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[Finals - Team 3 vs Team 12 Doubles 1] Taira/Momoshiro vs Tachibana/Chitose

Who will win?

  • Taira Yoshiyuki/Momoshiro Takeshi

    Votes: 4 40.0%
  • Tachibana Kippei/Chitose Senri

    Votes: 6 60.0%

  • Total voters
    10
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LetalHawk

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This post is full of assumptions.

Rai is stronger than BJK?
So you think Sanada will hit Rai once to Momoshiro and it will snap off his wrists in one shot? Even though BJK ALSO breaks racket guts.

You say BJK could be returned with the racket frame, in this series, the racket frame can return anything I gues.

Tachibana returning Bakyuun no problem?? That's nonsense. We don't know that at all.

Otherwise Taira wouldn't have been the No.18 if it is so easy to return.
But he'll have problems with Bakyuun, but eventually he'll return it. Easy to return, it's path is simple, the only problem is power. So you're telling me that with BJK, Momo is physically stronger than Tachibana, if Momo returned Bakyuun, Tachibana who is levels above can't? I see Tachibana using Mojuu No Aura and returning the shot, but maybe that would take some points.

Well, Kintarou returned BJK no problem first try, however, Rai, he wouldn't have been able to return it. I'm not saying Rai breaks your wrists, but for now the gut will always be broken by it. BJK breaks your gut and wrists also but you can return it if you have enough power, on the other hand, everytime Sanada used Rai, nobody returned it directly with the gut.
 
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Ninomiya

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...and the chapter when Niou achieves Muga is where?
Are you serious?
Niou achieves the Muga doors through his Illusion.
You should be able work something out like that yourself without people spelling it out. I obviously meant the doors.
Niou can use nearly everything.
 

ashore

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i'm still amazed by momo's bjk, it broke through 2 racket guts ? and damaged 2 player's wrists in one shot.
 

Hardy

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Are you serious?
Niou achieves the Muga doors through his Illusion.
You should be able work something out like that yourself without people spelling it out. I obviously meant the doors.
Niou can use nearly everything.
No, Fayte is right. Unless the character he's copying has Muga, he cannot use it. Atobe, Kikumaru, every single one he copied while in Synchro, none of them had Muga.

I don't think that he's able to use Muga by himself.
 

Phantron

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Tezuka doesn't have regular Muga so I'd guess Niou copying Tezuka won't have Muga either.

But I don't see why you'd even want to do Muga when you can do Hyakuren aura. Does anyone think regular Muga even has a chance at defeating Hyakuren aura?
 

Fayte

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Phantron said:
But I don't see why you'd even want to do Muga when you can do Hyakuren aura. Does anyone think regular Muga even has a chance at defeating Hyakuren aura?
Niou can not use any Muga techniques at all. He can only give off the "illusion" of the person he is copying. So Niou can't use Hyakuren if he does not copy Tezuka. But yeah, there is no point to copying people weaker than Tezuka, in which case makes Niou a useless character.

As for the question of if Muga is possible in synchro, I would say no. For one, you must be yourself in order to use synchro. Muga is the "selfLESS" state. It is the absence of oneself, hence the usage of others' techniques. You wouldn't be able to communicate to your partner in a muga state, making synchro impossible.
 

-Ken-

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I don't see why any of these discussion matter. As far as we know, full control over beast syncho right now is simply assumption. Tachibana/Chitose is 3rd court level pair, which isn't anywhere near 1st stringer. It's like debating Fuji can beat Sanada because he's one of the high tier. It's just a different tier all together.
 

Phantron

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The G11-20 guys are more like 'free xp for the black jacket team'. Yes in theory they stomped court 3 which gave the winner's bracket guys a hard time but the winner's bracket guys already surpassed them at the end of training anyway. When the team roster was listed Kirihara was saying how come MSers didn't show up on the roster even though they've a better chance of winning, so unless he's just making stuff up, that means at that point the winner's bracket team has surpassed court 3. Honestly I'd say the court 3 guys were used as fodder to weaken the G11-20 so that black jacket team can pick up an easy win.
 

-Ken-

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The G11-20 guys are more like 'free xp for the black jacket team'. Yes in theory they stomped court 3 which gave the winner's bracket guys a hard time but the winner's bracket guys already surpassed them at the end of training anyway. When the team roster was listed Kirihara was saying how come MSers didn't show up on the roster even though they've a better chance of winning, so unless he's just making stuff up, that means at that point the winner's bracket team has surpassed court 3. Honestly I'd say the court 3 guys were used as fodder to weaken the G11-20 so that black jacket team can pick up an easy win.
Kirihara doesn't say that. He say MS have good win %. It means in the court shuffle, they manage to win a lot of the times. I'm thinking that it's all 100%. And because it's all 100%, the coach decided to go with the HS instead of MS.

Also, there's NOTHING that shows winner surpass the 3rd court at the end of training. It's "assumption". It is a good assumption, and I think it's most likely true. But until we saw those guys next match, we can't gauge their actual level. So for now, they are 3rd court level player. Anything above that is pure assumption.

Assumption are cool and all, but if we simply go by assumption and not facts, that just make this tournament a popularity contest and not really a tournament. Here's an example of why you shouldn't use assumption. In that case, Fuji have a very real chance of beating Sanada. He already lost to Tezuka, and he wouldn't lost to same opponent twice. So next time he play, he should be at TnK! Tezuka level. And that should be able to crush Sanada. I just don't think assumption should be use as a base for matches in this tournament.
 
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Fayte

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Ken, shut the hell up about assumption. You assume just as much as others with everything you say.

Ken said:
Hyakuren+Saiki would have beat Yukimura based on what we've seen and Yips most likely wouldn't kick in at all.
Ken said:
WoK use beast syncho and most likely can't even control it
Ken said:
Fuji techniques is most likely a stronger tech than Viking Horn
Ken said:
I'll say Hiyoshi back then is most likely better than Jirou.
Ken said:
back then Amane>Hiyoshi>Jirou
Ken said:
Sanada will lose because his knee will give out at that point, and at that point, he's just plain weak.
Ken said:
I don't think Fuji CAN win 5 games though. 2, or 3, max.
Ken said:
He already lost to Tezuka, and he wouldn't lost to same opponent twice. So next time he play, he should be at TnK! Tezuka level.
I rest my case.
 
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-Ken-

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Ken, shut the hell up about assumption. You assume just as much as others with everything you say.










I rest my case.
@ Last Qoute
Here's an example of why you shouldn't use assumption


I was wrong to assume you can read. Sorry about that.

@Yips. It's based on explanation given in the PoT. Do you happen to read it? Because I do. If it's written in the manga, it's not assumption

It's either WoK can't use Beast Syncho freely yet, and that's why they fail to beat the 3rd court. Or they can use it freely but the skill just makes them 3rd court lv. Either way, they lost to 3rd court.

@Fuji&Viking Horn. Lol, really? Gate/Hoshi Hanabi. I really hope you're not serious. In case you are, Kai must be stronger than Fuji, Tezuka, Niou, and Shiraishi in National, then, huh? That wasn't suppose to be a statement, by the way. So please don't use that as an example of how I think. I'll make it clear, I don't think Kai can top those 4.

@Sanada. It's based on the knee until Sanada go up during battle with Tezuka. If Sanada have one leg, he won't beat Fuji. Yes, that's an assumption. It's a reasonable assumption.

I'll admit the other point are assumption. Hence the "I think" part. I thnk means in my opinion. That makes it rather clear. Don't you agree. Wait, guess not.

Now, show me a page in SPoT that shows Tachibana/Chitose are NOT 3rd court lv. Thanks. And thanks for not being rude by saying

shut the hell up
Please do so too.
 
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Ninomiya

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No, Fayte is right. Unless the character he's copying has Muga, he cannot use it. Atobe, Kikumaru, every single one he copied while in Synchro, none of them had Muga.

I don't think that he's able to use Muga by himself.
I meant through his illusions. Are you being serious?? Or are you joking?
Niou can become them of course. This is so annoying. I OBVIOUSLY MEANT HE BECOMES CHITOSE OR TEZUKA.

I EVEN SAID ''HE CAN USE NEARLY EVERYTHING''.
WHAT ELSE COULD YOU AND FAYTE THINK WHEN I SAID THIS???

NIOU OBVIOUSLY CANNOT USE IT BY HIMSELF.

To think I would have to spell it out for you both completely.
To think I would have to say more than ''Niou achieves the Muga doors through his Illusion''.
His ''Illusion''. Do you not know what the Illusions mean???

Niou's Illusion for anybody else who doesn't know.
It's when he becomes somebody to use their techniques and abilities.

---------- Post added at 09:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 AM ----------

Niou can not use any Muga techniques at all. He can only give off the "illusion" of the person he is copying. So Niou can't use Hyakuren if he does not copy Tezuka. But yeah, there is no point to copying people weaker than Tezuka, in which case makes Niou a useless character.

As for the question of if Muga is possible in synchro, I would say no. For one, you must be yourself in order to use synchro. Muga is the "selfLESS" state. It is the absence of oneself, hence the usage of others' techniques. You wouldn't be able to communicate to your partner in a muga state, making synchro impossible.
Niou uses the Illusion.
This means he becomes Tezuka. Becoming Tezuka is part of his Illusion if you didn't know.

Niou's Illusion are the real thing. As said so in the manga.
He actually used Hyakku Ren. He actually used Synchro. He's just limited by his own physique.

When I meant Muga I meant its doors. Niou didn't use its doors in Synchro.

I said he uses Muga techniques through his Illusions myself. So what have you said? The same thing I said.

---------- Post added at 09:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 AM ----------

@ Last Qoute
Here's an example of why you shouldn't use assumption

@Yips. It's based on explanation given in the PoT. Do you happen to read it? Because I do. If it's written in the manga, it's not assumption
Considering after seeing Fuwa, Yuki doesn't need to be winning to inflict Yips anymore. So its assumption.
It's assumption to assume Yips cannot kick in.

Also, Sanada lasted really long against Tezuka before his knees gave in. That was 7-5. That's a lot longer than what most players would take Sanada to.
Not sure if he was knee will give out too easily with the general raise in ''invisible improvement'' all MSers got.
 

Phantron

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Kirihara doesn't say that. He say MS have good win %. It means in the court shuffle, they manage to win a lot of the times. I'm thinking that it's all 100%. And because it's all 100%, the coach decided to go with the HS instead of MS.

Also, there's NOTHING that shows winner surpass the 3rd court at the end of training. It's "assumption". It is a good assumption, and I think it's most likely true. But until we saw those guys next match, we can't gauge their actual level. So for now, they are 3rd court level player. Anything above that is pure assumption.

Assumption are cool and all, but if we simply go by assumption and not facts, that just make this tournament a popularity contest and not really a tournament. Here's an example of why you shouldn't use assumption. In that case, Fuji have a very real chance of beating Sanada. He already lost to Tezuka, and he wouldn't lost to same opponent twice. So next time he play, he should be at TnK! Tezuka level. And that should be able to crush Sanada. I just don't think assumption should be use as a base for matches in this tournament.
The only way Kirihara's statement would make sense by your interpretation is if every person in the top 20 on the reserve team plus a large number of other MSers all won 100% of their games, which would imply no one on court 3 and presumably 1 ever played another MSer who also won 100%. So that'd mean they determined the team by how much they beat up the court 10 guys?

Kirihara clearly implies that there are plenty of MSers who won more games than the high schoolers in the top 20. Yukimura was #20 on that list, and it's unfathomable there would be 19 guys with an equal or higher winning % than he does. Obviously, the list wasn't based on just winning %, but the fact that MSers have higher winning % implies they've improved significantly by then. Otherwise they'd still have a lower winning % than court 3 and there wouldn't be any dispute on why court 3 guys consist most of that list (not counting the other court 1 guys that we never see).
 

-Ken-

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Considering after seeing Fuwa, Yuki doesn't need to be winning to inflict Yips anymore. So its assumption.
It's assumption to assume Yips cannot kick in.
That's what you get for looking at things with only context that Fayte cut. I mention that it's only in PoT for Yips/Tezuka comment.

Also, I mention that if Fuji last 5 game. Then it would be the same. I already take into consideration the long game.

It's what happen when you only look at things that was crop out.

@Phanton. That's why I say the same...? If it's the same, then it could happen. I saw Kaoz calculation. But the MS could have been practicing with MS (and that's why their win % is hurt) and only lower court. While Court 3 have lucky draw.
 
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Phantron

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They played 5 games a day for 10 days to determine the final ranking. Given anyone below court 6 is almost certainly autowin for anyone that matters, the only way MSers can have a higher winning % without playing court 3 guys is if they never played Irie/Tokugawa/Oni while court 3 played against those 3 guys the whole time. It's possible but I don't see why there would be such a weird schedule. You've 50 games so it can't be just a fluke.
 

-Ken-

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They played 5 games a day for 10 days to determine the final ranking. Given anyone below court 6 is almost certainly autowin for anyone that matters, the only way MSers can have a higher winning % without playing court 3 guys is if they never played Irie/Tokugawa/Oni while court 3 played against those 3 guys the whole time. It's possible but I don't see why there would be such a weird schedule. You've 50 games so it can't be just a fluke.
Well, even if it's not perfect win. If 3rd court play MS and lose, or if MS play each other and lose. That lose counts as the same. No matter that the % is, as long the % is close enough with each other, I can see the reasoning of why the coach would want to give HS a chance to challenge 1st stringer more. This is even if HS % is, say, 5% lower than MS.
 

Phantron

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Well, even if it's not perfect win. If 3rd court play MS and lose, or if MS play each other and lose. That lose counts as the same. No matter that the % is, as long the % is close enough with each other, I can see the reasoning of why the coach would want to give HS a chance to challenge 1st stringer more. This is even if HS % is, say, 5% lower than MS.
I have no problem with the decision to play court 3 over MSers but I really don't see the important members of the winner's bracket losing to court 3 more than half of the time given they've a higher winning % by the time the G20 returned. I can see say a MSer have 40-10 and they give the court 3 guy who has a 38-12 record for better matchup or whatever, but the guy with 40-10 presumably didn't just get an improbably lucky break on his schedule compared to the 38-12 guy.
 

Kaoz

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Taira Yoshiyuki/Momoshiro Takeshi: 4 votes
Tachibana Kippei/Chitose Senri: 6 votes

Winner: Tachibana Kippei/Chitose Senri
 
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