Team Gray and Ur vs Natsu and Gildarts

[Mystic Mistral]

A battle of mentors and students (somewhat)
All are Alvarez arc level .
Which team takes the fight ??

 

[Brandish μ]

Are we allowing for DeS to work on Natsu? That'dd be the only way this is fair.

Anyways Natsu can oneshot Ur and Gray while Gildarts has some private time with porn mags.

 

[Mystic Mistral]

Are we allowing for DeS to work on Natsu? That'dd be the only way this is fair.

Anyways Natsu can oneshot Ur and Gray while Gildarts has some private time with porn mags.

How so ,

Spoiler

Gildarts himself has stated that Ur is a very formidable mage in The Ice trail series

Also Natsu and gray are almoost equal , and we still haven't seen what Gray has up his sleeve (maynot be @ King ds mode level but still compatible)

 

[Axiomus]

This is almost unfair. Natsu and Gildarts are both stronger than Ur. Unless Ur tries to Iced-Shell one of them, pretty soon it's going to be 2v1. Natsu is pretty overpowered after the 1 year time-skip. I would argue that Ur would almost be oneshottable.

Natsu's secret involved having Igneel's power in his arm. That's the power of someone who was nearly at Acnologia's level in his arm. I don't really believe Gray is anywhere close to that level of power, even with whatever supposed secret he has. If I had to guess: He probably just masterd his demon slayer magic and has a full demon form like Silver was mentioned to have. Maybe it'll give him an etherious form and he can use curses like momento mori, and that's why he thinks he'll be able to take out Zeref. However, all this is speculation. I can go the other way and say that Natsu has yet to show dragon force, or that half-dragonized form from the movie poster.

 

[Brandish μ]

We can use hype for this thread?

If so I give Natsu vs Gray mid diff at best. Just believe Natsu is so strong offensively that you're going to need insane durability or defense to keep up with him. Only if DeS can work on Natsu as anti-demon magic can I see Gray closing the gap on Natsu.

Gildarts was trying to get laid so he complimented Ur, he is stronger.

 

[Mystic Mistral]

We can use hype for this thread?

If so I give Natsu vs Gray mid diff at best. Just believe Natsu is so strong offensively that you're going to need insane durability or defense to keep up with him. Only if DeS can work on Natsu as anti-demon magic can I see Gray closing the gap on Natsu.

Gildarts was trying to get laid so he complimented Ur, he is stronger.

Gildarts said this after Ur died , so that rules out your "prediction" .Also he never said that Ur is stronger than him , he said that she was someone not to be messed with .
Gildarts maybe the one to oneshot Gray/Ur with med difficulty .
I dont see Natsu doing it though

 

[Brandish μ]

My mistake only read over Ice Trail briefly (mainly to see Gildarts powers).

I give Ur Tartarus Erza level.

Natsu steam rolls anyone without awesome durability. Neither Gray or Ur seem to have durability above Bluenote. Natsu > Gildarts.

 

[Holt]

Unfair battle imo. Natsu is stronger than Gray and same for Gildarts and Ur. It wouldn't even that much of a close battle. Heck both Natsu and Gildarts can probably take out those 2 solo. Natsu has dragon force which gives him too much of a boost. Gildarts would have a field day crashing and breaking their ice attacks. Natsu & Gildarts take this with average difficulty at most.

 

[Brandish μ]

Anyone who fights Gildarts is most likely going to engage in a close quarter battle. He can disassemble a lot of ranged attacks. Up close he can take on a secret art from pre-skip Natsu without any damage, and with crash a punch busts a mountain. So you'd need durability to take him on too. I don't see Gray or Ur at that level either. So agree Gildarts or Natsu can solo this. To make it fair you need to give Team Ice another strong person like Ajeel imo.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 2, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 2, 2016 ---

.Like to add that I don't think vs threads need to be fair or even just added that last bit to demonstrate how much of a difference I believe the teams are, Ajeel might be enough for the win if Natsu stays in base.

 

[Vasgoko]

No, this is a good thread.

I agree with @Mystic Mistral on this one.

I read all chapts of Fairy Tail Ice Trail (obviously), and although it is true Gildartz is stronger than Ur, he probably isn't too much stronger.

Besides, Gray and Ur sharing the same type of magic and having close relations could allow them to perform a Unison Raid, which I think would be enough to oneshot either Gildartz or Natsu.

Gildartz and Natsu would also have to be on high alert, cuz with 2 ice make mages, there could literally be infinite clones waiting around to fool you.

One last thing, you guys are missing one thing.

Gray is IDeS, perfect for forming a duo with Ur. Ur can feed him as much of her ice as she wants.

It probably tastes good too.


Given that Gray can be refueled constantly as an IDeS:

Gray and Ur win high diff if they are lucky and extreme diff at most.

Never underestimate the lineage of the Ice mages. Just cuz the thread seems obvious doesn't mean it is. The Ice Mage Lineage has powerful users in their ranks. Be careful.

 

[Mirage]

Gldarts one-shots both. What is this?

 

[Axiomus]

No, this is a good thread.

I agree with @Mystic Mistral on this one.

I read all chapts of Fairy Tail Ice Trail (obviously), and although it is true Gildartz is stronger than Ur, he probably isn't too much stronger.

Besides, Gray and Ur sharing the same type of magic and having close relations could allow them to perform a Unison Raid, which I think would be enough to oneshot either Gildartz or Natsu.

Gildartz and Natsu would also have to be on high alert, cuz with 2 ice make mages, there could literally be infinite clones waiting around to fool you.

One last thing, you guys are missing one thing.

Gray is IDeS, perfect for forming a duo with Ur. Ur can feed him as much of her ice as she wants.

It probably tastes good too.


Given that Gray can be refueled constantly as an IDeS:

Gray and Ur win high diff if they are lucky and extreme diff at most.

Never underestimate the lineage of the Ice mages. Just cuz the thread seems obvious doesn't mean it is. The Ice Mage Lineage has powerful users in their ranks. Be careful.

I get that Ur can refuel Gray, but that does not mean team 1 has an infinite supply of power. Ur herself has a limit. At most, she can give him all of her power and give Gray a better chance. Ur herself is likely not as strong as Silver was, so the power-up would not have been as extreme as it was in the Tartarus arc. We're left with Gray 2v1 against both Natsu and Gildarts.

Natsu can take down nearly 1000 targets with a punch and a roar. Clones will not be a large issue. Besides, what's stopping Gildarts from turning Natsu into thousands of mini-Natsu's each using a mini-demolition fist on a clone Ikusa-Tsunagi style?

 

[Vasgoko]

I get that Ur can refuel Gray, but that does not mean team 1 has an infinite supply of power. Ur herself has a limit. At most, she can give him all of her power and give Gray a better chance. Ur herself is likely not as strong as Silver was, so the power-up would not have been as extreme as it was in the Tartarus arc. We're left with Gray 2v1 against both Natsu and Gildarts.

Natsu can take down nearly 1000 targets with a punch and a roar. Clones will not be a large issue. Besides, what's stopping Gildarts from turning Natsu into thousands of mini-Natsu's each using a mini-demolition fist on a clone Ikusa-Tsunagi style?

Of course they dont have an infinite supply. But do you know how much power Ur has? She is TWS level. Gray's IDeSM is formidable. If you keep resupplying that, Gray can easily unleash several nukes at once. Ur isnt as strong as Silver, but Ur is definitely up there with him.

The clones aren't meant to be difficult to destroy. They are meant to cause a distraction of some sort. Even Silver fell for the trap during his fight with Gray. Ice clones are a big deal, if you look at the majority of the Ice Mages' battles, the clones prove the most useful and effective when winning a battle. Cuz one mistake, and you could be frozen solid.

Lol mini-Natsu's are weak. When you split them into tiny little guys, their power is decreased. Each mini Natsu wont have enough power to do demolition fists. Even if they could, it would feel like a pinch on Gray and Ur. When Gildartz split Natsu into tiny little pieces, they could do nothing. That attack is meant for an advantage for Gildartz, but since Gildartz and Natsu are on the same team, it would prove to be a disadvantage for both of them.



Sorry, but I only see Gray and Ur winning this one. With them on the same team, it is a major advantage towards the Ice Team.

There is just simply no way to counter this, especially with a IDeS and another powerful TWS-level Ice Mage Mentor/Master.

Don't worry, not every team with a Natsu or Gildartz automatically wins.

Imagine Natsu with another Fire Mage Master (Like a human Igneel but scaled down to Ur's level), you guys would use the same argument as me that they can refuel Natsu.

I'd say being honest here, the Ice Mage team takes this simply cuz they have the greater advantage here. No bias..

 

[Axiomus]

Of course they dont have an infinite supply. But do you know how much power Ur has? She is TWS level. Gray's IDeSM is formidable. If you keep resupplying that, Gray can easily unleash several nukes at once. Ur isnt as strong as Silver, but Ur is definitely up there with him.

The clones aren't meant to be difficult to destroy. They are meant to cause a distraction of some sort. Even Silver fell for the trap during his fight with Gray. Ice clones are a big deal, if you look at the majority of the Ice Mages' battles, the clones prove the most useful and effective when winning a battle. Cuz one mistake, and you could be frozen solid.

Lol mini-Natsu's are weak. When you split them into tiny little guys, their power is decreased. Each mini Natsu wont have enough power to do demolition fists. Even if they could, it would feel like a pinch on Gray and Ur. When Gildartz split Natsu into tiny little pieces, they could do nothing. That attack is meant for an advantage for Gildartz, but since Gildartz and Natsu are on the same team, it would prove to be a disadvantage for both of them.



Sorry, but I only see Gray and Ur winning this one. With them on the same team, it is a major advantage towards the Ice Team.

There is just simply no way to counter this, especially with a IDeS and another powerful TWS-level Ice Mage Mentor/Master.

Don't worry, not every team with a Natsu or Gildartz automatically wins.

Imagine Natsu with another Fire Mage Master (Like a human Igneel but scaled down to Ur's level), you guys would use the same argument as me that they can refuel Natsu.

I'd say being honest here, the Ice Mage team takes this simply cuz they have the greater advantage here. No bias..

Bluenote was tenrou Gildart's level, which is more than qualified for TWS. Natsu oneshotted him. Gildarts is also stronger than Ur. Like I said, Ur is likely weaker than Silver, meaning Gray would have less of a power-up than he did in Tartarus. On top of that, he will have to 2v1 Natsu and Gildarts if Ur gives him all his power.

Igneel can't be scaled down to Ur's level. Human Igneel would at the very least be on Igneel-empowered Natsu's level. Technically he should be stronger, because he spent 20 minutes fighting Acnologia. Human Igneel would be on Acnologia's level. At this point, I wouldn't be arguing for the fact he could feed Natsu. I would be arguing for the fact he could solo most of Ishgar. If you're talking about a Ur level-mage, it's still the same deal. Let's use an example: If Natsu and Oracion Seis arc Jellal was fighting Laxus and Ajeel, I wouldn't say that just because Jellal can feed Natsu that he will automatically win. Oracion Seis arc Jellal is not individually stronger than Ajeel. Even if Jellal feeds his power to Natsu, he still wouldn't have enough power to solo Laxus and Ajeel. .

Like I said, Natsu can hit a few hundred targets per hit. I never said they were going to be difficult to destroy. I'm saying that numbers are pretty much irrelevant. Besides, Gray nor Ur have ever created 1000s of clones at a time.

What is Natsu's size relative to Ikusa-Tsunagi? I don't see why he wouldn't be able to scale that to a human sized target with less power. Tenrou Natsu and current Natsu is incomparable anyways. Also, what's stopping Gildarts from using dis-assembly magic against Ur or Gray?

How does team 1 have more of an advantage? Both members on team 2 are individually stronger.

 

[Vasgoko]

Bluenote was tenrou Gildart's level, which is more than qualified for TWS. Natsu oneshotted him. Gildarts is also stronger than Ur. Like I said, Ur is likely weaker than Silver, meaning Gray would have less of a power-up than he did in Tartarus. On top of that, he will have to 2v1 Natsu and Gildarts if Ur gives him all his power.

Igneel can't be scaled down to Ur's level. Human Igneel would at the very least be on Igneel-empowered Natsu's level. Technically he should be stronger, because he spent 20 minutes fighting Acnologia. Human Igneel would be on Acnologia's level. If you're talking about a Ur level-mage that uses fire...then, okay. Same thing applies. Natsu would only receive a power-up equivalent to that. It wouldn't allow him to solo 2 people stronger than him.

Like I said, Natsu can hit a few hundred targets per hit. I never said they were going to be difficult to destroy. I'm saying that numbers are pretty much irrelevant. Besides, Gray nor Ur have ever created 1000s of clones at a time.

What is Natsu's size relative to Ikusa-Tsunagi? I don't see why he wouldn't be able to scale that to a human sized target with less power. Tenrou Natsu and current Natsu is incomparable anyways.

How does team 1 have more of an advantage? Both members on team 2 are individually stronger.

Well first, Ur was TWS level long before Bluenote came into the picture. Second, the OP on the thread says everybody is Alvarez level. Which you have to assume Ur in Alvarez time period and not Tenrou.

You missed my point with Igneel. Of course Igneel can't literally be scaled down. But im saying it as a mentor figure. I didn't want to use Zancrow as an example cuz Natsu has trouble eating Zancrow's flames. But for the sake of the argument, assume Natsu could easily eat Zancrow's flames. Picture Zancrow on Natsu's team. You'd use the exact same argument as me that Natsu can be refueled.


What you fail to understand though is that the Slayers don't convert magical energy equivalently. Consuming a bite of their element can already give them immense power. Ur's ice is already strong to begin with. Ur's Ice CAN BE LIKE Jellal's Flame of Rebuke. Gray consuming even a moderate amount is already enough to make Natsu and Gildartz standing on the losing side.


Gray and Ur dont need 1000 clones to beat Natsu and Gildartz. Less than 10-15 is enough.


You do realize that Ikusa-Tsunagi was fodder in Alvarez right? That guys is fodder just like the rest of Avatar. I don't know why people make it sound like Ikusa-Tsunagi was a big feat on the level of a Spriggan.

Jura can fodderize Ikusa-Tsunagi.

 

[Axiomus]

Well first, Ur was TWS level long before Bluenote came into the picture. Second, the OP on the thread says everybody is Alvarez level. Which you have to assume Ur in Alvarez time period and not Tenrou.

You missed my point with Igneel. Of course Igneel can't literally be scaled down. But im saying it as a mentor figure. I didn't want to use Zancrow as an example cuz Natsu has trouble eating Zancrow's flames. But for the sake of the argument, assume Natsu could easily eat Zancrow's flames. Picture Zancrow on Natsu's team. You'd use the exact same argument as me that Natsu can be refueled.


What you fail to understand though is that the Slayers don't convert magical energy equivalently. Consuming a bite of their element can already give them immense power. Ur's ice is already strong to begin with. Ur's Ice CAN BE LIKE Jellal's Flame of Rebuke. Gray consuming even a moderate amount is already enough to make Natsu and Gildartz standing on the losing side.


Gray and Ur dont need 1000 clones to beat Natsu and Gildartz. Less than 10-15 is enough.


You do realize that Ikusa-Tsunagi was fodder in Alvarez right? That guys is fodder just like the rest of Avatar. I don't know why people make it sound like Ikusa-Tsunagi was a big feat on the level of a Spriggan.

Jura can fodderize Ikusa-Tsunagi.

Actually, Ur was never a 10 wizard saint. Ultear stated if she was alive 7 years later, she might be considered a wizard saint. There's no such thing as Alvarez Ur. She's water in the ocean. This thread becomes pointless if we're just going to make entire characters up.

Even better. Let's say Tenrou Natsu + Zancrow vs Tenrou Erza + Azuma. Even if Natsu ate Zancrow's power, he would not solo these two at once. Zancrow is weaker than Azuma, and Natsu is weaker than Erza.

Ikusa-Tsunagi was easily the largest creature in the series thus far. If I can believe that normal Natsu can blow up a giant god, I can believe mini Natsu can do the same to a human sized clone. What makes you say Jura can fodderize Ikusa-Tsunagi? Ikusa-Tsunagi was a god of war. His slash was many times the size of a town, easily the largest offensive move in the series. To destroy him, Natsu had to use an attack 1/3 the size of the town. What feats does Jura have that suggests he could take out this god?

Also, demolition fist is really a more impressive feat than any of Ajeel's spells in terms of damage capacity and the ability to overpower other spells.

When we see Natsu go use dragon force or LFD, it was done by consuming all of Jellal or Laxus' power. Whenever Natsu eats some normal fire, it only replenishes him. It doesn't give him a power-boost to allow him to perform feats he can't do by himself. Even with devil slayer magic in Tartarus, Gray only became more powerful because he received all of Silver's power. Are you seriously saying a bite of Ur's ice is equivalent of all of Jellal's power? That's waaaaaaaaay too much hype for Ur. When Silver ate Ice-Make: Impact or Cold Excalibur, did he receive massive power-ups? No. What makes you think random pieces of ice from Ur will do the trick?

 

[Vasgoko]

Well first, Ur was TWS level long before Bluenote came into the picture. Second, the OP on the thread says everybody is Alvarez level. Which you have to assume Ur in Alvarez time period and not Tenrou.

You missed my point with Igneel. Of course Igneel can't literally be scaled down. But im saying it as a mentor figure. I didn't want to use Zancrow as an example cuz Natsu has trouble eating Zancrow's flames. But for the sake of the argument, assume Natsu could easily eat Zancrow's flames. Picture Zancrow on Natsu's team. You'd use the exact same argument as me that Natsu can be refueled.


What you fail to understand though is that the Slayers don't convert magical energy equivalently. Consuming a bite of their element can already give them immense power. Ur's ice is already strong to begin with. Ur's Ice CAN BE LIKE Jellal's Flame of Rebuke. Gray consuming even a moderate amount is already enough to make Natsu and Gildartz standing on the losing side.


Gray and Ur dont need 1000 clones to beat Natsu and Gildartz. Less than 10-15 is enough.


You do realize that Ikusa-Tsunagi was fodder in Alvarez right? That guys is fodder just like the rest of Avatar. I don't know why people make it sound like Ikusa-Tsunagi was a big feat on the level of a Spriggan.

Jura can fodderize Ikusa-Tsunagi.

Actually, Ur was never a 10 wizard saint. Ultear stated if she was alive 7 years later, she might be considered a wizard saint. There's no such thing as Alvarez Ur. She's water in the ocean. This thread becomes pointless if we're just going to make entire characters up.

Even better. Let's say Tenrou Natsu + Zancrow vs Tenrou Erza + Azuma. Even if Natsu ate Zancrow's power, he would not solo these two at once. Zancrow is weaker than Azuma, and Natsu is weaker than Erza.

Ikusa-Tsunagi was easily the largest creature in the series thus far. If I can believe that normal Natsu can blow up a giant god, I can believe mini Natsu can do the same to a human sized clone. What makes you say Jura can fodderize Ikusa-Tsunagi? Ikusa-Tsunagi was a god of war. His slash was many times the size of a town, easily the largest offensive move in the series. To destroy him, Natsu had to use an attack 1/3 the size of the town. What feats does Jura have that suggests he could take out this god?

Also, demolition fist is really a more impressive feat than any of Ajeel's spells in terms of damage capacity and the ability to overpower other spells.

When we see Natsu go use dragon force or LFD, it was done by consuming all of Jellal or Laxus' power. Whenever Natsu eats some normal fire, it only replenishes him. It doesn't give him a power-boost to allow him to perform feats he can't do by himself. Even with devil slayer magic in Tartarus, Gray only became more powerful because he received all of Silver's power. Are you seriously saying a bite of Ur's ice is equivalent of all of Jellal's power? That's waaaaaaaaay too much hype for Ur. When Silver ate Ice-Make: Impact or Cold Excalibur, did he receive massive power-ups? No. What makes you think random pieces of ice from Ur will do the trick?

I said TWS level. Yes, Ur > Jellal or Jura.

You are comparing 2 different things. When Natsu vs. Ikusa-Tsunagi, Natsu didnt lost any power. He still had his full power and strength. Size doesn't mean anything, Ikusa-Tsunagi was a fodder. Again, Jura could fodderize that Avatar fake god of war. Ikusa-Tsunagi is nothing but fodder.


When Gildartz makes mini Natsu's, its not about size. Natsu is weak cuz his total power is divided among all the tiny Natsu which is why he is weaker. None of the tiny Natsu's have enough magical power to deal any damage. I never said anything about size.

Jellal's Flame of Rebuke was NOT all of his power. It was what he had left. Jellal was on the verge of collapsing. It was just a PoF flame that was created out of emotions and feelings.

Yeah, Silver received a massive power up when he ate Gray's ice. He just didn't use it. He died far too early in the battle to show you his maximum power.

When Natsu ate that tiny flame from Jellal, he was extremely powerful. When Gajeel took a bite of Levy's Iron of Love, he was able to solo the 2 geeks of Grimioire.

So yes, the slayers are made to unleash immense magical power upon eating a little bit of their element.

 

[Axiomus]

I said TWS level. Yes, Ur > Jellal or Jura.

You are comparing 2 different things. When Natsu vs. Ikusa-Tsunagi, Natsu didnt lost any power. He still had his full power and strength. Size doesn't mean anything, Ikusa-Tsunagi was a fodder. Again, Jura could fodderize that Avatar fake god of war. Ikusa-Tsunagi is nothing but fodder.


When Gildartz makes mini Natsu's, its not about size. Natsu is weak cuz his total power is divided among all the tiny Natsu which is why he is weaker. None of the tiny Natsu's have enough magical power to deal any damage. I never said anything about size.

Jellal's Flame of Rebuke was NOT all of his power. It was what he had left. Jellal was on the verge of collapsing. It was just a PoF flame that was created out of emotions and feelings.

Yeah, Silver received a massive power up when he ate Gray's ice. He just didn't use it. He died far too early in the battle to show you his maximum power.

When Natsu ate that tiny flame from Jellal, he was extremely powerful. When Gajeel took a bite of Levy's Iron of Love, he was able to solo the 2 geeks of Grimioire.

So yes, the slayers are made to unleash immense magical power upon eating a little bit of their element.

Why would Ur be stronger than Jellal or Jura? They are actual wizard saints. Jura happens to be the the highest ranking Wizard Saint that's not an Ishgar Heavenly Saint. Ur didn't even make the list whilst she was alive. I don't get how you can praise Ur for having 10 wizard saint status, all the while maintaining that people like Bluenote are fodders. People like Erza were also considered to have power equivalent to the 10 wizard saints. Jellal wanted to use her for the ToH's sacrifice. Jose, another wizard saint, said that if she hadn't taken a hit from Jupiter that she would have been a good opponent.

Natsu didn't waste large amounts of power doing his other attacks either. It simply means it was a relatively effortless attack on his part. Size matters. It's not everything, but it matters. Ikusa-Tsunagi's slash was easily multi-town, and Natsu's demolition fist was easily town-level. Just because you say Ikusa-Tsunagi was fake, that doesn't mean he's not a real god. Ikusa-Tsunagi was very much a real war god. Natsu was simply stronger.

If normal Natsu can blow up a figure the size of Ikusa-Tsunagi, wouldn't mini-Natsu be able to blow-up something the size of a normal human? I'm just scaling Ikusa-Tsunagi's size to these random clones. Natsu can oneshot people like Bluenote with ease. Why wouldn't he be able to oneshot these clones with a punch, even if his power was divided between 10-15 people. How much power do you even need to break a clone? It's not like you actually need to use a full scaled demolition fist to break one. Besides....why would it even matter? I propose to you that Natsu can oneshot ALL of the clones with a single FDK roar.

Silver received a massive power-up when he ate Gray's ice and didn't use it?. I don't buy it. I have nothing but your word to go on. Silver went on to give all his power to Gray. So what? Gray received his massive power-up from himself? That little bit of fire was confirmed by Jellal to contain all of his magical power. It still was something that required all of Jellal's power. You think Ur can match that by some random chunks of ice? I don't think I'm being unfair to team 1 either. If Ur isn't stronger than Gildarts 1v1, then I don't think her power is going to let Gray solo Gildarts and Natsu, especially when Natsu is stronger than Gray 1v1.

 

[Mirage]

Why can't Gildarts one-shot either of them? He's on a whole other level than these 2. He shattered a mountain with one punch, so I'm pretty sure he can shatter Gray and Ur's bodies as well.

 

[Coné]

Natsu and Gildarts win low diff. Mid diff if Gray and Ur actually manage to survive the first attack