Discussion Domus Flau General Discussion Thread

XXEliteXXAceXX

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The purpose behind this thread is to open up discussions about battles in general. You can talk about anything related to fights as long as it doesn't address a specific match-up. Here are examples of topics that relate to this thread...

1. Describe the process you use in determining the winners of a battle.

Basically, how much emphasis do you put on character stats? Do you believe in powerscaling methods? What about calculations? In your opinion, does hax magic have any limits?

2. Explain how you label the difficulty of a fight.

Do you have a standard procedure that you go through to assign a difficulty to a battle? Or do you just go by your own gut feeling every single time there is a new match-up?

3. Discuss how certain conditions in a fight can change the outcome for you.

Do you think an outnumbered match (1v2, 1v3, etc.) drastically impacts the result? What about the difference between a combat-mage and a support-mage? How much of a game-changer are elemental properties and slayer advantages?

4. Differentiate between feats, hype, and portrayal.

What makes hype and portrayal valid? Do you find any inconsistency in any feats? Or do you always accept them as a fact?

5. Anything else?

There are many topics regarding fights that haven't been mentioned. Maybe illustrate hypothetical situations and talk about what-ifs in certain fights? Overall, if you're curious as to what others would think, just post it here! Surveys, polls, and anything related to battles are all welcomed.

Honorable Mentions: Thanks to goldb for giving me permission to make this thread. Also, I want to thank the Local Moderators of the FT Section who have to moderate this thread.
 

XXEliteXXAceXX

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I know this post seems kind of long. It's one of those wall of text. But I'll try to add diagrams in between to make it less confusing.

Okay, so in making this thread, I wanted to start a discussion about something that I've seen quite often. Recently, I've noticed a lot of members take extreme positions when it comes to placing a difficulty on a fight. For example, when we're comparing two different Spriggans, I'd see "stomp" and "low-diff". Now don't get me wrong, I'm not accusing anybody of anything here. We all have different opinions and nobody is "right". It's just that I just don't understand how some of you guys can come up with such conclusions. And by the way, I know that exaggeration is pretty common here. By all means, keep it up because it sure makes me laugh. But at the same time, I want to know your guys' serious answer to these kinds of threads.

With that said, I'm going to reveal my thoughts on this matter. I know some people are curious about how I label the difficulty on a fight so I don't mind sharing it. Also, feel free to criticize my method as I am well aware of the flaws in it.

So to start off, I'm going to talk about two characters. Note that I will be making an analogy to the Spriggans as it is the easiest way to understand. In my mind, two characters who are on the same level or in the same tier should be fairly equal. Logically, it makes sense. Therefore, it's also not far-fetched to say both characters would have an extreme amount of difficulty taking each other down. So for the Spriggans, I generally see a Low-Tier Spriggan having extreme difficulty taking down another Low-Tier Spriggan...


As you can see, a Low-Tier Spriggan should have a lot of difficulty defeating another Low-Tier Spriggan. In addition, they should lose to anybody higher than the Extreme Difficulty line. It only makes sense that way. And using this idea, I can apply it to a Medium-Tier Spriggan in a similar fashion...


So for me, one thing I tend to keep in mind is that there isn't that much of a gap between Spriggans. The statement that all the Spriggans are on the same level has been proven wrong. But the fact that they are all quite powerful still stands. And so, I don't see the difference in one tier resulting in a "stomp". Now if you were to take a Medium-Tier Spriggan (it differs for people) and match them up against Jacob, do you really think he'll get stomped? I tend to think that the Spriggan fighting him with have pretty high difficulty. And for someone like Ajeel (who I put in the turquoise region), I'd think that the Spriggan fighting against him would have high-extreme difficulty. In a sense, you can say that they are more or less equal. Moving on to a High-Tier Spriggan...


Generally, I like to think that a Difference in 1 Tier = High Difficulty. You may agree or disagree with this depending on which tiers you put the Spriggans in.

Let's start from the top. A High-Tier Spriggan has extreme difficulty taking on another High-Tier Spriggan. That makes sense to me. But what about a High-Tier Spriggan versus a Medium-Tier Spriggan? It wouldn't be unreasonable to say they would have high difficulty, right? Imagine God Serena (High-Tier Spriggan in my opinion) fighting Bloodman (Medium-Tier Spriggan). The outcome definitely won't be a stomp. In fact, God Serena should have a good amount of trouble. Now what about God Serena versus Ajeel? I'm leaning towards medium-high difficulty. But even medium difficulty is fine. Keep in mind that this is the same guy who almost defeated Erza. And I don't think God Serena would be able to stomp Erza. As for Jacob, he may be considered weak compared to his fellow Spriggans but if you were to double his power, could he fight on par with God Serena? I think he has a chance. And last but not least, let's look at a Top-Tier Spriggan...


I'll admit, there may be some flaws with this. Top-Tiers are stronger than the rest, so the gap between them and the others might be a little bit farther.

Now this is the full picture. As you can see, this is the only time where I think a "Low Difficulty" is reasonable. Basically, a Top-Tier Spriggan like August should be able to crush the likes of Neinhart and Jacob. I wouldn't disagree with those who say "No Difficulty" because it makes sense. At this point, I know many of you will be able to point out the inconsistency in my diagram. August stomped Jellal who should be somewhere between a Medium-Tier Spriggan and a High-Tier Spriggan. So why do I say Medium-High Difficulty? First of all, the battle was off-paneled so we don't exactly know what happened. Second of all, Spriggan hype is the most inconsistent thing in this manga by far. I don't think August is as strong as he appears to be right now. There is a reason why I refuse to trust Spriggan hype. At this point, 11/12 Spriggans haven't lived up to their hype. So I can't really depend on that 1/12 chance. But for those who still cling on to that hope, please keep believing. Anyways, I honestly think a Top-Tier Spriggan would have high difficulty against someone like God Serena. And they will probably have some difficulty against a Spriggan like Wahl. My overall point is that it is a little unreasonable to say one Spriggan stomps the other. The gap isn't that big.

I think I rambled on long enough (more than you guys want), but there are just a few more things I want to mention. For those who believe that all Spriggans are the same, this will have no meaning. And for those who put different Spriggans on different levels (compared to me), then you may not agree with this.

For your information, I don't strictly follow this guideline. Actually, I change it up a bit at times. For instance, even though this diagram says medium difficulty, I might say low-medium difficulty or medium-high difficulty. Maybe more. It depends. Of course, certain conditions will play a role as well. In general, I just use this as some sort of basis to start off with. Inconsistency may lead me to change my opinion.

One more thing. For me, these diagrams aren't just limited to Spriggans. You can replace the word "Spriggans" with "Characters" which is exactly what I do when we aren't talking about Spriggans.

Thanks for reading this (Again, I know it was long) and I'm looking forward to how you guys label difficulties!
 
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Spirit

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WARNING: I know this post seems kind of long. It's one of those wall of text. But I'll try to add diagrams in between to make it less confusing. If there is one post of mine that I'd like everyone in the FT section to read, it's this one. Haha.

Okay, so in making this thread, I wanted to start a discussion about something that I've seen quite often. Recently, I've noticed a lot of members take extreme positions when it comes to placing a difficulty on a fight. For example, when we're comparing two different Spriggans, I'd see "stomp" and "low-diff". Now don't get me wrong, I'm not accusing anybody of anything here. We all have different opinions and nobody is "right". It's just that I just don't understand how some of you guys can come up with such conclusions. And by the way, I know that exaggeration is pretty common here. By all means, keep it up because it sure makes me laugh. But at the same time, I want to know your guys' serious answer to these kinds of threads.

With that said, I'm going to reveal my thoughts on this matter. I know some people are curious about how I label the difficulty on a fight so I don't mind sharing it. Also, feel free to criticize my method as I am aware of the flaws in it.

So to start off, I'm going to talk about two characters. Note that I will be making an analogy to the Spriggans as it is the easiest way to understand. In my mind, two characters who are on the same level or in the same tier should be fairly equal. Logically, it makes sense. Therefore, it's also not far-fetched to say both characters would have an extreme amount of difficulty taking each other down. So for the Spriggans, I generally see a Low-Tier Spriggan having extreme difficulty taking down another Low-Tier Spriggan...


This may not make much sense right now, but hopefully it does later.

As you can see, a Low-Tier Spriggan should have a lot of difficulty defeating another Low-Tier Spriggan. In addition, they should lose to anybody higher than the Extreme Difficulty line. It only makes sense that way. And using this idea, I can apply it to a Medium-Tier Spriggan in a similar fashion...

[/IMG]

Again, I know I'll get questions about how I came up with the other two lines, and that will be cleared up later. I hope it makes sense by the next one though.

So for me, one thing I tend to keep in mind is that there isn't that much of a gap between Spriggans. The statement that all the Spriggans are on the same level has been proven wrong. But the fact that they are all quite powerful still stands. And so, I don't see the difference in one tier resulting in a "stomp". Now if you were to take a Medium-Tier Spriggan (it differs for people) and match them up against Jacob, do you really think he'll get stomped? I tend to think that the Spriggan fighting him with have pretty high difficulty. And for someone like Ajeel (who I put in the turquoise region), I'd think that the Spriggan fighting against him would have a high-extreme amount of difficulty. In a sense, you can say that they are more or less equal. Moving on to a High-Tier Spriggan...


Generally, I like to think that a Difference in 1 Tier = High Difficulty. You may agree or disagree with this depending on which tiers you put the Spriggans in.

Let's start from the top. A High-Tier Spriggan has extreme difficulty taking on another High-Tier Spriggan. That makes sense to me. But what about a High-Tier Spriggan versus a Medium-Tier Spriggan? It wouldn't be unreasonable to say they would have high difficulty, right? Imagine God Serena (High-Tier Spriggan in my opinion) fought Bloodman (Medium-Tier Spriggan). The outcome definitely won't be a stomp. In fact, God Serena should have a good amount of trouble. Now what about God Serena versus Ajeel? I'm leaning towards medium-high difficulty. But medium difficulty is fine. Keep in mind that this guy is the same person who almost beat Erza. And I don't think God Serena can stomp Erza. As for Jacob, he may be considered weak compared to his fellow Spriggans but if you were double his power, could he fight on par with God Serena (Medium Difficulty + Medium Difficulty = Extreme Difficulty). And last but not least, let's look at a Top-Tier Spriggan.


I'll admit, there may be some flaws with this. Top-Tiers are way stronger than the rest, so the gap between them and the others might be a little farther.

Now this is the full picture. As you can see, this is the only time where I think a "Low Difficulty" is reasonable. Basically, a Top-Tier Spriggan like August should be able to crush the likes of Neinhart and Jacob. I wouldn't disagree with those who say "No Difficulty" because I agree. Here, I know many of you will be able to point out the inconsistency with my diagram. August stomped Jellal who should be somewhere between a Medium-Tier Spriggan and a High-Tier Spriggan. So why do I say Medium-High Difficulty? First of all, the battle was off-paneled so we don't exactly know what happened. Second of all, Spriggan hype is the most inconsistent thing in this manga by far. There is a reason why I refuse to trust Spriggan hype. At this point, 11/12 Spriggans haven't lived up to their hype. So I can't really depend on that 1/12 chance. But for those who still cling on to that hope, please keep believing. Anyways, I honestly think a Top-Tier Spriggan would have high difficulty against someone like God Serena. And they will probably have some difficulty against a Spriggan like Wahl. My overall point here is that there is a little bit of inconsistency in saying one Spriggan stomps the other. The gap isn't that big.

I think I rambled on long enough (more than you guys want), but there are just a few more things I want to mention. For those who believe that all Spriggans are the same, this will have no meaning. And for those who put different Spriggans on different levels (compared to me), then you may not agree with this.

For your your information, I don't strictly follow this guideline. Actually, I change it up a bit at times. For instance, even though this diagram says medium difficulty, I might say low-medium difficulty or medium-high difficulty. Maybe more. It depends. In general, I just use this as some sort of basis to start off with. Inconsistency may lead me to change my opinion.

Thanks for reading this (I know it was long) and I'm looking forward to how you guys label difficulties!
Thanks for putting in all this work Ace. I certainly appreciate it :)

One thing I'm always ready to talk about is the differences between Hype, Feats and portrayal. I feel like it's something that is either overlooked or misused in Fairy Tail.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Also on the subject of Hax Magic. I feel like normal magic is defined by Laws of Logic, and HM Breaks those Laws. Instead Hax Magic's limits are murky but is probably limited to laws of Space or Matter, though even then there are many inconsistencies.
 

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Nice thread. I may sticky this, since it's not a fight but more of a discussion. Depends how heavy participation is.

1. Describe the process you use in determining the winners of a battle.
Imagine they're thrown in a ring and have to win it; or win like someone would do in the manga.

I try to maintain a level of consistency, I think that's important. Other people on the forum are also participating and I believe I have to do right by them to offer a consistent assessment each time so I don't confuse them by being fickle. Consistency is also a good bias control, or makes you consistently bias.

Because FT fights happen as they do I put lots more emphasis into attack power and durability/endurance. That's my first instinct in every fight I comment on.

2. Explain how you label the difficulty of a fight.
This is hard for me. It's always easier when someone clearly stomps, or if it's very close (this is a pretty obvious statement of course).

I try to use the manga as a standard. Something like Laxus vs Jura at the GMG is a high/v.high difficulty fight imo. Something like Laxus vs Tempesta is low difficulty or a stomp. So in those 2 it's clear. But for God Serena vs GOI/Jura... even though Serena clearly overpowered them they still managed a comeback, and Serena had to use some of his best attacks. So these are when I use low-mid diff, because it's not quite a stomp but it's not mid diff either (no damage at all).

But then predicting an outcome? That's even harder for me (since I already showed how something in the manga was hard for me to say a clear difficulty). I usually wing it on instinct, honestly that's how it should be.

3. Discuss how certain conditions in a fight can change the outcome for you.
I don't think FT is that complicated so not many conditions matter tbh.

However for something like Erza vs multiple opponents... due to the way Erza's fighting style is she's less adept against numbers than say Natsu. So if that's a condition, then yes this is a big deal.

I probably can't think of many on the spot here, but if someone changes the conditions in a fight thread you gotta play by them, so I act accordingly. The more difficult ones are "Assume someone is in X mode for the entire battle", that is hard to imagine at times.

4. Differentiate between feats, hype, and portrayal.
Feats - happened
Hype - stated
Portrayal - interpreted

All of which are subjective to a varying extent. Feats are better evidence, but that doesn't mean the others are meaningless. However if feats are pretty strong, you have to roll with them. For example I still have Laxus > Gildarts, even though portrayal is always with Gildarts. I had Laxus >> Gildarts before he returned. Laxus feats and hype are better right now imo.

5. Anything else?
  • Power rankings and fight predictions are often over processed and analysed. I also fall victim to this, being trapped by trying to figure it out logically or methodically. Yet someone who just reads the manga without any thought of power levels can probably predict with similar efficiency as to what I could. Mashima writes this manga to be read, and if he's written it well enough you should have an impression as to how strong everyone is. Not only that, things like feats etc I don't count as high quality information. From a data perspective, your analysis should never be any more powerful than your data. For example if you're using a thermometer that can only measure to the accuracy of +/- 1 degree celsius, then your analysis should not be any more powerful than that (ie you can't have an output like 12.36 degrees C). So this is a messy analogy I guess, but apply it to power rankings and I mean to say they should be as loose/robust as you think feats are. That said someone can make a well thought out and analysed post and it will make the most sense out of the lot.
  • Comparing stats is a good way to do it, but it can often mislead to how the actual combat would go. Imagination is pretty important I think, you've gotta think about how a fight will go down. Some stats outweigh others for sure. A fight isn't a ledger of stats, but rather how each would interact in a fight (which is a chaotic event).
  • Knockout power can sometimes make you think "X oneshots". Now it's hard to argue against this sometimes especially the way Hiro has been writing fights this arc... and since offensive power is a key factor in most FT fights. But I do think there is an element of fear factor to big hitters, just like in boxing. Guys like Mike Tyson and George Foreman struck fear into the opposition and the world because of their punching power. Ali's own team thought he might die vs George Foreman. So this here just illustrates that you can get awestruck by such displays.
 
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Good thread.

1. Describe the process you use in determining the winners of a battle.

Basically, how much emphasis do you put on character stats? Do you believe in powerscaling methods? What about calculations? In your opinion, does hax magic have any limits?
Step 1: Determine who has better feats in attack power, durability, and speed. Anything from the manga is valid.
Step 2: Estimate who has higher magical power. If the manga flat out says that a character has higher magical power, I take it at face value. If not, then I assume the person with better feats has higher magical power.
Step 3: Factor in advantages that allow them to offset the initial stats of attack power, durability, and speed. In other words, hax. If the difference between the feats is enormous, like with August and your average Spriggans, I assume that the effect it would have is minimal. Again, look to manga for reference.

2. Explain how you label the difficulty of a fight.

Do you have a standard procedure that you go through to assign a difficulty to a battle? Or do you just go by your own gut feeling every single time there is a new match-up?
I like to examine how difficult of a time they have towards a similar level opponent in the manga, as well as the way they're handling themselves currently in the arc. If a character is oneshoting all his opponents left, right, and center... He's probably not going to have an extreme difficult match against an opponent of a weaker caliber. Basically take the strongest opponent they've faced in the manga so far, and scale from there.

3. Discuss how certain conditions in a fight can change the outcome for you.

Do you think an outnumbered match (1v2, 1v3, etc.) drastically impacts the result? What about the difference between a combat-mage and a support-mage? How much of a game-changer are elemental properties and slayer advantages?
Outnumbered: Depends whether or not the numbers can be oneshotted, whether the AoE can hit multiple people, and overall MP levels.
Combat vs Support: Irrelevant to me. Will elaborate more below.
Elemental properties: Depends. Most of the time minor annoyance. Some of the time, game changers. Case by case, must reference manga.
Slayer properties: Profound increase in damage. Reference manga.

4. Differentiate between feats, hype, and portrayal.

What makes hype and portrayal valid? Do you find any inconsistency in any feats? Or do you always accept them as a fact?
Feats: Anything the character has been shown to be able to do. Take most impressive feat for all characters. Always accept as fact.
Portrayal: What the manga says about the character (must be quote-able). Accept as fact, unless contradicts feats.
Hype: The fan's interpretation of what a character can do. Don't accept as fact, unless supported by feats.

EDIT: It seems @Brandish and I share similar standards when it comes to this.

5. Anything else?

There are many topics regarding fights that haven't been mentioned. Maybe illustrate hypothetical situations and talk about what-ifs in certain fights? Overall, if you're curious as to what others would think, just post it here! Surveys, polls, and anything related to battles are all welcomed.

Magic power vs. Attack Power:

I see attack power as the expenditure of magic power in any one given attack. It's possible to have less magical power, but still be able to pull of superior feats of attack power. An example of this is with Natsu, whom I consider to have less magical power than any of the Spriggan 12 (excluding Igneel's magical power, of course), yet frequently shows feats of high attack power with his dragon king spells. Generally speaking, damage dealt and AoE are what I'm looking for when determining attack power.

Magic power vs. Durability:
General rule of thumb. Unless you have a magic that specifically enhances your body, the person with higher magical power is more durable. Once you have magics that alter your body, the game changes. However, for regular human beings, their durability is relatively the same but people with higher magical power will do better.

Magic power vs. Hax:

I'm willing to accept that some powers work against stronger people. However if a character is established to be stronger than another by portrayal (statements in manga), then I'm going to assume the no-limit fallacy is in effect. Obviously, feats can still override portrayal. However, the feat would have to be the hax working on an opponent on similar level. Eg. Macro would need to show that it works against Spriggan levels. Hax will not work against characters stronger than another character in which the feat is established not to work against. Eg. Dimaria's timestop will not effect Igneel, as he is stronger than END.
 
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Likewise with the other responses in this thread, I agree that this would be really helpful in the future... at least in my case, since I don't necessarily follow the process that you take when you determine a winner of a battle.

Before I get into my outlines of your questions, I would like to start by pointing out the graphics that you presented. Unfortunately, while I understand the direction you're coming from, I'm going to have to heavily disagree here.

I'm just going to refer to the completed chart, that way I can explain the "difficulties" a little bit better.

So, from what I got with your scale, each tier difference goes down by 1 level of difficulty... Well, that's not how I interpret it in my battles.

For the sake of this discussion, I'll use August as an example. If August goes against another top-tier wizard, I agree that the outcome will be "extreme difficulty".

However, for each tier that you decrease in August's opponent, the difficulty becomes exponentially easier. Low tiers would be stomped (less than low diff) by August... and mid-tiers would still be no-diffed or low-diffed. Since they are so far apart in terms of power, they become essentially "fodders" for August's level.

Even high tiered opponents would be mid-diffed by August max. I don't think "high diff" would be an accurate description here either.

I would call somebody like Erza to be high tier. But against August, she's as good as done the moment the battle starts (kinda like how Jellal was easily beaten).

So, calling it "high diff" would be kind of exaggerating... it's more like mid difficulty.

This is probably why you've seen more "stomps", "no diffs", and "low diffs" recently. Because the gaps in power levels have been so large that it causes a drastic difference in difficulty when you compare two characters from separate tiers.

The way I see it, when you pitch two characters from different tiers in a fight, the difficulty is drastically reduced for the superior combatant.

As for your discussion points:

1. Describe the process you use in determining the winners of a battle.

This is pretty easy. Unlike most people, I don't tend to focus on manga feats that much. I use them as a starting point to get the general idea of a character's power and performance, but that's about it. Occasionally, I would use manga feats as hardcore evidence or proof, but even that's rare.

Since most battles in the Domus Flau threads are "Fantasy Battles", then using manga feats as a main source, in my opinion, would heavily distort the nature of the battle.

- I start out by analyzing the characters individually. This is where I look at their overall power and how well they've done in previous fights in the actual manga. (This is where I pay attention to hype and portrayal)

- My next step is to analyze for any variation between the two combatants (such as advantages/disadvantages). If one character has the advantage over the other character, they're already high on my priority list of who would be the winner.

- But, it doesn't just stop there. To make sure, I have to look at the gap between their magical power as well as attributes such as intelligence, defense/durability, and offensive skill.

- From here on out, it's just a matter of running simulations and using common sense to see who would outlast the other, while considering all of the above mentioned.

2. Explain how you label the difficulty of a fight.

This one is pretty specific.. there's no step-by-step process for me to determine this. It would have to be judged separately for each battle. Generally, a great starting point for me would be to look at the tiers. But even that can sometimes be insufficient.

I usually determine the difficulty while deciding who is the winner of the battle, that way, I can also take into account external factors, advantages, and disadvantages.

But again, if there's any doubt, it's best to fall back on their tiers. Simply analyze the characters and put them into a tier. From there, it would be easy to see what difficulty.

Although, this is the part where we disagree because I believe the difficulty becomes exponentially easier every time there is a 1 level difference in tier.

3. Discuss how certain conditions in a fight can change the outcome for you.

Outnumbered matches are important to take into consideration. The difficulty becomes exponentially higher, even if the opponents are all average/decent mages. The only exception to this would be a team filled with fodders, which at that point, doesn't really make a difference anymore.

Combat mage, support mage, elemental properties, and slayer advantages all go without say. They provide advantages/disadvantages that have to be considered.

I'm more lenient on support mages, but generally, they would be weaker in a solo battle. However, in a team battle, they would actually give their team the upper-hand and a major boost in advantage.

4. Differentiate between feats, hype, and portrayal.

I treat all of these as equally important. None of these matter more than the other.

Feats don't mean everything to me because it depends on who has more spotlight, which opponents they've fought, and how much power they used.

These can't be applied to "Fantasy Battles" where the situation or condition could be different.

Portrayal is high in my book because you have a track record to base off of. A character who has been leagues higher than their peers in the past gives it less chance that they will be surpassed.

This is more accurate in my opinion because it is an overall general summary of the character's performance and power throughout the entire series.

Hype has only been less important for me in the Alvarez Arc.. maybe it's because of the current writing that makes me turn a blind eye to it sometimes...
 
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XXEliteXXAceXX

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Thanks for putting in all this work Ace. I certainly appreciate it :)

One thing I'm always ready to talk about is the differences between Hype, Feats and portrayal. I feel like it's something that is either overlooked or misused in Fairy Tail.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Also on the subject of Hax Magic. I feel like normal magic is defined by Laws of Logic, and HM Breaks those Laws. Instead Hax Magic's limits are murky but is probably limited to laws of Space or Matter, though even then there are many inconsistencies.
Haha. I should be thanking you for taking the time to read this. The making of this thread wasn't that much of a burden.

Anyways, I'm actually curious to know your opinion about hype, feats, and portrayal. I also agree that it's something that is generally misunderstood.



Nice thread. I may sticky this, since it's not a fight but more of a discussion. Depends how heavy participation is.



Imagine they're thrown in a ring and have to win it; or win like someone would do in the manga.

I try to maintain a level of consistency, I think that's important. Other people on the forum are also participating and I believe I have to do right by them to offer a consistent assessment each time so I don't confuse them by being fickle. Consistency is also a good bias control, or makes you consistently bias.

Because FT fights happen as they do I put lots more emphasis into attack power and durability/endurance. That's my first instinct in every fight I comment on.



This is hard for me. It's always easier when someone clearly stomps, or if it's very close (this is a pretty obvious statement of course).

I try to use the manga as a standard. Something like Laxus vs Jura at the GMG is a high/v.high difficulty fight imo. Something like Laxus vs Tempesta is low difficulty or a stomp. So in those 2 it's clear. But for God Serena vs GOI/Jura... even though Serena clearly overpowered them they still managed a comeback, and Serena had to use some of his best attacks. So these are when I use low-mid diff, because it's not quite a stomp but it's not mid diff either (no damage at all).

But then predicting an outcome? That's even harder for me (since I already showed how something in the manga was hard for me to say a clear difficulty). I usually wing it on instinct, honestly that's how it should be.



I don't think FT is that complicated so not many conditions matter tbh.

However for something like Erza vs multiple opponents... due to the way Erza's fighting style is she's less adept against numbers than say Natsu. So if that's a condition, then yes this is a big deal.

I probably can't think of many on the spot here, but if someone changes the conditions in a fight thread you gotta play by them, so I act accordingly. The more difficult ones are "Assume someone is in X mode for the entire battle", that is hard to imagine at times.



Feats - happened
Hype - stated
Portrayal - interpreted

All of which are subjective to a varying extent. Feats are better evidence, but that doesn't mean the others are meaningless. However if feats are pretty strong, you have to roll with them. For example I still have Laxus > Gildarts, even though portrayal is always with Gildarts. I had Laxus >> Gildarts before he returned. Laxus feats and hype are better right now imo.



  • Power rankings and fight predictions are often over processed and analysed. I also fall victim to this, being trapped by trying to figure it out logically or methodically. Yet someone who just reads the manga without any thought of power levels can probably predict with similar efficiency as to what I could. Mashima writes this manga to be read, and if he's written it well enough you should have an impression as to how strong everyone is. Not only that, things like feats etc I don't count as high quality information. From a data perspective, your analysis should never be any more powerful than your data. For example if you're using a thermometer that can only measure to the accuracy of +/- 1 degree celsius, then your analysis should not be any more powerful than that (ie you can't have an output like 12.36 degrees C). So this is a messy analogy I guess, but apply it to power rankings and I mean to say they should be as loose/robust as you think feats are. That said someone can make a well thought out and analysed post and it will make the most sense out of the lot.
  • Comparing stats is a good way to do it, but it can often mislead to how the actual combat would go. Imagination is pretty important I think, you've gotta think about how a fight will go down. Some stats outweigh others for sure. A fight isn't a ledger of stats, but rather how each would interact in a fight (which is a chaotic event).
  • Knockout power can sometimes make you think "X oneshots". Now it's hard to argue against this sometimes especially the way Hiro has been writing fights this arc... and since offensive power is a key factor in most FT fights. But I do think there is an element of fear factor to big hitters, just like in boxing. Guys like Mike Tyson and George Foreman struck fear into the opposition and the world because of their punching power. Ali's own team thought he might die vs George Foreman. So this here just illustrates that you can get awestruck by such displays.
Thanks.

I agree with you that over-analyzing a fight can lead to inaccurate results at times. It has happened to me numerous times and that is when I start criticizing manga feats. But at the same time, I feel like if you were to just judge a fight off of instinct, that would lead to major inconsistency.

I also agree that comparing stats can lead to errors. There is always a difference in skill level or abilities. However, I tend to think that characters with higher stats will have a better chance in winning just because of the advantages that they start out with.



Good thread.



Step 1: Determine who has better feats in attack power, durability, and speed. Anything from the manga is valid.
Step 2: Estimate who has higher magical power. If the manga flat out says that a character has higher magical power, I take it at face value. If not, then I assume the person with better feats has higher magical power.
Step 3: Factor in advantages that allow them to offset the initial stats of attack power, durability, and speed. In other words, hax. If the difference between the feats is enormous, like with August and your average Spriggans, I assume that the effect it would have is minimal. Again, look to manga for reference.



I like to examine how difficult of a time they have towards a similar level opponent in the manga, as well as the way they're handling themselves currently in the arc. If a character is oneshoting all his opponents left, right, and center... He's probably not going to have an extreme difficult match against an opponent of a weaker caliber. Basically take the strongest opponent they've faced in the manga so far, and scale from there.



Outnumbered: Depends whether or not the numbers can be oneshotted, whether the AoE can hit multiple people, and overall MP levels.
Combat vs Support: Irrelevant to me. Will elaborate more below.
Elemental properties: Depends. Most of the time minor annoyance. Some of the time, game changers. Case by case, must reference manga.
Slayer properties: Profound increase in damage. Reference manga.


Feats: Anything the character has been shown to be able to do. Take most impressive feat for all characters. Always accept as fact.
Portrayal: What the manga says about the character (must be quote-able). Accept as fact, unless contradicts feats.
Hype: The fan's interpretation of what a character can do. Don't accept as fact, unless supported by feats.

EDIT: It seems @Brandish and I share similar standards when it comes to this.




Magic power vs. Attack Power:

I see attack power as the expenditure of magic power in any one given attack. It's possible to have less magical power, but still be able to pull of superior feats of attack power. An example of this is with Natsu, whom I consider to have less magical power than any of the Spriggan 12 (excluding Igneel's magical power, of course), yet frequently shows feats of high attack power with his dragon king spells. Generally speaking, damage dealt and AoE are what I'm looking for when determining attack power.

Magic power vs. Durability:
General rule of thumb. Unless you have a magic that specifically enhances your body, the person with higher magical power is more durable. Once you have magics that alter your body, the game changes. However, for regular human beings, their durability is relatively the same but people with higher magical power will do better.

Magic power vs. Hax:

I'm willing to accept that some powers work against stronger people. However if a character is established to be stronger than another by portrayal (statements in manga), then I'm going to assume the no-limit fallacy is in effect. Obviously, feats can still override portrayal. However, the feat would have to be the hax working on an opponent on similar level. Eg. Macro would need to show that it works against Spriggan levels. Hax will not work against characters stronger than another character in which the feat is established not to work against. Eg. Dimaria's timestop will not effect Igneel, as he is stronger than END.
Thanks.

I agree with the way you incorporate magic power into a character's stats. I also think your way of determining the winner in a match is pretty solid.

One thing that I share a different opinion on is the difference between a combat mage and a support mage. In general, I believe a combat mage has better skill in fighting. It is true that their overall power might be the same. But in a 1-on-1 fight, I'd give it to the combat mage just because they have more experience when it comes to anything physical.



Likewise with the other responses in this thread, I agree that this would be really helpful in the future... at least in my case, since I don't necessarily follow the process that you take when you determine a winner of a battle.

Before I get into my outlines of your questions, I would like to start by pointing out the graphics that you presented. Unfortunately, while I understand the direction you're coming from, I'm going to have to heavily disagree here.

I'm just going to refer to the completed chart, that way I can explain the "difficulties" a little bit better.

So, from what I got with your scale, each tier difference goes down by 1 level of difficulty... Well, that's not how I interpret it in my battles.

For the sake of this discussion, I'll use August as an example. If August goes against another top-tier wizard, I agree that the outcome will be "extreme difficulty".

However, for each tier that you decrease in August's opponent, the difficulty becomes exponentially easier. Low tiers would be stomped (less than low diff) by August... and mid-tiers would still be no-diffed or low-diffed. Since they are so far apart in terms of power, they become essentially "fodders" for August's level.

Even high tiered opponents would be mid-diffed by August max. I don't think "high diff" would be an accurate description here either.

I would call somebody like Erza to be high tier. But against August, she's as good as done the moment the battle starts (kinda like how Jellal was easily beaten).

So, calling it "high diff" would be kind of exaggerating... it's more like mid difficulty.

This is probably why you've seen more "stomps", "no diffs", and "low diffs" recently. Because the gaps in power levels have been so large that it causes a drastic difference in difficulty when you compare two characters from separate tiers.

The way I see it, when you pitch two characters from different tiers in a fight, the difficulty is drastically reduced for the superior combatant.

As for your discussion points:




This is pretty easy. Unlike most people, I don't tend to focus on manga feats that much. I use them as a starting point to get the general idea of a character's power and performance, but that's about it. Occasionally, I would use manga feats as hardcore evidence or proof, but even that's rare.

Since most battles in the Domus Flau threads are "Fantasy Battles", then using manga feats as a main source, in my opinion, would heavily distort the nature of the battle.

- I start out by analyzing the characters individually. This is where I look at their overall power and how well they've done in previous fights in the actual manga. (This is where I pay attention to hype and portrayal)

- My next step is to analyze for any variation between the two combatants (such as advantages/disadvantages). If one character has the advantage over the other character, they're already high on my priority list of who would be the winner.

- But, it doesn't just stop there. To make sure, I have to look at the gap between their magical power as well as attributes such as intelligence, defense/durability, and offensive skill.

- From here on out, it's just a matter of running simulations and using common sense to see who would outlast the other, while considering all of the above mentioned.




This one is pretty specific.. there's no step-by-step process for me to determine this. It would have to be judged separately for each battle. Generally, a great starting point for me would be to look at the tiers. But even that can sometimes be insufficient.

I usually determine the difficulty while deciding who is the winner of the battle, that way, I can also take into account external factors, advantages, and disadvantages.

But again, if there's any doubt, it's best to fall back on their tiers. Simply analyze the characters and put them into a tier. From there, it would be easy to see what difficulty.

Although, this is the part where we disagree because I believe the difficulty becomes exponentially easier every time there is a 1 level difference in tier.




Outnumbered matches are important to take into consideration. The difficulty becomes exponentially higher, even if the opponents are all average/decent mages. The only exception to this would be a team filled with fodders, which at that point, doesn't really make a difference anymore.

Combat mage, support mage, elemental properties, and slayer advantages all go without say. They provide advantages/disadvantages that have to be considered.

I'm more lenient on support mages, but generally, they would be weaker in a solo battle. However, in a team battle, they would actually give their team the upper-hand and a major boost in advantage.




I treat all of these as equally important. None of these matter more than the other.

Feats don't mean everything to me because it depends on who has more spotlight, which opponents they've fought, and how much power they used.

These can't be applied to "Fantasy Battles" where the situation or condition could be different.

Portrayal is high in my book because you have a track record to base off of. A character who has been leagues higher than their peers in the past gives it less chance that they will be surpassed.

This is more accurate in my opinion because it is an overall general summary of the character's performance and power throughout the entire series.

Hype has only been less important for me in the Alvarez Arc.. maybe it's because of the current writing that makes me turn a blind eye to it sometimes...
Yeah, I created this thread because I was interested in people's thought processes when it comes to making posts in the Domus Flau threads. If this helps you understand the viewpoints of other members, then it has achieved its goal.

It's interesting because we do share similar views. I do place a lot of emphasis on outnumbered fights and I agree that the difficulty exponentially increases when the opponents are stronger than the contestant.

I also agree with your some of your ideas regarding feats, hype, and portrayal.

But one thing we differ in is the tiers. I don't believe the gap between the Spriggans exponentially decreases. Even if you were to ignore the fact that they are all on the same level, there's another thing I want to point out. If the Spriggans become exponentially weaker, then means the characters on Ishgar's side also exponentially get weaker. It makes sense because someone of Erza's caliber should be on Ajeel's level. And I don't think Ajeel is a High-Tier Spriggan. Using this method of powerscaling, you can see that there is a similar gap on Ishgar's side. And to me, Erza isn't drastically weaker than Ishgar's Top-Tiers. So the gap is somewhat evenly dispersed in my opinion.
 

Axiomus

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Thanks.

I agree with the way you incorporate magic power into a character's stats. I also think your way of determining the winner in a match is pretty solid.

One thing that I share a different opinion on is the difference between a combat mage and a support mage. In general, I believe a combat mage has better skill in fighting. It is true that their overall power might be the same. But in a 1-on-1 fight, I'd give it to the combat mage just because they have more experience when it comes to anything physical.
I guess different people have different ways of interpreting things, and where the put the emphasis on. For me, what's most important is being able to check out with the manga. A good argument for me is should be around 85% manga references and 15% interpretation.

I do believe that certain magics are better at fighting, and that people who fight often generally make better fighters. I just don't believe characters are deadlocked into "roles" like support or combat. If someone with magic that can play a "support role" starts fighting a lot and gets really good at fighting, they've essentially become a "combat" mage. Wendy is a good example of this. In the beginning, she primarily played the role of support in fights. Now she's rather adept at fighting due to her experiences in combat. Wendy can still play support roles, but she's not really inferior to anyone on her magic power level when it comes to fighting.
 

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Well you see I like to read manga and other stories where Hype doesn't play such a big part in peoples perspective of a character. But the nature of Fairy Tail's fanbase which is aimed at younger readers is different. A lot of people will Hype up a character to the point where they put them above all others, despite tangible evidence such as feats. This can ne due to the allure, portrayal or overall vibe that character gives.

I might talk more on this later I gotta go.
 

XXEliteXXAceXX

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On the topic of difficulties, there is another thing I'm curious about.

Question: What factors do you take into account when assigning a difficulty?

Rather than how you generally label difficulties, this time, I want to know what things you consider when determining a difficulty. To some, it's simple.
  • Final Condition (Damage Taken + Fatigue)
But what about...
  • Whether the character is at full-power or not?
  • Their emotional state?
I'll give an example. For some of us, we like to think that Jellal had no difficulty in defeating Neinhart. Likewise, Natsu one-shotted Jacob and so we would call it a low difficulty fight. It's true that neither Jellal nor Natsu took any major damage in those fights. However, keep in mind that Jellal was bloodlusted and Natsu resorted to FDKM. They actually tried... Could we really call this a no difficulty or low difficulty fight? Just imagine Jellal had taken Neinhart down casually while Natsu destroyed Jacob the same way but in Base Form instead. Now what would we call that? It can't be the same difficulty as before, right?

In fact, this idea can be applied to characters like Gray and Gajeel as well. Both are known to have an extreme amount of difficulty in their fights because of the amount of damage they took towards the end. But I think what has more of an impact in the difficulty was the fact that Gajeel resorted to DF while Gray was bloodlusted. Assuming both of them came out of their fights with no injuries, would you call it a stomp? After all, both Gajeel and Gray took out their opponents with just a few hits...
 
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I agree with you that over-analyzing a fight can lead to inaccurate results at times. It has happened to me numerous times and that is when I start criticizing manga feats. But at the same time, I feel like if you were to just judge a fight off of instinct, that would lead to major inconsistency.
Well I mean to say is if you were to study a manga or feats in it, you get to a point where the information doesn't have the resolution you require to make very accurate calls. So the credibility of any assessment process isn't that much more than someone reading it and giving their impressions. What is different is going to a PR thread or VS thread and making an argument, an argument made from logic or process will usually trump someones 'instinct' or 'feeling' since you can articulate logic much better argumentatively.

It'd be nice if Hiro put out his own PR so everyone could at least have a standard... or something like those Tartarus cards.

I also agree that comparing stats can lead to errors. There is always a difference in skill level or abilities. However, I tend to think that characters with higher stats will have a better chance in winning just because of the advantages that they start out with.
That last line is quite fair. If you apply that across the board you're more likely to get a right answer than a wrong one, so that's a pretty good method (which is why I think people who do this like yourself are at least applying a decent process).

On the topic of difficulties, there is another thing I'm curious about.

Question: What factors do you take into account when assigning a difficulty?
This is where it becomes hard for me. Like I said before, extremes are easy. That is when someone stomps, or it's very even. Hiro makes it obvious there. But the in betweens are tougher.

I'll use your examples...

Natsu vs Neinhart: low difficulty. Regardless if it was an FD or FDK fist, a spell of that level is spammable for him. His damage was low, and it was quick.
Jellal vs Neinhart: low difficulty. Jellal powered up fully, but took no damage and used GC. However he didn't solo Neinhart here.

Gajeel and Gray went through high diff battles. They both received power ups in them. Even if their final states could defeat Bloodman/Invel much easier, the events and outcomes of the fight happened as they did so you can't alter it just because. But if you made a thread DF Gajeel vs Bloodman... it would be low diff since punches are enough to kill. That said Bloodman can still kill Gajeel with a suicide tech so Idk lol.

Those factors you brought up all matter in my opinion. You just have to balance it, and make a call. As long as you have a fair way of doing it each time I think you'll do pretty well in assessing a difficulty, and when you're a little uncertain widen the range of the diff (like mid-high diff).
 

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On the topic of difficulties, there is another thing I'm curious about.

Question: What factors do you take into account when assigning a difficulty?

Rather than how you generally label difficulties, this time, I want to know what things you consider when determining a difficulty. To some, it's simple.
  • Final Condition (Damage Taken + Fatigue)
But what about...
  • Whether the character is at full-power or not?
  • Their emotional state?
I'll give an example. For some of us, we like to think that Jellal had no difficulty in defeating Neinhart. Likewise, Natsu one-shotted Jacob and so we would call it a low difficulty fight. It's true that neither Jellal nor Natsu took any major damage in those fights. However, keep in mind that Jellal was bloodlusted and Natsu resorted to FDKM. They actually tried... Could we really call this a no difficulty or low difficulty fight? Just imagine Jellal had taken Neinhart down casually while Natsu destroyed Jacob the same way but in Base Form instead. Now what would we call that? It can't be the same difficulty as before, right?

In fact, this idea can be applied to characters like Gray and Gajeel as well. Both are known to have an extreme amount of difficulty in their fights because of the amount of damage they took towards the end. But I think what has more of an impact in the difficulty was the fact that Gajeel resorted to DF while Gray was bloodlusted. Assuming both of them came out of their fights with no injuries, would you call it a stomp? After all, both Gajeel and Gray took out their opponents with just a few hits...
Final condition. When using the manga for reference, we can also take into factor how many fights the character has after the fight.

Emotional state affects power level, and whether or not a character can achieve something at less than full power is to their discretion. The thing is, it's very hard to determine what exactly someone's full power is and people don't always agree. Some people might look at a feat, and determine that it's only a fraction of a character's power. The other person might look at the same feat, and decide that it's towards the upper limit.
 
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Definitely final condition (injuries and fatigue).

Whenever I determine the difficulty of a battle, I base it off on the spectrum between Life and Death.

For example:

Max Difficulty --- Extreme Difficulty --- High Difficulty --- Mid Difficulty --- Easy Difficulty --- No Difficulty --- Stomp


That's my spectrum of "difficulty" every time you see me judge a battle. If you're asking for my conditions of each, then it'd be:


Max Difficulty: The guy beats his opponent with barely his own life. After the battle, he collapses on the ground and is probably bleeding with gashes covering his body. This is when the fight can almost go either way.

Extreme Difficulty: The guy secures a definite win, but is wounded pretty bad. He's probably exhausted from fatigue, but can still stand.

High Difficulty: The guy beats his opponent, but only has a few deep cuts and scratches. Most of it would be minor injuries. He's also probably breathing heavily at this point.

Mid Difficulty: The guy wins with only minor injuries. He might look ruffled up and be covered in dust, but that's about it. And he's barely breathing noticeably.

Easy Difficulty: The guys beats his opponent with absolutely no injuries. He might brush a patch of dust off his shoulders when he's done, but he could still go to a bar to unwind without anybody knowing he even got into a fight.

No Difficulty: To the guy who won, it didn't even seem like a battle. It felt like a one-sided annihilation that would normally be done by a bully.

Stomp: The guy slaughters his opponent into oblivion. The only kind of "breathing" he's doing at this point would be gasping for air since he's laughing too much.
 

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Hmm... I think this is where I kind of differ with the majority. I don't see anybody beating the Spriggans with No Difficulty in a real fight. Even in Jellal and Natsu's case. It's hard to name a "No Difficulty" fight, but the one that comes closest to my mind is Pre-Timeskip Gildarts versus Pre-Timeskip Natsu. Gildarts could literally wipe the floor with Natsu.

Although it is true that the amount of power a character uses is highly subjective, I tend to roll with that even if it means having to estimate. In my opinion, going by the final condition can be misleading. For example, after the 7 year timeskip, Base Natsu was being overwhelmed by Max. Now, in is forum, we differentiate between Base Natsu and LFD Natsu. But in reality, they are one and the same. So if a thread says "LFD Natsu vs Max", the I'll agree the difficulty is low. But if the thread says "Natsu vs Max" and the restrictions say Natsu starts out in Base, then I cannot say Natsu wins with No Difficulty. Because he didn't. The manga clearly shows Natsu struggling. Despite having no damage taken, Natsu was forced to use a power-up and that means he was having trouble.

In terms of power ranking, I always compare the strongest forms of either character. However, in a battle where I assign difficulties, I may or may not depending on the match-up and restrictions.
 
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Nice thread Elite.

Now


1. Describe the process you use in determining the winners of a battle.

I mainly put emphasis on character powerlevel,their consistencies and powersclaing.I don't always put emphasis on power hype.Sometimes calculations are correct.Normally hax magic don't work on stronger opponents but sometimes it does.But they can be countered in one way or the other.




2. Explain how you label the difficulty of a fight.


There are some difficulty levels.

One Shot
Stomp
Low Diff
Mid diff
High diff
Extreme diff

There are several sub categories among this like low mid diff,mid high diff etc.

Natsu VS Bluenote was an one shot.
Laxus VS Jura is an example of extreme diff fight.



3. Discuss how certain conditions in a fight can change the outcome for you.

Certain factors seriously affect the battles like the presence of support mages like an enchanter,previous injuries or exhaustion,environment and elemental advantages or resistance.


4. Differentiate between feats, hype, and portrayal.


Feats always should come first i believe.This really shows how powerful one is.


Hype sometimes are correct but not always.Like Acno's hype is true.

CSK has huge hype.


Potrayal os sometimes correct.

Like Gildarts saying God Serena is on his level.



END being made strong enough to kill Zeref.


5. Anything else?
Character statements sometimes figure.They may be wrong though like Makarov's statement of Jura being on the level of Gildarts.



But i take character statements about themselves true.Like Dimaria saying END is stronger than Chronos.Now if anyone says Dimaria can defeat END then it will be going against canon facts and Manga.
 

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Nice thread Elite.

Now


1. Describe the process you use in determining the winners of a battle.

I mainly put emphasis on character powerlevel,their consistencies and powersclaing.I don't always put emphasis on power hype.Sometimes calculations are correct.Normally hax magic don't work on stronger opponents but sometimes it does.But they can be countered in one way or the other.




2. Explain how you label the difficulty of a fight.


There are some difficulty levels.

One Shot
Stomp
Low Diff
Mid diff
High diff
Extreme diff

There are several sub categories among this like low mid diff,mid high diff etc.

Natsu VS Bluenote was an one shot.
Laxus VS Jura is an example of extreme diff fight.



3. Discuss how certain conditions in a fight can change the outcome for you.

Certain factors seriously affect the battles like the presence of support mages like an enchanter,previous injuries or exhaustion,environment and elemental advantages or resistance.


4. Differentiate between feats, hype, and portrayal.


Feats always should come first i believe.This really shows how powerful one is.


Hype sometimes are correct but not always.Like Acno's hype is true.

CSK has huge hype.


Potrayal os sometimes correct.

Like Gildarts saying God Serena is on his level.



END being made strong enough to kill Zeref.


5. Anything else?
Character statements sometimes figure.They may be wrong though like Makarov's statement of Jura being on the level of Gildarts.



But i take character statements about themselves true.Like Dimaria saying END is stronger than Chronos.Now if anyone says Dimaria can defeat END then it will be going against canon facts and Manga.
Thanks.

I agree with most of what you've said. But I'm actually the opposite when it comes to character statements. I don't take character statements about themselves at face value. So unless there is evidence to back it up, I tend to disregard them.
 

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I think it depends on the type of character statements as well

If a character is admitting that someone else better than them, then I generally believe the statement. If the character is hyping themselves up, like is the case with many villains, then I take it with a grain of salt. As a general rule of thumb: hyping your enemies > hyping your friends > hyping yourself.

Of course, feats settle things cleanly.
 

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While we're on the topic of battles, I've decided to give my opinions on some of the canon battles in FT:

(I'm assuming that this thread was created with a similar purpose in mind, but if there is a more appropriate thread for this post, then this can be moved)

Anyways, recently I've been paying attention to a lot of Fantasy battles or speculating/complaining about battles in the Alvarez Arc.

Very rarely do I talk about canon battles that have happened throughout the FT series, which I believe is often overlooked. Therefore, I would like to give a more in-depth analysis on a few significant match-ups in the manga, as well as list my opinions about that particular battle.


Here are some of the battles I'm going to address:


- Ultear Milkovich vs. Gray Fullbuster (Rating: 5/5)

I thought this was one of the most fleshed out battles in the manga that was very well balanced. For me, Gray freezing his own blood to counter Ultear's time magic was the most interesting part. It made sense since Ultear's time magic could not affect anything with living qualities. This was significant in the fact that it showcased Gray's tactical ability and intelligence while fighting his battles.

In my opinion, this fight was executed extremely well. And I do acknowledge that Gray had a slight advantage there with the relationship between Ur/Ultear. But nonetheless, it was still a well-fought battle and it showed good feats from both Ultear and Gray.

Best magic spells used in this fight: Gray's Ice Blade: Seven Slice Dance (Blood version) and Ultear's Ice Make: Rosen Krone


- Precht "Hades" Gaebolg vs. Makarov Dreyar (Rating: 5/5)

Another one of the best high quality fights in my opinion. Personally, I thought this battle was extremely well written because it showed the destined confrontation between Hades and Makarov. Considering they had a former master-student relationship, it was a perfect opportunity to see the difference in their power.

Without too much surprise, Hades pulled the victory, but it was no doubt one of the best fights I've seen. Both Makarov and Hades used powerful/advanced spells, which were well designed in my opinion.

I would've actually preferred for that fight to last longer, but it was too bad that Makarov's heart giving out caused it to get cut short. But I would take a rematch any day.

Best magic spells used in this fight: Hades' Amaterasu: Formula 100 and Makarov's Maximum Defense Seal: Three Pillar Gods


- Freed and Bickslow vs. Rustyrose (Rating: 4/5)

Yeah, this may be an odd one, but I found this match to be quite interesting as well. Freed and Bickslow fighting on behalf of the Thunder God Tribe was nothing short of badass. In my opinion, this battle gave Freed and Bickslow better feats than what was shown in the Fighting Festival Arc. Plus, this was the first time that the Thunder Legion was shown fighting on Fairy Tail's side.

My only complaint with this battle was the opponent that was chosen to fight against them. Personally, I thought Freed and Bickslow deserved a better opponent to fight than somebody like Rustyrose. If it were me, I would have chosen Azuma to fight the Thunder Legion, but I guess Rustyrose was acceptable enough.

Apart from that, the actual fighting was pretty decent, and the outcome ended up as expected with Freed and Bickslow winning.

Best magic spells used in this fight: Freed's Dark Écriture: Absolute Shadow and Bickslow's Seith Magic Puppeteer: Crush


- Bacchus vs. Elfman (Rating: 1/5)

This was one of the most disastrous fights of the GMG. As much as I give Elfman credit for being above an average FT mage, the way he won in this battle was poorly written. Bacchus, who was supposed to be the Erza equivalent of Quatro Cerberus, was beaten just because Fairy Tail Team A needed some points.

Especially after Bacchus entered his drunken state, I was sure he was going to win. It would have made sense that way because excessive alcohol consumption will numb the senses, which means Bacchus wouldn't be feeling any pain, even if he took damage.

Regardless, both sides in this battle were able to achieve some good feats, so I guess it was worth it in the end.

Best magic spells used in this fight: Bacchus' Palm Strike: Drunken Hanging-Chop Fist and Elfman's Beast Soul: Weretiger
 

Arjuna

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Thanks.

I agree with most of what you've said. But I'm actually the opposite when it comes to character statements. I don't take character statements about themselves at face value. So unless there is evidence to back it up, I tend to disregard them.
I take character statements if they say something about themselves.Suppose if character X says he is weaker than Y Character or if he says Z Character is on his level not weaker i will believe it normally.
 

Kiki

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1. Describe the process you use in determining the winners of a battle.

Basically, how much emphasis do you put on character stats? Do you believe in powerscaling methods? What about calculations? In your opinion, does hax magic have any limits?
I usually tend to imagine (I have an imagination in my brain) how a battle will go, along with considering the feats the participants have shown in manga. I believe hax magic have limits eventually. Ultimately, it really depends on a character in question. If he/she is relevant enough, then his/her hax magic will have limits. If he/she is irrelevant, then the author will leave his/her limits unknown. We all know that S12 is a bunch of hax users. Take example, Irene and DiMaria. Both Enchantment and Age Seal are hax magic, but only Enchantment has limits. Age Seal is left unknown. We all know that it can be countered by another time wizard but we probably will never know why August and Irene are stronger than DiMaria.

2. Explain how you label the difficulty of a fight.

Do you have a standard procedure that you go through to assign a difficulty to a battle? Or do you just go by your own gut feeling every single time there is a new match-up?
Mostly I will go with gut feeling. However, like I said before (me imagining how a battle will go), if one of participant of a battle blitzes opponent easily or doesn't struggle that much, I will call it easy difficulty. Oh and also I have to determine the tier of each participant. If each participant is on the same tier (take example Laxus vs Jellal), I will label it high difficulty or extreme difficulty.

3. Discuss how certain conditions in a fight can change the outcome for you.

Do you think an outnumbered match (1v2, 1v3, etc.) drastically impacts the result? What about the difference between a combat-mage and a support-mage? How much of a game-changer are elemental properties and slayer advantages?
It drastically does if we compare 1v1 to 1v3. 1v1 to 1v2 doesn't drastically imo. Elemental properties are not that much of a game-changer imo. It is something this manga doesn't care about. On the hand, slayer advantages are definitely game-changer. Sting defeating Larcade and Wendy not being able to scratch DiMaria but her being able to hurt Irene are ones of the best example.

4. Differentiate between feats, hype, and portrayal.

What makes hype and portrayal valid? Do you find any inconsistency in any feats? Or do you always accept them as a fact?
Feats: proofs shown in manga
Hype: unproven statement
Portrayal: readers' assumption
(hype and portrayal are pretty much the same. Both are just a tool to make everything exciting)

I tend to avoid hype and portrayal. This is what I have been doing from the start (I ever said I won't buy S12 hype so much to a member one year ago in a thread. Unfortunately I can't find the post for now). There is a good number of inconsistency, take example:


Brandish's Command T works on Base Natsu. Base Natsu beat Enchanted Neinhart. Command T doesn't work on Enchanted Neinhart. What is this called? Circular logic? I kinda dislike such thing.
 
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