Special Move Black Aura: A Logical Q & A

[Fayte]

I've been noticing that this seems to be an elephant in the room in most discussions. Nobody wants to talk about it and everyone seems to think it is too mysterious. Let me answer some questions and confirm some myths so we can move on with our lives.

Q: Was Yukimura holding back against Sanada until the final point?

Spoiler

A: No.

Explanation:

-My first argument is: the first thing out of Sanada's mouth is "Don't hold back on me" (Ch.8 pp.6) But, maybe you're still not convinced.
-My second argument is "Why would they have the longest rally for the first point if Yukimura was holding back?" Had Yukimura been holding back, he could have easily gotten that first point on Sanada, being that they were tied for a long time (Ch.8 pp.15).
-My third argument is "Why would it take only 1 rally point for Sanada to get yipped, as opposed to it taking 4 games to use it on Echizen, if Yukimura was holding back?"
-My fourth argument is "Why would Sanada get all of his senses taken away at the same time (Ch.8 pp.18), as opposed to Echizen getting it taken one by one, if Yukimura was holding back?"
-My fifth argument is "Why would it be stated that Yukimura was showing no mercy, if he was holding back?" (Ch.9 pp.1).
-My sixth argument is "Why would Yukimura state he is indebted to Sanada to give him a 'battle without hesitation?' if Yukimura was holding back?" (Ch.9 pp.3)
-My seventh and last argument is "Yukimura said he was wrong in hoping that he would enjoy tennis today, not that he was getting serious because he was holding back." Sanada's shot almost broke his face, had he not moved his head out of the way. This, combined with the fear of Sanada in that state, caused Yukimura to have high stress, and therefore he was not enjoying tennis anymore (Ch.9 pp.10).

If you're still not convinced Yukimura was not holding back, despite all this evidence to the contrary, I'm sorry for you.

Q: Did Sanada really only use Black Aura for that one point?

Spoiler

A: Yes.

Explanation: The narration states "For a moment" Yukimura could not believe what he just saw. It also says "the black aura that 'engulfed' Sanada", which is past tense. Not only that, but the actual images show that Sanada does not have the aura around him anymore (Ch.9 pp.9) This indicates a start and a finish for what Sanada did. The last point Yukimura took on Sanada did not occur with Sanada being in the black aura state.

Q: Is Yukimura's reaction to the Black Aura different than when he played Echizen's Pinnacle of Perfection?

Spoiler

A: Yep, and he was more afraid with Sanada.

Explanation: Konomi went out of his way to mention Yukimura was struck with fear when he saw Sanada (Ch.9 pp.9), an emphasis that was not made with his match against Echizen. Not only that, but it says Yukimura couldn't believe what he saw. Why not? Didn't he already have some "aura-sighting" experience when he played PoP Echizen?

Also, you cannot fully compare the two events. Yukimura played a half a set with PoP Echizen, but saw BA Sanada for 1 point. Naturally, one would be more overwhelmed when something is continuously happening, rather than something happening and stopping in the moment. Would you be more overwhelmed if a tornado was engulfing your house for 30 minutes, or 5 seconds? Obviously relief always comes with closure. Yukimura was more overwhelmed with Echizen, but he was more afraid with Sanada.

Q: What is stronger between Black Aura and Pinnacle of Perfection?

Spoiler

A: Nobody knows, but logic says "they're the same."

Explanation: Due to the fact that Pinnacle of Perfection was already established, Black Aura being revealed after must say something. Is BA better than PoP? I find it hard to believe Konomi would release a new Aura that is better than the Aura of the OP main character who hasn't even mastered it yet, and the OP main captain. Does that mean BA is weaker than PoP? I also find it hard to believe Konomi would reveal a NEW AURA that is...actually..just weaker than PoP......That wouldn't make sense. That's like releasing a new 2013 Toyota with 2007 parts. That is just bad marketing. The only logical answer is "They are equal but different."

Q: Would Yukimura have gone to the mountains if Black Aura lasted longer?

Spoiler

A: Maybe?

Explanation: This answer relies entirely on what Konomi would have done with Yukimura. Obviously Yukimura would have lost if Black Aura lasted longer, so that's a given. The question is, would Konomi have developed his character or would he have written him off the series? If development is the route, then to the mountains he goes. If he were to be written off, then he would probably go to Germany or get another disease or something.

If you still have questions, I'll be happy to answer them in this post.

 

[LetalHawk]

Yukimura would have gone to the mountains if BA lasted longer?

 

[Ninomiya]

Good call. This actually does deserve its own thread.

Maybe Yukimura made the rally longer so that he could Yip him early on.

Your a comedian if you believe BA had Yuki more feared than TMnK. He said he was gonna get serious when he saw BA. He only froze for one shot and even smiled a little. This guy is terrified? I think not. He seems prepared.

---------- Post added at 01:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:08 PM ----------

Yukimura was in a tearful state I dont even want to recall against TMnK.

 

[Fayte]

Yukimura would have gone to the mountains if BA lasted longer?

My post is updated with your question.

Your a comedian if you believe BA had Yuki more feared than TMnK.

Your problem is not with me, it's with Konomi. I'm not the one who had to point out "Yukimura was afraid" in the match with Sanada, and NOT in the match with Echizen.

He said he was gonna get serious when he saw BA. He only froze for one shot and even smiled a little.

What are you reading? Nowhere does he says he will get serious. He was already serious. He said he wasn't enjoying tennis anymore, that's it. Unless you don't believe you can be serious and enjoy tennis at the same time. Also, that was not a smile.

 

[Ninomiya]

Your problem is not with me, it's with Konomi. I'm not the one who had to point out "Yukimura was afraid" in the match with Sanada, and NOT in the match with Echizen.

Nothing implies he was ''more'' scared. Konomi had Yuki scared of BA, but its not like he was more scared of it than TMnK.

What are you reading? Nowhere does he says he will get serious. He was already serious. He said he wasn't enjoying tennis anymore, that's it. Unless you don't believe you can be serious and enjoy tennis at the same time. Also, that was not a smile.

Konomi has implied he got more serious as we turn a page and Mr. Sanada is sent to the mountains.

 

[Jyten]

...Fayte no offense but you've been a long time Sanada fan boy, so I'm trying not to read this with this bias but really...

Spoiler

-My seventh and last argument is "Yukimura said he was wrong in hoping that he would enjoy tennis today, not that he was getting serious because he was holding back." Sanada's shot almost broke his face, had he not moved his head out of the way. This, combined with the fear of Sanada in that state, caused Yukimura to have high stress, and therefore he was not enjoying tennis anymore (Ch.9 pp.10).

...this is just one opinion not fact, yet...I believe his statement is really just him admitting that he lost to Echizen's "fun" tennis and was trying it out himself with Sanada. Once Sanada showed BA, he decided he was stronger with his old no-fun tennis. Even then Sanada was already completely screwed being Yipped and what not. BA did not get him out of yips like TnK did. Otherwise it wouldn't have been 7-1.

TnK vs BA

Tnk at least is better than BA against yips as BA didn't get Sanada out of Yips where as Tnk did. Also, Echizen beat Yuki with TnK. Sanada did not beat Yuki with BA. We really cannot say anything about BA till we see more then one shot. Now had BA lasted longer it might've gotten him out of Yips but this is pure speculation as it did not happen.

Yuki's reaction was different but irrelevant as Sanada still got stomped.

Yes, Sanada used BA as it's something we defined ourselves. It's just the black aura around him we have no idea if it was incomplete or not though.

I'm still a fan of discussing BA when it comes out. With how much "power" levels have been fluctuating in SPoT at this time anything can happen.

I'm more of a fan that's its closer to Tachibana's Moujuu Aura or perhaps the next level of Moujuu. Either way, Konomi will tell us whenever he gets around to it. Which will be in 8 months after two more matches of Atobe.....no, I'm not bitter at all.

 

[Fayte]

...Fayte no offense but you've been a long time Sanada fan boy, so I'm trying not to read this with this bias but really......this is just one opinion not fact, yet...

First of all, I am not a "Sanada fan boy," nor is any bias getting involved with my analysis. I am speaking entirely from a literary/mangaka point of view. Secondly, I never said any of my points were fact. I said they are logical conclusions.

I believe his statement is really just him admitting that he lost to Echizen's "fun" tennis and was trying it out himself with Sanada. Once Sanada showed BA, he decided he was stronger with his old no-fun tennis.

So you don't approve of my "not-facts" and you reply with your opinion that is even way more far fetched than mine? Where has it anywhere implied Yukimura was thinking of Echizen having fun playing tennis? It's nowhere. That is only what you WANT to believe. Yukimura was not stronger at the last point, he was the same. This is common knowledge.

Even then Sanada was already completely screwed being Yipped and what not. BA did not get him out of yips like TnK did. Otherwise it wouldn't have been 7-1.

Sanada DID break out of yips for that one point. Then he returned to being "out of it" mentally. That's why it was 7-1. That is borderline fact.

Tnk at least is better than BA against yips as BA didn't get Sanada out of Yips where as Tnk did.

Wrong.

Also, Echizen beat Yuki with TnK. Sanada did not beat Yuki with BA. We really cannot say anything about BA till we see more then one shot. Now had BA lasted longer it might've gotten him out of Yips but this is pure speculation as it did not happen.

What on EARTH are you talking about? It is FACT that Sanada broke out of the yips for that one point. How the hell else would he have GOTTEN the point? What you're saying is just absurd. Sanada didn't beat Yukimura with BA because it only lasted one point. *facepalm*

 

[-Ken-]

I'm more of a fan that's its closer to Tachibana's Moujuu Aura or perhaps the next level of Moujuu. Either way, Konomi will tell us whenever he gets around to it. Which will be in 8 months after two more matches of Atobe.....no, I'm not bitter at all.

8 months is assuming that Sanada is going right after this match. At the rate it's going right now, it's 3 months per match. That's 9 months in total for EACH 1st stringer match. This means 6 months left for Atobe match. And +9*n. n Being number of 1st stringer match before Sanada step out.

Man, I'm losing hope.

 

[Brandnewkid]

As for one of your arguments regarding whether or not Yukimura was holding back: I don't think that Yukimura has control over which senses he "takes." It's not as if he's controlling the opponent's sensory functions. They just randomly go one by one or all at the same time.

 

[-Ken-]

As for one of your arguments regarding whether or not Yukimura was holding back: I don't think that Yukimura has control over which senses he "takes." It's not as if he's controlling the opponent's sensory functions. They just randomly go one by one or all at the same time.

Pair Puri prove otherwise, though. It shows that Yukimura can take away people taste at will. Although, admittedly, it's just a joke XD.

 

[Ninomiya]

So you don't approve of my "not-facts" and you reply with your opinion that is even way more far fetched than mine? Where has it anywhere implied Yukimura was thinking of Echizen having fun playing tennis? It's nowhere. That is only what you WANT to believe. Yukimura was not stronger at the last point, he was the same. This is common knowledge.

Its what YOU want to believe.
Yukimura did not look like he was attacking like he seemed once Sanada was blind, or during his match against Ryoma. I honestly dont think they were truly equal in the rally for the first point. Lets be honest, when someone is relaxed and talking while your giving them your finishing shots, it means they are not that serious in this series.

 

[Jyten]

Sanada DID break out of yips for that one point. Then he returned to being "out of it" mentally. That's why it was 7-1. That is borderline fact.

What on EARTH are you talking about? It is FACT that Sanada broke out of the yips for that one point. How the hell else would he have GOTTEN the point? What you're saying is just absurd. Sanada didn't beat Yukimura with BA because it only lasted one point. *facepalm*

Meh, he might've broken out of Yips as he retained his senses since he could serve right after. Or at least it looks like it either way, but BA was just 1 point. You're speculating too much.

Also, you can easily take 1 point by just aiming for a spot on the opposing side and hitting as hard as you can. Someone like Sanada can probably easily hit a ball like that a thousand times with out his senses. Given how much he practices. It's freaking muscle memory at that point. This is not an absurd statement.

The only reason I'm giving you anything is that he seems to serve at least once afterwards.

But in my mind Tnk > BA still. So, you can believe what you want but at the moment we've seen jack of BA. We don't know the limits of what it can do or how long Sanada can sustain it. 1 shot simply isn't enough to make any real analysis on.

Also, Yuki was beaten by Echizen playing fun tennis that's how TnK even works and he knew he was losing to fun tennis by the third to the last chapter. Tnk broke his law of kings as Yuki. It's not a far fetched idea to try out the "move" that beat you. Nearly all high level play does this in nearly all fields. Yuki not doing it is more weird.

...and the fact that your still harping about BA after like what 3 ish years (second time we saw it doesn't count as he did nothing). Makes you look suspiciously like a Sanada fanboy if anything.

If anything we should be discussing more of the limits of AK, or the limits of whatever version of Yips Yuki used against Fuwa,. I know we tried to figure out GUYU a while back too. Either way, all of these moves have far more recent data.

 

[Fayte]

Meh, he might've broken out of Yips as he retained his senses since he could serve right after. Or at least it looks like it either way, but BA was just 1 point. You're speculating too much.

Also, you can easily take 1 point by just aiming for a spot on the opposing side and hitting as hard as you can. Someone like Sanada can probably easily hit a ball like that a thousand times with out his senses. Given how much he practices. It's freaking muscle memory at that point. This is not an absurd statement.

Again, your hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me.

But in my mind Tnk > BA still. So, you can believe what you want but at the moment we've seen jack of BA. We don't know the limits of what it can do or how long Sanada can sustain it. 1 shot simply isn't enough to make any real analysis on.

There we go again.

...and the fact that your still harping about BA after like what 3 ish years (second time we saw it doesn't count as he did nothing). Makes you look suspiciously like a Sanada fanboy if anything.

I guess the rest of the people on this forum are Sanada fanboys too, because their constant reference to BA is the reason I made this topic. But hey, I guess we can take the illogical route and say I'm a fanboy instead. That'll do the trick.

If anything we should be discussing more of the limits of AK, or the limits of whatever version of Yips Yuki used against Fuwa,. I know we tried to figure out GUYU a while back too. Either way, all of these moves have far more recent data.

Okay, go for it. Make your topic.

 

[Brandnewkid]

If anything we should be discussing more of the limits of AK, or the limits of whatever version of Yips Yuki used against Fuwa,. I know we tried to figure out GUYU a while back too. Either way, all of these moves have far more recent data.

Atobe Kingdom, contrary to popular belief, is not actually Atobe gaining X-Ray vision. He just gains extreme insight and Konomi artistically expresses that by showing the opponent's bones. Yes, I must point this out because there are people who actually believe that he gained X-Ray vision.

I don't even think Yukimura inflicted the Yips onto Fuwa. Rather, they just played a regular game and Yukimura's returns were just too much, causing Fuwa to collapse. Yukimura is probably gonna have winning curb-stomp battles in the future.

Illusion to a Waking Dream is Yamamoto using the opponent's habits against them, thinking that the ball will go somewhere when it's actually . . . somewhere else. Son of a bitch, he's so clever. I think Kamikakushi still beats it.

 

[-Ken-]

Atobe Kingdom, contrary to popular belief, is not actually Atobe gaining X-Ray vision. He just gains extreme insight and Konomi artistically expresses that by showing the opponent's bones. Yes, I must point this out because there are people who actually believe that he gained X-Ray vision.

Irie, with his "Understanding" disagree. Here,

http://www.mangareader.net/new-prince-of-tennis/44/3

Irie can see through the heart. This is probably accurate to a certain extent. So, to support seeing Skeleton, we had the manga itself showing Atobe looking at his opponents skeleton and Irie's thought to support it. I don't think it's fair to make that assumption.

Illusion to a Waking Dream is Yamamoto using the opponent's habits against them, thinking that the ball will go somewhere when it's actually . . . somewhere else. Son of a bitch, he's so clever. I think Kamikakushi still beats it.

Kamikakushi doesn't beat it. Tezuka and Chitose were going back and forth with Kamikakushi forever. However, Tezuka had more trouble with GUYU. That suggest to me GUYU is stronger than Kamikakushi.

 

[Brandnewkid]

Irie, with his "Understanding" disagree. Here,

http://www.mangareader.net/new-prince-of-tennis/44/3

Irie can see through the heart. This is probably accurate to a certain extent. So, to support seeing Skeleton, we had the manga itself showing Atobe looking at his opponents skeleton and Irie's thought to support it. I don't think it's fair to make that assumption.

Yo, you are taking the lines of the characters too literally. He didn't mean he can literally read his heart; to "read one's heart" is a common expression in Japanese which means to "know someone's actions." Mukahi says it to Oshitari Yuushi at some point to. What Irie was doing was putting a play on that, to show that Atobe has gone beyond "knowing someone's actions," but to read their skeleton, to "know all of their movements."

Kamikakushi doesn't beat it. Tezuka and Chitose were going back and forth with Kamikakushi forever. However, Tezuka had more trouble with GUYU. That suggest to me GUYU is stronger than Kamikakushi.

Really? Because once it was explained how GUYU worked, it was nothing.

 

[-Ken-]

Yo, you are taking the lines of the characters too literally. He didn't mean he can literally read his heart; to "read one's heart" is a common expression in Japanese which means to "know someone's actions." Mukahi says it to Oshitari Yuushi at some point to. What Irie was doing was putting a play on that, to show that Atobe has gone beyond "knowing someone's actions," but to read their skeleton, to "know all of their movements."

I can see how read one's heart can mean know someone action. But I really can't see how read one's skeleton mean know all of their movement. Is that also a saying? I can't find it in google search, at least.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/new_prince_of_tennis/v04/c044/

In this page, it heavily suggest that Atobe see the spot that it's impossible for the bone and joint to move to. You can read it as just knowing one's movement if you want. But you can't blame people for reading it as Atobe's able to look for those blind spot though seeing their skeleton.

I think the manga supports mine theory more than yours, but you're welcome to find example in the manga that shows Atobe was simply reading movement if you want. And I might accept that depending how solid your evidence look. But just judging from how Atobe used it in the manga that I show so far, I'm going with my explanation for now.

Really? Because once it was explained how GUYU worked, it was nothing.

Yes? Otherwise, please explained to me how Kamikakushi seemed to be more powerful than GUYU. Because I don't see Tezuka had any problem with it at all.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/prince_of_tennis/c333/10.html

He returned the first Kamikakshi used. And this is Tezuka pre-U-17 camp. And you know how the manga mentioned U-17 boost all ability. And you can go back and look at how many game it takes until Tezuka returned GUYU.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/new_prince_of_tennis/v04/c037/3.html

It's a lot more than the first ball. I'm just seeing it from how it actually works here, rather than opinion. He counter it before by using Tezuka Phantom. But Tezuka Phantom is a lot more than simply returning the ball. It's used before to counter Rai. I'm not saying that GUYU is Rai level techniques, because it's not. But I think it show that it's higher techniques than Kamikakshi.

 

[Ninomiya]

Really? Because once it was explained how GUYU worked, it was nothing.

I agree with Ken.
Not really. Even after being explained, only Tezuka Phantom defeated it for a long time, then for some few points Tezuka was able to defeat in the FINAL game of the match, and if it finished 6-4, it mean it took a LONG time.
Kamikakushi was returned with Super Rising. You think Super Rising can handle GUYU? I doubt it.

---------- Post added at 11:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 AM ----------

Back on topic, I'll accept BA is equal to TMnK and accepted this ages ago as much as I dont like Sanada and I have looked time and time again for evidence against it coz Sanada is lame.

However, the evidence that Yukimura was going all-out like Sanada was is not solid enough at all.
Tezuka VS Sanada for 1st point was dead serious, Tezuka was NOT talking casually while returning the shots. Yukimura was.

Sanada is using his strongest technique at that point and can only laugh coz for the readers, we know that after Lightning for Sanada is nothing.
http://www.mangareader.net/343-24389-11/new-prince-of-tennis/chapter-8.html

Did Sanada us BA for 1 point? The evidence for that is strong. In fact, Im certain it was for one point, as Yuki creamed him within a pg with out BA, if Sanada had BA, we wouldnt simply turn the page and see him Sanada sent to the mountains.

At 4-1, Yuki VS Sanada w/out BA instantly becomes 7-1, no yips involved, only a dog could still say Yukimura and Sanada w/out BA are equal.

But LOL at Yuki being more scared of BA than TMnK, as much as he is my fav, he was shitting himself at both and its not possible to compare.

 

[LetalHawk]

Yukimura hates those auras. When Sanada activated it, Yukimura played all out and finished the match quickly to prevent Sanada from using it again.

Yukimura wasn't that scared of Tenimuhou. He was more afraid of Sanada's aura, so BA might be equal to Tenimuhou and gives a "scarier" feeling to the player.

 

[Jyten]

Again, your hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me.

Wow, you don't even agree to that. Wow, do you compete at a high level in anything? Because if you did you'd know this is more than normal. Muscle memory is standard for anyone that practices at something a lot.

There we go again.

BA Sanada lost (whether he could maintain it or not), TnK Echizen stomped (His one serve was so fast even the ref couldn't see it let alone Yuki, more over it seems super easy to maintain as both Echizen and Tezuka had zero issues using it when they activated it). This is fact you can't disagree with this.

I guess the rest of the people on this forum are Sanada fanboys too, because their constant reference to BA is the reason I made this topic. But hey, I guess we can take the illogical route and say I'm a fanboy instead. That'll do the trick.

It's possible, there are good reasons I don't post here anymore. Also, it's 1 freaking shot The fact your arguing that 1 shot from BA automatically makes it on the same level or the same strength as the final aura of PoT and the aura that got Tezuka removed from SPoT is silly.

Maybe after we see Sanada actually use it we can make better assumptions. But that's all your doing right now assumptions same as me.

Okay, go for it. Make your topic.

Too lazy don't care.