Conditional Irene Belserion vs Jellal, Laxus and Gildarts

Who wins???


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Rigel

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Irene takes the magic power from each of them. And for Laxus, she removes her lacrima. End of the game.
 

sharkai

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ofc but you cannot explain that to some people :-_-
I guess it get over shadowed by butter knife easily going through August and a wooden stick going through gildarts
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Irene wins first round. Could be high diff win though

Irene stomps in second round. No one has shown any power near dues sema so injuring irene dragon form will nigh impossible
 
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Ramen

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After looking at Irene again,

She wins Rd 2

Not sure for Rd 1 but Ill give it to her
 
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Jko

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.............

Erza budged her without DS.
After Wendy hit her. She didn't even flinch when Erza placed a sword strike on her dome while she was defenseless.
 

Jean Grey

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I guess it get over shadowed by butter knife easily going through August and a wooden stick going through gildarts
what does August has to do with this 😅

After Wendy hit her. She didn't even flinch when Erza placed a sword strike on her dome while she was defenseless.



 
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Kurumi Tokisaki

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By the way, can Irene remove Laxus's Lacrima out of him as she did against Nebal with her separation enchant? She pretty much did it instantly. If she can then can beat all three of them in her dragon form without worrying about Laxus provided Jellal is not in his God Mode.
 

Crimson Ice

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By the way, can Irene remove Laxus's Lacrima out of him as she did against Nebal with her separation enchant? She pretty much did it instantly. If she can then can beat all three of them in her dragon form without worrying about Laxus provided Jellal is not in his God Mode.
Jellal is the weakest person in this match 😂
 

Ebony Maw

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Boys murderstomp in Round 1

Round 2 is a stomp too, Laxus is the main hitter and Jellal + Gildarts provide any support that's needed.
________________________________________________________________________________________

This is going to be my last 'full' reply since its looking like we're not going to convince each other. That said I may reply on one or two points. I'll try and kep this concise.
  • Not by Skullion's statement. DF Nebal > than them. He thought Nebal could take out a powerful enemy. Not someone of Lucy or Wendy tier.
And Skullion was completely wrong. This is the same Skullion that thought he. Kyria and Madmole could handle Dragon Gods.

Also, as I asked before and you never answered, why are you taking Skullion's word as gospel when you fervently refuse to accept August's statement that Laxus would have one-shot killed Ajeel? Its hypocritical.
  • Kiria never oneshotted DF Wendy. Check the chapter again as Wendy never got oneshotted out of DF as she wasn't even in DF at the time of the hit. We see her literally cover Erza's body in base lol.




So we have:

1) Wendy in DF going to attack Kyria
2) Kyria dodging, with Wendy still in DF
3) Gag moment where Wendy is drawn in base
4) Kyria's Roar cutting her up
5) Base Wendy KO'd over Erza

If I'm to believe you, then DF Wendy decided to immediately revert in to base after one attack was dodged to make a "SmAlL bOoBs fUnNy" moment and then got cut up? Personally I don't buy that because Wendy would have to be an idiot to do that. Even if you want to go the extra mile and say she reverted because she thought Lucy could handle it, that's still stupid for two reasons:

1) Its Lucy up against someone Wendy just saw tear straight through one of her strongest attacks (Aqua Metria)
2) Kyria is a Dragon Slayer and all of the Slayers have Roars, Wendy not expecting her to use it and instead reverting to base would be dumb as hell
  • The war was a mess of PL which is why it went down in history as the worse arc in history of FT. Spriggan would stomp the crap out of current FT and Gray got saved by one from miles away and on a vacation lmao. There power is still relevant.
War was a wreck but its canon. Spriggans clearly can't wreck FT lmao since whenever a FT high tier member got serious or bloodlusted they instantly stomped their opponent.

The only ones that don't fit this is are August, Irene and Larcade. Even with that being said, Irene was getting a severe challenge from Erza and Wendy. and Larcade got downed by WSD Rough Silk.

Brandish is a weird one because she somehow managed to stop Gray from turning to ash (tbh that made no sense, why would shrinking him stop the ash conversion?). I want to see more feats from Brandish because she might also be an exception

Overall though the Spriggans are trash, especially considering their hype. Wahl was getting dominated for most of his fight against a terminally ill Laxus and only got major hits on him because he started having MBP-related fits. Neinhart got one-shotted by Grand Chariot and then two-hit KO'd by nameless punches from base Natsu. Bradman's attacks couldn't even put down Levy. Ajeel got beat by Elfman and Lisanna and only had such an easy time with Erza because he was intangible and his Sand World eliminated any counter Erza had to him. Invel got stomped once Gray got pissed. Jacob without Transport couldn't put down Lucy.

DiMaria is also a weird one. Word of God says Age Seal traps everyone who isn't E.N.D. Personally I disagree with this and tend to leave that out in my power rankings (since DiMaria should be above Larcade and on-par with August/Irene if this is true). To me its just Hiro making stupid fucking statements like he made Alvarez such a stupid fucking arc.

So for me - aside from August/Irene/Larcade/Brandish* - the Spriggans have been outclassed.

* (Even then the jury is out on Brandish. Skullion would have outright one-shot killed Gray so I find it hard to rank her among the DE's, especially since Gray wasn't even aware of her presence and we know power can surpass her hax due to Enhanced Neinhart being completely unaffected)
  • Ajeel is not an insect and Elf has shown to hit harder than a Demo-fist as he actually hurt Madmole. Natsu also opted cook whereas Elfman hurt him with punches. A serious Ajeel was capable of stomping a serious Erza while Laxus could not. Let's not forget his AoE eclipses anything in both of their arsenals as well.
Dude, at least refute my claim properly. I said Ajeel was an insect compared to Laxus, and he is since August thought Laxus would have killed him with a nameless nuke.

And no, just stop with this ridiculous claim of Elfman hitting harder than FDK Demo Fist. His feat against Madmole is a complete outlier. There's nothing to suggest he has ever had an attack that rivalled one of Natsu's finishers. And don't even bother raising his fight with Ajeel, using an off-panel fight to justify an off-panel fight is dumb as hell.

Oh, and also stop trying to make it sound like Ajeel and 100YQ Laxus faced the same Erza. Erza in 100YQ has obviously improved, much like Laxus has. You're also ignoring the fact that Ajeel's intangibility meant she could only use her Water and Wind swords, which Sand World rendered useless. In comparison Laxus fought a stronger version of Erza, tanked multiple attacks from her and she was the one to go down first (whether it was a tie or not doesn't matter, Erza went down first). Keep in mind Laxus had already had a skirmish with Kyria before this and used a Secret Art on her, so Erza was the fresher combatant at the start of their fight. At worst that hints Laxus is slightly stronger, at best it hints he's fairly stronger because Kyria was capable of giving Erza a good fight.

Ajeel's AoE of Sand World only matters if he doesn't get one-shot by his opponent immediately. And considering what happened with Laxus and Ajeel the last time they met...
  • Irene removed them into being as that what separation enchant does. She killed the Dragon side of Nebal which is why she called him a dead wizard.
That doesn't make any sense. All she did was detach the Magic. Irene herself makes no mention that she damaged Nebel or killed a Dragon:
There was no Dragon to kill, once she removed Nebel's Magic the Dragonisation just reverted because the Seed disappeared.
  • Irene's High Enchant can do everything Wendy's enchant can do and that is not just restricted to blades either. Irene > Wendy > Erza in enchant.
I wasn't arguing differently, I'm saying that so far Erza's Enchanted swords have had the best in-combat feats.

Irene: Couldn't put down Wendy or Erza despite it looking like a powerful blast
Body swapping is pretty cool but its highly restricted since Irene implied she could only do it with Wendy because she was both a Dragon Slayer and an Enchanter - meaning its a move that as of right now can only be used on Wendy.

Wendy: I can't actually remember her using Enchant offensively since she usually uses her Sky Dragon Slaying Magic for that, but I suppose she should get some credit for Enchanting the sword that damaged Dragon Irene severely enough for Irene to immediately revert to her Human form

Erza: Enchanted swords damaged Laxus

Considering Laxus is incredibly tanky himself, Erza's DeS/DS swords are definitely the best offensive use of Enchant (unless I'm forgetting something).
  • The fact that Erza magical power can only produce noob high enchant level spells further reinforces that PoF Alvarez Erza is way above Current Erza.
Its a good thing Irene only faced POF Erza after Deus Sema was called in.

For the rest of their fight Irene was getting challenged by Enchanted Erza and was clearly struggling until she took over Wendy's body, at which point Erza wouldn't attack her. Once Irene was back in her body, she began having trouble again and transformed into her Dragon form.
  • Irene never tried to put down Wendy in the fight. Irene never even fought Wendy until Wendy went into Irene's body.
She tried it once and failed. Wendy was only incapacitated when Irene attacked her while she possessed her body.
  • Irene can fly lmao. She won't sit there unless Natsu is her kid and Alvarez plot induced stupidity is on. Now show me these guys being able to sit there and take a slash to the neck through the torso from Erza. Erza could actually kill Laxus in one hit if she was blood bloodlusted as Laxus can't tank a sword strike to the head or neck.
Natsu can just aim his attacks towards the sky then? Both Laxus and Natsu have AoE big enough to hit her, Laxus did this with a nameless spell:

And I've already show you scans of Natsu's DF/FDK spells.

Both of them should catch Irene in their spells' AoE with ease.

And they don't need to stand there and tank a slash from Erza, they're fighting Irene, not Erza. As long as they can take attacks that failed to put down Wendy and Erza they should be fine and dandy.
  • Irene strips Wall of his magic. Now show me one feat of Laxus that can overpower Etherion?
I don't really get the purpose of this point but...

1) You have no proof she can do that, Nebel was running straight at them and made no attempt to move out of the way. Someone as fast as Laxus should be able to evade it, and I have no idea why you're saying she could do that to Wahl when Laxus is faster than him and Wahl isn't who she's fighting

2) Laxus doesn't need to overpower Etherion, Wahl only brought it out when Laxus collapsed due to an MBP-related fit and the time it needed to charge was slow enough for Laxus to create a Jutsu Shiki barrier. Wahl can't just whip it out and use it quickly, otherwise he would have done it sooner since Assault Mode Wahl was focused on terminating him.
  • Dragon Slaying sword > Dragon Slaying punch. Piercing and Slashing attacks cause far more damage than blunt attacks. Plus PoF Erza >>>>> Current Erza. Check between her DG and Acno feats.
Her feat against Dragon Acnologia wasn't POF, Acno got pushed by Christina, Meteor Jellal and (IIRC) Tenrou Makarov. Her entire armoury being able to force Acnologia down isn't surprising at all, he evaded Christina's bullets for Christ's sake. And Erza did that to a mindless Acno that was just following Magic.

Feats that you don't like ≠ POF

As for the point about slashing/stabbing/piercing being more effective than punches, Slayer advantage should more than make up for it.

Besides, we're talking about a strike from broken bones Erza with a sword Enchanted by a crippled Wendy vs all out punches from DF/FDK Natsu and Laxus. Hell, the attacks they throw might not even be punches, Laxus could use Red Lightning or Heavenward Halberd, and Natsu could just as easily use an FDK Roar.

And I think we can both agree that the aforementioned attacks would grievously injure both Human and Dragon forms of Irene.
  • No, they aren't. Laxus was blitzed by Erza lmfao and DF Natsu only goes for one hit finisher now. Both are easy to dodge for a girl who can traverse the country with ease. Jellal never blitzed Acno lol. He was never surprised once in that fight and Acno was toying so badly that he got out sped by Christina and couldn't react to the hit from the ship either. Jellal's feats are as about as good as Makarov's feats lmao.
Once again you're ignoring the fact that Erza has clearly improved since Alvarez. And DF Natsu only going for finishers means fuck all when Irene has nothing to say she can avoid the AoE of his attack.

Also where the actual hell are you getting Irene traversing a country with ease? If you're talking about her clash with Acno on Mount Zonia, Acno flew to her. And if you're talking about her getting to Mira, the country was compressed to 1/20th of its original size and we have no idea where she came from, though it would make sense if she came from nearby considering how close Mount Zonia is to where the Northern battleground was. Regardless she's never shown that speed in combat anyway so there's no reason to factor it in.

Jellal did blitz Acno:
Acno was still looking at the trail of Meteor when Jellal hit him. He also surprised and pushed him back in human form:


"jElLaL'S fEaTs aRe aS aBoUt As GoOd As mAkArOv's fEaTs lMaO"

Bruh, I know you like to downplay Jellal but its not even getting irritating anymore, its just funny. What Jellal did was comparable to Irene's feats.
 

grey matter

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Boys murderstomp in Round 1

Round 2 is a stomp too, Laxus is the main hitter and Jellal + Gildarts provide any support that's needed.
________________________________________________________________________________________

This is going to be my last 'full' reply since its looking like we're not going to convince each other. That said I may reply on one or two points. I'll try and kep this concise.

And Skullion was completely wrong. This is the same Skullion that thought he. Kyria and Madmole could handle Dragon Gods.

Also, as I asked before and you never answered, why are you taking Skullion's word as gospel when you fervently refuse to accept August's statement that Laxus would have one-shot killed Ajeel? Its hypocritical.





So we have:

1) Wendy in DF going to attack Kyria
2) Kyria dodging, with Wendy still in DF
3) Gag moment where Wendy is drawn in base
4) Kyria's Roar cutting her up
5) Base Wendy KO'd over Erza

If I'm to believe you, then DF Wendy decided to immediately revert in to base after one attack was dodged to make a "SmAlL bOoBs fUnNy" moment and then got cut up? Personally I don't buy that because Wendy would have to be an idiot to do that. Even if you want to go the extra mile and say she reverted because she thought Lucy could handle it, that's still stupid for two reasons:

1) Its Lucy up against someone Wendy just saw tear straight through one of her strongest attacks (Aqua Metria)
2) Kyria is a Dragon Slayer and all of the Slayers have Roars, Wendy not expecting her to use it and instead reverting to base would be dumb as hell

War was a wreck but its canon. Spriggans clearly can't wreck FT lmao since whenever a FT high tier member got serious or bloodlusted they instantly stomped their opponent.

The only ones that don't fit this is are August, Irene and Larcade. Even with that being said, Irene was getting a severe challenge from Erza and Wendy. and Larcade got downed by WSD Rough Silk.

Brandish is a weird one because she somehow managed to stop Gray from turning to ash (tbh that made no sense, why would shrinking him stop the ash conversion?). I want to see more feats from Brandish because she might also be an exception

Overall though the Spriggans are trash, especially considering their hype. Wahl was getting dominated for most of his fight against a terminally ill Laxus and only got major hits on him because he started having MBP-related fits. Neinhart got one-shotted by Grand Chariot and then two-hit KO'd by nameless punches from base Natsu. Bradman's attacks couldn't even put down Levy. Ajeel got beat by Elfman and Lisanna and only had such an easy time with Erza because he was intangible and his Sand World eliminated any counter Erza had to him. Invel got stomped once Gray got pissed. Jacob without Transport couldn't put down Lucy.

DiMaria is also a weird one. Word of God says Age Seal traps everyone who isn't E.N.D. Personally I disagree with this and tend to leave that out in my power rankings (since DiMaria should be above Larcade and on-par with August/Irene if this is true). To me its just Hiro making stupid fucking statements like he made Alvarez such a stupid fucking arc.

So for me - aside from August/Irene/Larcade/Brandish* - the Spriggans have been outclassed.

* (Even then the jury is out on Brandish. Skullion would have outright one-shot killed Gray so I find it hard to rank her among the DE's, especially since Gray wasn't even aware of her presence and we know power can surpass her hax due to Enhanced Neinhart being completely unaffected)

Dude, at least refute my claim properly. I said Ajeel was an insect compared to Laxus, and he is since August thought Laxus would have killed him with a nameless nuke.

And no, just stop with this ridiculous claim of Elfman hitting harder than FDK Demo Fist. His feat against Madmole is a complete outlier. There's nothing to suggest he has ever had an attack that rivalled one of Natsu's finishers. And don't even bother raising his fight with Ajeel, using an off-panel fight to justify an off-panel fight is dumb as hell.

Oh, and also stop trying to make it sound like Ajeel and 100YQ Laxus faced the same Erza. Erza in 100YQ has obviously improved, much like Laxus has. You're also ignoring the fact that Ajeel's intangibility meant she could only use her Water and Wind swords, which Sand World rendered useless. In comparison Laxus fought a stronger version of Erza, tanked multiple attacks from her and she was the one to go down first (whether it was a tie or not doesn't matter, Erza went down first). Keep in mind Laxus had already had a skirmish with Kyria before this and used a Secret Art on her, so Erza was the fresher combatant at the start of their fight. At worst that hints Laxus is slightly stronger, at best it hints he's fairly stronger because Kyria was capable of giving Erza a good fight.

Ajeel's AoE of Sand World only matters if he doesn't get one-shot by his opponent immediately. And considering what happened with Laxus and Ajeel the last time they met...

That doesn't make any sense. All she did was detach the Magic. Irene herself makes no mention that she damaged Nebel or killed a Dragon:
There was no Dragon to kill, once she removed Nebel's Magic the Dragonisation just reverted because the Seed disappeared.

I wasn't arguing differently, I'm saying that so far Erza's Enchanted swords have had the best in-combat feats.

Irene: Couldn't put down Wendy or Erza despite it looking like a powerful blast
Body swapping is pretty cool but its highly restricted since Irene implied she could only do it with Wendy because she was both a Dragon Slayer and an Enchanter - meaning its a move that as of right now can only be used on Wendy.

Wendy: I can't actually remember her using Enchant offensively since she usually uses her Sky Dragon Slaying Magic for that, but I suppose she should get some credit for Enchanting the sword that damaged Dragon Irene severely enough for Irene to immediately revert to her Human form

Erza: Enchanted swords damaged Laxus

Considering Laxus is incredibly tanky himself, Erza's DeS/DS swords are definitely the best offensive use of Enchant (unless I'm forgetting something).

Its a good thing Irene only faced POF Erza after Deus Sema was called in.

For the rest of their fight Irene was getting challenged by Enchanted Erza and was clearly struggling until she took over Wendy's body, at which point Erza wouldn't attack her. Once Irene was back in her body, she began having trouble again and transformed into her Dragon form.

She tried it once and failed. Wendy was only incapacitated when Irene attacked her while she possessed her body.

Natsu can just aim his attacks towards the sky then? Both Laxus and Natsu have AoE big enough to hit her, Laxus did this with a nameless spell:

And I've already show you scans of Natsu's DF/FDK spells.

Both of them should catch Irene in their spells' AoE with ease.

And they don't need to stand there and tank a slash from Erza, they're fighting Irene, not Erza. As long as they can take attacks that failed to put down Wendy and Erza they should be fine and dandy.

I don't really get the purpose of this point but...

1) You have no proof she can do that, Nebel was running straight at them and made no attempt to move out of the way. Someone as fast as Laxus should be able to evade it, and I have no idea why you're saying she could do that to Wahl when Laxus is faster than him and Wahl isn't who she's fighting

2) Laxus doesn't need to overpower Etherion, Wahl only brought it out when Laxus collapsed due to an MBP-related fit and the time it needed to charge was slow enough for Laxus to create a Jutsu Shiki barrier. Wahl can't just whip it out and use it quickly, otherwise he would have done it sooner since Assault Mode Wahl was focused on terminating him.

Her feat against Dragon Acnologia wasn't POF, Acno got pushed by Christina, Meteor Jellal and (IIRC) Tenrou Makarov. Her entire armoury being able to force Acnologia down isn't surprising at all, he evaded Christina's bullets for Christ's sake. And Erza did that to a mindless Acno that was just following Magic.

Feats that you don't like ≠ POF

As for the point about slashing/stabbing/piercing being more effective than punches, Slayer advantage should more than make up for it.

Besides, we're talking about a strike from broken bones Erza with a sword Enchanted by a crippled Wendy vs all out punches from DF/FDK Natsu and Laxus. Hell, the attacks they throw might not even be punches, Laxus could use Red Lightning or Heavenward Halberd, and Natsu could just as easily use an FDK Roar.

And I think we can both agree that the aforementioned attacks would grievously injure both Human and Dragon forms of Irene.

Once again you're ignoring the fact that Erza has clearly improved since Alvarez. And DF Natsu only going for finishers means fuck all when Irene has nothing to say she can avoid the AoE of his attack.

Also where the actual hell are you getting Irene traversing a country with ease? If you're talking about her clash with Acno on Mount Zonia, Acno flew to her. And if you're talking about her getting to Mira, the country was compressed to 1/20th of its original size and we have no idea where she came from, though it would make sense if she came from nearby considering how close Mount Zonia is to where the Northern battleground was. Regardless she's never shown that speed in combat anyway so there's no reason to factor it in.

Jellal did blitz Acno:
Acno was still looking at the trail of Meteor when Jellal hit him. He also surprised and pushed him back in human form:


"jElLaL'S fEaTs aRe aS aBoUt As GoOd As mAkArOv's fEaTs lMaO"

Bruh, I know you like to downplay Jellal but its not even getting irritating anymore, its just funny. What Jellal did was comparable to Irene's feats.
Broadly, I agree.
Except for Spriggans being 'power-crept'. And still downplaying God Serena, I see :-_- :pwnge
I'll discuss that with you later lol.


Jellal's feats are BETTER than Eileen's for reasons:
- He blocked Acno's spell using energy shield/seal instead of dodging Acno's attack.
- He pushed back human Acno the same way Eileen did push back human Acno
- Jellal made Acnologia eat his grand chariot
- Eileen dodged a single attack that created a hole in the ground, Jellal dodged a roar that was continuously aimed at him, which split apart the ocean.
- Jellal blitzed Dragon Acno
- Jellal made Dragon Acno eat his magic
- Jellal pushed back Dragon Acno to a significant distance on air (to very close to the rift), he wouldn't have been even caught by casual Dragon Acno if he wasn't hell bent on stayed at the same relative position and getting Acno to the time rift.

What does it say about Eileen when 'fodder' Jellal did this, lmao.

Only two options are really here:
- Serena and August are fodder in reaction speed compared to Jellal and Eileen
- Acno was serious against Serena because he's a DS and went for the kill. He didn't care about whether Eileen (didn't realize she was a DS) or Jellal lived or not, and hence just played along. (In the end, he caught Jellal only because he was a nuisance and pushing him to time singularity; and even then didn't tear him into pieces like he would for Serena or DS, was just crushing him still playing around)

I'd think that option 2 is obvious to anyone lol, but apparently not.
 

Jko

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Boys murderstomp in Round 1

Round 2 is a stomp too, Laxus is the main hitter and Jellal + Gildarts provide any support that's needed.
________________________________________________________________________________________

This is going to be my last 'full' reply since its looking like we're not going to convince each other. That said I may reply on one or two points. I'll try and kep this concise.

And Skullion was completely wrong. This is the same Skullion that thought he. Kyria and Madmole could handle Dragon Gods.

Also, as I asked before and you never answered, why are you taking Skullion's word as gospel when you fervently refuse to accept August's statement that Laxus would have one-shot killed Ajeel? Its hypocritical.





So we have:

1) Wendy in DF going to attack Kyria
2) Kyria dodging, with Wendy still in DF
3) Gag moment where Wendy is drawn in base
4) Kyria's Roar cutting her up
5) Base Wendy KO'd over Erza

If I'm to believe you, then DF Wendy decided to immediately revert in to base after one attack was dodged to make a "SmAlL bOoBs fUnNy" moment and then got cut up? Personally I don't buy that because Wendy would have to be an idiot to do that. Even if you want to go the extra mile and say she reverted because she thought Lucy could handle it, that's still stupid for two reasons:

1) Its Lucy up against someone Wendy just saw tear straight through one of her strongest attacks (Aqua Metria)
2) Kyria is a Dragon Slayer and all of the Slayers have Roars, Wendy not expecting her to use it and instead reverting to base would be dumb as hell

War was a wreck but its canon. Spriggans clearly can't wreck FT lmao since whenever a FT high tier member got serious or bloodlusted they instantly stomped their opponent.

The only ones that don't fit this is are August, Irene and Larcade. Even with that being said, Irene was getting a severe challenge from Erza and Wendy. and Larcade got downed by WSD Rough Silk.

Brandish is a weird one because she somehow managed to stop Gray from turning to ash (tbh that made no sense, why would shrinking him stop the ash conversion?). I want to see more feats from Brandish because she might also be an exception

Overall though the Spriggans are trash, especially considering their hype. Wahl was getting dominated for most of his fight against a terminally ill Laxus and only got major hits on him because he started having MBP-related fits. Neinhart got one-shotted by Grand Chariot and then two-hit KO'd by nameless punches from base Natsu. Bradman's attacks couldn't even put down Levy. Ajeel got beat by Elfman and Lisanna and only had such an easy time with Erza because he was intangible and his Sand World eliminated any counter Erza had to him. Invel got stomped once Gray got pissed. Jacob without Transport couldn't put down Lucy.

DiMaria is also a weird one. Word of God says Age Seal traps everyone who isn't E.N.D. Personally I disagree with this and tend to leave that out in my power rankings (since DiMaria should be above Larcade and on-par with August/Irene if this is true). To me its just Hiro making stupid fucking statements like he made Alvarez such a stupid fucking arc.

So for me - aside from August/Irene/Larcade/Brandish* - the Spriggans have been outclassed.

* (Even then the jury is out on Brandish. Skullion would have outright one-shot killed Gray so I find it hard to rank her among the DE's, especially since Gray wasn't even aware of her presence and we know power can surpass her hax due to Enhanced Neinhart being completely unaffected)

Dude, at least refute my claim properly. I said Ajeel was an insect compared to Laxus, and he is since August thought Laxus would have killed him with a nameless nuke.

And no, just stop with this ridiculous claim of Elfman hitting harder than FDK Demo Fist. His feat against Madmole is a complete outlier. There's nothing to suggest he has ever had an attack that rivalled one of Natsu's finishers. And don't even bother raising his fight with Ajeel, using an off-panel fight to justify an off-panel fight is dumb as hell.

Oh, and also stop trying to make it sound like Ajeel and 100YQ Laxus faced the same Erza. Erza in 100YQ has obviously improved, much like Laxus has. You're also ignoring the fact that Ajeel's intangibility meant she could only use her Water and Wind swords, which Sand World rendered useless. In comparison Laxus fought a stronger version of Erza, tanked multiple attacks from her and she was the one to go down first (whether it was a tie or not doesn't matter, Erza went down first). Keep in mind Laxus had already had a skirmish with Kyria before this and used a Secret Art on her, so Erza was the fresher combatant at the start of their fight. At worst that hints Laxus is slightly stronger, at best it hints he's fairly stronger because Kyria was capable of giving Erza a good fight.

Ajeel's AoE of Sand World only matters if he doesn't get one-shot by his opponent immediately. And considering what happened with Laxus and Ajeel the last time they met...

That doesn't make any sense. All she did was detach the Magic. Irene herself makes no mention that she damaged Nebel or killed a Dragon:
There was no Dragon to kill, once she removed Nebel's Magic the Dragonisation just reverted because the Seed disappeared.

I wasn't arguing differently, I'm saying that so far Erza's Enchanted swords have had the best in-combat feats.

Irene: Couldn't put down Wendy or Erza despite it looking like a powerful blast
Body swapping is pretty cool but its highly restricted since Irene implied she could only do it with Wendy because she was both a Dragon Slayer and an Enchanter - meaning its a move that as of right now can only be used on Wendy.

Wendy: I can't actually remember her using Enchant offensively since she usually uses her Sky Dragon Slaying Magic for that, but I suppose she should get some credit for Enchanting the sword that damaged Dragon Irene severely enough for Irene to immediately revert to her Human form

Erza: Enchanted swords damaged Laxus

Considering Laxus is incredibly tanky himself, Erza's DeS/DS swords are definitely the best offensive use of Enchant (unless I'm forgetting something).

Its a good thing Irene only faced POF Erza after Deus Sema was called in.

For the rest of their fight Irene was getting challenged by Enchanted Erza and was clearly struggling until she took over Wendy's body, at which point Erza wouldn't attack her. Once Irene was back in her body, she began having trouble again and transformed into her Dragon form.

She tried it once and failed. Wendy was only incapacitated when Irene attacked her while she possessed her body.

Natsu can just aim his attacks towards the sky then? Both Laxus and Natsu have AoE big enough to hit her, Laxus did this with a nameless spell:

And I've already show you scans of Natsu's DF/FDK spells.

Both of them should catch Irene in their spells' AoE with ease.

And they don't need to stand there and tank a slash from Erza, they're fighting Irene, not Erza. As long as they can take attacks that failed to put down Wendy and Erza they should be fine and dandy.

I don't really get the purpose of this point but...

1) You have no proof she can do that, Nebel was running straight at them and made no attempt to move out of the way. Someone as fast as Laxus should be able to evade it, and I have no idea why you're saying she could do that to Wahl when Laxus is faster than him and Wahl isn't who she's fighting

2) Laxus doesn't need to overpower Etherion, Wahl only brought it out when Laxus collapsed due to an MBP-related fit and the time it needed to charge was slow enough for Laxus to create a Jutsu Shiki barrier. Wahl can't just whip it out and use it quickly, otherwise he would have done it sooner since Assault Mode Wahl was focused on terminating him.

Her feat against Dragon Acnologia wasn't POF, Acno got pushed by Christina, Meteor Jellal and (IIRC) Tenrou Makarov. Her entire armoury being able to force Acnologia down isn't surprising at all, he evaded Christina's bullets for Christ's sake. And Erza did that to a mindless Acno that was just following Magic.

Feats that you don't like ≠ POF

As for the point about slashing/stabbing/piercing being more effective than punches, Slayer advantage should more than make up for it.

Besides, we're talking about a strike from broken bones Erza with a sword Enchanted by a crippled Wendy vs all out punches from DF/FDK Natsu and Laxus. Hell, the attacks they throw might not even be punches, Laxus could use Red Lightning or Heavenward Halberd, and Natsu could just as easily use an FDK Roar.

And I think we can both agree that the aforementioned attacks would grievously injure both Human and Dragon forms of Irene.

Once again you're ignoring the fact that Erza has clearly improved since Alvarez. And DF Natsu only going for finishers means fuck all when Irene has nothing to say she can avoid the AoE of his attack.

Also where the actual hell are you getting Irene traversing a country with ease? If you're talking about her clash with Acno on Mount Zonia, Acno flew to her. And if you're talking about her getting to Mira, the country was compressed to 1/20th of its original size and we have no idea where she came from, though it would make sense if she came from nearby considering how close Mount Zonia is to where the Northern battleground was. Regardless she's never shown that speed in combat anyway so there's no reason to factor it in.

Jellal did blitz Acno:
Acno was still looking at the trail of Meteor when Jellal hit him. He also surprised and pushed him back in human form:


"jElLaL'S fEaTs aRe aS aBoUt As GoOd As mAkArOv's fEaTs lMaO"

Bruh, I know you like to downplay Jellal but its not even getting irritating anymore, its just funny. What Jellal did was comparable to Irene's feats.
Skullion's statement has yet to be contradicted.

Etherion wasn't slow at all. He literally did it in two panels, but to stop to monologue lol. Laxus would have been killed if he dropped that while Irene wouldn't.

Wendy wasn't in DF bcs we see her in base before she was hit and in base as she is getting attack. She only goes out of DF when she gets KOed and that happens after an attack and not in the middle of one as shown in pretty much every fight with a person who's transformed. The no DF was on her was intentional as FT bar Gray jobbed in that fight.

RoT Acno was never pushed down by anything and was straight up tanking ever single attack thrown by him. He only dodged bullets for fun as well as it was already stated non magical weaponry like a sword won't work either.

No, it was PoF as Erza could not even budge a half powered God tier. It's clear as day PoF feats from Alvarez are outliers. It doesn't matter if she got stronger as her PoF feats are still far better.

That blast didn't even hit them lol. There's like nothing but the backlash of an attack that's kicking up some wind.

Yes bcs Makarov blitzed Acno on Tenrou and stop his rampage. Bcs Christina blitzed Acno in Alvarez. Base Erza and BSS Mira were capable of dodging him. Bcs Laxus blitzed RoT Acno as well. Stop, no one in this series is capable of blitzing Acnologia. Do you see him in shock of anything? He didn't even try to block the attack once and literally looked at him with a bored as face lol.

No, they weren't as he wasn't even acknowledge by Acno. Fighting an Acno that acknowledges your power >>> than one who doesn't give an f about you. So yes his feats are only as good as Makarov as that's the level of seriousness Acno placed in the fight. Oh look Tenrou FT dodging Acno and Makarov stopping him mid blitz. I guess Makarov is a good as Irene.
Oh wait Makarov's was better since he was injured lol.

Stop. The reason Irene's was better is bcs Irene faced an Acno that actually acknowledged her power not one that didn't give a crap about her and only chased them for Wendy lol.
Acnologia that attacked Jellal wasn't even fighting like the one who blitzed and killed Serena. So like I said Jellal's feats are not near Irene's against Acno.

No the downplay of Irene is hilarious at this point. Laxus oneshotting her is the height of downplay when he couldn't even oneshot Kiria.

@Ebony Maw sorry if my post is dysfunctional or looking like it chopped some of yours off. I just went with I thought was worth noting. This is my last reply to this debate as well.

----------------
Jellal and Gild are non factors as they don't have DS magic and she strips Laxus of his DS magic just to toy with them before she kills them.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

what does August has to do with this 😅





I was talking about her getting hurt.

Yep that's the one. See she wasn't hurt lol. Anyone (bar obviously a dragon or immortal) else would have died not defending against that attack.

The blood she has in her human transformation is fake as we see her untouched in her natural form.

Erza hit her right in the wound she just inflicted.
 

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I was talking about her getting hurt.

Yep that's the one. See she wasn't hurt lol. Anyone (bar obviously a dragon or immortal) else would have died not defending against that attack.

The blood she has in her human transformation is fake as we see her untouched in her natural form.

Erza hit her right in the wound she just inflicted.
that just means her damage in human form doesn't translate to dragon form.

when she was knocked out of her dragon form, she still had the same injuries she suffered in her human form


human form is NOT = Dragon form.

Erza hit her below forehead with her head while her sword hit her on top of her head as she sliced her hat in half.
 

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that just means her damage in human form doesn't translate to dragon form.

when she was knocked out of her dragon form, she still had the same injuries she suffered in her human form


human form is NOT = Dragon form.

Erza hit her below forehead with her head while her sword hit her on top of her head as she sliced her hat in half.
But her Dragon form damage transferred to her human form so that means her Dragon form is her real form and the human form is the transformation otherwise the damage she took to her human form should have transferred over to the Dragon form.

What?
 

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But her Dragon form damage transferred to her human form so that means her Dragon form is her real form and the human form is the transformation otherwise the damage she took to her human form should have transferred over to the Dragon form.
point is, she can suffer damage in her human form and can feel pain and I'm pretty sure Hiro didn't thought about it. also, her dragon scales may cover her wounds that she suffered in human form so they don't show in dragon form (for example, when Frieza transformed into his 4th form, he had no injuries but his natural form is his first form)

her human is not = dragon like you're trying to claim.

in fact, Irene wouldn't even need to transform into a dragon then.
 

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point is, she can suffer damage in her human form and can feel pain and I'm pretty sure Hiro didn't thought about it. also, her dragon scales may cover her wounds that she suffered in human form so they don't show in dragon form (for example, when Frieza transformed into his 4th form, he had no injuries but his natural form is his first form)

her human is not = dragon like you're trying to claim.

in fact, Irene wouldn't even need to transform into a dragon then.
Only time she was really hurt was when Wendy was damaging her. We saw her take Erza's sword to head without even a budge.

Yeah, but as you said Frieza's natural form is his first form. Irene would be reverting back to her natural form as a Dragon once she undoes the transformation spell.

There's a magical power decrease and stat decrease, but her durability is not going lower than the point of an actual Dragon is what I'm saying. Makes no sense that she loses her Dragon scales bcs with a fake transformation that doesn't even turn them human. She also wouldn't be able to take a sword strike to the forward head without defending unless she was a dragon as no human in this verse is capable of no selling a sword to the face while defenseless.

That would also mean Acno doesn't get his scales in human form either which would make less sense.
 

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But her Dragon form damage transferred to her human form so that means her Dragon form is her real form and the human form is the transformation otherwise the damage she took to her human form should have transferred over to the Dragon form.

What?
Are you serious ?



What kind of dragon gets killed by a metal sword lol ? If you're implying human form is just a cover which means her durability of a dragon should be still there. So you're basically implying her dragon scales are so weak that they get pierced by a metal sword lol.

Human Irene and Dragon Irene are obviously not the same.
 

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Are you serious ?



What kind of dragon gets killed by a metal sword lol ? If you're implying human form is just a cover which means her durability of a dragon should be still there. So you're basically implying her dragon scales are so weak that they get pierced by a metal sword lol.

Human Irene and Dragon Irene are obviously not the same.
That sword was the same sword imbued with DS magic.
 

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Only time she was really hurt was when Wendy was damaging her. We saw her take Erza's sword to head without even a budge.

Yeah, but as you said Frieza's natural form is his first form. Irene would be reverting back to her natural form as a Dragon once she undoes the transformation spell.

There's a magical power decrease and stat decrease, but her durability is not going lower than the point of an actual Dragon is what I'm saying. Makes no sense that she loses her Dragon scales bcs with a fake transformation that doesn't even turn them human. She also wouldn't be able to take a sword strike to the forward head without defending unless she was a dragon as no human in this verse is capable of no selling a sword to the face while defenseless.

That would also mean Acno doesn't get his scales in human form either which would make less sense.
but she was clearly cut and hurt and she said AAAAAGH.

you can't tell me its fake fam.

her tanking that sword attack just means she has pretty darn good piercing durability (like Natsu can take a bullet and Laxus piercing attacks from Gajeel).

besides, Irene can transform between a dragon and a human something she couldn't before by her own free will. she probably learned how to switch between forms during her +400 of life.

her durability DOES decrease. Irene only hyped her durability when she went Dragon.
 

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but she was clearly cut and hurt and she said AAAAAGH.

you can't tell me its fake fam.

her tanking that sword attack just means she has pretty darn good piercing durability (like Natsu can take a bullet and Laxus piercing attacks from Gajeel).

besides, Irene can transform between a dragon and a human something she couldn't before by her own free will. she probably learned how to switch between forms during her +400 of life.

her durability DOES decrease. Irene only hyped her durability when she went Dragon.
That was bcs of Wendy. She took Erza's attack she took to the head without pain and it was from a more severe attack yet she felt pain from a lesser attack? That doesn't make sense.

Yes, but no human in this verse can just take a sword to the face from someone like Erza w/o dying. She didn't even defend the attack as well.

Zeref taught her how to do it lol.

How would a Dragon loose their scales from a transformation when we know that transformation can't actually turn them into human?
 
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