Round of 16 Irene vs Gajeel

Nemispelled · May 28, 2017

Laxus pwns natsu said:
If that the case Wendy would have told erza that she can take her on her self. Having ds advantage doesn't give the win 2. Gajeel isn't an enchanter so Wendy able counter irene magic isnt the samefeat gajeel can do. Irene use deus sema call it a day

I don't see why Wendy would tell Erza to move aside though.. It's not like she had something to prove. Wendy had already shown to outclass Irene on all levels, so I have no doubt that she would be able to beat Irene if she was forced to.

Plus, while fighting Irene, it's not like Wendy knew exactly how powerful Irene was... They never met, so of course Wendy wouldn't tell Erza that she can handle it herself.

Is Wendy more powerful going off of feats? Definitely.

Deus Sema was the very spell that a 95% broken boned exhausted Erza tanked... (And that was Irene's strongest enchantment spell feat-wise)

Surely, a full powered dragon slayer like Gajeel can achieve the same feat.. Gajeel > Erza.

And again, like I said, all Gajeel needs to do is enter Iron Shadow Dragon Mode.

If he's a shadow, Irene won't be able to hit him via claw swipe.

What else does Irene have in her arsenal that can beat Gajeel?

This is definitely Gajeel's win.

It's game over once he turns into a shadow.

There's no way Irene can hit him..

Takuan · May 28, 2017

Nemispelled said:
I don't see why Wendy would tell Erza to move aside though.. It's not like she had something to prove. Wendy had already shown to outclass Irene on all levels, so I have no doubt that she would be able to beat Irene if she was forced to.

Plus, while fighting Irene, it's not like Wendy knew exactly how powerful Irene was... They never met, so of course Wendy wouldn't tell Erza that she can handle it herself.

Is Wendy more powerful going off of feats? Definitely.

Deus Sema was the very spell that a 95% broken boned exhausted Erza tanked... (And that was Irene's strongest enchantment spell feat-wise)

Surely, a full powered dragon slayer like Gajeel can achieve the same feat.. Gajeel > Erza.

And again, like I said, all Gajeel needs to do is enter Iron Shadow Dragon Mode.

If he's a shadow, Irene won't be able to hit him via claw swipe.

What else does Irene have in her arsenal that can beat Gajeel?

This is definitely Gajeel's win.

It's game over once he turns into a shadow.

There's no way Irene can hit him..

What?!

I mean i respect your opinion and i could agree with you to a certain extent. Irene has been trashed and it makes sense that a capable Dragon Slayer should be able to one shot her (in Dragon Form) if a no-bones-left Erza was able to with close to no power in that sword slash.
So i could see where you're coming from with Gajeel > Irene, eventhough i disagree.

But when you're saying that Irene can't touch Gajeel because he can turn into a shadow... You lost me entirely.
Even GMG Gajeel was able to grab Rogue when Rogue was in shadow form. SInce when have turning into shadow become top tier?
Is Rogue a top tier character because of this ability? Of course he's not. Having this ability doesn't automatically means you won. Or are you implying that Rogue would also beat Irene because she wouldn't be able to hit him?

It might be a great advantage when dealing with an opponent that's close to him in terms of power level. That's not the case here.

Plus, how would turning into a shadow help Gajeel against Irene who can just fly and drop spells from above?

Now don't get me wrong, im not here to start an argument, in fact i don't really care about the tournament anymore. And i've always despised Irene. But saying she can't hit Gajeel because shadows, is extremely far fetched.

XXEliteXXAceXX · May 28, 2017

Irene wins. Though, I can't believe I'm seeing the words "stomp" and "no diff" in this thread...

Reiterating what I said in the group stages, anyone on Erza's level or higher (w/ DS magic) should be able to revert Irene. However, it takes considerably more power to defeat her. That said, DF Gajeel should be capable of beating Human Irene. Whether he can revert her while she is in her dragon form depends on whether he can tag her which I don't think he can (if she is serious).

But for the purpose of my argument, none of that matters. I'm only counting what Gajeel has done outside of eating those MBP's. And without the power-up, I see him losing to Dragon Irene pretty badly. He still has enough power to revert her, but even then, he wouldn't be able to beat her human form either. So, overall...

Human Irene > Gajeel [Medium-High Difficulty]
Dragon Irene > Gajeel [Low-Medium Difficulty]

Nemispelled · May 28, 2017

Takuan said:
What?!

I mean i respect your opinion and i could agree with you to a certain extent. Irene has been trashed and it makes sense that a capable Dragon Slayer should be able to one shot her (in Dragon Form) if a no-bones-left Erza was able to with close to no power in that sword slash.
So i could see where you're coming from with Gajeel > Irene, eventhough i disagree.

But when you're saying that Irene can't touch Gajeel because he can turn into a shadow... You lost me entirely.
Even GMG Gajeel was able to grab Rogue when Rogue was in shadow form. SInce when have turning into shadow become top tier?
Is Rogue a top tier character because of this ability? Of course he's not. Having this ability doesn't automatically means you won. Or are you implying that Rogue would also beat Irene because she wouldn't be able to hit him?

It might be a great advantage when dealing with an opponent that's close to him in terms of power level. That's not the case here.

Plus, how would turning into a shadow help Gajeel against Irene who can just fly and drop spells from above?

Now don't get me wrong, im not here to start an argument, in fact i don't really care about the tournament anymore. And i've always despised Irene. But saying she can't hit Gajeel because shadows, is extremely far fetched.

Well, Gajeel was able to grab Rogue because they were both in shadow form. So a shadow can grab another shadow, that makes sense.

But Gajeel's shadow form will grant him a fair amount of intangibility against Irene's physical attacks. So Dragon Irene's claw swipe would miss Gajeel completely if he's in shadow form.

Deus Sema and other blasts could injure Gajeel in his shadow form, but then again, Gajeel can merely tank those.

Especially since an exhausted 95% broken boned Erza tanked Irene's strongest enchantment spell.

Technically, Rogue's shadow was the whole reason why Sting even won against Larcade..

So being in shadow form makes quite a bit of a difference if you ask me.

It doesn't automatically give somebody the victory, but its intangibility effect will definitely be a major factor for dodging physical attacks, such as Dragon Irene's claw swipe.

I mean, really..

Gajeel's performance against a Spriggan was a lot better than Irene's performance against a young girl + her own daughter.. The winner is obvious here.

What's really far-fetched in my eyes is how much people are overhyping -- Universe One, Battlefield Removal, Enchantment Blasts, Deus Sema, and Claw Swipe --

How the hell is one claw swipe going to win the battle for Irene?

Erza still destroyed a damn meteor after tanking a claw swipe.

Erza still destroyed the almighty Deus Sema after having all her bones crushed.

At this point, Irene's feats are getting massively extrapolated and ridiculous.

Takuan · May 28, 2017

Nemispelled said:
Well, Gajeel was able to grab Rogue because they were both in shadow form. So a shadow can grab another shadow, that makes sense.

But Gajeel's shadow form will grant him a fair amount of intangibility against Irene's physical attacks. So Dragon Irene's claw swipe would miss Gajeel completely if he's in shadow form.

Deus Sema and other blasts could injure Gajeel in his shadow form, but then again, Gajeel can merely tank those.

Especially since an exhausted 95% broken boned Erza tanked Irene's strongest enchantment spell.

Technically, Rogue's shadow was the whole reason why Sting even won against Larcade..

So being in shadow form makes quite a bit of a difference if you ask me.

It doesn't automatically give somebody the victory, but its intangibility effect will definitely be a major factor for dodging physical attacks, such as Dragon Irene's claw swipe.

I mean, really..

Gajeel's performance against a Spriggan was a lot better than Irene's performance against a young girl + her own daughter.. The winner is obvious here.

What's really far-fetched in my eyes is how much people are overhyping -- Universe One, Battlefield Removal, Enchantment Blasts, Deus Sema, and Claw Swipe --

How the hell is one claw swipe going to win the battle for Irene?

Erza still destroyed a damn meteor after tanking a claw swipe.

Erza still destroyed the almighty Deus Sema after having all her bones crushed.

At this point, Irene's feats are getting massively extrapolated and ridiculous.

Nevermind what i said about GMG Gajeel vs Rogue. I was talking about the DS Sabertooth vs FT fight, when Gajeel grabbed Rogue when Rogue was toying all over the place in his shadow. But it wasn't the same type of shadow at all, so my bad on that, i made a mistake.

Deus Sema hasn't been tanked by erza, she destroyed it. It's like Gildartz destroying Nasu's roar with crash, he never actually tanked it. Though since erza's slash is physical, she had to confront it with brute force. I'll concede this, Deus Sema definitely wasn't impressive considering the hype behind it.

Turning into the shadow was a huge deal against Larcade because it allowed to counter RIP, the isn't the same against Irene. I agree that it is a great tool for defense. Though i'm not sure if this is really considered intangibility. Like, Juvia is intangible, Bradman is intangible. Gajeel, when turning into his shadow, is just able to utilize shadows to move and dodge, but can't attack from that. In order to attack he would have to become "tangible" again at some point. And in this case, would he be able to dodge Irene's Dragon Claw? That's debatable. Erza couldn't react to it at all.

In terms of feats, I agree that Irene sucks but i'd say that's mainly due to PiS and PoF, just like August (though August left me a way better impression). But again, i don't really care or want to start a debate. >My point was mainly about Gajeel's shadow. I don't think this would be a big deal for Irene to be honest.

Nemispelled · May 29, 2017

Takuan said:
Nevermind what i said about GMG Gajeel vs Rogue. I was talking about the DS Sabertooth vs FT fight, when Gajeel grabbed Rogue when Rogue was toying all over the place in his shadow. But it wasn't the same type of shadow at all, so my bad on that, i made a mistake.

Deus Sema hasn't been tanked by erza, she destroyed it. It's like Gildartz destroying Nasu's roar with crash, he never actually tanked it. Though since erza's slash is physical, she had to confront it with brute force. I'll concede this, Deus Sema definitely wasn't impressive considering the hype behind it.

Turning into the shadow was a huge deal against Larcade because it allowed to counter RIP, the isn't the same against Irene. I agree that it is a great tool for defense. Though i'm not sure if this is really considered intangibility. Like, Juvia is intangible, Bradman is intangible. Gajeel, when turning into his shadow, is just able to utilize shadows to move and dodge, but can't attack from that. In order to attack he would have to become "tangible" again at some point. And in this case, would he be able to dodge Irene's Dragon Claw? That's debatable. Erza couldn't react to it at all.

In terms of feats, I agree that Irene sucks but i'd say that's mainly due to PiS and PoF, just like August (though August left me a way better impression). But again, i don't really care or want to start a debate. >My point was mainly about Gajeel's shadow. I don't think this would be a big deal for Irene to be honest.

I agree that Gajeel cannot attack in his shadow form, but it still serves as a good intangibility feat to avoid getting hit by Irene's physical swipe.

Intangibility is actually very underrated in the community.. I mean, that's practically why Gajeel struggled so much against Bloodman. Most of Gajeel's physical attacks couldn't damage Bloodman because it would just go right through the particles.

This is the same with Gajeel's shadow form and Dragon Irene's claw swipe.

The claw swipe wasn't as fast as many people are hyping it up to be.. In my opinion, Gajeel could easily turn into a shadow quicker than Irene swinging her arms around.

And sure, I respect your opinion. At the end of the day, if you see Gajeel's shadow form as ineffective, then fair enough.

But from my perspective, if you compare Gajeel's performance and Irene's performance throughout the entire arc, it's clear who has the superior feats.

I think Irene has been overhyped too much lately. To the point where people are starting to make up hypothetical situations about what Universe One, Enchantments, and Deus Sema can do.

We've already seen what those spells can do in the manga. And they failed terribly each and every time. There's nothing impressive about it.

Honestly, I don't mind to extrapolate Gajeel's shadow form feats if Irene is getting credit for stuff that she's never shown to do canonically.

I judge by their overall performance. Not false hype.

We've seen the endgame and results of each character's feats. I'm simply using what we've seen after the fact.

Takuan · May 29, 2017

Nemispelled said:
I agree that Gajeel cannot attack in his shadow form, but it still serves as a good intangibility feat to avoid getting hit by Irene's physical swipe.

Intangibility is actually very underrated in the community.. I mean, that's practically why Gajeel struggled so much against Bloodman. Most of Gajeel's physical attacks couldn't damage Bloodman because it would just go right through the particles.

This is the same with Gajeel's shadow form and Dragon Irene's claw swipe.

The claw swipe wasn't as fast as many people are hyping it up to be.. In my opinion, Gajeel could easily turn into a shadow quicker than Irene swinging her arms around.

And sure, I respect your opinion. At the end of the day, if you see Gajeel's shadow form as ineffective, then fair enough.

But from my perspective, if you compare Gajeel's performance and Irene's performance throughout the entire arc, it's clear who has the superior feats.

I think Irene has been overhyped too much lately. To the point where people are starting to make up hypothetical situations about what Universe One, Enchantments, and Deus Sema can do.

We've already seen what those spells can do in the manga. And they failed terribly each and every time. There's nothing impressive about it.

Honestly, I don't mind to extrapolate Gajeel's shadow form feats if Irene is getting credit for stuff that she's never shown to do canonically.

I judge by their overall performance. Not false hype.

We've seen the endgame and results of each character's feats. I'm simply using what we've seen after the fact.

To be honest it's hard to disagree with you, but it is a matter of perspective. The problem with judging with feats is that the cannon feats (well, the manga as a whole) is inconsistent as fuck. It is abnormal that Irene got to duel Acno and do fairly well against him, pushing him and dodging his attacks, and then go against Erza and Wendy and get trashed. Then again one could say that her feats against Acno aren't such a big deal since Ichiya and Christina did the same :fail

So judging enirely based on these feats can be kind of tricky, unfortunately we cant do otherwise. In my opinion, Gajeel left a good impression due to the fact that he overwhelmed Bradman after enter Iron Jet Mode; but to be honest, Bradman has been mediocre in the way he used his curses and ultimately didnt have any durability aside from being intangible. Irene seemed weak against Erza and Wendy because we expected so much more; but in the end they couldn't defeat her, despite Wendy countering perfectly Irene's main magic and despite he huge amount of PiS and PoF.

Even if Gajeel would put up a decent fight, in the end how can he beat Irene? Cannonically he has to be superior to Erza and Wendy combined, which i don't think is the case at all, and has to have a counter to enchantments like Wendy had, which isn't the case. Even excluding enchantments by saying this advantage for Wendy wasn't a big deal, Gajeel still isn't on Erza + Wendy level.

Tenri · May 29, 2017

Irene stomps

XXEliteXXAceXX · May 29, 2017

[mod=XXEliteXXAceXX]As scheduled, the discussion for Irene vs Gajeel is now closed. However, you still can vote until tomorrow (Tuesday; May 30th, 2017 at 12 PM GMT). Thank you for your participation![/mod]