more-so than non-ice mages. However, Lyon was still damaged and defeated by Gray's ice attacks. And Ur was defeated by Gray and Lyon's ice attacks. Gray in this arc has been damaged by Invel's ice attack, and it's likely Silver too would be damaged by Invel if Invel was around in X791. Even Invel was damaged and defeated by Gray's ice. None of them had the ability to come out completely unscathed from another ice attack.

 

[Nemispelled]

Jellal is only one example. Natsu is resistant to fire in general, more-so than non-fire mages. Acnologia would be resistant to magic in general. Also, Natsu was only able to beat Acnologia after Fairy Sphere restricted him. It's likely that Fairy Sphere restricted his spirit form's ability to use magic or move. Acnologia was summoning power for an attack, but when he felt Fairy Sphere's effects all that magic disappeared. Since Acnologia's magic is what grants him immunity to magical attacks, getting cut off from it would explain why his spirit form was vulnerable to Natsu's attack. This is a special circumstance, as mere moments prior Acnologia was still knocking Natsu around. Besides, Natsu was the guy who overpowered Fairy Heart Zeref - and he received the magical power of all the other dragon slayers.

None of this really applies to Acnologia vs August: Acnologia wouldn't have to split his power in half, and August doesn't know Fairy Sphere. Not to mention, Fairy Sphere was going to fail if it was casted by just the people at Hargeon. It took Meredy linking everyone in Ishgar to create a sphere that could actually hold Acnologia. August would have to an amount of power he doesn't have... to use a spell he doesn't know...to fight a version of Acnologia that he would never had the opportunity of facing. Acnologia just needs to get a good bite on August.

This is why I brought up Gray earlier. Ur, Lyon, Gray were never shown to be completely immune to ice. They were able to resist colder temperatures more-so than non-ice mages. However, Lyon was still damaged and defeated by Gray's ice attacks. And Ur was defeated by Gray and Lyon's ice attacks. Gray in this arc has been damaged by Invel's ice attack, and it's likely Silver too would be damaged by Invel if Invel was around in X791. Even Invel was damaged and defeated by Gray's ice. None of them had the ability to come out completely unscathed from another ice attack.

I was under the impression that Fairy Sphere just restricted his ability to move and defend himself from Natsu's attack. But I found the explanation of FS to be rather unclear anyways.

I've always interpreted Acnologia's immunity to be based off of his ability to eat any element. That's the reason why he absorbed so many dragon souls in the first place. They gave him immunity to magic.



If Acnologia was truly unaffected by magic, he wouldn't have been killed by Natsu's flames, knocked around by Erza's swords, and pushed back by Irene's enchantment blasts.

He could literally stand in the same position and take the full force of those spells instead of trying to defend himself from them.

Therefore, I simply attribute most of his "tanking feats" to his exceptionally high durability, not his immunity.

Acnologia might be able to pull off a victory if he can get a bite in, but considering his poor intelligence, I don't see that happening. Especially since August is a lot more tactical than Acnologia himself.



When I was talking about ice immunity, I was specifically referring to Silver, and not the other Ice Mages.

I completely agree with the idea that Ur, Lyon, and Gray are not immune to ice. Either their resistance isn't high enough or they don't have that rare attribute.

Silver, on the other hand, proved he was immune to ice when he tanked his own DeS ice instead of eating it.

Since slayers cannot eat their own ice, it is solid evidence that Silver possesses an unusually high resistance to ice magic.

 

[Axiomus]

I was under the impression that Fairy Sphere just restricted his ability to move and defend himself from Natsu's attack. But I found the explanation of FS to be rather unclear anyways.

I've always interpreted Acnologia's immunity to be based off of his ability to eat any element. That's the reason why he absorbed so many dragon souls in the first place. They gave him immunity to magic.



If Acnologia was truly unaffected by magic, he wouldn't have been killed by Natsu's flames, knocked around by Erza's swords, and pushed back by Irene's enchantment blasts.

He could literally stand in the same position and take the full force of those spells instead of trying to defend himself from them.

Therefore, I simply attribute most of his "tanking feats" to his exceptionally high durability, not his immunity.

Acnologia might be able to pull off a victory if he can get a bite in, but considering his poor intelligence, I don't see that happening. Especially since August is a lot more tactical than Acnologia himself.



When I was talking about ice immunity, I was specifically referring to Silver, and not the other Ice Mages.

I completely agree with the idea that Ur, Lyon, and Gray are not immune to ice. Either their resistance isn't high enough or they don't have that rare attribute.

Silver, on the other hand, proved he was immune to ice when he tanked his own DeS ice instead of eating it.

Since slayers cannot eat their own ice, it is solid evidence that Silver possesses an unusually high resistance to ice magic.

Fairy Sphere did restrict Acnologia's movement and made him unable to defend against Natsu, but it also stopped the attack he was going to use against Natsu. He was shown charging his power, and then it just stopped. So naturally, I assumed it stopped him from using any power against Natsu.

Acnologia has been shown to no-sell attacks without eating them. He's immune to magic because he's the Dragon of Magic. He has the same elemental resistance to any type of magic that a slayer has to their particular element. Again, Natsu has resistance to fire whether or not he eats it. Eating it replenishes him and can potentially gives him a power-up. Plus, there are times when Natsu is slow to react and eats the fire already it's already hit him. If you hit Natsu with a fireball, it's not like eating the flames is going to reverse time and undo the damage done to him.

Erza's swords and Irene's fireball did not actually damage Acnologia. They just pushed him around. Igneel's roar knocked Acnologia out of the sky, and yet Acnologia was said to be completely unharmed by it. Natsu's final attack was used against the spirit version of Acnologia that was weakened for whatever reason by Fairy Sphere. It's not as if Natsu did this against the dragon version of Acnologia, which didn't have to split his power in half, wasn't trying to keep him alive, and could actually fight.

Again, why assume that Silver's immunity to ice comes from a completely unknown type of magic that he learned offscreen when it can simply be explained by the fact that slayers are resistant to their own element? Gray essentially has all of Silver's power come X792, and he's arguably surpassed Silver in terms of raw power (which would influence both devil slaying magic and regular ice magic). Someone like Invel was still able to damage Gray with ice attacks. It's likely that Invel would be able to hurt Silver as well if they fought back in Tartarus.

 

[Nemispelled]

Fairy Sphere did restrict Acnologia's movement and made him unable to defend against Natsu, but it also stopped the attack he was going to use against Natsu. He was shown charging his power, and then it just stopped. So naturally, I assumed it stopped him from using any power against Natsu.

Acnologia has been shown to no-sell attacks without eating them. He's immune to magic because he's the Dragon of Magic. He has the same elemental resistance to any type of magic that a slayer has to their particular element. Again, Natsu has resistance to fire whether or not he eats it. Eating it replenishes him and can potentially gives him a power-up. It's not as if Natsu has managed to eat every fire attack that touches him. If you hit Natsu with a fireball, it's not like eating the flames is going to reverse time and undo the damage done to him.

Erza's swords and Irene's fireball did not actually damage Acnologia. They just pushed him around. Igneel's roar knocked Acnologia out of the sky, and yet Acnologia was said to be completely unharmed by it. Natsu's final attack was used against the spirit version of Acnologia that was weakened for whatever reason by Fairy Sphere.

Again, why assume that Silver's immunity to ice comes from a completely unknown type of magic that he learned offscreen when it can simply be explained by the fact that slayers are resistant to their own element? Gray essentially has all of Silver's power come X792, and he's arguably surpassed Silver in terms of raw power (which would influence both devil slaying magic and regular ice magic). Someone like Invel was still able to damage Gray with ice attacks. It's likely that Invel would be able to hurt Silver as well if they fought back in Tartarus.

From the panels, it looks like Acnologia's attack was already canceled before Fairy Sphere affected him:

Spoiler: There was no magic surrounding Acnologia's hands

I assume either the explosion was his attack or he canceled it himself for some unknown reason.

And Fairy Sphere only temporarily restricted his movement for a few seconds:

Spoiler: Acnologia moving during FS

You can see Acnologia was moving his left arm to block Natsu's attack, but forgot that Igneel already ripped it off.

It's really up to you whether you believe Acnologia is truly immune to magic.

I personally don't have much faith in that statement, given the last few chapters.




In regards to Silver, I don't really know what you mean by an "unknown type of magic that he learned offscreen".

His immunity to ice is simply explained by his unusually high resistance to that type of magic. It has more to do with the fundamentals of Ice Magic as a whole rather than what type of ice magic he uses.

Gray was already resistant to ice before obtaining DeS magic. However, after getting Silver's DeS magic, he didn't become any more immune to ice magic.

Silver's immunity is exclusive to himself and likely has something to do with having a rare attribute that gives him high resistance to ice.

 

[Axiomus]

From the panels, it looks like Acnologia's attack was already canceled before Fairy Sphere affected him:

Spoiler: There was no magic surrounding Acnologia's hands

I assume either the explosion was his attack or he canceled it himself for some unknown reason.

And Fairy Sphere only temporarily restricted his movement for a few seconds:

Spoiler: Acnologia moving during FS

You can see Acnologia was moving his left arm to block Natsu's attack, but forgot that Igneel already ripped it off.

It's really up to you whether you believe Acnologia is truly immune to magic.

I personally don't have much faith in that statement, given the last few chapters.




In regards to Silver, I don't really know what you mean by an "unknown type of magic that he learned offscreen".

His immunity to ice is simply explained by his unusually high resistance to that type of magic. It has more to do with the fundamentals of Ice Magic as a whole rather than what type of ice magic he uses.

Gray was already resistant to ice before obtaining DeS magic. However, after getting Silver's DeS magic, he didn't become any more immune to ice magic.

Silver's immunity is exclusive to himself and likely has something to do with having a rare attribute that gives him high resistance to ice.

The rocks were crumbling around Acnologia. That would be magic. Whether or not it was coming from his hands or not doesn't really matter. The point is that he was about to attack Natsu, and was stopped. It's odd that Acnologia would stop his own attack for no reason.

I believe Acnologia is as resistant to magic as Igneel is resistant to fire. If you want to harm Igneel with fire, you need to be above him in terms of magical power. Same with Acnologia.


There's no reason to assume that Silver was a mage before Keith revived him and had him learn devil slaying magic. Even if he did learn ice magic, it wouldn't be the same type of ice-magic that Gray, Lyon, and Ur learned. None of those 3 are completely immune to ice attacks either. Gray essentially inherited Silver's power when he obtained his magic power, and he wasn't completely immune to Invel's ice attacks either. If you're saying that Silver's immunity to ice doesn't come from his devil slaying magic and he didn't learn any other type of ice magic before learning DES, then how is that different from saying Silver is immune to ice "because he's Silver"?