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M3J

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Well, that's true. A friend's friend showed me his huge collection of guns in an attempt to argue against gun control... on the same post of a friend who showed the amount of mass shootings that happened in the US....
 

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And.... biden's approval is lower than his disapproval. Congrats democrats, you guys are killing it.
 

M3J

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They'll blame the left and the youth though.
 

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They should though, for not appealing to them at all
 
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M3J

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Libs disagree, and many will say that we should vote for the Dems anyway over the worse choice. And honestly, I agree. Would Trump have canceled taxes on unemployment and refunded the difference? He removed protection for LGBT+ people as well, while Biden put it back in place. Biden also canceled some student loan debt, even though it was for very obviously disabled people, if I remember correctly, whereas Trump probably wouldn't have done anything.

I mean, despite what many on the left say, I'd still rather have Biden over Trump or most other republicans.
 

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I'm not suggesting people pick someone like Trump over Biden, but losing congress is pretty likely the way this administration is going. GOP just plays PR better and it's not like there's a sizable amount of voters that even care about their shit and dishonest rhetoric. Conservatives are sociopaths and liberals are pussies, what else is new?
 

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I know you're not, but I'm annoyed with people on the left acting so extreme about voting and Biden. Otherwise we don't really disagree, and I think the Dems don't even care because at the core, they agree with REpublicans for the most part but pretend otherwise for support.
 

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It is completely clear that Biden did a good job domestically so far. The afghanistan withdrawal was a mess, but it would always have been a mess.
It was a larger mess than it needed to be if the Us administration had understood just how fast the Taliban would conquer Afghanistan, but i do not see how this dark hour of his presidency calls into question whether the democratic administration will push for domestic reform.
It does. It cannot do it has ambitiously as i'd like it to do, but that is not biden's fault. The fact that there even is a chance to get the big infrastructure deal going and not just the bipartisan package is a pretty amazing feat, so was the the first huge covid package.
 

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How is it clear he's done a good job domestically when he's not prevented people from being evicted, gave another stimulus, and canceled all student debt, for starters? If he was doing a good job, there'd be more left supporting him.
 

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It is completely clear that Biden did a good job domestically so far. The afghanistan withdrawal was a mess, but it would always have been a mess.
It was a larger mess than it needed to be if the Us administration had understood just how fast the Taliban would conquer Afghanistan, but i do not see how this dark hour of his presidency calls into question whether the democratic administration will push for domestic reform.
It does. It cannot do it has ambitiously as i'd like it to do, but that is not biden's fault. The fact that there even is a chance to get the big infrastructure deal going and not just the bipartisan package is a pretty amazing feat, so was the the first huge covid package.
I mean, what has biden done really? His administration feels entirely ineffective in general. Sure, he can't pass whatever he wants just because he is president but he isn't even giving the appearance of a fight for his policies. The infrastructure bill is a good example of him giving up IMO. They pretty much passed a republican bill. And if not that, the one republicans gave him permission for.
 
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I mean, what has biden done really? His administration feels entirely ineffective in general. Sure, he can't pass whatever he wants just because he is president but he isn't even giving the appearance of a fight for his policies. The infrastructure bill is a good example of him giving up IMO. They pretty much passed a republican bill. And if not that, the one republicans gave him permission for.
In a partisan environment with just very thin margins in house and senate, biden pushed through one of the most ambitious policy packages in the latest US history with the covid relief package, was able to find a bipartisan infrastructure deal even with a hostile GOP and has still chances to push through another very ambitious package

That is impressive. VERY impressive. That is not a feat you get if you do not fight like hell for it. Framing it as 'they passed a republican bill' does not do it justice. They assure that some part of it would get through by using the a bipartisan strategy. And that is not a GOP bill, most of the GOP did not want that to happen. If the GOP had ruled, nothing of it would have happened. The fact that the bigger infrastructure package is not dead yet is a feat not many politicians could have pulled off, the same goes for the covid package.

If you compare that to Trump or Obama (who simliarly suffered through a bipartisan senate), Biden already got a lot done, and a lot more than could have been expected with the hand he was given.
 

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I feel like you're way out of touch
 

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In a partisan environment with just very thin margins in house and senate, biden pushed through one of the most ambitious policy packages in the latest US history with the covid relief package, was able to find a bipartisan infrastructure deal even with a hostile GOP and has still chances to push through another very ambitious package

That is impressive. VERY impressive. That is not a feat you get if you do not fight like hell for it. Framing it as 'they passed a republican bill' does not do it justice. They assure that some part of it would get through by using the a bipartisan strategy. And that is not a GOP bill, most of the GOP did not want that to happen. If the GOP had ruled, nothing of it would have happened. The fact that the bigger infrastructure package is not dead yet is a feat not many politicians could have pulled off, the same goes for the covid package.

If you compare that to Trump or Obama (who simliarly suffered through a bipartisan senate), Biden already got a lot done, and a lot more than could have been expected with the hand he was given.
Nah, I call BS. Infrastructure is a major issue and one that even republican voters supported. And yet biden merely passed a measly republican bill which gutted a bunch of stuff democrats allegedly cared for. How is that a major victory? It's a minor one where democrats caved in in pretty much everything they could have caved in. It's not just about passing bills, democrats need to show they can fight for bills every bit as hard as republicans can.
 

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In a partisan environment with just very thin margins in house and senate, biden pushed through one of the most ambitious policy packages in the latest US history with the covid relief package, was able to find a bipartisan infrastructure deal even with a hostile GOP and has still chances to push through another very ambitious package

That is impressive. VERY impressive. That is not a feat you get if you do not fight like hell for it. Framing it as 'they passed a republican bill' does not do it justice. They assure that some part of it would get through by using the a bipartisan strategy. And that is not a GOP bill, most of the GOP did not want that to happen. If the GOP had ruled, nothing of it would have happened. The fact that the bigger infrastructure package is not dead yet is a feat not many politicians could have pulled off, the same goes for the covid package.

If you compare that to Trump or Obama (who simliarly suffered through a bipartisan senate), Biden already got a lot done, and a lot more than could have been expected with the hand he was given.
Original Proposal:



What ended up being passed after Democrats lubed up and bent over:



You can draw your own conclusions about how impressive this was. Well, it is definitely impressive how willing Democrats are to capitulate, can't deny that.
 
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M3J

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holy shit, I didn't know it was that bad. BUt somehow this is not shocking, given how BIden kept trying to buddy up to centrists and republicans even before winning the primary.
 

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If you want to take it as a political victory because he actually passed something, sure, go ahead. But this kind of pattern is the exact reason why someone like Trump was elected and why we now have an ostensibly feeble geriatric in office right now getting raked over the coals by all corners of the media.
 

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Original Proposal:



What ended up being passed after Democrats lubed up and bent over:



You can draw your own conclusions about how impressive this was. Well, it is definitely impressive how willing Democrats are to capitulate, can't deny that.
Yep... spineless fools the lot of them. Nancy Pelosi and her ilk most of all. Can't wait for the next session to pass however many billions republicans want for military spending in spite of the fact that the US just withdrew from a war.
 

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Nah, I call BS. Infrastructure is a major issue and one that even republican voters supported. And yet biden merely passed a measly republican bill which gutted a bunch of stuff democrats allegedly cared for. How is that a major victory? It's a minor one where democrats caved in in pretty much everything they could have caved in. It's not just about passing bills, democrats need to show they can fight for bills every bit as hard as republicans can.
What republican voters support does not matter here. The GOP didnt. Biden passed more than most of the GOP was comfortable with already, and that is a major victory because it does not exclude the fight for the bigger package. The fact alone that this bigger package is not dead even tho they have a margin of zero room for error is already a major feat.

Calling that 'caving in' is a denial of reality. Trump was not able to get anything as major as that through, because if inner GOP resistances. He was able to do the tax cut and that was that. Yes, trump was able to get judges he liekd and all that, but as far as policy is concerned, Biden's job so far has been absolutely stellar. There was no room to get more done in that field than biden did, plain and simple.
And there was a lot of room to get nothing done if they had not played their cards right.

You can draw your own conclusions about how impressive this was. Well, it is definitely impressive how willing Democrats are to capitulate, can't deny that.
This is a huge misrepresentation tho because it excludes the fact that the far larger package is not dead yet. What democrats did there was already more than republicans were willing to do, and they already got it done. You basically blame democrats for the fact that they went with a route that makes it possible to get the larger package done instead of wanting to get it in one go and fail.
And that is not a rational thing to do.

The democrat plan to make some of the infrastructure package bipartisan means that less has to be done via reconciliation, which means the larger package has a better chance of passing. Had they not done that, you would have got nothing or even less with zero chance of anything remotely green or social passing. Why would that be good?
 

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What republican voters support does not matter here. The GOP didnt. Biden passed more than most of the GOP was comfortable with already, and that is a major victory because it does not exclude the fight for the bigger package. The fact alone that this bigger package is not dead even tho they have a margin of zero room for error is already a major feat.

Calling that 'caving in' is a denial of reality. Trump was not able to get anything as major as that through, because if inner GOP resistances. He was able to do the tax cut and that was that. Yes, trump was able to get judges he liekd and all that, but as far as policy is concerned, Biden's job so far has been absolutely stellar. There was no room to get more done in that field than biden did, plain and simple.
And there was a lot of room to get nothing done if they had not played their cards right.



This is a huge misrepresentation tho because it excludes the fact that the far larger package is not dead yet. What democrats did there was already more than republicans were willing to do, and they already got it done. You basically blame democrats for the fact that they went with a route that makes it possible to get the larger package done instead of wanting to get it in one go and fail.
And that is not a rational thing to do.

The democrat plan to make some of the infrastructure package bipartisan means that less has to be done via reconciliation, which means the larger package has a better chance of passing. Had they not done that, you would have got nothing or even less with zero chance of anything remotely green or social passing. Why would that be good?
I mean, those are technically out there... But how much of that do you think democrats will actually fight for? If this is how democrats advance it'll take 40 biden presidencies until the breadcrumbs amount to something. As for trump... Say what you will but during his presidency there was plenty of legislation which was passed which was important to his base and republicans in general even if sure, on infrastructure they gave up because comically they couldn't afford it due to tax cuts (which were not even THAT popular).
 

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mean, those are technically out there... But how much of that do you think democrats will actually fight for? If this is how democrats advance it'll take 40 biden presidencies until the breadcrumbs amount to something. As for trump... Say what you will but during his presidency there was plenty of legislation which was passed which was important to his base and republicans in general even if sure, on infrastructure they gave up because comically they couldn't afford it due to tax cuts (which were not even THAT popular).
I think democrats already fought extremely hard for it. The fact that it is still out there means that pelosi, schumer, sanders and biden (and others of course) put insane efforts into keeping it alive.
And what biden did so far are not breadcrumbs. I really do not know how it can be called that way. The covid package was major legislation, which amounts to far, far, far more than the things trump did. Yes, trump passed some legislation his base liked, but they were all relatively minor things aside from his tax cut.
Trump was not able to destroy ACA even tho he had all branches of government with a better margin than biden has. That longstanding republican goal, just because they were inept.

Democrats, on the other hand, already got a lot done with the covid package and are looking for another major win with the infrastructure plan, but freak out because manchin might cut it down, while they think trump got major wins even tho one of the republican mainprojects, destroying ACA, was stopped in a republican controlled government.

That is some major warped view. Republicans, under trump, got very little done. They took more power via the judges, but as far as legistlation goes, they failed. Biden however, in an environment that leaves zero room for error and with a democrat party that is divided between the manchins and the AOCs, is able to somehow navigate this party to pass major legislation in a VERY difficult process of reconciliation. That is a huge feat and seeing it as breadcrumbs or thinking they are not fighting hard for it is just untrue and nothing else.
 
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