[Finals - Team 3 vs Team 12 Singles 1] Sanada vs Fuji

[Kaoz]

Singles 1	Sanada Gen'ichirou	Fuji Shuusuke
Title	Emperor	Prodigy
School	Rikkai Dai Fuzoku 3rd Year	Seishun Gakuen 3rd Year
Height	180 cm	167 cm
Weight	68 kg	53 kg
Dominant Hand	Right	Right
Playstyle	All Rounder	Technical Counter Puncher
Techniques	FuuRinKaInZanRai Black Aura	Houou Gaeshi Kirin Otoshi Hakuryuu Kagero Zutsumi Hecatoncheires no Monban Hoshi Hanabi Closed Eyes

Serve order: Fuji -> Sanada


This round ends on Thursday, October 18th 8 PM GMT.

Cast your vote and discuss (logically) why you voted for who you voted for. Have fun, but keep it clean!​

 

[LetalHawk]

SANADA, completely. No counter will work on him, FuurinKaInZanRai will blow Fuji, it's sad but that's how it is. 6-0 for Sanada.

 

[FrostyMouse]

Even if Fuu and Ka were stopped by Heca, and I'm not exactly convinced that they are, Rai's not going to be. I think that there's a possibility Fuji could return Rai with CE and the frame return Echizen convinced him to use against Ka after his gut had broken, but I'm not very convinced. At long last, even if everything else is somehow returned by Fuji (which is quite, quite doubtful), there's still BA.

It's just a bagel for Sanada.

 

[Ninomiya]

@Frosty,
Fuji will shit on Ka. Kirin Otoshi remember.

However Sanada's at that level where you can read Otoshi like Shiraishi!Niou did that won't stop Sanada's onslaught that always begins from the first point.
Fuji is overwhelmed.

And since apparently we no longer use plot so we suddenly can't add in possible improvement despite the rules, then Fuji is dead.

Usually, I would agree with you, but Sanada really needs a stepping stone (at least 1) just to show how much he has improved and how powerful BA really is. Personally, I'd prefer if that guy is Yukimura (in case you didn't notice, I don't like Yukimura lol).

And about Fuji... He'll probably lose in the finals (AGAIN), but I'll fight for him lol

Just because Sanada has to show BA doesn't mean he needs a specific stepping stone.
He just needs an opponent who is strong.
Doubt it will be Oni, since he and Oni have never interacted.

Nothing specific like Akutsu, Kintaro and Momoshiro who have Oni as their stepping stone.
Or Ryoma who has Tokugawa, Ryoga and I reckon Byoudouin.

Since Sanada is from Rikkai, a school where every member was somebody else's stepping stone, it won't be much of a stepping stone.

Regardless of whether you like Yuki, I don't see why MSers will be facing each other anytime soon. Let alone Yuki and Sanada again.
Konomi doesn't repeat Singles encounters we has already drawn for us.

Personally I just want to see what BA does for Sanada. I want it to be against Ryoga but Tanegashima is hinted now anyway.

 

[LetalHawk]

Nah, Sanada with Rai is more than enough to destroy Fuji.

 

[Fuji Shusuke]

Yeah, Fuji can face FuuRinKaZan evenly with the Triple Counters.
Rai... Fourth Counter anyone?
Rin > Fifth Counter however like with Tezuka Phantom, the spin isn't completely removed so probably a cord ball
Sixth Counter... idk

Black Aura... well he did get shit on by Tezuka's TMnK.

Sanada wins 6-0/1
Depending on success rate of Hoshi Hanabi.

 

[TheShiraishi]

Yeah, Fuji can face FuuRinKaZan evenly with the Triple Counters. Rai... Fourth Counter anyone? Black Aura... well he did get shit on by Tezuka's TMnK

Sanada wins 6-0

Fuji, we'll just wait for the 5th Counter Upgrade that makes it impossible for the ball to pass the net

 

[ashore]

this is fuji's true test! if he wants to prove he can defeat tezuka .. then he must face the man who almost arguably was at equal standing in pot1 with tezuka.. btw fuji say hello to black aura.

 

[Phantron]

Kirin Otoshi is going to be useless against Sanada because it got stopped by teleport (against Hirkoba) and Sanada is way faster than any teleport speed the Higa guys have, so yeah he might return Ka with Kirin Otoshi but then Sanada will just teleport back there and hit it past him. He might not even need to use Rai, just Fu speed could be sufficient though Rai, if only used for the speed component, doesn't seem too bad (in the Tezuka game, Sanada used Rai speed + Rin return versus Phantom and easily outlasted Tezuka, suggesting as long as you don't hit the ball with Rai the damage on yourself is significantly reduced).

Even the cloned Tezuka can return the 5th counter cleanly, suggesting that 5th counter is not a strong tech compared to what the real Tezuka can do, and of course Rin can shut down Phantom from the real Tezuka. Unless Sanada had another bout of "I FORGOT I CAN USE RIN" it's pretty trivial for him to deal with any of Fuji's techs, though I can see Sanada going back to his "Emperor" tennis style because he obviously sees Fuji as inferior to him, and in that case some of Fuji's techs could potentially score points off Sanada. But as soon as Sanada remembers he has Rin, it's pretty much instant game over.

 

[ashore]

Fuji, prepare for 1 sided match with sanada pretty much winning, I predict fuji will evolve making 1 new counter, but then sanada uses black aura, and fuji loses, Sanada wins 6-0.

mada mada dane fuji kun .. ( you still hve lots more to work on)

 

[Phantron]

It's not going to be a 6-0 game because any of Fuji's random counters are more than enough to get a game or two off Sanada until he suddenly remembers that he has the supreme counter tech move. I can see Sanada just going "MUST SMASH COUNTER WITH RAI" and drop a few games. I can even see him pulling the same thing Shiraishi did, slowly figuring out how to use Rai to get the ball over the net even though he's capable of hitting the ball cleanly over the net anytime with Rin. I think it'll go Sanada 7-5, it'd be 5-4 Fuji and then the sense of urgency will kick in and Sanada will actually use his anti-Fuji moves and win easy. Again Sanada is obsessed with smashing people with Rai/Ka, even though they're not always the best thing to do, so that gives Fuji at least a chance to get a few games quite easily.

---------- Post added at 12:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 AM ----------

Here's how I see the game goes:

Fuji serves with invisible serve
Sanada hits it back with Ka like it's nothing.

Fuji use closed eyes and hit cord ball
Sanada catches up easily with Fu, hits a cord ball back on purpose

Fuji use 6th counter
Inui: "Nobody can possibly return that shot unless they can somehow get outside of the court instantly!"
Sanada: "Did someone say teleport?" (Returns with Rai, blows up Fuji's racket).

Fuji tries 1st counter
Sanada returns with Rai

Fuji tries 2nd counter
Sanada returns with Rai

Fuji tries 3rd counter
Sanada returns with Rai

Sanada 1-0

Sanada serves
Fuji returns with 4th counter
It has no effect because Sanada doesn't put spin on balls to begin with

Sanada serves
Fuji returns with 5th counter
Sanada uses Rai and hits the ball into the net
Yukimura: "You should use Rin here Sanada."
Sanada: "RAI CRUSH!"

Repeat the above 3 times

Sanada 1-1

Fuji serves
Sanada return winner with Rai
Repeat 4 times
Sanada 2-1

Repeat until 4-4

Fuji decides to get serious and invokes the power of the genius and wins his serve despite having no possible way to deal with Rai (5th counter cannot be put on serve).

Fuji 5-4

Sanada is in danger of blowing out his knee and desperation looms.
Sanada remembers Rin counters all tech moves.
Sanada wins 7-5.

 

[-Ken-]

It's not going to be a 6-0 game because any of Fuji's random counters are more than enough to get a game or two off Sanada until he suddenly remembers that he has the supreme counter tech move. I can see Sanada just going "MUST SMASH COUNTER WITH RAI" and drop a few games. I can even see him pulling the same thing Shiraishi did, slowly figuring out how to use Rai to get the ball over the net even though he's capable of hitting the ball cleanly over the net anytime with Rin. I think it'll go Sanada 7-5, it'd be 5-4 Fuji and then the sense of urgency will kick in and Sanada will actually use his anti-Fuji moves and win easy. Again Sanada is obsessed with smashing people with Rai/Ka, even though they're not always the best thing to do, so that gives Fuji at least a chance to get a few games quite easily.

---------- Post added at 12:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 AM ----------

Here's how I see the game goes:

Fuji serves with invisible serve
Sanada hits it back with Ka like it's nothing.

Fuji use closed eyes and hit cord ball
Sanada catches up easily with Fu, hits a cord ball back on purpose

Fuji use 6th counter
Inui: "Nobody can possibly return that shot unless they can somehow get outside of the court instantly!"
Sanada: "Did someone say teleport?" (Returns with Rai, blows up Fuji's racket).

Fuji tries 1st counter
Sanada returns with Rai

Fuji tries 2nd counter
Sanada returns with Rai

Fuji tries 3rd counter
Sanada returns with Rai

Sanada 1-0

Sanada serves
Fuji returns with 4th counter
It has no effect because Sanada doesn't put spin on balls to begin with

Sanada serves
Fuji returns with 5th counter
Sanada uses Rai and hits the ball into the net
Yukimura: "You should use Rin here Sanada."
Sanada: "RAI CRUSH!"

Repeat the above 3 times

Sanada 1-1

Fuji serves
Sanada return winner with Rai
Repeat 4 times
Sanada 2-1

Repeat until 4-4

Fuji decides to get serious and invokes the power of the genius and wins his serve despite having no possible way to deal with Rai (5th counter cannot be put on serve).

Fuji 5-4

Sanada is in danger of blowing out his knee and desperation looms.
Sanada remembers Rin counters all tech moves.
Sanada wins 7-5.

If Fuji CAN win 5 games, Sanada will lose because his knee will give out at that point, and at that point, he's just plain weak. I don't think Fuji CAN win 5 games though. 2, or 3, max.

 

[Fayte]

@Frosty,
Fuji will shit on Ka. Kirin Otoshi remember.

Here is my argument as to why Fuji would still be unable to use Kirin Otoshi against Ka:

Premise #1 - Ka is a ground smash that makes it a prerequisite for Fuji's Otoshi counters. This is shown when Fuji uses Higuma Otoshi against SoSA Kirihara's Ka.
Premise #2 - Kirihara is much weaker than Sanada, thus he can not "handle that shot" with a proper execution.
Premise #3 - Fuji has never returned a smash as powerful as a Ka (from Sanada).
Premise #4 - Both Tachibana and Shiraishi were strong enough to smash Fuji's racquet away when Fuji tried to Higuma Otoshi.
Premise #5 - Sanada is physically stronger than Kirihara, Tachibana, and Shiraishi.
Premise #6 - Sanada improved.
Premise #7 - Sanada is still too strong for Fuji to return his ground smash, even with Kirin Otoshi.

 

[ashore]

It's not going to be a 6-0 game because any of Fuji's random counters are more than enough to get a game or two off Sanada until he suddenly remembers that he has the supreme counter tech move. I can see Sanada just going "MUST SMASH COUNTER WITH RAI" and drop a few games. I can even see him pulling the same thing Shiraishi did, slowly figuring out how to use Rai to get the ball over the net even though he's capable of hitting the ball cleanly over the net anytime with Rin. I think it'll go Sanada 7-5, it'd be 5-4 Fuji and then the sense of urgency will kick in and Sanada will actually use his anti-Fuji moves and win easy. Again Sanada is obsessed with smashing people with Rai/Ka, even though they're not always the best thing to do, so that gives Fuji at least a chance to get a few games quite easily.



---------- Post added at 12:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 AM ----------

Here's how I see the game goes:

Fuji serves with invisible serve
Sanada hits it back with Ka like it's nothing.

Fuji use closed eyes and hit cord ball
Sanada catches up easily with Fu, hits a cord ball back on purpose

Fuji use 6th counter
Inui: "Nobody can possibly return that shot unless they can somehow get outside of the court instantly!"
Sanada: "Did someone say teleport?" (Returns with Rai, blows up Fuji's racket).

Fuji tries 1st counter
Sanada returns with Rai

Fuji tries 2nd counter
Sanada returns with Rai

Fuji tries 3rd counter
Sanada returns with Rai

Sanada 1-0

Sanada serves
Fuji returns with 4th counter
It has no effect because Sanada doesn't put spin on balls to begin with

Sanada serves
Fuji returns with 5th counter
Sanada uses Rai and hits the ball into the net
Yukimura: "You should use Rin here Sanada."
Sanada: "RAI CRUSH!"

Repeat the above 3 times

Sanada 1-1

Fuji serves
Sanada return winner with Rai
Repeat 4 times
Sanada 2-1

Repeat until 4-4

Fuji decides to get serious and invokes the power of the genius and wins his serve despite having no possible way to deal with Rai (5th counter cannot be put on serve).

Fuji 5-4

Sanada is in danger of blowing out his knee and desperation looms.
Sanada remembers Rin counters all tech moves.
Sanada wins 7-5.

Sanada doesn't need to use rai on all of fuji's counters. and besides he's already seen them. wont take long to defeat without rai. oh yea hello black aura..?

 

[Fuji Shusuke]

If Fuji receives my evolved 4th, 5th and 6th counter ideas, then Sanada would be crushed XD

 

[LetalHawk]

If Fuji receives my evolved 4th, 5th and 6th counter ideas, then Sanada would be crushed XD

I don't think so, Sanada's Ka will blow Fuji, Kirin Otoshi won't work. Maybe he could return Fuu and Rin but Ka, Zan and Rai are just too much for him.

Fuji serves with invisible serve, Sanada returns it, Fuji uses Houou Gaeshi, Sanada hits Rai and gets the point. Same thing again, Fuji can't return it. Fuji volleys the ball but Sanada hits a lob, Fuji barely returns it, he hits Ka and bam point.

1-0 for Sanada. Then he serves, gets an ace, activates BA because he doesn't want to waste any time. Fuji gets 6-0´d and is unable to breathe.

Fuji won't get any games from Sanada. Houhou gaeshi is useless, Sanada can return it with Fuu, Hakuryuu can be returned with Rai, Ka will break Fuji's racket when trying to do Kirin Otoshi, Rin can counter 5th counter, BA just owns Fuji. Sanada, like Tezuka, has practically a counter for everything Fuji has.

 

[Fuji Shusuke]

The thing about my 5th counter idea is that you can't return it with anything.

Instead of adding super backspin onto the ball, my idea adds a super topspin onto the ball. Then Fuji deliberately hits the net with it, and due to the topspin it rolls up the net, over to the other side then rolls down the net and onto the opponent's side without a bounce. How the fk can Sanada beat that? The instant you try to hit it, you've already fouled. This is the ultimate hax drop shot, and is also an absolute technique. It beats Zero Shiki Drop XD

 

[ashore]

good luck communicating that to the real fuji

 

[Ninomiya]

Here is my argument as to why Fuji would still be unable to use Kirin Otoshi against Ka:

Premise #1 - Ka is a ground smash that makes it a prerequisite for Fuji's Otoshi counters. This is shown when Fuji uses Higuma Otoshi against SoSA Kirihara's Ka.
Premise #2 - Kirihara is much weaker than Sanada, thus he can not "handle that shot" with a proper execution.
Premise #3 - Fuji has never returned a smash as powerful as a Ka (from Sanada).
Premise #4 - Both Tachibana and Shiraishi were strong enough to smash Fuji's racquet away when Fuji tried to Higuma Otoshi.
Premise #5 - Sanada is physically stronger than Kirihara, Tachibana, and Shiraishi.
Premise #6 - Sanada improved.
Premise #7 - Sanada is still too strong for Fuji to return his ground smash, even with Kirin Otoshi.

Why should Sanada's one arm overpower Fuji's two armed Kirin Otoshi??
Fuji isn't even hitting. He is just placing the racket above his head.
Kirin isn't Higuma remember.
Kirin Otoshi > Ka.

It's not like it's been said since Nationals ''Sanada got physically stronger'' anyway.

---------- Post added at 09:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 AM ----------

Sanada catches up easily with Fu, hits a cord ball back on purpose

Fuji use 6th counter
Inui: "Nobody can possibly return that shot unless they can somehow get outside of the court instantly!"
Sanada: "Did someone say teleport?" (Returns with Rai, blows up Fuji's racket).

You're a Sanada-ist. To assume 6th Counter which ended PoT as perhaps the most powerful shot in the series, can be effortlessly returned with Rai.
When the ball cannot be seen, it doesn't necessarily HAVE to land on the baseline,
After the bounce it goes straight into the stands,
It's invisible until it crash lands,

Come on. Sanada is not going to shit on 6th Counter. If he returns it, it will take a while.

---------- Post added at 09:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 AM ----------

Sanada is in danger of blowing out his knee and desperation looms.
Sanada remembers Rin counters all tech moves.
Sanada wins 7-5.

It's not like Sanada is stupid. He doesn't forget. You have misunderstood.
Yuki didn't remind him.

Sanada even shouts FuuRinKaZan. He doesn't like hitting Rin since it means he cannot ''Crush'' his opponent.
Yukimura said use your other abilities so we can win this comfortably.
Sanada wanted it to be that he destroyed Tezuka and left him in despair by head-on breaking his moves apart.

---------- Post added at 09:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 AM ----------

So what...

Does plot MAGICALLY come back into this dead argument then?
Like how improvement suddenly vanished specifically for certain matches it's gonna come back here.
BS.

Either way this is as good as over. Fuji is hopeless right now.
There are like 6-7 MSers... who will defeat Fuji right now.

This is pointless. Sanada has won.
Any problems people have past had in arguments should go to the Tier Discussion. Since I've seen some far-fetched stuff in this tournament.

 

[Phantron]

Most of Fuji's counters are hard to deal with because they got crazy trajectory except crazy trajectory is useless against someone who can teleport. When Fuji played against Hirakoba it's pointed out that using the 2nd counter to return a smash is useless if your opponent can simply teleport back to the baseline, and indeed they say the return leaves Fuji vulnerable because he can't immediately switch to a normal stance after using a counter.

Using Shiraishi versus Fuji game you can also infer the stronger the opponent is the less they're affected at all by the 2nd counter line. When Shiraishi did a normal smash it knocked away Fuji's racket, and Fuji's return was feeble, giving Shiraishi plenty of time to do another move. While Fuji has improved, Shiraishi is certainly much weaker than Sanada in terms of physical strength. It's not even clear if Fuji can overcome Ka (can play out exactly like the game against Shiraishi) but even if he can return it cleanly, Sanada can simply use Rai and Fuji cannot return that because it's said he can't go from a counter to a normal move instantly, while Rai is of course instant.

The only move Fuji has that'd be at all a threat to Sanada would be the 5th counter and that's only if:

1. Sanada can't magically hit through it, even though characters on his calibur can (Tezuka).
2. Sanada does not use Rin.

Fuji gets at least one game by invoking the power of the genius. That's what he does. He can get a few more games off Sanada if Sanada mysteriously chooses to try to overpower the 5th counter instead of just tech his way out of it (he can lob a ball and have it land precisely on the baseline 100% of the time, so it's not like he can't do tech shots if he wanted to).