Fantasy Gajeel vs Wall

[Seven777]

While I do believe Gajeel is on par with abse and LFD Natsu, FDKM and DF are very overkill and would stomp Gajeel.

I don't see Base Natsu beating Wahl who's an above average spriggan

FDKM may have been used, it may not have, we don't know and we don't need to know. Gajeel forced Natsu to use almost all his power to beat him, if Natsu could have ended that fight earlier or with more MP, he would have. So Gajeel is on par with Natsu. Using FDK attacks doesn't even cost that much MP and we don't actually know how much better it is than Dual Element abilities, for all we know the difference in power is minute.

I do, Natsu doesn't need to go FDKM to be stronger than the average spriggan, simply using FDK attacks in base is probably more efficient anyhow. Modes as a whole have run their course.

 

[Ramen]

FDKM may have been used, it may not have, we don't know and we don't need to know. Gajeel forced Natsu to use almost all his power to beat him, if Natsu could have ended that fight earlier or with more MP, he would have. So Gajeel is on par with Natsu. Using FDK attacks doesn't even cost that much MP and we don't actually know how much better it is than Dual Element abilities, for all we know the difference in power is minute.

I do, Natsu doesn't need to go FDKM to be stronger than the average spriggan, simply using FDK attacks in base is probably more efficient anyhow. Modes as a whole have run their course.

We know LFD was used. He also said he has to deal with Mira, Jellal and Laxus so why would he go all all out against Gajeel? We barely have seen LFD and more of FDKM and they clearly hit harder. He fought Gajeel and then fought Wraith/Makarov so he wasn't out of MP and wasn't even close since he used a FDKM Demo Fist. There's no way Gajeel is tanking purgatory or Demo Fist.

Natsu in his base isn't beating someone who's magic revolves around the others Weakness and a bunch of lasers. Not to mention Assault mode.

 

[GL_Nova]

FDKM may have been used, it may not have, we don't know and we don't need to know. Gajeel forced Natsu to use almost all his power to beat him, if Natsu could have ended that fight earlier or with more MP, he would have. So Gajeel is on par with Natsu. Using FDK attacks doesn't even cost that much MP and we don't actually know how much better it is than Dual Element abilities, for all we know the difference in power is minute.

I do, Natsu doesn't need to go FDKM to be stronger than the average spriggan, simply using FDK attacks in base is probably more efficient anyhow. Modes as a whole have run their course.

Run their course? No good sir. They are just reserved as final boss type boosts, those and Ace duels.

 

[Seven777]

Run their course? No good sir. They are just reserved as final boss type boosts, those and Ace duels.

Final bosses get new, one off modes that never get seen again. Except dragon force, sometimes

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 24, 2019 ---

We know LFD was used. He also said he has to deal with Mira, Jellal and Laxus so why would he go all all out against Gajeel? We barely have seen LFD and more of FDKM and they clearly hit harder. He fought Gajeel and then fought Wraith/Makarov so he wasn't out of MP and wasn't even close since he used a FDKM Demo Fist. There's no way Gajeel is tanking purgatory or Demo Fist.

Natsu in his base isn't beating someone who's magic revolves around the others Weakness and a bunch of lasers. Not to mention Assault mode.

Because theres no point holding back if you spend all your power anyway, the efficient thing to do would be to low-mid diff Gajeel with his best shit if he could have, but he couldn't so Gajeel is overall on par with Natsu, including his best shit. FDK hits harder, but we don't know if its by a lot. He fought Wraith after taking a ride through town on Levy's carriage, he probably recovered. Using Demo Fist doesn't cost very much magic.
On the contrary I would argue not only is Gajeel tanking Purgatory or Demo Fist, he could tank both in the same fight. Gajeel>Madmole by their performances.

Weakness, lasers and Assault Mode are pretty meh

 

[Axiomus]

Gajeel is weaker than Natsu because he pretty much lost that fight, and Natsu still had enough magic power to do everything he did to Makarov later on. That said, Gajeel did use up most of Natsu's magic power and it was a high difficulty fight. A weakened Natsu would still stomp Makarov, so if Gajeel is around 80% of Natsu he's still a beast.

What really matters here is that Gajeel did far better against Natsu than the Spriggans that Natsu fought, namely Jacob and Neinhart. If you believe that all Spriggans are equal, even when it comes to hand to hand, then Gajeel stomps. I don't. Jacob and Neinhart are chumps compared to someone like Wall when it comes to hand to hand. Gajeel should win somewhere around mid-to-high difficulty, depending on whether or not red lightning was similar enough to regular lightning to work as a weakness to Wall.

 

[Ramen]

Final bosses get new, one off modes that never get seen again. Except dragon force, sometimes

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 24, 2019 ---

Because theres no point holding back if you spend all your power anyway, the efficient thing to do would be to low-mid diff Gajeel with his best shit if he could have, but he couldn't so Gajeel is overall on par with Natsu, including his best shit. FDK hits harder, but we don't know if its by a lot. He fought Wraith after taking a ride through town on Levy's carriage, he probably recovered. Using Demo Fist doesn't cost very much magic.
On the contrary I would argue not only is Gajeel tanking Purgatory or Demo Fist, he could tank both in the same fight. Gajeel>Madmole by their performances.

Weakness, lasers and Assault Mode are pretty meh

At this point you're using a lot of "ifs'' for gajeel and clearly wanking him.

Natsu was clearly worn out before fighting Wraith and still had enough MP for the fight. We have to go off of what we know and we know that Natsu used LFD and thats it.

If you truly think that Gajeel can tank those hits against Natsu and be equal against FDKM thats on you. But weve clearly seen that is not the case.

Theres a reason we never see LFD dont you think??

Like I said, Natsu acknowledged that he had to fight others so he didnt want to use he's most powerful spells right off the gate.

Also during his fight, even though Levy intervened, Natsu got right back up to fight and Gajeel did nothing but scream for him to stop.

Regarding DF: If Natsu could obliterate FH Zerefs body with a Demo FIst, Gajeel wouldn't stand a chance.

 

[Seven777]

At this point you're using a lot of "ifs'' for gajeel and clearly wanking him.

Natsu was clearly worn out before fighting Wraith and still had enough MP for the fight. We have to go off of what we know and we know that Natsu used LFD and thats it.

If you truly think that Gajeel can tank those hits against Natsu and be equal against FDKM thats on you. But weve clearly seen that is not the case.

Theres a reason we never see LFD dont you think??

Like I said, Natsu acknowledged that he had to fight others so he didnt want to use he's most powerful spells right off the gate.

Also during his fight, even though Levy intervened, Natsu got right back up to fight and Gajeel did nothing but scream for him to stop.

Regarding DF: If Natsu could obliterate FH Zerefs body with a Demo FIst, Gajeel wouldn't stand a chance.

There is only a lot of ifs because you're using a lot of iffy points. My actual argument is very simple, Gajeel pushed Natsu to high diff so he's more or less Natsu tier.

Sure, we can go off of what we know. Natsu couldn't beat Gajeel without using up almost all his power, that's what we know. The modes he used, the attacks he used, they're all irrelevant because they're all unknown, what's known is that Gajeel was so powerful that Natsu was left bloodied and beaten by the end of that fight with barely any MP left, he was more trashed than after his fight with Jacob and more trashed than after his fight with Neinhart, Natsu's appearance alone tells us that much. A character that can do that to another character, on top of exhausting almost all their power is on the same level.

We don't see LFD anymore because FDK is Natsu's new thing, it's probably better but how much better is still up in the air. Given the fact that Dual Element modes are still so powerful that they can boost the likes of Sting to strong enough to beat Larcade, I'd say Dual Elements are still enormously powerful. In fact given how much more powerful Dual Elements made Sting, it probably is relatively close in power to FDKM.

DF Natsu is another story.

 

[Ramen]

There is only a lot of ifs because you're using a lot of iffy points. My actual argument is very simple, Gajeel pushed Natsu to high diff so he's more or less Natsu tier.

Sure, we can go off of what we know. Natsu couldn't beat Gajeel without using up almost all his power, that's what we know. The modes he used, the attacks he used, they're all irrelevant because they're all unknown, what's known is that Gajeel was so powerful that Natsu was left bloodied and beaten by the end of that fight with barely any MP left, he was more trashed than after his fight with Jacob and more trashed than after his fight with Neinhart, Natsu's appearance alone tells us that much. A character that can do that to another character, on top of exhausting almost all their power is on the same level.

We don't see LFD anymore because FDK is Natsu's new thing, it's probably better but how much better is still up in the air. Given the fact that Dual Element modes are still so powerful that they can boost the likes of Sting to strong enough to beat Larcade, I'd say Dual Elements are still enormously powerful. In fact given how much more powerful Dual Elements made Sting, it probably is relatively close in power to FDKM.

DF Natsu is another story.

I'm not disagreeing on Gajeel being Natsu tier. I'm just saying when FDKM and DF are in play, Natsu pulls far ahead of Gajeel.

You wanna quote the Sting fight? Sting was still losing to Larcade in his WSDM mode. He needed Kaguras gravity to even access his Shadow Mode so WSDM is still iffy.

By Feats and Performance FDKM has ISD beat by quite a bit.

 

[Seven777]

I'm not disagreeing on Gajeel being Natsu tier. I'm just saying when FDKM and DF are in play, Natsu pulls far ahead of Gajeel.

You wanna quote the Sting fight? Sting was still losing to Larcade in his WSDM mode. He needed Kaguras gravity to even access his Shadow Mode so WSDM is still iffy.

By Feats and Performance FDKM has ISD beat by quite a bit.

That's where I disagree. FDKM is just another power up, like ISDM. Is it stronger? Probably, but also probably not by that much. I know it seems like Dual Elements lost their relevancy in Alvarez, but that's just cause the main cast stopped using it. Sting actually showed us that they're still an incredibly powerful ability.

So what if Sting needed Kagura's help? Gajeel could enter shadow mode on his first try. Besides, we aren't talking about the utility of the mode are we? We are talking about the offensive power of it, because that's the only thing FDKM provides. Dual Element mode put Sting's offense from so weak he could barely damage Larcade, to so strong he could K.O him, that's an enormous jump in offensive power, probably on a similar level to FDKM.

What do you mean? FDKM's only feat is beating Jacob, that's not especially impressive. Gajeel matching Natsu is a far more impressive feat.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Don’t know why people are saying stomp etc. Neither side is stomping eachother, especially if it’s current Gajeel. Current Gajeel is still relative to Natsu outside of FDKM.