Politics American Politics

ninjabot

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Jubei_Kibagami

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It's ALMOST like the courts can work successfully time to time.



Anyone that was reasonable could have seen both cases playing out exactly like they did.
 

xi0

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A little snark based on someone responding to someone that's constantly pushing a false narrative and everyone plays their high-horse card. Laughable.
The snark wasn't really about one person though was it? I mean, "you guys" implies there's no real discussion going on here, does it not? Why are you still bothering to reply then? Kind of a self-own isn't it?
 

Jubei_Kibagami

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The snark wasn't really about one person though was it? I mean, "you guys" implies there's no real discussion going on here, does it not? Why are you still bothering to reply then? Kind of a self-own isn't it?
Oh, gee golly, and here I thought I was getting the silent treatment. I'll just wait to see more responses to me from people that don't have the balls (not you, not now) to reply directly when they are in fact responding to what I said. Kind of cowardly, no?

That said, I was referring to people like the person right before me (again, not you). People like him. This was beyond clear as I had responded specifically to points HE specifically made. I didn't see you or anyone else talking about what had been said (nor did I see you or anyone else correcting him, but that's another issue isn't it?).

You know, the guy that went out of his way to repeatedly signal he wasn't responding to me anymore to everyone that would listen. Because that is the order of events chronologically.

If the shoe fits for anyone else, however, well, that would be unfortunate.

I'm obviously talking about groups of people ignoring groups of people. Seeing as I'm one person and there's no group arguing the counterpoints here per se, I'm talking about the general sense - not limited to this forum.

(some) People (in general, but myself included) find that people like that (an individual but also representative of many more - here or elsewhere isn't the point) a lost cause seeing as they refuse to address pointed, direct questions, ignore facts, gloss over valid points, repeat talking points ad nauseum, etc etc.
 

M3J

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This is a problem democrats have had since obama's presidency ended. Their only message is basically "hey, at least we aren't republicans. We are maybe republicans light".
Right now it's, "at least we're not Trump!" even though Biden is proving he's SLIGHTLY better than Trump, and only because he doesn't say stupid shit or is openly bigoted.




Sir.

Your chariot has arrived ^


:toc
*sigh*

the right/republicans want safe spaces way more than the left. Trump and his supporters cried when Trump got booed at Hamilton, and he said theaters should be a safe space. And the irony of you and that Jubei talking about false narratives and echo chamber is that you and your ilk only listen to what you agree with and see that as the truth. You'll read InfoWars and Breitbart and listen to Fox News as long as they agree with you, no matter how much they lie and spread false narratives.

Jesus fucking Christ, the way you guys will project onto others you disagree with. So embarrassing.

The snark wasn't really about one person though was it? I mean, "you guys" implies there's no real discussion going on here, does it not? Why are you still bothering to reply then? Kind of a self-own isn't it?
Probably likes the attention
 

Jubei_Kibagami

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Right. *My* posts are all categorically strawman arguments and attention seeking.

*Yours* are virtuous, fact-based, and God's own work.

Says the guy too passive aggressive to comment directly.

*sigh*
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Jesus fucking Christ, the way you guys will project onto others you disagree with. So embarrassing.
Lol irony.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

OMGOSH WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY 'YOU GUYS'?? reeeeeeeeeee
 

Sanity Check

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...


Here comes that death to america thing.

Many of you support.


:hurr


I hope you're all rich and well prepared.

As your indifferent and apathetic stance would seem to indicate.
 
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M3J

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That's their problem for choosing not to get vaccine. Imagine if people refused polio vaccine back then, or if children refused vaccines mandatory to attend school
 

kkck

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...


Here comes that death to america thing.

Many of you support.


:hurr


I hope you're all rich and well prepared.

As your indifferent and apathetic stance would seem to indicate.
More apathetic and indifferent than people refusing the vaccine?
 

Sanity Check

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That's their problem for choosing not to get vaccine. Imagine if people refused polio vaccine back then, or if children refused vaccines mandatory to attend school
More apathetic and indifferent than people refusing the vaccine?


#1 Vaccines

#2 Not destroying the US economy

You seem to think #1 is a higher priority.

Democrats can simply abandon lockdowns and vaccine mandates. We have already witnessed the devastation wrought upon the airlines industry and other sectors of the economy by democrat COVID lockdowns and mandates. Why would anyone choose to repeat such disasters in US supply chains?

Democrats entire stance revolves around a flawed unscientific premise that says the vaccinated are more vulnerable to COVID than the unvaccinated.

"We have to vaccinate everyone to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated." --democrats

Its tragic how the majority of people don't know basic science enough to identify glaring flaws in that narrative.


:toc
 

kkck

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#1 Vaccines

#2 Not destroying the US economy

You seem to think #1 is a higher priority.

Democrats can simply abandon lockdowns and vaccine mandates. We have already witnessed the devastation wrought upon the airlines industry and other sectors of the economy by democrat COVID lockdowns and mandates. Why would anyone choose to repeat such disasters in US supply chains?

Democrats entire stance revolves around a flawed unscientific premise that says the vaccinated are more vulnerable to COVID than the unvaccinated.

"We have to vaccinate everyone to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated." --democrats

Its tragic how the majority of people don't know basic science enough to identify glaring flaws in that narrative.


:toc
Ah come on, this post is just gaslighting...
 

Sanity Check

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Ah come on, this post is just gaslighting...

The spam people post.


When they do not know enough logic or science to attempt a credible response.


:invalid
 

kkck

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The spam people post.


When they do not know enough logic or science to attempt a credible response.


:invalid
So... gaslighting about gaslighting? Gasception?
 

M3J

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#1 Vaccines

#2 Not destroying the US economy

You seem to think #1 is a higher priority.

Democrats can simply abandon lockdowns and vaccine mandates. We have already witnessed the devastation wrought upon the airlines industry and other sectors of the economy by democrat COVID lockdowns and mandates. Why would anyone choose to repeat such disasters in US supply chains?

Democrats entire stance revolves around a flawed unscientific premise that says the vaccinated are more vulnerable to COVID than the unvaccinated.

"We have to vaccinate everyone to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated." --democrats

Its tragic how the majority of people don't know basic science enough to identify glaring flaws in that narrative.


:toc
Yes because making sure people don't get sick and/or die is pretty important, and you'd think a party that claims to be pro-life would be aware of this. Besides, if too many people get sick and/or die, isn't that going to hurt the economy? Although, constantly using economy as an excuse is stupid.

Didn't the lockdowns happen under Trump though? And then the government gave airlines money to prevent layoffs, but the airlines laid off people anyway, like lying, greedy shits they are? The devastation is the airlines' own fault as well as the people that refuse to get vaccinated.

It's tragic how people who know nothing about science argue against the vaccine or make up stuff about the vaccine. I've yet to hear any Democrat actually say that about the vaccinated though.
 

ninjabot

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Sanity Check said:
Here comes that death to america thing.

Many of you support.

At the end of the day, it's those trucker's choices whether they sacrifice their jobs or not. No one's making them quit. You could call it coercion, sure, but coercion is a big part of how we motivate people to live and act in the interest of society at large.

Likewise, you do understand that these lost jobs wouldn't be permanently lost, correct? That there are those who will pick up these jobs?

EDIT: Lol, wait a minute. In that article:

article said:
The survey “came back as 37% of drivers not only said 'no,' but 'hell no,'” Spear testified. “It’s not about being anti-vax — we’ve been moving the vaccine test kits.”
"If we were anti vax, we wouldn't deliver the vaccine test kits you guys are making." No. No, that's not how that works. That'd be like one of them saying "You can't consider me an atheist! I deliver bibles all the time!" That's got nothing to do with their own personal beliefs.
 
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Jubei_Kibagami

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No one's making them quit. You could call it coercion, sure, but
(emphasis added)



Gotta love the immediate self-contradiction.

Seriously, the mental gymnastics used to justify increasingly draconian measures is honestly lost on you and yours, isn't it?

I mean, the abundant hypocrisy of the left aside (this sub seems to be fertile ground for it), some of us remember when the left was:

- against big gov coercion (I mean you could call it coercion, but... lolololol)
- against medical fascism (in all its forms)
- against yielding to big corporate interests
- against conflict of interests in lawmaking, and money in politics
- against edicts from clear corporatocracy
- against plutocrat dictates (now they're elevated as new gods)
- pro worker rights
- supportive of the exploited and oppressed - prols
- pro mah-body-mah-choice

Do you remember? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

It's OK, they're doing it to themselves! (their choice is comply or kick rocks, how lovely) and the jobs will just get filled by other beat-down, complying Good Little Germans. Typical Collectivist Cult shit. Wowowow, could 'you guys' be any more transparent?
 

M3J

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I love how the right got so offended when liberals and the left called detention facilities concentration camps, which they are for immigrants and migrants, claiming it's offensive to the Jewish people (who themselves said they were concentration camps), but they have no problem claiming the treatment against anti-vaxxers is like the Holocaust happening again, even though anti-vaxxers aren't being killed or mistreated, just judged for being okay with putting others at risk.

LOVE THE IRONY AND LOGIC
 

kkck

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At the end of the day, it's those trucker's choices whether they sacrifice their jobs or not. No one's making them quit. You could call it coercion, sure, but coercion is a big part of how we motivate people to live and act in the interest of society at large.

Likewise, you do understand that these lost jobs wouldn't be permanently lost, correct? That there are those who will pick up these jobs?

EDIT: Lol, wait a minute. In that article:



"If we were anti vax, we wouldn't deliver the vaccine test kits you guys are making." No. No, that's not how that works. That'd be like one of them saying "You can't consider me an atheist! I deliver bibles all the time!" That's got nothing to do with their own personal beliefs.
Welp, the current situation is that the jobs are there. Companies at large just can't find workers to fill the positions for a variety of reasons (with the bigger one so far being "I can't take this 7.25 USD/hour during a pandemic bs anymore"). I don't take issue with the government using this type of coercion to force to get people to act on public health issues but the reality right now is that companies and the government have a weak hand here.
 

Jubei_Kibagami

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I love how the right got so offended when liberals and the left called detention facilities concentration camps,
It's not a position unique to the right. EVERYONE should be against the abuse and policing of language, buzzwords, memes as a means of news.

'Concentration camps' evokes WW2 imagery. On purpose. They are in no way even comparable, and anyone with a functioning brain knows this.

Besides, Godwin's Law would like a word with you and yours.

which they are for immigrants and migrants,
No. You're a walking lefty meme (or at least your posts are). Which is to say uninformed and unfunny.

Semantics arguments being used as a political cudgel, how typical. Again, evoking comparisons to WW2 over what's happening at the border (for practically every administration, look out for the return of Stay in Mexico by creepy uncle Joe) is absurdist.

claiming it's offensive to the Jewish people (who themselves said they were concentration camps),
No self-respecting Jew (omg 'no true scotsman') would draw comparisons in an objective sense, at the very least when it comes to severity and outcomes. Newsflash - there is no Jewish collective that speaks as a whole, so your anecdotal usage of one or two Jews making the comparison is, as usual, laughable. Also, there exist Jews that love to use their heritage as a playing card (something I thought the left is generally against?), and twist things for political aims. Left-leaning Jews could just as easily say they are "concentration camps" as a swipe at the right, or whoever's in office du jour that they want to put political pressure on.

That in no way makes them comparable in the macro sense, severity, outcome, conditions, origin, or optics in any way at all. In spite of how hard you try to draw similarities for political points.

but they have no problem claiming the treatment against anti-vaxxers is like the Holocaust happening again,
No one should invoke Godwin's Law, unless they are doing it ironically. The left seems very serious in their extremist comparisons of EVERYTHING to Nazi Germany however.

So no one that's reasonable, at any level, should be claiming it's anywhere near Holo-levels, because it clearly isn't.

That said, there are arguments about Nuremberg Code violations that were put in place for a reason. It doesn't have to be an 11 on a ten-scale in extreme to still be a problem, slippery slope aside. A '2' on a 10 scale (arbitrary) is still a problem. Govt responses should never even register.

even though anti-vaxxers aren't being killed or mistreated,
Forcing a medical treatment, however benign and harmless you pretend it is, is a form of mistreatment. If even only at the level of principle, let alone necessity, risk assessment, and requirements to do simple tasks such as shop, congregate, be educated, work, travel, vote, etc etc

The left, your ideology, USED to be against such things.

just judged for being okay with putting others at risk.
Judge away. I've probably forgotten more (as a relative layman) than you'll ever know when it comes to The Science (tm) of what's going on here, and no I don't mean getting notes from far-right sources and memes (although that's probably the case for yourself from the other end of the spectrum) (I'm the first to mention covid at all here btw - I was watching it and planning accordingly before it was probably even on your radar). You don't need an epidemiology degree to look at studies, medical journals, and so forth and draw conclusions - including ones that are just common sense (why aren't the life insurance companies freaking out, raising rates, etc., what happened to the flu deaths, why is all-cause mortality comparable to just a few years ago,, etc etc etc)

But shout out to credentialism in advance since that seems to be the go-to, knee-jerk argument. (we both know you won't even respond, directly at least, because cowardice and lack of being informed enough to form a cogent counterargument...)

I'm a pure blood, always will be, are zero threat to you, always have been but for a small blip where I self-isolated, and monitor my antibody levels. Because I hate all grandmas and secretly wish for their collective deaths, of course.

It's hilarious to me that in spite of current trends you and yours still worship the jab so much that you truly believe the absence of one makes you a threat to others. Cult shit. Seriously.

The jab is only for YOURSELF - and the need should be determined on a case-by-case basis. (age, general health, weight, occupation, risk exposure, risk tolerance, negative reactions in the past, lifestyle, family environment, and - omg - yes, even religious exemptions basis)

LOVE THE IRONY AND LOGIC
Oh, I absolutely do. We certainly agree here, but not for the reason you think.

Welp, the current situation is that the jobs are there. Companies at large just can't find workers to fill the positions for a variety of reasons (with the bigger one so far being "I can't take this 7.25 USD/hour during a pandemic bs anymore"). I don't take issue with the government using this type of coercion to force to get people to act on public health issues but the reality right now is that companies and the government have a weak hand here.
Yes, yes. There are ALWAYS confounding factors. Nothing is generally as simple as a singular cause.

- ability to sit on ass now as unemployment has been extended in many areas
- occupational changes during lockdowns
- the Genie is out of the bottle for working remotely
- and more

That doesn't negate that firings put a NEGATIVE PRESSURE on filling job vacancies, or maintaining existing jobs.

It's almost as if there's a lot going on, unintended consequences are a real thing, agendas abound, not everyone is best served by a one-size-fits-all solution, and that economies are large, complex, and dynamic.




I'm shocked that you too are OK with coercion from the government.


Edit:
Oh, and a trucking shortage doesn't just materialize overnight. Because that is the one industry vertical that was being discussed. This is a job that can't be outsourced or worked remotely (at least not yet), and is considered 'good-paying' enough to have generally been uninfluenced by the siren's song of staying at home on unemployment instead of continued work. It's also a job that is by default in isolation, so there's no reason to keep truckers home. Many literally don't even have to get out of their truck at this point to do their job.
 
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xi0

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"We have to vaccinate everyone to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated." --democrats

Its tragic how the majority of people don't know basic science enough to identify glaring flaws in that narrative.
Is that the narrative? Or is that just how you prefer framing it in order for it to go against the "basic science" you want to speak about?

You'd have a lot more of my respect if you just chalked it up to a bog-standard personal freedom argument without invoking science. Muddying the waters by cherry-picking data is just manipulative behavior.
 
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