Info Attention to International Manga Editors!

[thedarkoneaox]

I just want to say thanks to all those who work hard at bring the manga to us for our enjoyment, also thanking those who help make and maintain this site plus the forums. I myself understand why the groups would like to be mentioned in the other translations because Im a DJ and I know if Im at a party and I hear another dj do a mix that I know he got from me yet he pretending its his it does kind of get to me. It used to get to me to the point where I wanted to straight up battle him/her at a party just to embarrass him/her. However a friend of mines pointed out that it should be more amusing than irratating. She went to say that its like your raising your child, you should be more amused and happy when they mimic your actions. So take it from that like, your just raising a young group trying to make it out. But hey its your work, your time, and just my opinion cause as I said I see both sides of the coin. Much love to everyone.
R.I.P DJ K Swift - We will miss you girl...

 

[unok-kun]

After reading all of this thread, I don't really know what to say first...

Well, first of all, most English Edited Manga groups do credit the mangaka, even if they don't put the name romanized, they keep it in Japanese (except for some cases where the name is out of the panels and is unwantedly covered by the rebordering). And we all know, and all leechers know (I hope so) that we don't make the manga. If they want to know who is the author or the publishing company or the magazine in which that manga is, they can find it easily searching the web.

Now, we English Manga Editors take our time to clean the raws and give them quality (lower or higher, but always better than the raw untouched, except for some speedy shitty scans), and some of us pay for the raws that we get. The least we can ask for is a credit. And that credit should be provided by following the rules we want, since after all, if you don't like our rules, just don't use our scans.

Now, for international Edited Mangas, people can't know who they took the manga from, without a credit page. If they use our scans, since we've cleaned them, they should aknowledge us, just like we aknowledge the mangakas. It's not such a bother to add a damn credit page, imho. If the group requests you to add a mention to them, if you don't have a credit page of your own, you can just add a mention in one of the pages, it's not that hard. And if they request you to add their credit page, is it really such a bother to take a file and add it to the release unchanged, when you've already taken all other files in the English release and modified them...?

About watermarks and forbidding: I'm completely against that. But have in mind that Manga Editors do that because they're sick of international releases using their cleaning without a single credit. If you were in the same situation, what would you do? And besides, if international Manga Editors credited the English groups in the first place, there would be no watermarks and no forbidding at all in any group. The problem about that starts only in the international Manga Editors who don't credit, not in the "selfish" English Manga Editors.

As an addition: I've been an international translator and Manga Editor myself, so I know by first-hand.

And I think that's all I wanted to say... Maybe I missed some points though.

 

[eni]

MangaHelpers may have had it as a rule since 3 years ago, but an imperfect rule up till now because it wasn't enforced, so hence the reason why complaints should start now. I see no point in complaining about a rule that isn't being enforced, so that's why you didn't see people complaining before.

We enforce the rule. And we do it the very same way since over two years.

First time we warn, second time we ban the group in question for a month. Third time it's a permanent bye-bye from mangahelpers.

But we don't have the staff to go frequently on patrol, so we have to rely on reports. It's impossible for us to look at every int scan and compare it to every english scan and having every group policy out there in mind, hoping to find a possible stealing case.

Just for clarification.

Also, the reason why many groups ask you to keep the credit page in the release is because the credit page often contains information on the mangaka and the request to BUY the manga. Keeping the credit page in is a way for the group to control that the following group is encouraging their readers to do so as well.

And I honestly fail seeing why people have a problem to give credit when they use someone else work. That's a simple matter of politeness. If you don't want to credit anyone, go and clean the raws yourself *shrugs*

Seriously, that the raws ain't publicy available (very rare, nowadays!) isn't an excuse. The group you take the scans from paid the books themself in that case and so can you.

 

[miknimator]

This is the most hypocritical argument I ever read.

@unokpasabaxaki,

So you buy ONE copy of the manga book (which contains a big number of mangas which basically makes every manga in there to cost pennies.) and then you do one hour's worth of cleaning on it (after you apply the algorithm to smooth the images)
and then distribute it to millions of people FOR FREE!!!!! and then YOU want credit?

Giving the Mangaka's credit does not mean that you are A-Ok with them. You still rob them of their money.

And they worked 10 times harder then you.

Credits mean NOTHING in this game after you distribute something --that costs a lot of money to the real creator-- for free on the internet.

what exactly bothers you with other people using your "work"? They are doing the same to as you do to the mangaka.

You rob the mangaka of his hard earned money and then you cry about someone not crediting you for one hour work? Give me a break. You guys are hypocrites.

I used to clean pages for Shannaro! back in 2006/ 2007 if I remember the year correctly. I was credited on almost all those Edited Mangas even when I didn't clean or do anything at all. I sometimes wasn't credited on chapters where I did the whole thing (cleaning typesting, QCing) other then translating. And a lot of people (specially in my country) were using our Edited Mangas with their language on it.

I don't think any of us cared.

This whole thing is a non-issue. I think you guys should get of your high horse and realize that you're on the internet and that this WILL happen even if you don't want it to and that you also you don't deserve to. If you remember the case of DB and Youtubers uploading their episodes on YouTube despite the constant warnings from DB. They did it just to fuck with DB. You will get the same because you did that to the mangaka.

 

[eni]

So you buy ONE copy of the manga book (which contains a big number of mangas which basically makes every manga in there to cost pennies.) and then you do one hour's worth of cleaning on it (after you apply the algorithm to smooth the images)
and then distribute it to millions of people FOR FREE!!!!! and then YOU want credit?

Copyright does allow you to share your copy of the book within a private circle but also restricts you to keep this in check. One of the reasons why particulary shoujo groups prefer a closed communtiy sharing of their Edited Mangas. It actually keeps it within a legal zone.

The wide majority of manga out there has only a couple of hundred, if ever, readers. Just because it's online available doesn't mean that many people actually read it. Millions? Please. Don't make the scene bigger as it is. There's a reason why so many of us active ones know each other by names.

On the 'high horse' are, IMHO, the people who take everything for granted and use the 'it's the internet' excuse to leech of others without spending a single thought on the actual reasons and backgrounds. Most groups who put restrictions on their releases do this to keep the spreading in check as a form of politness towards the mangaka. They do it to ensure that the manga is promoted in a way that it deserves. Those groups CARE A LOT for the mangaka and try to encourage people in supporting the original author. Many ask to stop spreading their scans when the actual volume was licensed/released.

Nobody needs to argue with this utterly stupid 'you broke the copyright first' argument when he's not able to differ a controled way of sharing (promoting and making available to those who can't) with blunt pirating (who cares for copyright, I just take what I want). And the latter is what groups do who do not credit anyone at all, not the group that provided the English scan first and sadly also not the original author.

Release restrictions are the only way for groups to keep it controled in favor for the original author: What happends to the scans. Where the scans spread. Stopping the release.

Of course, there are many leecher who don't care. But those are the ones who actually break this legal grey zone by take'n'run scans without caring for the restriction reasons. Those are the ones who choose to ignore the requests which were put up to keep the spreading in check. You may do this in your little 'freezone' part of the internet, but not at MH. Simple as that.

 

[unok-kun]

I'll keep on with my rant.

We're talking here about a concrete case, if there are no raws for a chapter (and you can't find it searching the web) and the English Edited Manga doesn't allow it to be used.

I wouldn't like to be the international Manga Editor in one of those cases, but sadly, it does happen, and what you should do is ask them nicely to allow you to use their raws or their scans, explaining the reasons and that stuff. If they don't reply or they say no (I don't think they say no if you explained nicely, unless they're heartless Manga Editors who just do it for internet fame), you can't use their Edited Mangas, or at least can't post it here.

But what you can actually do is (unless the translation isn't allowed to retranslate to other languages, which happens in very rare cases) linking to the English release to that chapter and making a translation, so that that language readers can read the manga just like we do with raws before Edited Mangas are out.

 

[miknimator]

@eni

I get that this could be a legal issue that might effect the site and why you wont allow it here. But if this this is about crying over some credits for something that you don't have the right to... I don't think "you" deserve it. If this is about copyrights of a Manga Editor then that's just plain silly. And if you're not allowing international Edited Mangas just because of a make-believe copyright then that's even sillier.

 

[eni]

Again: Yes, the English groups don't have permission from the mangaka either but that doesn't mean that they're not worth the credits. That you* take their scans for your second hand release is only proof that you profit from their work too, so why being cocky about it? If they didn't provide you with the base, how would you release?

Copyright and legal claims aside, we see it as simple matter of politeness to listen to the requests of the people who make manga available for your enjoyment. These requests are the only thing they can do to control the spreading and quality of the releases in favor of the original author. That has nothing to do with 'Manga Editor copyright' at all.

Don't use the 'wild wild internet' as an excuse to drift the whole thing into the bottom corner of illegality. It's free, so I take it without second thought? Go into reallife and try it with a car, if you feel this way. It's people like you who give the bad light to file sharer and similar communities. Those who always take everything for granted because it's not touchable, not affecting your reality. It's you and only you who thinks that politeness and care have no place in (semi-)illegal fan communities.

All we ask of you is to be polite towards the people you feed on. Be it the original author or those who provide you with everything you need to release. If you lack these little basic social skills, you're simply not welcome here. Thread is closed for too much flaming.


*With 'you' I talk to those who feel addressed and not to anyone personally in particular.