Language English Study Thread - Polish your forums communication skills!

Leen

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I'm surprised to see that this thread had not been created. :o Everyone uses English here and yet, we don't have a thread to discuss English itself? :darn Well, I have to do something, thus the birth of this thread.

I am studying English myself and being an avid learner, I think that sharing is the best way to learn. I have this quote I made for myself, "To learn is to teach, to teach is to learn". So this place is the place where people can ask about English, just anything from idiomatic expressions to basic grammatical mistakes to esoteric lexicon. Everything about English is welcomed into this thread. Just be courteous to each other and learn English the fun way around. :nuts

Let's begin then! :D
 

Ayah

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Re: The English Thread!! XD

First! :D

Since we can talk about about grammatical errors here, I need to point out that it's courteous and not curteous :p

I guess people are too embarrassed to start one because this is the medium we're using to communicate here. That reminds me, I remember a post of mine in the Fun Forum where I explained one of the meanings of the word fixture. I'll go look for it.[br]Posted on: August 24, 2006, 05:10:28 PM_________________________________________________Found it! Just scroll down for the definition. The link should point why the word was brought up in the first place.
 

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Re: The English Thread!! XD

Ayah said:
First! :D

Since we can talk about about grammatical errors here, I need to point out that it's courteous and not curteous :p

I guess people are too embarrassed to start one because this is the medium we're using to communicate here. That reminds me, I remember a post of mine in the Fun Forum where I explained one of the meanings of the word fixture. I'll go look for it.[br]Posted on: August 24, 2006, 05:10:28 PM_________________________________________________Found it! Just scroll down for the definition. The link should point why the word was brought up in the first place.
I use the same online dictionary, but I didn't find a good one for Italian-English.
 

Leen

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Re: The English Thread!! XD

I know that it's courteous. >.>
Forgive my stupid spelling mistake.
 

kyubisharingan

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Re: The English Thread!! XD

So just english speaking people...thats cool
 

Leen

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Re: The English Thread!! XD

Just something interesting here..... (by the way, that is not even a sentence, it's just a phrase)

I live with my siblings and parents, whom you have met before.
I live with my parents and siblings, whom you have met before.
I live with my parents and siblings whom you have met before.
I live with my siblings and parents whom you have met before.

I had my grammar class earlier on and I was intrigued to know the response from all of you regarding those 4 sentences above. What do they mean? I had a great time listening to all the debating and discussion about those 4 sentences so I just want to share them with you. XD

For those of you who want to know the explanation to those 4 sentences, here you go.

Sentence one actually tells us that "I" is living with his siblings and his parents, and we have met his parents.
Sentence 2 tells us that "I" is living with his siblings and his parents, and we have met his siblings.
Sentence 3 and sentence 4 are the same.
They tell us that "I" live with his parents and his siblings, and we have met both his parents and siblings.

Interesting? :D
 

Ayah

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Re: The English Thread!! XD

Eileen said:
Just something interesting here..... (by the way, that is not even a sentence, it's just a phrase)

I live with my siblings and parents, whom you have met before.
I live with my parents and siblings, whom you have met before.
I live with my parents and siblings whom you have met before.
I live with my siblings and parents whom you have met before.

I had my grammar class earlier on and I was intrigued to know the response from all of you regarding those 4 sentences above. What do they mean? I had a great time listening to all the debating and discussion about those 4 sentences so I just want to share them with you. XD

For those of you who want to know the explanation to those 4 sentences, here you go.

Sentence one actually tells us that "I" is living with his siblings and his parents, and we have met his parents.
Sentence 2 tells us that "I" is living with his siblings and his parents, and we have met his siblings.
Sentence 3 and sentence 4 are the same.
They tell us that "I" live with his parents and his siblings, and we have met both his parents and siblings.

Interesting? :D
It's all in the comma and what directly precedes it :tem Is this an example of what troubles you with regard to critical reading? Another point, how come those 4 are considered phrases and not sentences? "I live with my siblings and parents/parents and siblings" is a sentence already; a phrase was added next to it.
 

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Re: The English Thread!! XD

There is a lot of advantages..
OR
There are lots of advantages..

I have been working there for 3 years
OR
I have worked there for 3 years

Me and my friends..
OR
My friends and I..

I saw her today
OR
I have seen her today


Sorry if those questions are [?a little bit?] silly, just sometimes they confused me o_O;
and because it's the perfect thread to discuss it, so..
 

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Re: The English Thread!! XD

you_know_who said:
There is a lot of advantages..
OR
There are lots of advantages..
The second one, because "advantages" is plural.

I have been working there for 3 years
OR
I have worked there for 3 years
I think the first one implies that you're still working in that place, as you have for the past 3 years.
The second one, I think, is used to inform the other person that you used to work there, but not anymore.
...Also, I think both are grammatically correct.

Me and my friends..
OR
My friends and I..
I get confused about this too, sometimes. But I'm 90% sure it's the second one.

I saw her today
OR
I have seen her today
Not sure about this one. I think the second one is more emphatic than the first one

....Don't fully take my word on this XD As English isn't my first language, and I'm just a teenager...I don't know much about these stuff XD
 

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Re: The English Thread!! XD

I can help here a lot....as I am from the U.S.A., where English has been edited for our own brand of.......speaking.......ask me any random English language questions....I'll try to answer them......or at least make up a decent-sounding lie to hopefully convey the meaning..... :XD
 

Ayah

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Re: The English Thread!! XD

ウオジサマ said:
The second one, because "advantages" is plural.
I am also confused with this. I think I usually choose the first but he's probably right :paperbag (English isn't my first language either.)

ウオジサマ said:
I think the first one implies that you're still working in that place, as you have for the past 3 years.
The second one, I think, is used to inform the other person that you used to work there, but not anymore.
...Also, I think both are grammatically correct.
I'm sure he's right.

ウオジサマ said:
I get confused about this too, sometimes. But I'm 90% sure it's the second one.
I also bet that it's the second.

you_know_who said:
I saw her today
Off topic, but that phrase made me think of the movie "Saw" :tem Anyway, I agree with p1noypr1de with this too. These 2 phrases are also grammatically correct.
 

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Re: The English Thread!! XD

you_know_who said:
I have been working there for 3 years
OR
I have worked there for 3 years

im fairly sure that the first one is incorrect. there are three conjigated verbs next to each other, which doesnt sit right with me, but have and been are both in the past tense, while working is in the present tense. usaully a verb following any form of "be" is in the present progressive tense ( i am working there). i have worked there for 3 years would be my choice here. actaulyl my choice would be "i worked there for three years", but ill extend on that further later.


you_know_who said:
Me and my friends..
OR
My friends and I..

its most def my friends and i. my sister used to pound that into my head.

the forth one you are on your own for. im fairly sure its the first one. but grammer isnt my strong point.


ok, im american. and i speak american, not english. i think that there are too many differences to call them the same. i drive a truck filled with gas, not a tory toped with petrol. now one thing that id like to say is that grammer isnt really that big a deal to us. i mean, sure if your going for a job or somthing, then youve got to impress them, but we are a nation of lazy people. im fairly sure we are the only people, besides the french, to use a ' (i have no idea how to spell that) and most of us dont (<<see!) even use it! i say yall, not you all, not ya all. english/american is my first of many languages. oh, and this just poped into my mind:

numbers in sentences that are under three word should be spelt out. over three, use the numbers:

i have three hundred wigits
i have one million wigits
i have 45396 wigits

different people set that bar at different places, but at the printing place i worked, it was three.
 

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Re: The English Thread!! XD

you_know_who said:
There is a lot of advantages..
OR
There are lots of advantages..
As previously stated, its the second one.

you_know_who said:
I have been working there for 3 years
OR
I have worked there for 3 years
I don't think that you would come accross "I have been working there" very often in general conversation, but they mean pretty much the same thing. The only real difference would be that someone could see the second one as meaning that you no longer work there, but I would assume that you still do. This is more an example of passive voice than a difference of translation.

you_know_who said:
Me and my friends..
OR
My friends and I..
My friends and I is the gramatically correct form, but both are accepted (or at least used) in the US. "My friends and I" basically just makes you sound more educated to another educated person. ;)

you_know_who said:
I saw her today
OR
I have seen her today
Depends what you are trying to say, the difference here is that one is in passive voice. They mean pretty much the same thing, though in general conversation you would most likely hear "I saw her today".

That being said, its about time someone started an English thread! Ironic that it wasn't started by a native speaker too...
Anyway, like goofy I'm American, which means that I can help you with the American dialect of English. I've studied English in a school for 13 years now (grade school to my first year at uni) and i still don't know some of the rules and little things, so just remember that there are no bad questions, though there could be stupid ones (JUST KIDDING!).

Also for more on passive voice verse active voice:
http://www.unc.edu/depts/wcweb/handouts/passivevoice.html
 

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Re: The English Thread!! XD

I know it's "I was" and not "I were", but whenever I hear anyone talking about them wanting to be rain, they say:

"If I were the rain"

Does that mean that I must say "I were" every time I want to talk about myself being something plural?
 

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Re: The English Thread!! XD

ibra87 said:
I know it's "I was" and not "I were", but whenever I hear anyone talking about them wanting to be rain, they say:

"If I were the rain"

Does that mean that I must say "I were" every time I want to talk about myself being something plural?
No, you are not indicating that you are plural by saying "I were. . ." In fact, you can only use that combination in an "if" phase: "IF I were. . . . " It's a special case for the "if" phase (sorry that I don't know the official, fancy name for this type of phase), I don't know why, but that's just how it is.
You ALWAYS use "were" if you are using the "if" phase to talk about something that is not true. (Don't freak out, I know I did a bad job at explaining. That's why there's an example). For example,

If he were a rich man, he would build a big house. << The "if" and the past-tense word, "were", indicate that the man IS NOT rich.

So that's what I mean by talking about something that is not true.
Now back to the point. You always use "were" in this kind of sentence structure/ meaning for every subject (he, she, it, I, you, we, and they).

If I/he/she/it/we/they/you were rich, I/he/she/it/we/they/you would build a big house. << You can choose any pronouns, and the sentence would be grammatically correct all the same.

Hope this helps.
 

Leen

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Re: The English Thread!! XD

Actually, there's a name for this. Conditionals.

There are 3 types of conditionals too.

The first type. present tense..., will....
If it rains, I will be wet.
If she goes to church, she will be saved.
If they go to school today, I will be surprised.

This conditionals are refering to present situation or something that it true. It has not happen but it might happen.

Second type. past tense...., would .....
If I were a bird, I would fly to heaven.
If she were there, he would run away.
If the dog barked, the thief would run away.

Remember, no matter which user it is, the verb behind that pronoun is still "were". It is talking about something fictional. If I were a millionaire.... means I am not a millionaire but what if I am.

Third type. past perfect....., would have been....
If they had locked the door, the office would not have been broken in by the burglar.
If she had run faster, we would have won the race.

This is past unreal situation. The things had happened and we are talking it from the past. Like the first sentence, the office had been broken in. Now they were mourning about it and discussed how "if they had locked the door..............by the burglar." In the second sentence, same thing. The team lose the race. Thus, they were blaming it on that girl, saying that "If she HAD run fast, we WOULD HAVE won the race."

I hope this helps. ;)
 

eni

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Re: The English Thread!! XD

I missed this thread :wtf

As you can see my grammar is a disaster ;___; ... what you can't see: this also goes for speaking and listening comprehension (my schooltime is over since 10 years and I'm just writing in international boards with a bunch of non-native speakers and also barley speak or hear it, so what do you expect? >.>).

But I would like to have an English language test certificate for my CV and references after my studys, so I started my training again a while ago and also I asked native speaker to correct me at msn (so, feel free to correct me anytime <.<).

What kind of language test would you recommend? TOEFL? TOEIC? ESOL? Another one?
Which one is the best for international applications and studys?
:blink

Any good links to train my grammar?
 

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Re: The English Thread!! XD

eni!!! :luv

I can help you out with English anytime on msn. Come to msn and look for me. XD I had a "great" time mastering grammar for 3 months, passing the test with a "A" at last, very much to my relief..... phew.....

As for international English proficiency test, I myself had taken TOEFL, so generally I would recommend TOEFL because it's not too difficult compare to IELTS and other tests. However, TOEFL test is based on iBT nowadays (Internet-based test) and it also includes a new section, speaking, which I flunked during my test. =/ Still, if you need anything, I'll be at your service. :D [br]Posted on: December 11, 2006, 09:03:20 PM_________________________________________________You might find this link useful too: http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/
 

eni

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Re: The English Thread!! XD

eileen!! :luv (you love this kao too, eh? :D)

Thank you so much for offering your help. I never cared about English during school time and a few years after school I started using the Internet and decided to study about multi- and crosscultures and suddenly needed to read and write English soooo much. It's a shame I can't do it better - but i will become better! xD

Eileen said:
I had a "great" time mastering grammar for 3 months, passing the test with a "A" at last, very much to my relief..... phew.....
oh my :blink ... three months? that's hell :XD

Eileen said:
As for international English proficiency test, I myself had taken TOEFL, so generally I would recommend TOEFL because it's not too difficult compare to IELTS and other tests. However, TOEFL test is based on iBT nowadays (Internet-based test) and it also includes a new section, speaking, which I flunked during my test. =/
Yes, I had TOEFL in mind, but wasn't sure if it's the right thing when searching for a job. I don't want to study in a foreign country (maybe - just maybe - studying my master's degree there), but i don't need all this business conversation (TOEIC) either.
ESOL offers different levels and also a certificate for teacher (maybe useful as a socialworker in a foreign country? :blink), so far this seems to be the best, i think ... hmhmhm ...

Eileen said:
You might find this link useful too: http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/
Oh, thank you. This page looks great.
I like the quiz page. So much more helpful then just reading texts :clap
 

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Re: The English Thread!! XD

Thanks a lot Rab & Eileen :luv

I actually learned something new today. Hrph, I look forward to the day I master the English grammar without any effort.
 
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