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--Zahard
--Prime V
--Urek mazino.
Rank these characters in terms of strength.
--Prime V
--Urek mazino.
Rank these characters in terms of strength.
You think v is stronger than zahard that's ridiculous and even if he was in the past he can't beat the current zahardUrek
V
Zahard
Ridiculous why? V was the main guy of their group.You think v is stronger than zahard that's ridiculous and even if he was in the past he can't beat the current zahard
How was V the main guy at all? He was neither the leader and as you said he died. In the end the big bad of the series is Zahard.Ridiculous why? V was the main guy of their group.
V died and Zahard got stuck into the trash can.
Do we even know if he fought Jahad 1vs1 at any point? We don't. And if they did, what do we know about Jahad at that point? Was he already half-way to becoming some unrecognizable demon from the corrupt power he took on(If indeed he did) ?As far as i can tell between v and zahard it's a cointoss but feel fairly confidn v is weaker than both. If v could defeat zahard he probably would have. His plan with bam probably has a part where he empowers himself further (because he wasn't strong enough in the past)
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What does "leader" have to do with anything? It's like saying Urek isn't a main guy(Even though he clearly is the MC in his own mind and even from his story's perspective) because he isn't the leader of his group, Baek Ryun is. Even Bam isn't the "leader", for some reason he's playing along with Rak being the leader because Rak (the short bus special kid) said so. V in that regard was probably doing the exact same thing. It's obvious they relied on V just like Jahad, but for all we know V just let Jahad play the role of leader because Jahad really did come off as that one kid with special needs that likes to pretend stuff and everyone just plays along, Jahad even dressed like it!How was V the main guy at all? He was neither the leader and as you said he died. In the end the big bad of the series is Zahard.
Prime V is V in his own body, simple as that. Right now, he isn't at his prime because he isn't used to Baam's body but we know Baam's body is compatible.What is "Prime V"? As far as I know everyone would always be in their prime right? You only get stronger as time passes, not weaker, even though siu is trying his hardest to make it look as if Jinsung Ha suddenly hit the wall and is in a downward spiral, again going against his own established in-story lore.
We really have no clue how powerful "Prime V" even was. We can't really go on the "quip" he made about not being sure if he could win against Urek or not. As far as we know he just made all that nonsense up. If he really thought Urek was so much more powerful than he was in his "Prime" then he wouldn't have been so relaxed the whole time, nor would he have initially thought that if he was a bit stronger he could take them both on. His thoughts were "This isn't good. I don't have the strength to fight them both off at once right now." Which could suggest that perhaps he felt he did have that power/strength before(In his 'prime').
How do we even scale this "Prime V" ? I mean we even have people that suggest this:
How does it matter? The thread is about who we think is stronger. Zahard started getting corrupted during Revolution because he made the wrong choice, unlike Baam.Do we even know if he fought Jahad 1vs1 at any point? We don't. And if they did, what do we know about Jahad at that point? Was he already half-way to becoming some unrecognizable demon from the corrupt power he took on(If indeed he did) ?
It wasn't a 11 VS 2 war. V and Arlene left with their sympathizers and again a war isn't as simple as a direct confrontation. We learned that even Zahard's sympathizers were reluctant to kill their former companions early on. It's the only reason Luslec survived.All we do know is that for some reason it ended up with V and Arlene having to fight 11 former friends in a 2 vs 11 war. Not some "1vs1". The argument could just as easily be twisted around to suggest that "If Jahad was really stronger than V then would he really need the help of 10 other irregulars in the war? If he could defeat V on his own He would have defeated V long ago"
Zahard is the leader of the 13 Warriors, he rallied them, he became the king. He is the big bad of the series, a fallen hero. He is the main guy among them. Baam hasn't shown great leadership qualities but he is the MC and their decisions revolve around him. When did Rak ever lead? It's just for comedy and he is boastful that's it. V being someone they found reliable doesn't change the fact that he too, was under Zahard. There is no "playing along" there. We know Zahard was the team leader.What does "leader" have to do with anything? It's like saying Urek isn't a main guy(Even though he clearly is the MC in his own mind and even from his story's perspective) because he isn't the leader of his group, Baek Ryun is. Even Bam isn't the "leader", for some reason he's playing along with Rak being the leader because Rak (the short bus special kid) said so. V in that regard was probably doing the exact same thing. It's obvious they relied on V just like Jahad, but for all we know V just let Jahad play the role of leader because Jahad really did come off as that one kid with special needs that likes to pretend stuff and everyone just plays along, Jahad even dressed like it!
V playing along with Jahad being "king" is no different than Bam playing along with Rak/Khun doing the same thing.
@Demonspeed I do feel like Zahard will not be the big bad, I am sure you read a lot of other mangas/manhwas whatever. V being the final boss is even more possible.How was V the main guy at all? He was neither the leader and as you said he died. In the end the big bad of the series is Zahard.
Yeah, you can imagine this even considering death and injection-revival of baam's later. Current Baam may just kill the false king via Zahard peacefully relinquishing the kingship idea. etc. etc."V and Arlene were leading to our demise, we were at impossible odds against the admin of the following floor, without the chosen one we did not have a chance but they still tried to change this and jeopardized the entire tower's future. By preventing this I, Zahard, secured the tower till the chosen one come, mature, and lead us to the top of the tower."
V's the chosen one, the first to go through revolution and share evolution and revolution with all the tower, the one who people thought should lead the way, the one who assigned roles and defined the lives of his friends.How was V the main guy at all? He was neither the leader and as you said he died. In the end the big bad of the series is Zahard.
It doesn't? He suggest that if V was stronger than Jahad he would have defeated Jahad already, similarly though if Jahad was really more powerful than V then he would have defeated V long ago too. I was just using his own logic there. Instead Jahad resorted to killing an unborn baby. So it absolutely would have mattered if they ever had a 1v1 before. It also absolutely would have mattered in which state Jahad was. We don't know much about Jahad now, but it appears that he gradually lost more of his own humanity as he gained power, you also already admitted he began getting corrupted early already.How does it matter? The thread is about who we think is stronger. Zahard started getting corrupted during Revolution because he made the wrong choice, unlike Baam.
I don't care how they fought the war, the fact remains that the contenders in the war was 2 irregulars(V and Arlene) vs 11 Irregulars(Jahad and his pets), I don't care how t hey fought it on the battled. It does NOT change the FACT that it was 2 vs 11. Just like it doesn't change the FACT that Urek arriving at the sprout and confronting the FHs meant it was turning into a 2 vs 1. Just like it doesn't change the FACT that V going after them meant it was 3vs1 until Luslec at least showed up. Whether they actually fought or not doesn't change those FACTS.It wasn't a 11 VS 2 war. V and Arlene left with their sympathizers and again a war isn't as simple as a direct confrontation. We learned that even Zahard's sympathizers were reluctant to kill their former companions early on. It's the only reason Luslec survived.
Yes, that is what the new history of the tower says. I don't argue against that at all. I care more about the old history as that was the truth that they all hid in order to live their comfortable lie.Zahard is the leader of the 13 Warriors, he rallied them, he became the king. He is the big bad of the series, a fallen hero. He is the main guy among them.
The leadership thing has absolutely nothing to do with it. If this story was about Urek then what? Is he not the MC anymore because Baek Ryun is the leader and Urek is only the vice-leader? We can't even argue that everything that's going in Wolhaiksong "revolves around Urek" since Urek literally only went to the sprout because Baek told him to. It's not like Baek decided to send Urek there because it's what Urek wanted... So the whole "leadership" argument is nonsensical and irrelevant. It doesn't even matter if V was the "leader" or not, as that would have nothing to do with whether he would have been the "MC" in their group or not. From the little we got to see of what could only be "real history", it seemed like more things revolved around V's choices and actions regardless if he was leader or not and that makes him more of an MC than Jahad. No doubt Jahad is the "MC" type of their group after their new alternate history.Baam hasn't shown great leadership qualities but he is the MC and their decisions revolve around him. When did Rak ever lead? It's just for comedy and he is boastful that's it. V being someone they found reliable doesn't change the fact that he too, was under Zahard. There is no "playing along" there. We know Zahard was the team leader.
First you try to make it seem like it doesn't matter whether V fought Jahad 1 vs 1 and now you're making a claim that he lost to Jahad 1 vs 1? How did V fail to Jahad? Did he lose in a 1 v 1 fight or was it more a matter of "Jahad killed an innocent baby, Arlene lost her mind went insane, tried to kill herself multiple times, then V killed himself" without anyone ever fighting? So, how does that prove taht Jahad is more powerful again? They didn't even fight. You yourself are trying to make it look like the war itself was never a full blown "fight" like that, that perhaps the irregulars never even fought each other at all. Isn't that where you were trying to go to argue against my 2vs11 statement? Now suddenly we must just conclude that Jahad fought and defeated V?V isn't going to defeat Zahard(and he failed already), neither will Urek. That's Baam's job. I have no reason to believe that V or Urek are stronger.
It's funny to read that line, especially after the latest free chapter that came out. Everyone going on about V being a "toxic parent" to suggest that THEY(Bam included) want revenge and that it's wrong to speak on Bam's behalf. He doesn't want "revenge" or to fight and/or kill the Family heads and Jahad. Then we get that line...It's Bam's job to defeat Jahad...That's Baam's job.
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I think it all boils down to people not wanting to accept a twist to a story where the "mc" isn't really the "mc". They would feel like they wasted 10+ years of their life trying to like a boring and dull character. I can sympathize with it. I've also had to defend bam's dull personality many times, trying to hype him up, make excuses for it, so I understand it.V's the chosen one, the first to go through revolution and share evolution and revolution with all the tower, the one who people thought should lead the way, the one who assigned roles and defined the lives of his friends.
Also, I'm not even sure If Zahard will be the Big Bad of the series. At least, not until I see where SIU is going with the trash can and Wangnan plot.
Because Baam's been walking V's path, but It does not mean Baam will walk this path forever, as ToG has been showing how people try to go against Its defined fate (even Zahard himself).I think it all boils down to people not wanting to accept a twist to a story where the "mc" isn't really the "mc". They would feel like they wasted 10+ years of their life trying to like a boring and dull character. I can sympathize with it. I've also had to defend bam's dull personality many times, trying to hype him up, make excuses for it, so I understand it.
But unlike those guys, I'm all for it if it turns out the story has always been about "V" and "his" climb to the top and that "Bam" was either nothing more than a vessel, or some fraction of V's "personality/soul" that got "split" from the rest and then awakened before the "V" we know now.
It's weird how people try to argue that Bam now is just a vessel for a "destiny" of "revenge". Where as if V wasn't in him, what would Bam be then? He'll still have to go up and fight the same people and the same King, except mostly for no real reason at all. At least with "V" in the picture we can finally settle for the idea that perhaps there's a "destiny" in play that is far more important than just "mere revenge", even if it turns out that V himself "gave it up" for the sake of that revenge. Because if the story was about him and his climb, then who would he want revenge again? The original "destiny" was then something far cooler than that and not something we get to see with Bam at all.
I think even Siu started to realize that him writing bam as this person that's going to try and "change" the family heads without fighting/killing them is just a plain old stupid idea. It's boring as hell too. I'd rather see an awesome fight between these powerhouses than having to sit through countless chapters of talk-no-jutsu and how bam finally managed the convince 11 of the most corrupt, filthy, disgusting murderous beings in existence that they're all "Good" in the inside and they must all "stop act like bad people".
We only take translations that are helping our case here, so depending if they are pushing my agenda they may or may not be "good translations"...Dont wanna jump into this conversation again but the official scans for the latest TOG chapter shed good light on V's power from both Urek and Gustang's mouths. Maybe it is something to consider for this discussion.
Dont wanna jump into this conversation again but the official scans for the latest TOG chapter shed good light on V's power from both Urek and Gustang's mouths. Maybe it is something to consider for this discussion.