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Discussion Flaws in characters' development and personalties of fairy tail

Discussion in 'Fairy Tail' started by Gaggen, Feb 27, 2017.

?

Who is the most overrated character in fairy tail among protagonists???

The results of this poll are hidden until it is manually edited by the user or site admin.
Poll closed May 6, 2017.
  1. Natsu Dragneel including END

  2. Gray Fullbuster

  3. Erza Scarlet

  4. Laxus Dreyar

  5. Wendy Marvell

  6. Happy

  7. Carla

  8. Gajeel

  9. Rogue

  10. Sting

  11. Jellal (earthland)

  12. Gildarts Clive

  13. Cana

  14. Makaroff Dreyar

  15. Lucy Heartfilia

  16. Mirajane Strauss

  17. Panther Lily

  18. Mavis Vermillion

  19. Anna heartfilia

  20. igneel

  21. metallicana/weisslogia/skiadrum/grandeeney

Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Daniel9dsi

    Daniel9dsi Registered User

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    Quite a few complaints you got there. I guess it's time to play devil's advocate and explain why I disagree with every single one XD

    1. Pushing Gajeel down a mineshaft

    This is not even close to being the same thing that happened with Yukino. Natsu and Gajeel are friends and rivals, and the relationship between them is completely different than anything between the members of Sabertooth. Are we going to start comparing Natsu and Gray fighting each other all the time to Sting blasting a hole in Jiemma's chest? Of course not, because they're completely different. There is no animosity or ill intent behind Natsu's actions. The same can't be said for Sabertooth.

    2. Sacrificing himself against Zeref

    Yes, this was a moment of hypocrisy for him but in his defense he was caught up in the moment and wasn't thinking clearly. Once Happy stopped him from attacking Zeref it was obvious that Natsu came back to his senses and remembered what he was doing was wrong. Just look at how he smiles after Happy tells him he doesn't want to lose him. Again, him trying to sacrifice himself in the first place was definitely contradictory to what he believes in, but considering the circumstances it can hardly be considered an indictment against his character.

    3. Abandoning Lucy

    The key difference here between what Natsu did and what Gray did is that Natsu left her a note detailing exactly what he was doing, why he was doing it, and when he would be back. Lucy may not have had a say in the matter but at least she knew what was going on. The same can't be said about Gray, however, who did NOT let her know what he was doing, why he was doing it, and when he would be back. Now, obviously this isn't Gray's fault but the two situations definitely aren't the same and they shouldn't be treated as such. Not only that, but with regards to Natsu leaving in the first place, you have to take into account the fact that Natsu just lost Igneel, his only family and the person he's been searching for his entire life. He probably felt like he needed to get away from everything for a bit, to take some time by himself and figure things out.


    So yea, if you only look at the surface these criticisms seem valid, but IMO they simply don't hold up against the barest amount of scrutiny :P
     
  2. Katen

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    Perfectly agreed, obviously other characters spam nakama speeches, they simply don't do it in the same extent as Natsu does. Natsu is pretty much a ruined character with no redeeming factors anymore. That is pretty much a fact.

    Asspull powerups and victories (now a recent asspull powerup as in dragon king mode/end), receives plenty of forced relevancy toward matters that don't concern him, and a dull personality attached to the character. So yea, that makes him very much dis-likeable.

    Sadly I don't have much time to expand on this, and counter some others points in this thread from a page ago, but will do so soon/will get back to. For now my post was strictly directed at Natsu.
     
  3. Jay

    Jay Registered User

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    I agree with what you've said, but also the other people are right - the amount of Nakama power and Asspulls in Fairy Tail is way too much. Especially from Natsu and Erza.
     
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  4. Brandish

    Brandish is just fine today

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    Natsu's not had any CD really, but he's a good guy with great energy. He's pretty likable in that regard.

    The nakama speeches get tiresome, as are the power-ups, but I don't hold them completely against Natsu. I think the blame for those should be elsewhere, but whatever it always feels better to vent at a particularly party (like when you're team loses in sports, blame the referee).
     
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  5. Crescent_jinxgrace

    Crescent_jinxgrace Registered User

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    I find Gildarts to be a very likeable character with minimal flaws but overall he's overrated to me because he barely does anything and has little relevance to the story.

    And before you say "the old father figure like kenshin's master is never around cuz he would solo most of villains."

    Well we have an over abundant number of father/teaching figures who are never around/or dead.

    Makarov being the first for all the guild. Then Igneel (and Gildarts isn't beating the coolness factor of a Dragon king) To now, Zeref as the new father/older brother figure to Natsu. We even have a face to match with Natsu's real father now.

    Gray had Ur and Silver. Erza had Grandpa Rob and Makarov who she has a closer bond to.

    The biggest flaw with his character itself..... I have to say it's with his personality is how he went from loving all the kids to basically only having connections to Natsu and Cana to only having a role with Cana who is a support character herself..

    He seemed like he enjoyed the Strausses - Mira, Lisanna, Elfman - but he has had literally has no interactions with them. Plus he went from being sad he could not ship Nali anymore to not even reacting when Lisanna returns alive......

    His second character flaw is that he's not unique in what he does.

    His main contributions to this story: Gildarts vs Natsu, gildy vs Bluenote, Gildarts and cana vs August could have been filled by Makarov, Laxus, Mystogan (if we kept him around), Warrod, Jellal, Jura. Any strong male character who had a connection to main cast. August could have just as easily looked up to see Bisca/Alzacks protecting Asuka before seeing Mavis to remind him of parental love. Gildarts and Cana was really unnecessarily redundant of the Bluenote battle.

    It's just Dgrayman has Cross and one piece has Shanks. Mashima was like...... "Going to have one of those too!!!!!"

    That's why I hate that people lay into Jellal, Natsu, Erza. At least they are identifiable. Bad or good you can easily pinpoint their flaws and good Points.

    Even if you say Natsu is generic shonen. At least he's Natsu.

    Tl;dr Gildarts is Shanks 2.0 and is a tertiary father figure with little to do outside of being a plot device for Cana and to have a subpar fights.

    #letshavearealdiscussion

    Added: Also I find it funny that Pantherlily has literally no votes on this overrated list. Is he the only character agreed to be a good character by the fandom??? Lmao.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  6. EmberSpirit

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    Erza's flaw is that she is Erza.
    Everything about Natsu has been said already. He is a shitty take on every mainstream shonen mc.
    I think I made what I think of Gildart's character pretty clear. Boring powers, boring fights, cliche character that could only appeal to people who think he is "hurr durr badass"
    August... The wise old mage who claimed to have knowledge and mastery over every magic was lying all along.
    Mavis's intelligence is supposed to be canon, but Mashima himself is not particularly intelligent so he can't do more than failing to deliver. Also it feels like she can pull something worse than Erza can with that plot device of magic she has.
    Juvia can't be defined as a character. She is just there for Gray.
     
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  7. Axiomus

    Axiomus Mangahelper

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    I agree with much of what @Daniel9dsi had to say regarding Natsu.

    Go Kart: Gajeel
    Pushing Gajeel into a cart isn't really comparable than forcing Yukino to strip naked and then excommunicating her from the guild, which is basically her family. Motion sickness might be debilitating, but Natsu knows that Gajeel can get over it. It's silly to think Natsu was actually putting Gajeel in danger. No amount of motion sickness is going to be more dangerous than actually getting into a fight. I suspect the real reason Natsu is being criticized for this is because people didn't like how he sidelined Gajeel from the participating in the fight. It amounts to salt.

    Suicide by Zeref
    There's an argument to be made that Natsu didn't really believe that Zeref was telling him the truth. He was skeptical the entire time of Zeref's explanation. It was also in the heat of the moment, and it probably wasn't until Natsu cooled down that he started to digest what Zeref said to him. I honestly don't think Natsu had any intention of dying. He doesn't have any intention of dying now that he's convinced Zeref is telling the truth. I doubt he seriously thought he was going to die back when he didn't fully believe what Zeref was saying.
    [​IMG]

    Leaving Lucy
    First of all, it's not like Natsu left for no reason. He just saw Igneel get killed by Acnologia, and he knows that in Rogue's future Acnologia takes over the world. Natsu even tells us that his reason to go on the training trip is to get stronger so that he can protect everyone. Could he really have handled parting with Lucy in a better fashion? Lucy chased after him when she found out he was going to leave. Even if he told her in person, she would most likely still have tried to stop him. She would still be upset when he ultimately decides to leave. I don't want to criticize Gray either, but there's a few reasons that set his situation apart from Natsu's. Juvia didn't really know what was going on with Gray becoming a demon. For all she knows, he could have been possessed or worse. She didn't know when or if Gray was going to come back. You might think that Natsu leaving a note wasn't enough, but at least telling Juvia that he was in no danger would have put her mind at ease. In Lucy's case, she didn't have to worry about Natsu being alright or not. She was just upset because she was going to be lonely for a year.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
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  8. Raven

    Raven Registered User

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    Just want to add this > He didn't plan on dying against Zeref because he had things to do. Zeref dropped the bomb on him so he wasn't really in the right mind.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Brandish

    Brandish is just fine today

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    Yea, lol.

    Pushing Gajeel into a carriage so he can take on Sting and Rogue by himself is nowhere near on the same level as Yukino being expelled. Not to mention the plot with the dragon graveyard that Gajeel happened upon... a gag moment it was.

    And the Zeref suicide thing... Natsu was having an identity crisis of sorts even later in the arc when we were in his heart. Barely coming to terms with the truth about himself. If some lunatic you knew as the worst criminal in the world said to you that you're brothers, would it be stupid of you not to believe him 100%? :lmao
     
  10. Emperor Spriggan

    Emperor Spriggan Registered User

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    But Zeref already showed him that he was E.N.D. By stabbing the Book the moment he told Natsu he was E.N.D and Natsu also feeling the same pain, that already kills all of Natsu's existing doubts.
    He has no reason not to believe anything else from that point on.
     
  11. Axiomus

    Axiomus Mangahelper

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    The part Natsu says he doesn't believe Zeref was after book had been poked. For all Natsu knows, it could have been some sort of trick with wierd magic. Something like the doll magic that Kain Hikaru uses.
     
  12. Gaggen

    Gaggen Banned

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    Here is how I see things....

    sacrificing himself to zeref
    it seems that our poor dragon slayer thought he can take on zeref without sacrificing himself. Boy that's quite an underestimation if you ask me. zeref proved to him that he was end but natsu thought it was some other magic??? that's ridiculous since he saw mard geer was wiped out by his own book infront of his very own eyes. there is no reason for him not to believe zeref words unless he is brainless. and if he still don't believe zeref, he could have ask zeref how did he know his name was natsu since it was their first encounter in tenroujima...

    gajeel
    what happen to natsu so called family thingy?? I thought everyone in fairy tail was his friends. plus the tournament host already mentioned NATSU AND GAJEEL TOGETHER to fight sting and rogue. he could do it with gray against mard geer but couldn't do it with gajeel is really really hurting
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2017
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  13. M3J

    M3J MH Senpai

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    Haven't people in the first arc heard of Natsu? It's not that hard when Natsu's been in the news many times for causing wanton acts of destruction, and Natsu's made a name for himself beating up bad guys and in the GMG. Plus, his infamy could have spread from guild to guild. Zeref is an enemy, for all Natsu knew Zeref was trying to rattle his mind and spirit.

    Mard Geer is on another level to Sting and Rogue. Note how Natsu and Gray were struggling while Natsu thought/knew he could beat Sting and Rogue alone. All Natsu did was push Gajeel into a carriage and push him, Gajeel wasn't in any danger as far as Natsu or we knew. Y'all acting as if Natsu hit Gajeel or tried to send him to his death. Besides, Natsu and Gajeel's relationship is different from Natsu and Gray's.
     
  14. Gaggen

    Gaggen Banned

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    so zeref would hear of natsu for being the destroyer despite being in tenroujima for decades. I like that logic. not everybody knows natsu, purehito didn't know, phantom lord didn't know except gajeel, tartaros didn't know, erigor didn't know, oraceion seis didn't know, lyon didn't know and the list goes on. just because he has the name salamander doesn't mean everyone know him. only fodders outside the guild know him. I find it stupid for one not to believe zeref after his proved himself to him and mard geer was a perfect example. natsu was just being immature and finding an excuse to prevent himself from believing zeref. and one more question. didn't natsu ask himself why would zeref lie to him??? how would it profit him by lying??? simple as that...not to mention that igneels words to natsu regarding the book was strange. all these are enough for one to believe but of course his fans will say something else to defend his actions. I don't find natsu and gray's relationship to be different from his and gajeel's. they look the same. huh he cant take on mard geer that's strange, I thought nothing was impossible for him since he could take on a wizard saint by dragon force .... plus he said igneel gave him the responsibility to obtain the book back from mard geer
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
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  15. Axiomus

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    This is assuming Natsu payed attention to these details like Zeref mentioning his name or the burning of Mard's book, and that he made the connection. It's understandable why Natsu would be in denial over Zeref's reveal. If a parent reveals to their child that they are adopted, there's bound to be some denial in the heat of the moment. It's not like Natsu is going to rack his memory for details that happened over a year ago to validate Zeref's story in the middle of their fight.

    Sure maybe once he had time to cool down and think about it, what Zeref was saying might have clicked. But at that moment? His exact words right before he charged at Zeref were "You expect me to believe that load of crap?" in the official translations. I think it's pretty clear that Natsu didn't believe in what Zeref is saying at that time. Obviously, If Natsu didn't really believe what Zeref was saying, then he didn't really believe he was going to end up killing himself. He's not being hypocritical by telling Gray to not think about dying. Even now, Natsu is still trying to defeat Zeref, and he still has no intentions of dying,
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
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  16. M3J

    M3J MH Senpai

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    Yes, given news can spread to places. Did Natsu even know where Zeref was? Zeref met Natsu once before, and as enemies. Why would Natsu have a reason to believe what Zeref was saying was the truth, especially when his yell implied that he didn't believe Zeref?

    Natsu wasn't likely paying attention, and he was trying to kill the enemy. Would you believe your enemy if he said beating him, which is the objective, will cause you to lose?And profit whom? Zeref? Zeref would profit because Natsu wouldn't try to kill Natsu if it meant his own death. Anyway, you can't compare what Gray was trying to do to what Natsu was gonna do, as Gray did it with full knowledge that he'd die, whereas Natsu wasn't sure and thought it wasn't true.

    Natsu and Gray have rivalry like Natsu and Gajeel, but they've also known each other for much longer and have trust in each other. They're more like brothers than Natsu and Gajeel. It may be strange, but the manga showed us those two working together to beat Mard, who unlike Sting and Rogue was a dangerous enemy to FT and the townspeople.
     
  17. Crescent_jinxgrace

    Crescent_jinxgrace Registered User

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    This is really long and yes..... am going through each character on this list.

    Already did Gildarts. Now it's Mavis. Going to cry when I have to write about my baby Lucy's flaws. But will be strong!!!

    This wall rant is long so going to spoil so won't hog the thread. You'll probably forget most of my points by the second topic lmao.

    Tenrou
    1. Mavis was introduced as a possessed tombstone who gave Cana, remorseful over her betrayal of Lucy and her wish to tell Gildarts the truth, fairy glitter.

    Which lead Cana to use glitter on Bluenote. Who was looking for the exact spell. And if Gildarts hadn't shown up......... Cana would have been tortured to have that spell extracted from her.

    But at that point Mavis wasn't hyped to be a tactician. Nor was she planned to be such a major figure. Or even a character.....

    2. Mavis's time to shine was GMG....

    BUT....

    A. HER strategy was beaten by Minerva. Sabertooth would have won if Sting hadn't given up.

    :coolstory

    B. SHE couldn't figure out what Ivan wanted. Even tho they had Gajeel as a double agent for Ivan pre-time skip. Plus Mavis knew why Ivan had been killed out. He even search the
    guildhall and tenrou island by his own words. She didn't not think that was a clue?

    :dumpster

    C. MAVIS failed to realize the royal family was plotting something. Even tho it was obvious that the games were somewhat rigged. You can't tell me she could sense and track Obra's puppet to Zeref yet be clueless about the royal family. Especially when Jellal's groups whole purpose was to find the energy connected to Zeref.

    [​IMG]


    D. Mavis also seemed to ignore the implications of Rogue's possession as a third party interrupting the games. Saying she had never seen something like that...... And she had with Yuri and the spirit in the tenrou jade which is how she got cursed (saving him with law).

    If FT zero is to be believed......... or maybe she's just lying cuz she apparently has known Natsu=END this whole time but hasn't did anything about that.

    E. The last day of the games was asspulled city.
    --> Mavis didn't know to calculate Kagura's vendetta thus thought Erza would only have to fight Minerva. But luckily Erza is Erza. When your plan fails, throw Erza at them.

    -->And she told Gray that he was a bad match up for Rufus. but let him fight anyway..... cuz you know emotions. So his ice was better than Rufus or Lyons ice.

    --> Mavis forgot about Sting..... but was saved by plot.

    -->Did she have a plan for Jura? I know she set up for Laxus to fight Orga but what was her plan for Jura?

    ------->>>>>>The only match to fight according to plan was Gajeel and rogue's fight, but Gajeel actually walked away from that fight..... Clearly against her plan and then rogue got possessed. So plot dictated this win. Not Mavis.

    F. And really she had fairy tail sit back while letting the higher ranks beat up the fodders, which in theory was probably to keep fairy tail in peak condition. A good plan on the surface. But really it just lost fairy tail points. Cuz quadro puppy and blue Pegasus were both one shotable which included the points to be made of taking down the captains. And how the fights went down in the end was pretty much fairy tail brawling whoever they wanted to brawl.

    Mavis seems like the type of tactician that just throws people at opponents until she wins which is why it was stated that she won the war 100 years ago but had higher casualties than normal. Plus Makarov even mentioned it before dying about her plans would cause the deaths of his children.

    Alvarez arc specifically with Mashima not explaining her plans and also using her for comedy. It cheapens the hype around her "tactician" skills. Does not help she has a history of her plans failing to hype a situation.


    3. Fairy tail Zero
    -Mavis was quite good here. I actually loved her as a lead, but the story was all about Mavis being a hero. Not only that. The story was made with the thought of growing Mavis's character to hype the reveal of the Lumen Histoire in Tartaros and Mavis's upcoming role in Alvarez. Cuz without FT zero, her connection to Zeref, and FH. She would have had less relevancy thank Makarov.

    4. Alvarez :disappoint

    a. First she didn't want people to join the war......

    Uh????

    There are armies crossing the country. The navy landed in Hargeon. Hargeon...... all the residents/military were killed if this fandom noticed the bodies around Dimaria and Wharl. Which Mermaid Heel and Lamina scale could have been evacuating and preparing for a sea attack since there was apparently enough time to evacuated Magnolia. She could have warned other countries. We didn't like Bosco because of slave trade but did we want a whole country to be demolished.???

    Those deaths are on Mavis for not wanting to tell anyone. She even had calculated about when the first wave would arrive.

    B. Then she forgot about the slayers motions sickness. Everyone remembers this but to me this is the least problematic of her problems. And really this is blown out of proportion cuz freaking Happy, Carla, Wendy, Lily, Gajeel, or Natsu could have said "hmmmm...... maybe I don't want to land on an airship." :cookiefinger

    C. Sending Natsu, Gray, Wendy, Laxus, Erza and Juvia to south. All your heavy hitters in one place???? But I dunno.... Elfman/Lisanna = Erza so I dunno. Mavis may have had something for with this. Lyon is to the south but Gray can eat ice...... so wouldn't it be better to send an ice wizard to you know..... the winter/ice/cold??? Slayer advantage, Mavis???? Or did you forget that too? Not to mention sending one dragon slayer to the north and 3 dragon slayers to southern along with a devil slayer. Balance maybe?

    (Drooling at the prospect of Gray and Mira vs Larcade (a demon) and Bradman (the other one)) @Nemispelled

    Which would have left Gajeel, Cobra, Rogue and Sting free to slay Irene..... :ck

    Mira could asssifrd someone and let Yukino and Minerva handle those little girls. Or maybe CS. Since they were coming too.

    D. She agreed to let Natsu go attack Zeref... and she apparently knew Zeref had his book????

    E. She learned a way to beat Zeref by watching Jacob fight. :arf

    Then turned around an came up with a new plan recently? Or has she just improved her old plan? We don't know because we were never told.

    F. On top of that she, had an illusion that made Irene her bitch long before Wendy and Erza. I don't care what people say about Wendy and Erza vs Irene. Mavis beat a 400 year old dragon with a couple of fake illusions. What happen to Irene going to make Mavis pay? Why didn't she treat Mavis like Mira and ignore Erza?

    Suddenly Mavis gained telepathy and the ability to steal END's book from Zeref's nose. Plus she made a giant illusion of herself to give a speech to be like..... Brandish?????

    Only had Zera brought back to be able to hug naked. Not to mention. Nobody has given her clothes..... she's still wearing her illusion outfit.

    G. Had sex or got raped..... we still don't know.

    H. Had a son.

    I. Got captured by InVel's ce, Larcade magic, August's magic....... even tho she's a powerful immortal?? And had to rely on Gray beating InVel to get away. On sting vs Larcade.... on August's suicide.

    Is she even immortal? Mashima has been acting like she's not cursed anymore.

    J. Freaked out over all the spriggans magic like Makarov even though she should be aware of power levels even she doesn't understand them

    5. All the fairy spells are MAJOR plot devices

    -Fairy Law -> curses some people in the incomplete form and steals life from some but not forgets -.-

    -Fairy sphere -> caused the first time skip

    -Fairy glitter->works against inanimate objects (gmg lacrima and Fh lacrima) but not people (Bluenote and August)

    -fairy heart-> infinite magic...... infinite magic..... that just sounds like a plot device...... that everyone this arc is tying to get yet nobody has made much an effort.



    :snidely Come at me fandom

    Oh would like opinion of:
    @thatsvicchan
    @Emperor Spriggan
    @Stormsfury
    @Linali
    @Wanderer
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  18. Linali

    Linali Registered User

    英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member

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    That brings memories... Sad, sad memories... :emocat

    But I couldn't agree more with your post, nothing to add :super Well, maybe only going alone to the guild, when whole army of the enemy is looking for her - not the smartest move. Mavis doesn't deliver to her hype as "Fairy Tactician", not only with her long term strategies, but also with simple commands on the battlefield ("Use terrain to your adventage and watch your backs" :fail). I don't dislike her as a character, I just don't see this strategy genius she suppose to be. Although I must admit, that the beginning of 5th day of GMG looked really impressive :)
     
  19. Crescent_jinxgrace

    Crescent_jinxgrace Registered User

    英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member

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    Didn't think about going back to the
    Guild. Good call. I wish I hadn't thought of that!!

    "Use your terrain to your advantage." That is common logic. Hopefully with people that fight commonly at least.

    The art of war states "he that is his own master bring th terrain with him." (Doesn't really say that I am just full of fortune cookie quotes)

    You are right. The beginning of the gmg would have been great but the rest of the day was downhill.

    Actually back then I use to stick up for that day in the forums like on MAL telling people it wasn't that bad. But then I noticed a trend with Mavis tactics. Mashima specifically does the opposite of what she says. If Mavis says A...... you know B will happen if XYZ doesn't happen first. And that's how the game went. They looked so cool to...... what is happening? and chaos followed.

    Her character isn't bad either. Especially in Zero.

    As @Cat Sidhe26 and Emperor Spriggan mentioned she's kinda like
    Magi's Scheherazade.

    Although her and Titus's whole plot line of "I am you and you are me" was given to Irene/Erza. But baby August looked so much like baby Titus.
     
  20. M3J

    M3J MH Senpai

    神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike

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    I dislike her mainly because she should have been dead, not be "alive" but as a spirit, and asspull FT into surviving Acnologia. That was literally the worst, especially considering she was just a spirit. I mean, this isn't a horror movie, a spirit shouldn't be able to do anything. At least her helping FT cheat wasn't super duper asspull during GMG, although her still existing was.

    At least with Zeref, it's different. In a way.
     

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