Fantasy Elfman vs Gajeel

[Livinbreathineatin]

It was still a 2vs1 against Ajeel, Elfman was in 2vs2 against Madmole, and Elfman had a advantage against Ajeel unlike against Madmole.
Madmole has good defense, or not if he's taking damage against a Elfman who needed Lisanna help to beat Ajeel even with a disadvantage.
Jacob durability is shit, but that doesn't change the fact that he can clap and one-shot Mirajane & Madmole if he was serious. And there is nothing who suggers Madmole & Mirajane to have a higher MP than Jacob.

Madmole defense is Spriggan level, but most of them has hax who can one-shot Madmole. Having Spriggan defense level doesn't mean he's on they're level.
Elfman never defeated a Spriggan by himself, You can't deny the fact that Lisanna was helping him, and denying the fact that he had a big advantage against one of the weakest Spriggan.



If Elfman can damage Madmole, then the S12 can. Tanking only one Demo Fist from Natsu doesn't mean he's unbeatable.

Madmole has Spriggan defense level, but that doesn't mean he can beat a Spriggan.
We're talking about characters who has a way higher MP than Hades with devil heart, and most of them has insane hax.

First of all Madmole taking damage from Elfman doesn’t mean he’s not Spriggan level. Elfman has always been a physical power house and Elfman was the fighter against Ajeel. Unless you think him and freaking Lisanna did the same amount of damage against Ajeel? Use your common sense. It was Elfman’s fight with Lisanna as support. Even on panel we see Elfman fighting Ajeel while Lisanna either does nothing or flies him out of sand.

Nobody said Mira or Madmole have higher MP than Jacob. Where did that come from? You also don’t need higher MP then someone to beat them, since we saw almost every Spriggan lose to someone with less MP then they have. Large MP and hax don’t mean shit if you have terrible endurance, durability and shit hand to hand. E.g Brandish can one shot Erza with her hax but Brandish would 100% lose if Erza hits her with her dual enchanted blades. Jacob lost because he was weaker regardless of hax or how much MP he is..

so you admit Madmole stats are Spriggan level? So he’s Spriggan level? Thanks for contradicting yourself and agreeing with me.

 

[Sevently]

Cool, nothing to get past their armour, you keep ignoring this. He had a couple scratches against Elfman.

Madmole is definitely Spriggan level

Madmole has no way to put down any Spriggan, before they put him down.
Madmole is Elfman level who is not Spriggan level.

First of all Madmole taking damage from Elfman doesn’t mean he’s not Spriggan level. Elfman has always been a physical power house and Elfman was the fighter against Ajeel. Unless you think him and freaking Lisanna did the same amount of damage against Ajeel? Use your common sense. It was Elfman’s fight with Lisanna as support. Even on panel we see Elfman fighting Ajeel while Lisanna either does nothing or flies him out of sand.

Nobody said Mira or Madmole have higher MP than Jacob. Where did that come from? You also don’t need higher MP then someone to beat them, since we saw almost every Spriggan lose to someone with less MP then they have. Large MP and hax don’t mean shit if you have terrible endurance, durability and shit hand to hand. E.g Brandish can one shot Erza with her hax but Brandish would 100% lose if Erza hits her with her dual enchanted blades. Jacob lost because he was weaker regardless of hax or how much MP he is..

so you admit Madmole stats are Spriggan level? So he’s Spriggan level? Thanks for contradicting yourself and agreeing with me.

Elfman needed Lisanna support even with an advantage. This is like saying Sting is Larcade level because he won against him.
Spriggan level > Elfman=Madmole

Jacob was nerfed during his fight against Mira, he could just clap and kill Mira without any difficulties. Who care about endurance ? Brandish, Jacob or Dimaria don't need endurance to use theire hax against only one guy.

 

[Livinbreathineatin]

Madmole has no way to put down any Spriggan, before they put him down.
Madmole is Elfman level who is not Spriggan level.



Elfman needed Lisanna support even with an advantage. This is like saying Sting is Larcade level because he won against him.
Spriggan level > Elfman=Madmole

Jacob was nerfed during his fight against Mira, he could just clap and kill Mira without any difficulties. Who care about endurance ? Brandish, Jacob or Dimaria don't need endurance to use theire hax against only one guy.

Let me just prove you wrong now.

Neinhart, a Spariggan, would not be able to defeat Madmole. At all. Look at what Natsu’s punch did to Madmole vs what it didn’t against ENCHANTED Neinhart.
Yeah....we have also seen several of his historia’s get one shotted at the same time.
What attack would Neinhart use to put him down? He also has terrible endurance and durability. It won’t take much to defeat him physically in battle.

Elfman scratched Madmole. A bit of a leap to say that doesn’t make him Spriggan level, no? Literal scratches. It wasn’t a one shot or anything like that.

Madmole can defeat a Spriggan. He’s Spriggan level. I can go in more detail with other Spriggan’s if it would help.

Yeah, he needed support and when he was provided with it he knocked Ajeel out. He was strong enough to do it. E.g replace Elfman with Levy lol would the combo of Lisanna and Levy be able to replicate that feat? Elfman went onto to tie with someone with Spriggan level feats later on. Spriggan level. You could argue Elfman was Historia Spriggan level in Alvarez since he needed support to defeat Ajeel but he definitely is Spriggan level now in the sequel. He has had a years worth of training, new souls and new feats. You even admitted that Madmole has Spriggan tier defense. Elfman ties with him. What does that tell you....?

Mira was also nerfed in the fight lol she can only use BSS. Seems appropriate. Doesn’t change the fact that a Spriggan was knocked out by a punch from BSS, though. We can argue about hax all day, but one truth is if you restrict some of these Soriggan’s hax they really aren’t all that.

 

[grey matter]

Let me just prove you wrong now.

Neinhart, a Spariggan, would not be able to defeat Madmole. At all. Look at what Natsu’s punch did to Madmole vs what it didn’t against ENCHANTED Neinhart.
Yeah....we have also seen several of his historia’s get one shotted at the same time.
What attack would Neinhart use to put him down? He also has terrible endurance and durability. It won’t take much to defeat him physically in battle.

Elfman scratched Madmole. A bit of a leap to say that doesn’t make him Spriggan level, no? Literal scratches. It wasn’t a one shot or anything like that.

Madmole can defeat a Spriggan. He’s Spriggan level. I can go in more detail with other Spriggan’s if it would help.

Yeah, he needed support and when he was provided with it he knocked Ajeel out. He was strong enough to do it. E.g replace Elfman with Levy lol would the combo of Lisanna and Levy be able to replicate that feat? Elfman went onto to tie with someone with Spriggan level feats later on. Spriggan level. You could argue Elfman was Historia Spriggan level in Alvarez since he needed support to defeat Ajeel but he definitely is Spriggan level now in the sequel. He has had a years worth of training, new souls and new feats. You even admitted that Madmole has Spriggan tier defense. Elfman ties with him. What does that tell you....?

I was gonna mention Neinhart lol, but that guy's power really depends on the opponent's historia.
Well, now he can use Spriggan Historia as well. The power of his historia is dependent on the amount of magic power Neinhart puts into them. If Neinhart puts all of his magic power into any of the three Spriggan historia, instead of splitting them up like a fool, he's gonna beat Madmole convincingly.

Mira was also nerfed in the fight lol she can only use BSS. Seems appropriate. Doesn’t change the fact that a Spriggan was knocked out by a punch from BSS, though. We can argue about hax all day, but one truth is if you restrict some of these Soriggan’s hax they really aren’t all that.

Mira fought the guy blind, and not using his hax.
Jacob = trash without hax and proper close combat (blind)

Also, all Spriggans except August, Eileen, Serena, Wahl and Larcade (and maybe Ajeel) are absolute trash without their hax. They can be beaten by even x791 top tiers (Makarov, Jura, Kagura etc) pretty easily if you remove their hax.
Their entire strength = high magic power with hax. Beating them while restricting their hax is nothing to be proud of

 

[Ramen]

I was gonna mention Neinhart lol, but that guy's power really depends on the opponent's historia.
Well, now he can use Spriggan Historia as well. The power of his historia is dependent on the amount of magic power Neinhart puts into them. If Neinhart puts all of his magic power into any of the three Spriggan historia, instead of splitting them up like a fool, he's gonna beat Madmole convincingly.



Mira fought the guy blind, and not using his hax.
Jacob = trash without hax and proper close combat (blind)

Also, all Spriggans except August, Eileen, Serena, Wahl and Larcade (and maybe Ajeel) are absolute trash without their hax. They can be beaten by even x791 top tiers (Makarov, Jura, Kagura etc) pretty easily if you remove their hax.
Their entire strength = high magic power with hax. Beating them while restricting their hax is nothing to be proud of

August is still a top CQC fighter. He is not losing to Makarov, Jura, or Kagura. Stop it.

Irene is a dragon so she's stomping 99.99 of mages. She lost to PoF Erza who is the most deadly mage other than PoF Natsu.

Serena doesn't have hax, he has 8 DS magic and has earned his reputation.

 

[grey matter]

August is still a top CQC fighter. He is not losing to Makarov, Jura, or Kagura. Stop it.

Irene is a dragon so she's stomping 99.99 of mages. She lost to PoF Erza who is the most deadly mage other than PoF Natsu.

Serena doesn't have hax, he has 8 DS magic and has earned his reputation.

My boi, read properly lol.

I said all EXCEPT them are trash without hax

 

[Ramen]

My boi, read properly lol.

I said all EXCEPT them are trash without hax

Oh mb lool I was about to freak.

 

[Livinbreathineatin]

I was gonna mention Neinhart lol, but that guy's power really depends on the opponent's historia.
Well, now he can use Spriggan Historia as well. The power of his historia is dependent on the amount of magic power Neinhart puts into them. If Neinhart puts all of his magic power into any of the three Spriggan historia, instead of splitting them up like a fool, he's gonna beat Madmole convincingly.



Mira fought the guy blind, and not using his hax.
Jacob = trash without hax and proper close combat (blind)

Also, all Spriggans except August, Eileen, Serena, Wahl and Larcade (and maybe Ajeel) are absolute trash without their hax. They can be beaten by even x791 top tiers (Makarov, Jura, Kagura etc) pretty easily if you remove their hax.
Their entire strength = high magic power with hax. Beating them while restricting their hax is nothing to be proud of

That Neinhart strategy still doesn’t work. E.g he puts all his magic in historia Wahl. Same guy couldn’t put down weakened Laxus so he obviously doesn’t have enough firepower to put down Madmole. Madmole then one shots Neinhart who put all his magic in one historia. Lol.

Regardless whether or not beating Jacob is something to be proud of, Mira tied with Skullion which is the better feat anyway. Also Jacob fought a weakened Mira and still lost to her so...

 

[grey matter]

That Neinhart strategy still doesn’t work. E.g he puts all his magic in historia Wahl. Same guy couldn’t put down weakened Laxus so he obviously doesn’t have enough firepower to put down Madmole. Madmole then one shots Neinhart who put all his magic in one historia. Lol.

Regardless whether or not beating Jacob is something to be proud of, Mira tied with Skullion which is the better feat anyway. Also Jacob fought a weakened Mira and still lost to her so...

He went toe to toe with Laxus in physical combat, until his disease kicked in. Also, Wahl arguably has one of the highest attack power with etherion, Etherion gonna one shot Madmole.
Madmole isn't beating any Spriggan, because the stronger Spriggans will overwhelm him physically and in combat. The fodder ones wreck him with hax.
Madmole is decently powerful against mages that fight straight forward, without hax. But he gets stomped by hax, and he hasn't shown that his magic power if high enough to resist hax

Sure, her feats against Skullion is impressive. I can see her being low-mid tier Spriggan level

 

[Livinbreathineatin]

He went toe to toe with Laxus in physical combat, until his disease kicked in. Also, Wahl arguably has one of the highest attack power with etherion, Etherion gonna one shot Madmole.
Madmole isn't beating any Spriggan, because the stronger Spriggans will overwhelm him physically and in combat. The fodder ones wreck him with hax.
Madmole is decently powerful against mages that fight straight forward, without hax. But he gets stomped by hax, and he hasn't shown that his magic power if high enough to resist hax

Sure, her feats against Skullion is impressive. I can see her being low-mid tier Spriggan level

So Wahl hits harder than Natsu but failed to defeat Laxus? Lol. Madmole can tank whatever Neinhart can throw at him.

 

[grey matter]

So Wahl hits harder than Natsu but failed to defeat Laxus? Lol. Madmole can tank whatever Neinhart can throw at him.

Yeah, because Wahl was retarded. We don't count PIS in this fight.
Neinhart isn't attacking himself, he creates a single historia and powers it to mid-high tier Spriggan level

 

[Axiomus]

Elfman beat Ajeel. You're not going to convince me that Lisanna's support was a major game changer in terms of Elfman's overall fighting ability. Lisanna is weaker than Lucy. She would have dealt less damage to Ajeel than Lucy kick did to Jacob, and Lucy kick did like zero damage to Jacob. The most helpful scenario for Lisanna in that fight is if she carried Elfman from his back, and prevented him from falling into Ajeel's sandpits. While you could argue that would have allowed Elfman to counter some of Ajeel's attacks that he wouldn't have otherwise, this role could have been fulfilled by any exceed. Elfman would have had to deal the vast majority of the damage to Ajeel, and probably shielded Lisanna when it came to taking any real attacks.

Madmole doesn't have Spriggan level defense. Madmole's defense is vastly, vastly superior to most Spriggans. He not only tanks blows from Natsu that have oneshotted other Spriggans, but he actually makes him hurt himself with his own attacks.

 

[Livinbreathineatin]

Elfman beat Ajeel. You're not going to convince me that Lisanna's support was a major game changer in terms of Elfman's overall fighting ability. Lisanna is weaker than Lucy. She would have dealt less damage to Ajeel than Lucy kick did to Jacob, and Lucy kick did like zero damage to Jacob. The most helpful scenario for Lisanna in that fight is if she carried Elfman from his back, and prevented him from falling into Ajeel's sandpits. While you could argue that would have allowed Elfman to counter some of Ajeel's attacks that he wouldn't have otherwise, this role could have been fulfilled by any exceed. Elfman would have had to deal the vast majority of the damage to Ajeel, and probably shielded Lisanna when it came to taking any real attacks.

Madmole doesn't have Spriggan level defense. Madmole's defense is vastly, vastly superior to most Spriggans. He not only tanks blows from Natsu that have oneshotted other Spriggans, but he actually makes him hurt himself with his own attacks.

I forgot about the ricochet damage. Most Spriggan’s that would try hand to hand are screwed.

 

[Ramen]

Elfman beat Ajeel. You're not going to convince me that Lisanna's support was a major game changer in terms of Elfman's overall fighting ability. Lisanna is weaker than Lucy. She would have dealt less damage to Ajeel than Lucy kick did to Jacob, and Lucy kick did like zero damage to Jacob. The most helpful scenario for Lisanna in that fight is if she carried Elfman from his back, and prevented him from falling into Ajeel's sandpits. While you could argue that would have allowed Elfman to counter some of Ajeel's attacks that he wouldn't have otherwise, this role could have been fulfilled by any exceed. Elfman would have had to deal the vast majority of the damage to Ajeel, and probably shielded Lisanna when it came to taking any real attacks.

Madmole doesn't have Spriggan level defense. Madmole's defense is vastly, vastly superior to most Spriggans. He not only tanks blows from Natsu that have oneshotted other Spriggans, but he actually makes him hurt himself with his own attacks.

Scared me for a second. I was going to ask @Kiki to ban you

 

[Ronin31]

For me, the fight is a close one : I think about Elfman vs Gajeel. Elfman tanked Mardmole which is an optimize Gajeel's character's like. Around same physical strength but his Body is far tougher than Gajeel's Iron.

With Shadow's properties, Gajeel is more versatile as he can take Elfman by surprise the same way he did with Natsu but still, Elfman is a tough physical one as well.

I am really unsure about the winner here. The fight should be an extreme diff one for both.

 

[grey matter]

For me, the fight is a close one : I think about Elfman vs Gajeel. Elfman tanked Mardmole which is an optimize Gajeel's character's like. Around same physical strength but his Body is far tougher than Gajeel's Iron.

With Shadow's properties, Gajeel is more versatile as he can take Elfman by surprise the same way he did with Natsu but still, Elfman is a tough physical one as well.

I am really unsure about the winner here. The fight should be an extreme diff one for both.

It's not gonna be extreme diff. That's like saying LFD Natsu will extreme diff Elfman, which I don't see happening at all. ISM Gajeel is same tier as LFD Natsu.

I guess high diff is possible. mid-high diff win for Gajeel IMO

 

[Ronin31]

That's like saying LFD Natsu will extreme diff Elfman, which I don't see happening at all. ISM Gajeel is same tier as LFD Natsu.

In my opinion, LFD Natsu is stronger than ISM Gajeel.

Shadow gives him mobility (speed, dodge and surprise attacks) and a stronger Roar (still don't understand why Gajeel never uses his strongest attack with dual elements). Lightning gives Natsu an addition of raw power to all his Fire attacks, not only Roar.

Gajeel didn't impress me vs Natsu who could match him without any Modes. He used LFD with anger only to push him back. We haven't seen him using it to deal damage on Gajeel. Gajeel is strong, near Natsu as same Mode but still below.

Werelion Elfman seems to have improve more in a year. I can see him nearly matching Gajeel now.

I can see Gajeel winning with his versatility, not his raw power as Elfman is a beast now. High diff battle is a minimum for me.

 

[Jko]

Elf kind of impressed me more than Gajeel and Gray in the Aldo arc imo. He should at least give Gajeel a hell of a fight, if not even possibly win. Beating up Madmole with power attacks is a huge feat.

 

[Sevently]

df gajeel one-shot

 

[Ronin31]

Gajeel can't use Dragon Force by himself.