Theory Gorosei and Tenryubito - A faked relationship?

[McNuss]

The Tenryubito are the descendants of 19 of the 20 families that defeated the Ancient Kingdom. They have the supreme authority over the World and their words are absolute. However they are complete goofballs, aside from Doflamingo and Rosinante that grew up outside of Mariejois for the larger part of their lives. Even their father was very naive, so much that it lead to his own demise. None of them seem to care about politics at all.

The Gorosei are the Five Political leaders of the World. According to Akainu, they are "Puppets of the Tenryubito". However, that creates a couple of questions.

1. The first involves another very popular theory, the theory that the Gorosei are very old due to Bonney's power. They looked the same over 20 years ago, which is very odd considering Oda usually creates different looks for almost every character, even if it is a much smaller timespan. Bonney is also much older than she looks like, as hinted by an SBS.

So if the Gorosei got the gift of "eternal life", why would the Tenryubito allow that for their "puppets?", but apparently not for themselves? We know they don't because the Donquixote Family is no longer among them after Homing and his children left. If they would have "eternal life" there should be some Donquixote grandfathers and grandmothers, and great-grand..., etc, around.

2. The Marines are clearly not pro-Tenryubito, at least Akainu isn't, and Sengoku is a man who follows and believes in orders, but has a good heart so he most likely wasn't pleased with them as well. It is very likely that others before them had similar thoughts, especially considering the marines premise (Justice) and the timeframe of 800 years of Tenryubito rule. There apparently has never been a military coup d'etat and the reason for that I think are the Gorosei, which represent a more normal political system beneath the Tenryubito, with laws and actual politics. And that system works, there is war in the One Piece world, but the status quo is quite acceptable.

3. The Gorosei seem to be aware of the lost History. Again, why would the Tenryubito allow that?

4. In the real world absolutist monarchies, there was no way people in such a high office would not be aristocrats themselves and I think the office is so important that only the highest ranked aristocrats would get it. See Saudi Arabia, most of the important positions are shared among the royal family.

5. Who are the Gorosei anyway and why is their identity such a big deal? Oda names even the most minor characters and I'm pretty sure he's got tons of letters asking for the Gorosei names, but that topic never pops up in SBS.

6. The Tenryubito are braindead retarded. While their ancestors likely were not, how could they become like this? It is because they could give away their resposibilities and enjoy their high lives. If you had absolute power, wouldn't you give away your responsibilities only to someone you definitely can trust?

I had another argument but I forgot it while writing this -.-

So anyways I think the Gorosei are secretly Tenryubito themselves and actually their leaders. They pretend to be normal governemnt officials to create a progressive image and fool the public that there is actually some constitutional part in their government, thus protecting the Tenryubito due to creating an acceptable status quo for the public.

 

[Kato756]

Youtuber Tekking101 told in his video about the World Gov the best aswer I can think of for your question:

1) Money. Sure the Gov could take the money, but a gov that seizes money never sits well with the Rich
2) The Tenryu are a Symbol of power. 800 years and no one has been able to take them out yet, and they can walk to your island and tell the marines to blow it up without any repercusion. A symbol of the power of the WG.

 

[Vlaput]

The power of the Nobles is to a large extent based on their legacy. They are, if nothing else, living symbols, of the current world order. That Doflamingo could possibly ruin them simply by revealing some secret says everything about the nature of their power. It's very similar to the way the Catholic Church controlled the Western world for a long time.

The WG, Gorosei and the Marines allow the Nobles to remain for a few reasons. The Nobles embody the history and justification for the WG, an attack on the Nobles is an attack on the political order of the WG. The relationship between the WG and the Nobles is symbiotic. And it's simply the fact that the Nobles have a lot of power and influence on their own.

I think there's a good reason to believe that the Gorosei aren't Nobles. They aren't sheltered. They all look physically strong, and not pudgy like the Nobles do. It's clear that at least two have experienced serious combat due to their scars. There's the bald Gorosei who always carries a katana and is dressed like a martial artist. Oda clearly wants them to be mysterious, though, as we don't even know their names.

That they know about the secrets of the OP world is a privilege that comes, and is necessary, with their position. Even Sengoku seems to be privy to the Will of D, f.e., which clearly relates to the Void Century and the Nobles.

Finally, I believe that Oda has a very deep knowledge about the world and its history. OP, in my view, has a strong element of allegory in it. Oda is describing the world as it is and/or the history of how it came about. The WG clearly represents the UN, f.e., and the Gorosei on the other hand represent the five nations of the Security Council (one of the Gorosei's appearance is also clearly based on Mikhail Gorbachev).

 

[McNuss]

The power of the Nobles is to a large extent based on their legacy. They are, if nothing else, living symbols, of the current world order. That Doflamingo could possibly ruin them simply by revealing some secret says everything about the nature of their power. It's very similar to the way the Catholic Church controlled the Western world for a long time.

Nobility and Clerus ruled by divine Law, people back then believed the system was ordered by the highest authority, which was "god". People were very religious back than, and the christian god punishes those (and their families, children, etc.) that disobey him. So the system couldn't change for a long time because people's thought structures didn't allow for it.

The CDs also rule by divine right, but not as god's chosen. They simply claim to be the gods themselves, but people don't believe in them. Quite the opposite, the CDs are loathed throughout the world and this is not just a recent development apparently.

The WG, Gorosei and the Marines allow the Nobles to remain for a few reasons. The Nobles embody the history and justification for the WG, an attack on the Nobles is an attack on the political order of the WG. The relationship between the WG and the Nobles is symbiotic. And it's simply the fact that the Nobles have a lot of power and influence on their own.

Akainu dislikes the CDs. He cares about order, but the Tenryubito aren't necessary for that, quite the opposite, they endanger order as seen with the Doflamingo-CP0 shenanigans.

Actually, the political order of the WG is a paradoxon. The Tenryubito are absolutist ruler over the World, but everything below them is constitutional. This doesn't make much sense at all actually, so the only possible explanation is that the constitutional part is a farce and I think Reverie will reveal just that. I mean does anyone think Cobra or the Fishmen will have sucess with their requests?

I think there's a good reason to believe that the Gorosei aren't Nobles. They aren't sheltered. They all look physically strong, and not pudgy like the Nobles do. It's clear that at least two have experienced serious combat due to their scars. There's the bald Gorosei who always carries a katana and is dressed like a martial artist. Oda clearly wants them to be mysterious, though, as we don't even know their names.

There is no way that in absolutist monarchies someone in such high service wouldn't be part of a nobility class.

That they know about the secrets of the OP world is a privilege that comes, and is necessary, with their position. Even Sengoku seems to be privy to the Will of D, f.e., which clearly relates to the Void Century and the Nobles.

I don't think it was ever implied that Sengoku knows about the Will of D. Having heard about it or having your own assumptions about it does not mean knowing what it is. He definitely didn't know about the Void Century. He ordered the Buster Call on Ohara because he believed the archaeologists there are evil and want to claim the Ancient weapons for their own.

The Gorosei however seem to know about the lost history, since when Clover wanted to reveal his research they ordered him shot. We all assume the secret accuses the CDs of something, otherwise there is no reason to keep all of it hidden for 800 years. Wars happen, the world moves on, so there must be some unspeakable horror hidden in history, and the Gorosei seem to be aware of it.
Why would the CDs allow their puppets to know their secrets, especially if those puppets are in charge of the military? That seems way to risky.

Finally, I believe that Oda has a very deep knowledge about the world and its history. OP, in my view, has a strong element of allegory in it. Oda is describing the world as it is and/or the history of how it came about. The WG clearly represents the UN, f.e., and the Gorosei on the other hand represent the five nations of the Security Council (one of the Gorosei's appearance is also clearly based on Mikhail Gorbachev).

Yup, that seems to have been his inspiration.

-----

Again, a lot of my speculations assume that the Gorosei are older than they appear to be because they are the only characters shown with exactly the same appearence in a flashback and the current (and preskip) timeline. That is very odd for Oda. We also know Bonney is special to the WG for some reason.

 

[M3J]

The Tenryuubito aren't necessarily rulers though, are they? They're just arrogant shitheads who think they're entitled, and they're seen as exalted figures solely because they descended from founders of the World Government. I don't think they're leaders, other than being able to get away with what they want to do due to protection. If we were to use real life comparison, I'd say the Tenryuubito are the monarchs of Britain - Queen Elizabeth and the likes are royalty, but they have little to no power, just social influence. The Gorosei are the Government of UK or Parliament or whatever, they make the actual decisions.

The Tenryuubito likely don't care about the Void Century, do they? Also doesn't look like they care about the world itself, as long as they're alive and can do whatever they want. What I wanna know is, are Gorosei part of Tenryuubito or were they handpicked for whatever reason? Or as someones theorized, could they be over a century old and survived thanks to drinking blood or Bonney's devil fruit and ope ope no mi?

 

[Vlaput]

Nobility and Clerus ruled by divine Law, people back then believed the system was ordered by the highest authority, which was "god". People were very religious back than, and the christian god punishes those (and their families, children, etc.) that disobey him. So the system couldn't change for a long time because people's thought structures didn't allow for it.

The CDs also rule by divine right, but not as god's chosen. They simply claim to be the gods themselves, but people don't believe in them. Quite the opposite, the CDs are loathed throughout the world and this is not just a recent development apparently.

For a long time the Vatican controlled the Western world merely through ideas is my point. Ideas are powerful, both in the real world and in OP. It's not like with the Yonkou that the Nobles are just so powerful and intimidating that their subjects give them whatever they want. Interestingly, though, it's implied the Nobles are becoming more active in world affairs (CP0 becoming more powerful during the timeskip f.e.).

Akainu dislikes the CDs. He cares about order, but the Tenryubito aren't necessary for that, quite the opposite, they endanger order as seen with the Doflamingo-CP0 shenanigans.

Akainu's attitude towards the CDs is something I've written about before. I have speculated that there are strong tensions within the WG because of issues like that. Still, though, the Marines are just the military arm of the WG. The Marines can't just overturn 800 years of history because the CD interfere in their business. And note I said that the CD are symbols of the political order...

Actually, the political order of the WG is a paradoxon. The Tenryubito are absolutist ruler over the World, but everything below them is constitutional. This doesn't make much sense at all actually, so the only possible explanation is that the constitutional part is a farce and I think Reverie will reveal just that. I mean does anyone think Cobra or the Fishmen will have sucess with their requests?

Power doesn't work like that in real life, probably doesn't in OP either. If their power is "absolute", why can't they just order Doflamingo to be killed? No, they have to assassinate him, though it's obvious at the same time that no one else is going to send assassins after him. It means they can't just do whatever they want. Also it's implied that the Marines are standing up to the Nobles because they are protecting Doflamingo.

Even the issue you brought up with Doflamingo's resignation: they went behind the Gorosei and Marine's backs using the CP0 and power in the media. They did that because no one would have accepted it. Easier to go, "it's done, now cry about it." They keep having to do stuff in that way.

Btw, note Akainu calls the CP0, not the Gorosei, the Nobles' puppets.

There is no way that in absolutist monarchies someone in such high service wouldn't be part of a nobility class.

Maybe, but when I say Noble I mean World Noble/Celestial Dragon, which they are by all means implied not to be. Kong does have a similar position and works in Mariejois, though, and I doubt he's of any particularly noteworthy heritage.

I don't think it was ever implied that Sengoku knows about the Will of D. Having heard about it or having your own assumptions about it does not mean knowing what it is. He definitely didn't know about the Void Century. He ordered the Buster Call on Ohara because he believed the archaeologists there are evil and want to claim the Ancient weapons for their own.

He does seem to know something. It's implied in his conversation with Law and the D alone made him investigate Ace. About Sengoku I only said he knows about the Will of D and that it relates to the secrets of the Nobles.

The Gorosei however seem to know about the lost history, since when Clover wanted to reveal his research they ordered him shot. We all assume the secret accuses the CDs of something, otherwise there is no reason to keep all of it hidden for 800 years. Wars happen, the world moves on, so there must be some unspeakable horror hidden in history, and the Gorosei seem to be aware of it.
Why would the CDs allow their puppets to know their secrets, especially if those puppets are in charge of the military? That seems way to risky.

The Gorosei are at the absolute top of the WG. They have served as world leaders for a very, very long time and have shown loyalty. They are too high up not to know about those secrets and their position requires they do anyway. And they aren't in charge of the military, Akainu is. Whatever the secret is, it is so dangerous it would destroy the current political order. How would that serve the Gorosei and the WG?

Yup, that seems to have been his inspiration.

-----

Again, a lot of my speculations assume that the Gorosei are older than they appear to be because they are the only characters shown with exactly the same appearence in a flashback and the current (and preskip) timeline. That is very odd for Oda. We also know Bonney is special to the WG for some reason.

Yeah, it's likely, but it doesn't mean they are Nobles.

 

[McNuss]

The Tenryuubito aren't necessarily rulers though, are they? They're just arrogant shitheads who think they're entitled, and they're seen as exalted figures solely because they descended from founders of the World Government. I don't think they're leaders, other than being able to get away with what they want to do due to protection. If we were to use real life comparison, I'd say the Tenryuubito are the monarchs of Britain - Queen Elizabeth and the likes are royalty, but they have little to no power, just social influence. The Gorosei are the Government of UK or Parliament or whatever, they make the actual decisions.

The Tenryubito definitely have powers, they can basically do what they please. They can take any woman for wife even without her consent, they can shot citizen whenever they want or take them as slaves. They have authority over the lives of their subjects so they definitely are rulers, they just passed all governmental responsibilities to the Gorosei.

Actually the Queen of the United Kingdom is a bad example since Britain/England is one of or even the first constitutional monarchies in Europe. That stuff with Oliver Cromwell happened I think a century before the french Revolution, I think? I'm not too familiar with it since we skipped that in our history classes in school

The english Monarch also had passed some of his powers to his supporting (and formerly revolting) nobles somewhere during medieval times. I think "Magna Carta" was the name of the contract. Due to that, Britain never moved into total absolutism like France and Austria did, it always involved more participation of its subjects.
I think I have to reread british history.

A much better example today would be the Al-Saud family of Saudi-Arabia. The family is huge, and not all of them have big governmental responsibilities, yet they all live a life of luxury and pleasures and can even get away with breaking the laws.

The Tenryubito definitely have powers, they can basically do what they please. They can take any woman for wife even without her consent, they can shot citizen whenever they want or take them as slaves. They have authority over the lives of their subjects so they definitely are rulers, they just passed all governmental responsibilities to the Gorosei.

The Tenryuubito likely don't care about the Void Century, do they? Also doesn't look like they care about the world itself, as long as they're alive and can do whatever they want. What I wanna know is, are Gorosei part of Tenryuubito or were they handpicked for whatever reason? Or as someones theorized, could they be over a century old and survived thanks to drinking blood or Bonney's devil fruit and ope ope no mi?

They have to, right? How else could Doflamingo know about the national treasure?
Also, what else is the reason for keeping lost history a secret then? The entire World Government system seems otherwise quite fair. The Gorosei seem to be rational leaders that actually care about the world, for example they were worried when Jinbe left the Shishibukai, as it could worsen the relationship between humans and fishmen. All nations are represented in the reverie council. The majority of marines are good at their jobs, the reputation of the marines is very high.
Lost History is definitely hidden because it accuses someone of something and its revelation good shake up the entire world. A crime 800 years ago doesn't bother anyone anymore if the status quo is acceptable. Unless someone who can be made responsible for said crime is still part of the system today.

For a long time the Vatican controlled the Western world merely through ideas is my point. Ideas are powerful, both in the real world and in OP. It's not like with the Yonkou that the Nobles are just so powerful and intimidating that their subjects give them whatever they want. Interestingly, though, it's implied the Nobles are becoming more active in world affairs (CP0 becoming more powerful during the timeskip f.e.).

The Vaticans idea promised eternal salvation for it's subjects though. The Tenryubito don't offer that.

Also I don't think one could say the Vatican controlled Europe with ideas alone or even controlled it in the first place. It was always a give-and-take relationship between the spiritual leaders, of which the pope was the first, and the worldly leaders, of which the Holy Roman Emperor was the first.
And the same system applies for eastern europe as well, with the orthodox patriarch and the russian zar. Christianity wouldn't have spread through all of Europe if it weren't for powerful wordly figures (the Romans) taking it up.

Akainu's attitude towards the CDs is something I've written about before. I have speculated that there are strong tensions within the WG because of issues like that. Still, though, the Marines are just the military arm of the WG. The Marines can't just overturn 800 years of history because the CD interfere in their business. And note I said that the CD are symbols of the political order...

Power doesn't work like that in real life, probably doesn't in OP either. If their power is "absolute", why can't they just order Doflamingo to be killed? No, they have to assassinate him, though it's obvious at the same time that no one else is going to send assassins after him. It means they can't just do whatever they want. Also it's implied that the Marines are standing up to the Nobles because they are protecting Doflamingo.

Even the issue you brought up with Doflamingo's resignation: they went behind the Gorosei and Marine's backs using the CP0 and power in the media. They did that because no one would have accepted it. Easier to go, "it's done, now cry about it." They keep having to do stuff in that way.

Btw, note Akainu calls the CP0, not the Gorosei, the Nobles' puppets.

As I said, there seems to be a constitutional order, but it is a farce. No one puts the Tenryubito on trial for what they did, in fact they are allowed to do as they please and this was shown many times. They have authority about the lives and deaths of their subjects and this is by definition absolute.

 

[M3J]

The Tenryubito definitely have powers, they can basically do what they please. They can take any woman for wife even without her consent, they can shot citizen whenever they want or take them as slaves. They have authority over the lives of their subjects so they definitely are rulers, they just passed all governmental responsibilities to the Gorosei.

Actually the Queen of the United Kingdom is a bad example since Britain/England is one of or even the first constitutional monarchies in Europe. That stuff with Oliver Cromwell happened I think a century before the french Revolution, I think? I'm not too familiar with it since we skipped that in our history classes in school

The english Monarch also had passed some of his powers to his supporting (and formerly revolting) nobles somewhere during medieval times. I think "Magna Carta" was the name of the contract. Due to that, Britain never moved into total absolutism like France and Austria did, it always involved more participation of its subjects.
I think I have to reread british history.

A much better example today would be the Al-Saud family of Saudi-Arabia. The family is huge, and not all of them have big governmental responsibilities, yet they all live a life of luxury and pleasures and can even get away with breaking the laws.

Is that really being rulers or just being able to get away with whatever they want due to influence? What if the Gorosei overrules them?

She's a good example because of her current situation. Plus, the Tenryuubito did descended from the kings who also ruled hte world after forming the World Government, I think?

The Al-Saud family rules the country? Or do some of them just have positions in the government?

They have to, right? How else could Doflamingo know about the national treasure?
Also, what else is the reason for keeping lost history a secret then? The entire World Government system seems otherwise quite fair. The Gorosei seem to be rational leaders that actually care about the world, for example they were worried when Jinbe left the Shishibukai, as it could worsen the relationship between humans and fishmen. All nations are represented in the reverie council. The majority of marines are good at their jobs, the reputation of the marines is very high.
Lost History is definitely hidden because it accuses someone of something and its revelation good shake up the entire world. A crime 800 years ago doesn't bother anyone anymore if the status quo is acceptable. Unless someone who can be made responsible for said crime is still part of the system today.

By doing research on it, reading it somewhere, or being told about the treasure by someone who knew about it? I mean, he left Mariejois with his dad when he was a kid, why would anyone tell a kid about a treasure?

But the Gorosei were also okay with killing innocent people who lived in Ohara. I'm not sure that they're good people, given all things.

Yeah, I'm 95% sure that the Void Century involves horror committed by the World Government that would shake people's faith. Also possible that the World Government is just blindly protecting the secret as the reasons may have been lost centuries ago.

 

[Vlaput]

The Vaticans idea promised eternal salvation for it's subjects though. The Tenryubito don't offer that.

Doesn't matter. I used the Vatican as an example of how ideas are powerful. The Pharaoh of Egypt also ruled as a divinity, and with the priestly class having a lot of powers due to their position in context of the Egyptian belief system, which didn't, iirc, promise eternal salvation or anything like that.

Also I don't think one could say the Vatican controlled Europe with ideas alone or even controlled it in the first place. It was always a give-and-take relationship between the spiritual leaders, of which the pope was the first, and the worldly leaders, of which the Holy Roman Emperor was the first.

The HRE itself operated on the claim that it was the inheritor of the Roman Empire. And to quote Voltaire, "it was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire." The real great power of Middle Age Europe was France—overall. It shouldn't surprise us that it was with the French Revolution that the Papacy's power waned. The HRE, on the other hand, was basically a smaller EU with far less power.

Knowing a fair bit about this history, it was quite a problem for Christendom when Charlemagne was crowned emperor of Rome by the Pope, because the Byzantine Empire (which is actually a neologism) was supposed to be the Roman Empire, as it had been recognized as in the Eumenical Councils.

Anyway, the coronation of Charlemagne as Roman emperor in and of itself caused a lot of problems for the unity of Christendom, both religiously and politically. Ideas and symbolism matters a lot.

And the same system applies for eastern europe as well, with the orthodox patriarch and the russian zar. Christianity wouldn't have spread through all of Europe if it weren't for powerful wordly figures (the Romans) taking it up.

The model of the Orthodox Church is completely different. First of all, there isn't one Orthodox Patriarch. The guiding philosophy of Orthodox ecclesiology is collegiality and equality between the clergy. The Patriarch(s) are first-among-equals: it's a honorary position, in complete contradiction to the Roman Catholic Church.

As I said, there seems to be a constitutional order, but it is a farce. No one puts the Tenryubito on trial for what they did, in fact they are allowed to do as they please and this was shown many times. They have authority about the lives and deaths of their subjects and this is by definition absolute.

They have extreme privileges, but that doesn't mean they have absolute political power: they are different things. The OP world is more complex than that. Oda has an admirable knowledge of history and politics.

Finally, again, that the secrets of Mariejois, which Doflamingo knows, could break the CD's power implies everything about the nature of their power.

 

[GodOfDestruction]

I think you have a point because I've noticed this theme in One Piece of Hiding.

Think about it, the WG covers up all the actions done by pirates to make themselves look good.

Some characters go under aliases before we actually meet them (Joker=Doflamingo, Mr.0=Crocodile, Big Mom=Charlotte Linlin)

CPO wear mask and many didn't even believe that CP9 existed.

Their are so many ideals of hiding in One Piece.

Luffy will play a role in revealing life long secrets because he isn't one to hide things.
Remember when he defeated Buggy the first time and the villagers ask if he was a pirate, he answered yes without hesitation.

 

[McNuss]

She's a good example because of her current situation. Plus, the Tenryuubito did descended from the kings who also ruled hte world after forming the World Government, I think?

No she isn't. If the Queen goes to Jamaica to take Slaves, what would happen?

The Al-Saud family rules the country? Or do some of them just have positions in the government?

They rule the country, that's why it is called Saudi-Arabia. And it is an Absolutist Country. The King, Salman is "legibus solutus", the laws do not apply to him.

But the Gorosei were also okay with killing innocent people who lived in Ohara. I'm not sure that they're good people, given all things.

They never ordererd any innocent citizen of Ohara killed. The archaelogists are all guilty of a capital crime, wether that is just or not doesn't matter in this context. Also, to the public, they wanted to reinvoke ancient weapons and destroy the world.

CP9 was tasked to deal with these archaelogists, and they got a golden den den mushi for a Buster Call. The Admiral in charge of these Buster Call, Sengoku, prepared an espace ship for all the innocent citizen. The Buster Call was meant to wipe out the archaelogists, their work, and their island but nothing else.

It was Vice Admiral Sakazuki who shot down the escape ship, because he is a hardliner that thinks the sacrifice of these few would protect the many.

Doesn't matter. I used the Vatican as an example of how ideas are powerful. The Pharaoh of Egypt also ruled as a divinity, and with the priestly class having a lot of powers due to their position in context of the Egyptian belief system, which didn't, iirc, promise eternal salvation or anything like that.

I'm pretty sure ancient egyptian religion had an afterlife as well.

The HRE itself operated on the claim that it was the inheritor of the Roman Empire. And to quote Voltaire, "it was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire." The real great power of Middle Age Europe was France—overall. It shouldn't surprise us that it was with the French Revolution that the Papacy's power waned. The HRE, on the other hand, was basically a smaller EU with far less power.

That doesn't change the fact that the church needed powerful wordly leaders and powerful worldy leaders needed the church. Give-and take relationship.

The HR Emperor being the highest wordly leader is a symbol, you are right about symbols and ideas being important. Actual power is determined by much more than just symbols and ideas though.

They have extreme privileges, but that doesn't mean they have absolute political power: they are different things. The OP world is more complex than that. Oda has an admirable knowledge of history and politics.

They have life-death-authorithy over all WG citizen. That's like the most absolute political power one could have

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Basically, last chapter confirms what I've said. The Gorosei are above the Tenryubito and since the WG was founded by the 20 Tenryubito families, this can only imply that the Gorosei are Tenryubito themselves.[/QUOTE]