Fantasy Jellal vs Azuma

Who Wins?


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Axiomus

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ok ok tell me how is the manga effected afterwards by OS new magic. does midnight uses gensis zero against august? does cobra stalemates an average springgan?
you dont know that. it took gray reasonable amount of time to figure out racer magic. after that arc, racer got almost zero screen time. i see no reason for mishma to upgrade something he aint gonna use.

ok i will refer you to the panel of erza with dual swords blitzing laxus so fast that he couldnt even raise his arms (unlike jura who created an entire wall). so tell me is current erza alot faster than current laxus. (one exchange is enough right?)


Alright, so Simon killed himself. I don't want to hear anybody complaining about Jellal killing Simon from now on.
lol take that up with jellal

ah more fillers

hades nearly killed wendy with that hah yell thing. i dont remember if its only in anime though. that was some effort. hades took as much time and effort to use that move which was supposed to kill natsu (?) as much as jellal did to charge up his altaris.

sadly no. azuma will handle jellal meteor as easily as he handled erza souring armor (i think that did happen in the manga). i think even more easily because erza went cqc with that armor, meanwhile jellal still have to stay away from azuma to do any sort of spell
What does any of that have to do with anything? Midnight not using Genesis Zero has nothing to do with anything, especially considering their fight was almost entirely offscreen. Cobra couldn't take on a Spriggan. I don't see why this matters though. Their upgrades were from the 7 year timeskip. Nobody said anything about them making further upgrades in the 1 year timeskip. Besides, the most important thing is that Racer is literally wearing the suit that boosts his speed.

Yes, one exchange is enough. Erza blitzing Laxus proves that Erza can blitz Laxus. It doesn't prove she's faster than Laxus, because he can also blitzed her a few times in their fight. It does, however, prove that she's faster than anyone that can't blitz Laxus. It's not even just one exchange. Here, I'll show you different time where Jellal blitzes Jura, and yet another time where Jura smacks Laxus out of a charge.

Actually the Hologium just sensed that Hades was really dangerous when he yelled ("katsu" is a motivational battle-cry), and decided to protect Wendy. There wasn't actually an attack, and Hades was just as confused as anyone by what happened.

Again, I have reason to believe Jellal is faster than Erza, but I digress. It's not like Azuma was as fast as Erza in soaring armour. He had to hole himself up and grab Erza by the legs when she was trying to hack her way through his trees. Two issues. First, Azuma stopped Erza from using flight armor by breaking it. He's not going to be make Jellal unable to use meteor. Second, Jellal's just going to flying around in the air casting Grand Chariot if Azuma tries to hole himself up, which I'm betting will have an easier time breaking through Azuma's trees than the swords from soaring armor.
 
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sharkai

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What does any of that have to do with anything? Midnight not using Genesis Zero has nothing to do with anything, especially considering their fight was almost entirely offscreen. Cobra couldn't take on a Spriggan. I don't see why this matters though. Their upgrades were from the 7 year timeskip. Nobody said anything about them making further upgrades in the 1 year timeskip. Besides, the most important thing is that Racer is literally wearing the suit that boosts his speed.

Yes, one exchange is enough. Erza blitzing Laxus proves that Erza can blitz Laxus. It doesn't prove she's faster than Laxus, because he can also blitzed her a few times in their fight. It does, however, prove that she's faster than anyone that can't blitz Laxus. It's not even just one exchange. Here, I'll show you different time where Jellal blitzes Jura, and yet another time where Jura smacks Laxus out of a charge.

Actually the Hologium just sensed that Hades was really dangerous when he yelled ("katsu" is a motivational battle-cry), and decided to protect Wendy. There wasn't actually an attack, and Hades was just as confused as anyone by what happened.

Again, I have reason to believe Jellal is faster than Erza, but I digress. It's not like Azuma was as fast as Erza in soaring armour. He had to hole himself up and grab Erza by the legs when she was trying to hack her way through his trees. Two issues. First, Azuma stopped Erza from using flight armor by breaking it. He's not going to be make Jellal unable to use meteor. Second, Jellal's just going to flying around in the air casting Grand Chariot if Azuma tries to hole himself up, which I'm betting will have an easier time breaking through Azuma's trees than the swords from soaring armor.
that is just design choice, nothing more. cobra also has that scar. yet erza for some reasons seems to have forgotten how to cast grand chariot. its almost like these fillers dont exists
the problem is if i dont consider your filler, nothing in the manga changes. since its already called a filler. we already know why fillers are made. i have no reason to consider them as cannon. its just something to entertain you while mishma actually thinks of the next step in the manga.
irrelevant characters dont get a considerable boost. it doesnt matter which timeskip you speak of. even gmg jura only improved as much as three months training laxus, SO plus experience jellal or SO erza.


er,
so, it is possible that if jellal hadnt brought out his strongest spell even though he hadnt even scratched jura once before that, jura might have blitzed jellal.
(sema which jellal apparently knew even someone as weak as lyon can counter).
if jura can blitz jellal, so can laxus, no?



o i see. i thought it was some sort of attack. made hades strain his face though

I have reason to believe Jellal is faster than Erza
sadly there is nothing in manga for this

azuma handled erza, didnt he. jellal with meteor only can fly away and cast gc (while of course dodging that spell, 'bleve', i think). azuma easily can sink into one tree and appear somewhere else. or block it like jura did. jellal with meteor can do nothing else. azuma will have alot more time to react against jellal than with erza. jellal has to set the entire gc and then that gc travel reasonable distance.
 
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Ratrace

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that is just design choice, nothing more.
the problem is if i dont consider your filler, nothing in the manga changes. since its already called a filler. we already know why fillers are made. i have no reason to consider them as cannon. its just something to entertain you while mishma actually thinks of the next step in the manga.
irrelevant characters dont get a considerable boost. it doesnt matter which timeskip you speak of. even gmg jura only improved as much as three months training laxus, SO plus experience jellal or SO erza.
The OS were using magic first seen during that filler arc so there was stuff that was cannon. Unless they somehow learned it in prison
 

sharkai

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The OS were using magic first seen during that filler arc so there was stuff that was cannon. Unless they somehow learned it in prison
only person that was using different magic was angel. because she couldnt possibly have kept her keys. everyone else used the magic they had during OS.

starry arc isnt cannon. there was a discussin here before. some people said that event happened but fairy tail mages werent involved or something. i just consider them fillers. mishma doesnt really care about them
 

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only person that was using different magic was angel. because she couldnt possibly have kept her keys. everyone else used the magic they had during OS.

starry arc isnt cannon. there was a discussin here before. some people said that event happened but fairy tail mages werent involved or something. i just consider them fillers. mishma doesnt really care about them
She must have learned it somewhere and I doubt it was in prison

Never said it was cannon just some stuff were made cannon
 

Axiomus

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that is just design choice, nothing more. cobra also has that scar. yet erza for some reasons seems to have forgotten how to cast grand chariot. its almost like these fillers dont exists
the problem is if i dont consider your filler, nothing in the manga changes. since its already called a filler. we already know why fillers are made. i have no reason to consider them as cannon. its just something to entertain you while mishma actually thinks of the next step in the manga.
irrelevant characters dont get a considerable boost. it doesnt matter which timeskip you speak of. even gmg jura only improved as much as three months training laxus, SO plus experience jellal or SO erza.


er,
so, it is possible that if jellal hadnt brought out his strongest spell even though he hadnt even scratched jura once before that, jura might have blitzed jellal.
(sema which jellal apparently knew even someone as weak as lyon can counter).
if jura can blitz jellal, so can laxus, no?



o i see. i thought it was some sort of attack. made hades strain his face though

I have reason to believe Jellal is faster than Erza
sadly there is nothing in manga for this

azuma handled erza, didnt he. jellal with meteor only can fly away and cast gc (while of course dodging that spell, 'bleve', i think). azuma easily can sink into one tree and appear somewhere else. or block it like jura did. jellal with meteor can do nothing else. azuma will have alot more time to react against jellal than with erza. jellal has to set the entire gc and then that gc travel reasonable distance.
Except the manga specifically makes reference to the events in the arc. Yukino literally said, "Just recently, there was the Zentopia incident". This is literally a reference to what Oracion Seis did, which is using anti-link to get rid of a bunch of Celestial Spirit Mages. This is actually the reason why there's so few Celestial Spirit wizards left. So yeah....The Starry Night arc did affect the manga.

Besides, and I cannot stress this enough, Racer is wearing the suit that boosts his speed.

Jellal's meteor is fast. I never said that it hits hard. It's just fast enough to blitz Jura where Laxus failed. That makes Jellal faster than Laxus.

Lyon can't counter Sema. What in the world are you talking about?

Jura didn't blitz Jellal in meteor. He spammed many rocks at him, and tagged him once. That's not a blitz. If Laxus spammed a bunch of lightning bolts at Jellal could he tag Jellal? Sure. Can Laxus keep up with Jellal zipping around in hand to hand? I doubt it.

Yeah there is. Erza got distracted by Racer, and then Cobra's snake bit her arm. Do I think Cobra's snake would have ever gotten anywhere near close to biting TOH Jellal when he's zipping around in meteor? Nope. Meteor easily blitzed Racer and Cobra.

Azuma got rid of Erza's soaring armor by hitting her once. That's not going to happen with Jellal's meteor. Jellal's going to be faster any time he wishes to use meteor. Holing himself up might work really well against soaring armour's sword, but how well did it work against Mirajane's blast?

Up until this point, I've only been arguing for why Jellal's attack power isn't weaker than Azuma's. If I really wanted to argue for Jellal's victory, I would point out how self-destruction square would have blown up the entire Nirvanna structure. Also, bind snake is an easy out to all of Azuma's movements.
 
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sharkai

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Except the manga specifically makes reference to the events in the arc. Yukino literally said, "Just recently, there was the Zentopia incident". This is literally a reference to what Oracion Seis did, which is using anti-link to get rid of a bunch of Celestial Spirit Mages. This is actually the reason why there's so few Celestial Spirit wizards left. So yeah....The Starry Night arc did affect the manga.

Besides, and I cannot stress this enough, Racer is wearing the suit that boosts his speed.

Jellal's meteor is fast. I never said that it hits hard. It's just fast enough to blitz Jura where Laxus failed. That makes Jellal faster than Laxus.

Lyon can't counter Sema. What in the world are you talking about?

Jura didn't blitz Jellal in meteor. He spammed many rocks at him, and tagged him once. That's not a blitz. If Laxus spammed a bunch of lightning bolts at Jellal could he tag Jellal? Sure. Can Laxus keep up with Jellal zipping around in hand to hand? I doubt it.

Yeah there is. Erza got distracted by Racer, and then Cobra's snake bit her arm. Do I think Cobra's snake would have ever gotten anywhere near close to biting TOH Jellal when he's zipping around in meteor? Nope. Meteor easily blitzed Racer and Cobra.

Azuma got rid of Erza's soaring armor by hitting her once. That's not going to happen with Jellal's meteor. Jellal's going to be faster any time he wishes to use meteor. Holing himself up might work really well against soaring armour's sword, but how well did it work against Mirajane's blast?

Up until this point, I've only been arguing for why Jellal's attack power isn't weaker than Azuma's. If I really wanted to argue for Jellal's victory, I would point out how self-destruction square would have blown up the entire Nirvanna structure. Also, bind snake is an easy out to all of Azuma's movements.
was lucy involves in Zentopia event? you really need to remember its a filler. few celestial wizards. lol. we have even fewer requip mages. if it wasnt for ur we wont have a single ice make mage

and cobra got scar. yet erza still seems to have forgotten GC, cobra forgot vibration magic, and midnight forgot gensis zero.

my point was. even after erza blitz laxus, you dont think she is faster then him. because we saw a lengthy fight where laxus blitz erza as well.

jellal blitzed jura once (not including when he first revealed heavenly body magic). jura handled it esily enough. if jellal wasnt about to get extreme low diffed, we might have seen jura blitzing jellal as well. one exchange is not enough.

thats on you. if alverzec laxus can counter deus sema. gmg lyon can counter sema.
i of course dont believe that. i think jura might not have been able to handle sema. thus either taking jura out or extremely injuring him. allowing a jellal an extreme diff exchange with jura. its you people who said weaker mages can counter sema because the stronger mage doesnt put all his or her mp in it

what! you are forgetting things man. first it doesnt matter what you think without providing some supporting evidence, no? that would be weak point.
two, erza was handling cobra and racer just fine. it was hoteye sneak attack which opened erza for further attacks. erza knew nothing of their magic here. hell i am not even sure tartarus jellal is faster than os erza because of that.

jellal after find out meteor isnt gonna cut it with azuma, will not use it again. standard jellal fighting style

jellal cant get either of those spells on azuma, unless azuma tries to kiss him
 

Axiomus

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was lucy involves in Zentopia event? you really need to remember its a filler. few celestial wizards. lol. we have even fewer requip mages. if it wasnt for ur we wont have a single ice make mage

and cobra got scar. yet erza still seems to have forgotten GC, cobra forgot vibration magic, and midnight forgot gensis zero.

my point was. even after erza blitz laxus, you dont think she is faster then him. because we saw a lengthy fight where laxus blitz erza as well.

jellal blitzed jura once (not including when he first revealed heavenly body magic). jura handled it esily enough. if jellal wasnt about to get extreme low diffed, we might have seen jura blitzing jellal as well. one exchange is not enough.

thats on you. if alverzec laxus can counter deus sema. gmg lyon can counter sema.
i of course dont believe that. i think jura might not have been able to handle sema. thus either taking jura out or extremely injuring him. allowing a jellal an extreme diff exchange with jura. its you people who said weaker mages can counter sema because the stronger mage doesnt put all his or her mp in it

what! you are forgetting things man. first it doesnt matter what you think without providing some supporting evidence, no? that would be weak point.
two, erza was handling cobra and racer just fine. it was hoteye sneak attack which opened erza for further attacks. erza knew nothing of their magic here. hell i am not even sure tartarus jellal is faster than os erza because of that.

jellal after find out meteor isnt gonna cut it with azuma, will not use it again. standard jellal fighting style

jellal cant get either of those spells on azuma, unless azuma tries to kiss him
Yes. It was storyboarded by Mashima. Oracion Seis wiped out almost all of the Celestial Spirit Wizards. There are more wizards than just the main cast.

They didn't forget about any of their magics. They just never got a chance to show it off because Mashima never focuses on them. It's still canon.

Why are we talking about Erza and Grand Chariot?

And we don't see Laxus blitzing Jura.

Alright. So Hoteye helped. Still not convinced that Cobra's snake is biting ToH Jellal in meteor. He was keeping up with Cobra and Racer without it.
I'll even go out on a limb and say DF Natsu can slam Jellal through several floors, and Jellal would still dodge Cobra's snake.

Alvarez Laxus can counter dues sema because he has the attack power to match Erza's attacks. Lyon's feats don't scale to anybody. While it's true that Deus Sema doesn't take up all of Irene's MP, the actual important part is that the durability of dues sema actually has nothing to do with Irene's MP. She's pulling the rock from space and throwing it at you. The MP goes into throwing the rock at you, not making the rock indestructible. Erza's slashes can break meteors, and Laxus scales to Erza. Lyon doesn't scale to anybody.

Why would Jellal stop using meteor on Azuma?

Or he can just fly around to Azuma's back and do what he did to Erza here.
 

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Yes. It was storyboarded by Mashima. Oracion Seis wiped out almost all of the Celestial Spirit Wizards. There are more wizards than just the main cast.

They didn't forget about any of their magics. They just never got a chance to show it off because Mashima never focuses on them. It's still canon.

Why are we talking about Erza and Grand Chariot?

And we don't see Laxus blitzing Jura.

Alright. So Hoteye helped. Still not convinced that Cobra's snake is biting ToH Jellal in meteor. He was keeping up with Cobra and Racer without it.
I'll even go out on a limb and say DF Natsu can slam Jellal through several floors, and Jellal would still dodge Cobra's snake.

Alvarez Laxus can counter dues sema because he has the attack power to match Erza's attacks. Lyon's feats don't scale to anybody. While it's true that Deus Sema doesn't take up all of Irene's MP, the actual important part is that the durability of dues sema actually has nothing to do with Irene's MP. She's pulling the rock from space and throwing it at you. The MP goes into throwing the rock at you, not making the rock indestructible. Erza's slashes can break meteors, and Laxus scales to Erza. Lyon doesn't scale to anybody.

Why would Jellal stop using meteor on Azuma?

Or he can just fly around to Azuma's back and do what he did to Erza here.
it was filler with slight input from mishma, nothing more.
they had time, against jellal, against august. instead midnight and cobra trump cards remain the same.
the events might have happened but no fairy tail mage was involved. so they might have gotten slight upgrade but tartarus racer is still getting low to max mid diff by gmg gray

because there another filler where erza performs GC. we dont see that in manga either

we see laxus landing hits and taking out jura. since it is possible jura can blitz jellal. jellal speed is a non factor in most fights

toh jellal wasnt. it was TOH jellal plus what 4, 5 years of experience plus SO with complete knowledge of OS, who was keeping up with them.
wanking aside TOH jellal isnt faster than OS racer. there is nothing in the manga to suggest it


laxus does not scale to pof erza anymore than erza scales to flames of emotion natsu. if someone irene can one shot destroy her dues sema. then someone jellal can one shot also destroy his sema.
if i follow your logic, jura would have to close his eyes, tie both his hands behind his back, then he might have some difficulty in handling jellal sema lol

the actual important part is that the durability of dues sema actually has nothing to do with Irene's MP
bs. this just a cheap way out. every attack durability scales to caster mp. mages with physical attacks are not inherently weaker.


because that is how jellal fights. he will use meteor, azuma will handle it. then jellal will drop that and go for something else

yeah he could do that bind snake, if azuma is interested in something else, you know instead of fighting jellal.
 

Axiomus

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it was filler with slight input from mishma, nothing more.
they had time, against jellal, against august. instead midnight and cobra trump cards remain the same.
the events might have happened but no fairy tail mage was involved. so they might have gotten slight upgrade but tartarus racer is still getting low to max mid diff by gmg gray

because there another filler where erza performs GC. we dont see that in manga either

we see laxus landing hits and taking out jura. since it is possible jura can blitz jellal. jellal speed is a non factor in most fights

toh jellal wasnt. it was TOH jellal plus what 4, 5 years of experience plus SO with complete knowledge of OS, who was keeping up with them.
wanking aside TOH jellal isnt faster than OS racer. there is nothing in the manga to suggest it


laxus does not scale to pof erza anymore than erza scales to flames of emotion natsu. if someone irene can one shot destroy her dues sema. then someone jellal can one shot also destroy his sema.
if i follow your logic, jura would have to close his eyes, tie both his hands behind his back, then he might have some difficulty in handling jellal sema lol

the actual important part is that the durability of dues sema actually has nothing to do with Irene's MP
bs. this just a cheap way out. every attack durability scales to caster mp. mages with physical attacks are not inherently weaker.


because that is how jellal fights. he will use meteor, azuma will handle it. then jellal will drop that and go for something else

yeah he could do that bind snake, if azuma is interested in something else, you know instead of fighting jellal.
It was filler that Mashima storyboarded. He came up with the ideas. He even made a statement about how he was originally going to have Lucy meet with the ghost of her dad, but changed it because it was too dark. The arc was canon. FT was involved.

Tartatus racer isn't getting low diffed by Gray. Heck, Gray only beat him in Oracion Seis because Lyon drew him far away enough so that his slowing magic was out of range.

You mean the Dragon Cry movie? Yeah, I don't see why this is relevant.

It's true. Sema is grabbing a rock from space and throwing it. Deus Sema is a bigger space rock that makes a bigger boom. They're not actually affecting the durability of the rock itself

Except meteor is Jellal's main magic, and he's never just stopped using it.

Like maybe.... A thought projection?
 

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It was filler that Mashima storyboarded. He came up with the ideas. He even made a statement about how he was originally going to have Lucy meet with the ghost of her dad, but changed it because it was too dark. The arc was canon. FT was involved.

Tartatus racer isn't getting low diffed by Gray. Heck, Gray only beat him in Oracion Seis because Lyon drew him far away enough so that his slowing magic was out of range.

You mean the Dragon Cry movie? Yeah, I don't see why this is relevant.

It's true. Sema is grabbing a rock from space and throwing it. Deus Sema is a bigger space rock that makes a bigger boom. They're not actually affecting the durability of the rock itself

Except meteor is Jellal's main magic, and he's never just stopped using it.

Like maybe.... A thought projection?
what do you mean storyboarded. are you implying that mishma put as much effort in stary arc as much he did in gmg arc or tartarus arc. if its cannon please give me chapter number this arc happened, because i dont watch the anime as much as i read the manga. i havent even watched the last arc.

racer is. i know what happened in OS arc. but bad guys fall back in power. just the way i dont have to think whether erigor could have given zeref a fight, same way i know racer is getting stomped by gray post ts. i also know cobra is getting extreme low diffed by any springgans, even if you add midnight and racer with him
we already saw what happened to raijinshu and minerva. there are demons (not including mard) in tartarus arc who would low diffed the entire OS (not including brain).

its relevant, because filler magic dont seems to make an appearance in the manga. cobra doesnt do that vibration magic, midnight doesnt know gensis zero, we dont know what magic racer is using because its looks exactly like his OS magic, and erza havent used GC again.
fillers also doesnt follow the same patern as major arc, and power ranking is sh!t.

no its not.
what you basically are implying that if august has a top tier magic, like say kamehameha. erza will not be able to over come it the same way she did deus sema, because august attack "durablity" will depends on his mp, while irene attack is just a rock.
in short you are saying irene is weaker than august just because her attacks are in this form.

But following your logic. since jellal sema can be handled by someone much weaker than jellal himself. dont you think gmg jura would have low diffed him? or do you think jellal would have brought out the big moves like bind snake and thought projection :teehee

jellal used it once against base natsu, once against jura, once against OS, once near nienhart, once against that Seed. only time he used it alot was against dragon aconologia


Like maybe.... A thought projection?
erm he is fighting azuma, not lucy
 

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what do you mean storyboarded. are you implying that mishma put as much effort in stary arc as much he did in gmg arc or tartarus arc. if its cannon please give me chapter number this arc happened, because i dont watch the anime as much as i read the manga. i havent even watched the last arc.

racer is. i know what happened in OS arc. but bad guys fall back in power. just the way i dont have to think whether erigor could have given zeref a fight, same way i know racer is getting stomped by gray post ts. i also know cobra is getting extreme low diffed by any springgans, even if you add midnight and racer with him
we already saw what happened to raijinshu and minerva. there are demons (not including mard) in tartarus arc who would low diffed the entire OS (not including brain).

its relevant, because filler magic dont seems to make an appearance in the manga. cobra doesnt do that vibration magic, midnight doesnt know gensis zero, we dont know what magic racer is using because its looks exactly like his OS magic, and erza havent used GC again.
fillers also doesnt follow the same patern as major arc, and power ranking is sh!t.

no its not.
what you basically are implying that if august has a top tier magic, like say kamehameha. erza will not be able to over come it the same way she did deus sema, because august attack "durablity" will depends on his mp, while irene attack is just a rock.
in short you are saying irene is weaker than august just because her attacks are in this form.

But following your logic. since jellal sema can be handled by someone much weaker than jellal himself. dont you think gmg jura would have low diffed him? or do you think jellal would have brought out the big moves like bind snake and thought projection :teehee

jellal used it once against base natsu, once against jura, once against OS, once near nienhart, once against that Seed. only time he used it alot was against dragon aconologia


Like maybe.... A thought projection?
erm he is fighting azuma, not lucy
You know the rough sketches he draws for the 100YQ? That's a storyboard. He did one for the Starry Night arc too. He wrote and decided the events of the Starry Night arc. The Eclipse arc too. Like I said, Yukino said that the Zentopia incident wiped out most of the Celestial Spirit mages. That refers to Oracion Seis using a bunch of anti-links to get rid of Celestial Spirit Mages.

The Raijinshu were stuck on Tenrou for the 7 year timeskip, and never received a power-up. Oracion Seis all got power-ups during the 7 years. There may be demon gates that can solo Oracion. It really doesn't change the fact that Racer is faster, or that Midnight and Cobra were stronger than Natsu and Erza respectively prior to second origin.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Deus Sema is Irene using her magic to pull a rock from space and throwing it at you with the idea of making a big explosion when it impacts. She's not making the rock indestructible. I'm not saying August is stronger than Irene. I'm sure Deus Sema can hit as hard as August's attacks.....When it actually explodes. And yeah, Erza probably isn't cutting melt or refractor. She's also not cutting Ars Magia, because there's literally nothing to cut.

You're not following my logic at all. Whether or not you can break sema or deus sema has absolutely nothing to do with how strong you are compared to it's caster in terms of overall MP. It's dependent on whether you can smash a meteor. Erza can, and Laxus stalemated Erza into exhaustion. They should have similar attack power. Lyon's attack power has never scaled to anybody.

Jellal used Meteor continuously against Natsu, and throughout his fight with DF Natsu. Against Jura, Oracion, and Neinhart, the only reason he stopped using meteor was because he could end the fight with a big hit.

Jellal fought Erza with a thought projection.
 
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You know the rough sketches he draws for the 100YQ? That's a storyboard. He did one for the Starry Night arc too. He wrote and decided the events of the Starry Night arc. The Eclipse arc too. Like I said, Yukino said that the Zentopia incident wiped out most of the Celestial Spirit mages. That refers to Oracion Seis using a bunch of anti-links to get rid of Celestial Spirit Mages.

The Raijinshu were stuck on Tenrou for the 7 year timeskip, and never received a power-up. Oracion Seis all got power-ups during the 7 years. There may be demon gates that can solo Oracion. It really doesn't change the fact that Racer is faster, or that Midnight and Cobra were stronger than Natsu and Erza respectively prior to second origin.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Deus Sema is Irene using her magic to pull a rock from space and throwing it at you with the idea of making a big explosion when it impacts. She's not making the rock indestructible. I'm not saying August is stronger than Irene. I'm sure Deus Sema can hit as hard as August's attacks.....When it actually explodes. And yeah, Erza probably isn't cutting melt or refractor. She's also not cutting Ars Magia, because there's literally nothing to cut.

You're not following my logic at all. Whether or not you can break sema or deus sema has absolutely nothing to do with how strong you are compared to it's caster in terms of overall MP. It's dependent on whether you can smash a meteor. Erza can, and Laxus stalemated Erza into exhaustion. They should have similar attack power. Lyon's attack power has never scaled to anybody.

Jellal used Meteor continuously against Natsu, and throughout his fight with DF Natsu. Against Jura, Oracion, and Neinhart, the only reason he stopped using meteor was because he could end the fight with a big hit.

Jellal fought Erza with a thought projection.
so mishma gave a rough outlook of starry arc?
so basically anime only fans know more about fairy tail than those manga only fans, interesting
as i said no one cares there are so few celestial mages, because they are so few every other mages as well other than ds.


raijinshu were stuck and OS were in prison. tartarus midnight is not stronger than tenrou erza, tartarus cobra is a fodder to tenrou erza.

so erza cant even cut throw melt or his refractor. lol

i followed your logic quiet well. lyon isnt important here. someone alot weaker than the caster of sema is. and your point, sema is abnormally easy to counter. no other spell will have this weakness. so we know natsu can burn zeref magic, natsu can burn dimeria time magic, but we definitely dont know whether erza can cut through casual august moves or hell, even hades 100 formula, even though we saw her destroy irene top tier move.
basically sema has this weakness without any advantage over normal moves (and also its like a missile or grenade)

laxus has no similar power to pof erza.

i like how you ignored the question. jellal meteor barely did anything to jura, his GC failed as well. and since we know sema is super easy to counter, jura would close his eyes and handle that as well. so after that, does jellal get extreme low diff or not. what does he do?

Jellal used Meteor continuously against Natsu, and throughout his fight with DF Natsu.
once, jellal beat natsu (as racer beat natsu in OS arc) and then went for gc.
against df natsu, jellal tried to escape, couldnt. got punched through the surface and flew away for abysal break. so once here as well


no he didnt. jellal was using his non magic non physical thought projection (seigrein) during the fight. which caused him to get low diffed by injured erza. afterwards he stoped using it (we saw them join) and then jellal dodged a little and hurriedly turn on bind snake which he had put on her when erza was thinking of kissing him (i guess)
try to understand. thought projection is a low tier magic. start of series lucy might be able to do that. fodder council members used thought projection
 

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so mishma gave a rough outlook of starry arc?
so basically anime only fans know more about fairy tail than those manga only fans, interesting
as i said no one cares there are so few celestial mages, because they are so few every other mages as well other than ds.


raijinshu were stuck and OS were in prison. tartarus midnight is not stronger than tenrou erza, tartarus cobra is a fodder to tenrou erza.

so erza cant even cut throw melt or his refractor. lol

i followed your logic quiet well. lyon isnt important here. someone alot weaker than the caster of sema is. and your point, sema is abnormally easy to counter. no other spell will have this weakness. so we know natsu can burn zeref magic, natsu can burn dimeria time magic, but we definitely dont know whether erza can cut through casual august moves or hell, even hades 100 formula, even though we saw her destroy irene top tier move.
basically sema has this weakness without any advantage over normal moves (and also its like a missile or grenade)

laxus has no similar power to pof erza.

i like how you ignored the question. jellal meteor barely did anything to jura, his GC failed as well. and since we know sema is super easy to counter, jura would close his eyes and handle that as well. so after that, does jellal get extreme low diff or not. what does he do?

Jellal used Meteor continuously against Natsu, and throughout his fight with DF Natsu.
once, jellal beat natsu (as racer beat natsu in OS arc) and then went for gc.
against df natsu, jellal tried to escape, couldnt. got punched through the surface and flew away for abysal break. so once here as well


no he didnt. jellal was using his non magic non physical thought projection (seigrein) during the fight. which caused him to get low diffed by injured erza. afterwards he stoped using it (we saw them join) and then jellal dodged a little and hurriedly turn on bind snake which he had put on her when erza was thinking of kissing him (i guess)
try to understand. thought projection is a low tier magic. start of series lucy might be able to do that. fodder council members used thought projection


He wrote the entire story. And yes, he drew the rough sketches for the anime team to follow on an episode To episode basis. I wouldn't say anime fans know more about the story than manga fans. Regardless, the Starry Night arc is treated as canon in the manga. The Zentopia incident Yukino is talking about is the Starry Night arc. It's the reason why Celestial Spirit Mages have been reduced. It's simply not true that there's so few of every mage except for dragon slayers. In fact, the opposite is true. The only reason it seems that way is because the story actively focuses on them. There's millions of mages out in the world that nobody cares about, including all the Celestial Spirit Mages that Oracion Seis took out.

Oracion Seis broke out of prison before Jellal did. Starry Night Cobra would have defeated Erza if not for Kinana's voice. Midnight would have defeated Natsu if not for Lucy using real nightmare to turn Midnight into a kid. Cobra alone is Tenrou Erza tier. Together, they are stronger.

Correct. Erza most likely can't cut through melt. She wasn't cutting through Laxus' red lightning, and melt is a stronger attack. And Erza probably wouldn't even cut Midnight's refractor. There's nothing physical to cut with refractor. It's magic that warps stuff. You have to think about what the magic actually is. I didn't ignore any questions. Your assumptions are simply wrong. Sema isn't easy to counter. It's a literal meteor. You have to have enough strength to be able to smash a meteor to counter it. Lyon can't do it. Jura probably can't either. They don't have the attack power to stop an incoming meteor. Alvarez Erza can. Laxus stalemated Alvarez Erza, so he probably can too. My point is just that durability of the meteor rock isn't a reflection of the caster's magical reserves, because their reserves doesn't go into making the rock tougher or harder. Jellal and Irene aren't creating the rock with their magic and trying to make that rock indestructible. They're pulling an already existing rock from space, and throwing it at you with the hopes that it will make a big explosion on impact.

Also, END's power can't burn time or magic. Dimaria's magic simply cannot affect END because END is too powerful for Dimaria. He wasn't actually burning her magic. Infact, her magic was still affecting Lucy. Natsu's flames of emotions can burn time and magic, and indeed time magic. But it's because those flames are hot enough to do so, not because Natsu hits harder than Dimaria or Zeref. He does, but that's besides the point. Merely hitting harder than Zeref does not allow Natsu to burn time.

Yeah lol. That's Jellal using meteor throughout his entire fight with DF Natsu. He didn't just stop using it after he got hit. Natsu slams him through the tower, he responds by flying away with meteor.
Natsu hits him again, and Jellal is still using meteor to fly away and create distance for abyss break.
If Jellal is still using meteor as DF Natsu is hitting him, then what makes you think he's just going to stop using it against Azuma? Jellal doesn't stop using meteor because "it isn't working". He stops using meteor to cast a big attack, and then the fight usually ends. If his opponent is durable enough to keep fighting, then there's no reason he wouldn't keep using meteor to dodge and whatnot.

What he used against Erza is enough to put bind snake on Azuma. All Jellal needs to do is distract Azuma with a thought projection, and then zap him with a bind snake from behind like he did to Erza. Thought projection splits your power, depending on how much of yourself you put into it. Jellal doesn't have to put most of his power into the thought projection. Just enough so that Seig can zip around in meteor and distract Azuma.
 
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He wrote the entire story. And yes, he drew the rough sketches for the anime team to follow on an episode To episode basis. I wouldn't say anime fans know more about the story than manga fans. Regardless, the Starry Night arc is treated as canon in the manga. The Zentopia incident Yukino is talking about is the Starry Night arc. It's the reason why Celestial Spirit Mages have been reduced. It's simply not true that there's so few of every mage except for dragon slayers. In fact, the opposite is true. The only reason it seems that way is because the story actively focuses on them. There's millions of mages out in the world that nobody cares about, including all the Celestial Spirit Mages that Oracion Seis took out.

Oracion Seis broke out of prison before Jellal did. Starry Night Cobra would have defeated Erza if not for Kinana's voice. Midnight would have defeated Natsu if not for Lucy using real nightmare to turn Midnight into a kid. Cobra alone is Tenrou Erza tier. Together, they are stronger.

Correct. Erza most likely can't cut through melt. She wasn't cutting through Laxus' red lightning, and melt is a stronger attack. And Erza probably wouldn't even cut Midnight's refractor. There's nothing physical to cut with refractor. It's magic that warps stuff. You have to think about what the magic actually is. I didn't ignore any questions. Your assumptions are simply wrong. Sema isn't easy to counter. It's a literal meteor. You have to have enough strength to be able to smash a meteor to counter it. Lyon can't do it. Jura probably can't either. They don't have the attack power to stop an incoming meteor. Alvarez Erza can. Laxus stalemated Alvarez Erza, so he probably can too. My point is just that durability of the meteor rock isn't a reflection of the caster's magical reserves, because their reserves doesn't go into making the rock tougher or harder. Jellal and Irene aren't creating the rock with their magic and trying to make that rock indestructible. They're pulling an already existing rock from space, and throwing it at you with the hopes that it will make a big explosion on impact.

Also, END's power can't burn time or magic. Dimaria's magic simply cannot affect END because END is too powerful for Dimaria. He wasn't actually burning her magic. Infact, her magic was still affecting Lucy. Natsu's flames of emotions can burn time and magic, and indeed time magic. But it's because those flames are hot enough to do so, not because Natsu hits harder than Dimaria or Zeref. He does, but that's besides the point. Merely hitting harder than Zeref does not allow Natsu to burn time.

Yeah lol. That's Jellal using meteor throughout his entire fight with DF Natsu. He didn't just stop using it after he got hit. Natsu slams him through the tower, he responds by flying away with meteor.
Natsu hits him again, and Jellal is still using meteor to fly away and create distance for abyss break.
If Jellal is still using meteor as DF Natsu is hitting him, then what makes you think he's just going to stop using it against Azuma? Jellal doesn't stop using meteor because "it isn't working". He stops using meteor to cast a big attack, and then the fight usually ends. If his opponent is durable enough to keep fighting, then there's no reason he wouldn't keep using meteor to dodge and whatnot.

What he used against Erza is enough to put bind snake on Azuma. All Jellal needs to do is distract Azuma with a thought projection, and then zap him with a bind snake from behind like he did to Erza. Thought projection splits your power, depending on how much of yourself you put into it. Jellal doesn't have to put most of his power into the thought projection. Just enough so that Seig can zip around in meteor and distract Azuma.
I agree with everything except maybe bind snake.

Bind snake pretty much ends the fight, as it did against Erza twice. So, I'm not sure if the author has intended for him to use it mid fight, except with enemy is explicitly off guard.
If he could do it, why didn't he use it on Jura? He was so fast that Jura could barely even follow his movements in meteor. So what was stopping him from doing what you said to Jura back in GMG?
Is it CIS from mashima, or is it impossible to do so in a practical fight?

I have the same doubt regarding self destruction spell. It is pretty much a one shot spell against anything not completely out of his tier. But so far he has used it only on a mountain, nirvana (two stationary objects) and himself. Do you think this spell can be used on actual enemies?
 

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He wrote the entire story. And yes, he drew the rough sketches for the anime team to follow on an episode To episode basis. I wouldn't say anime fans know more about the story than manga fans. Regardless, the Starry Night arc is treated as canon in the manga. The Zentopia incident Yukino is talking about is the Starry Night arc. It's the reason why Celestial Spirit Mages have been reduced. It's simply not true that there's so few of every mage except for dragon slayers. In fact, the opposite is true. The only reason it seems that way is because the story actively focuses on them. There's millions of mages out in the world that nobody cares about, including all the Celestial Spirit Mages that Oracion Seis took out.

Oracion Seis broke out of prison before Jellal did. Starry Night Cobra would have defeated Erza if not for Kinana's voice. Midnight would have defeated Natsu if not for Lucy using real nightmare to turn Midnight into a kid. Cobra alone is Tenrou Erza tier. Together, they are stronger.
This doesnt make sense to me. our problem is we have different sources. you are referring to an anime filler while i am only taking manga into account.
i dont think other fillers are cannon. hell i dont even think anime version of erza vs jellal is cannon. while you do
for me after fairy tail came out of fairy sphere, we found out that natsu was basically a max tier. then they had to go on a training session (some got three months training, some got SO). this allowed natsu to be reasonably above max.
in your version. i dont know, did max stalemate natsu after natsu beat midnight. so was midnight with gensis zero about max level( i really dont know). why did midnight even need gensis zero to fight a max level character (shouldnt his refractor be enough).
and cobra was essentially somewhere around gildarts level. because i dont even think bluenote could handle tenrou erza as good as filler cobra handled her.

if your version is true. it means i have incomplete knowledge. so manga readers basically need to watch the entire fairy tail anime to be on the same level as anime only watchers.
i really dont think this is the case.
authors have alot more control over manga then they have over anime. and fillers are meant to keep anime behind the manga. if authors spend time working in the anime or fillers as much as the manga then they would be no point of fillers in the first place.
Zentopia is not anymore important to the story then that drogon zord/robot women arc. or that stupid celestial gone insane arc or the phoenix movie arc (which showed that phoenix would have one shotted aconologia plus all god dragons because it was literally planning to blow the up the entire planet, because that was the amount of power needed to kill it so it re spawn)
if you are saying some fillers are cannon, not all. even that is not reasonable position because normal readers arent crazy fan girls who will follow the mishma twitter feed or even watch that much news on that manga/anime. fairy tail is not such a complicated deep story that i need any sort of background for.

besides, cobra would be the first irrelevant bad guy to improve more than the main group. from clear mishma portrayal of cobra needed racer and sneak attack from hoteye to put down erza, to casually stomping erza.
the same erza, might i add, who took out 99 monsters plus a WS tier monster, who took a blast from minerva which even surprised jura, who moved so fast that markarov couldnt keep up with her.
why would mishma do this? what was the point of making cobra so strong only to stop using his strongest magic after the filler.

Correct. Erza most likely can't cut through melt. She wasn't cutting through Laxus' red lightning, and melt is a stronger attack. And Erza probably wouldn't even cut Midnight's refractor. There's nothing physical to cut with refractor. It's magic that warps stuff. You have to think about what the magic actually is. I didn't ignore any questions. Your assumptions are simply wrong. Sema isn't easy to counter. It's a literal meteor. You have to have enough strength to be able to smash a meteor to counter it. Lyon can't do it. Jura probably can't either. They don't have the attack power to stop an incoming meteor. Alvarez Erza can. Laxus stalemated Alvarez Erza, so he probably can too. My point is just that durability of the meteor rock isn't a reflection of the caster's magical reserves, because their reserves doesn't go into making the rock tougher or harder. Jellal and Irene aren't creating the rock with their magic and trying to make that rock indestructible. They're pulling an already existing rock from space, and throwing it at you with the hopes that it will make a big explosion on impact.

Also, END's power can't burn time or magic. Dimaria's magic simply cannot affect END because END is too powerful for Dimaria. He wasn't actually burning her magic. Infact, her magic was still affecting Lucy. Natsu's flames of emotions can burn time and magic, and indeed time magic. But it's because those flames are hot enough to do so, not because Natsu hits harder than Dimaria or Zeref. He does, but that's besides the point. Merely hitting harder than Zeref does not allow Natsu to burn time.
well your understanding of how magic works is quite different from mine.
i dont understand what you mean when you say someone is too powerful. END is more powerful than dimeria, what does that mean. does END suddenly have more mp then an average springgan?
for me its simple. hax or any magic works on anyone. so i dont believe in that limit thing. evergreen, who got low diffed by erza, could easily hax erza. and not just in sneak attack either. erza had to keep her good eye shut to fight evergreen. thus, in normal scenario i see evergreen easily turing laxus into a stone as well.
so i look at powers (mp) of caster. mainly how much mp one put in. so natsu can burn zeref dark magic or whatever its called but cant evaporate mercophobia water. same would happen with gildarts, gildarts can crash historia serena magic, but wont be able to crash mercophobia water.
same with erza. alverzec erza will easily cut right through hades 100 formula, alverzec pof erza will not just easily cut august refractors and his melt. but the backlash will be so bad that august might be near wrecked by it.
this way i dont come into weird problem you have introduced.

if i am following your logic correctly. once you have reached certain power, breaking rocks become easy. gmg jura is not at that level. so jellal sema might have taken him out. is that correct?
alverzec erza and maybe laxus has reached that level where breaking rocks is easy enough. thus it doesnt matter dragon irene can causally one shot erza and laxus (the power difference doesnt matter), breaking rock level has been reached.
this brings two problems. one, why did irene opt for a move that would be easier to counter?
i thought, and as it is portrayed, dues sema is tiers above dragon irene claw swipe. but if i follow your logic. irene had more chances of killing erza with another physical attack than deus sema. why didnt irene just roared at erza. why use a move which she knows has lesser durability (an maybe even withen reach of erza taking it out, exact opposite of what was said in the manga)
problem two, why does such a spell exist. it has one major problem. that after a level, it is easy to counter (independent of caster powers) for jellal sure. but for irene. i dont understand. this move is alot weaker than other moves. with no added benefits. i mean, i would understand if you had said its gives up on durability (easy to counter) but causes more devastating damage. which would translate to deus sema hit points being far above any august attack not having same problem.
but we have no information at all.
and the way irene hyped it up, its really hard for me to imagine brandish causally turning it into a pebble or dimeria causally stopping it in track because she can stop time

Yeah lol. That's Jellal using meteor throughout his entire fight with DF Natsu. He didn't just stop using it after he got hit. Natsu slams him through the tower, he responds by flying away with meteor.
Natsu hits him again, and Jellal is still using meteor to fly away and create distance for abyss break.
you said jellal was continuously using it but you gave two panels. this is what i meant, he tried to escape, got punched then staggered away for abysal break.


f Jellal is still using meteor as DF Natsu is hitting him, then what makes you think he's just going to stop using it against Azuma? Jellal doesn't stop using meteor because "it isn't working". He stops using meteor to cast a big attack, and then the fight usually ends. If his opponent is durable enough to keep fighting, then there's no reason he wouldn't keep using meteor to dodge and whatnot.

What he used against Erza is enough to put bind snake on Azuma. All Jellal needs to do is distract Azuma with a thought projection, and then zap him with a bind snake from behind like he did to Erza. Thought projection splits your power, depending on how much of yourself you put into it. Jellal doesn't have to put most of his power into the thought projection. Just enough so that Seig can zip around in meteor and distract Azuma.
well we have what we have. jellal mostly use it once then something else.

if you think jellal can get azuma to kiss him, then he could definitely do it.

i see your strategy, but it wont work. fodder magic arent used to trick strong opponents. atleast not in fairy tail. in fairy tail verse. if jellal uses thought projection, azuma will low diff him. just like how injured erza did.
 
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I agree with everything except maybe bind snake.

Bind snake pretty much ends the fight, as it did against Erza twice. So, I'm not sure if the author has intended for him to use it mid fight, except with enemy is explicitly off guard.
If he could do it, why didn't he use it on Jura? He was so fast that Jura could barely even follow his movements in meteor. So what was stopping him from doing what you said to Jura back in GMG?
Is it CIS from mashima, or is it impossible to do so in a practical fight?

I have the same doubt regarding self destruction spell. It is pretty much a one shot spell against anything not completely out of his tier. But so far he has used it only on a mountain, nirvana (two stationary objects) and himself. Do you think this spell can be used on actual enemies?
Maybe it doesn't work on someone as strong as Jura. Or, like you said, his opponent has to be off guard.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

This doesnt make sense to me. our problem is we have different sources. you are referring to an anime filler while i am only taking manga into account.
i dont think other fillers are cannon. hell i dont even think anime version of erza vs jellal is cannon. while you do
for me after fairy tail came out of fairy sphere, we found out that natsu was basically a max tier. then they had to go on a training session (some got three months training, some got SO). this allowed natsu to be reasonably above max.
in your version. i dont know, did max stalemate natsu after natsu beat midnight. so was midnight with gensis zero about max level( i really dont know). why did midnight even need gensis zero to fight a max level character (shouldnt his refractor be enough).
and cobra was essentially somewhere around gildarts level. because i dont even think bluenote could handle tenrou erza as good as filler cobra handled her.

if your version is true. it means i have incomplete knowledge. so manga readers basically need to watch the entire fairy tail anime to be on the same level as anime only watchers.
i really dont think this is the case.
authors have alot more control over manga then they have over anime. and fillers are meant to keep anime behind the manga. if authors spend time working in the anime or fillers as much as the manga then they would be no point of fillers in the first place.
Zentopia is not anymore important to the story then that drogon zord/robot women arc. or that stupid celestial gone insane arc or the phoenix movie arc (which showed that phoenix would have one shotted aconologia plus all god dragons because it was literally planning to blow the up the entire planet, because that was the amount of power needed to kill it so it re spawn)
if you are saying some fillers are cannon, not all. even that is not reasonable position because normal readers arent crazy fan girls who will follow the mishma twitter feed or even watch that much news on that manga/anime. fairy tail is not such a complicated deep story that i need any sort of background for.

besides, cobra would be the first irrelevant bad guy to improve more than the main group. from clear mishma portrayal of cobra needed racer and sneak attack from hoteye to put down erza, to casually stomping erza.
the same erza, might i add, who took out 99 monsters plus a WS tier monster, who took a blast from minerva which even surprised jura, who moved so fast that markarov couldnt keep up with her.
why would mishma do this? what was the point of making cobra so strong only to stop using his strongest magic after the filler.



well your understanding of how magic works is quite different from mine.
i dont understand what you mean when you say someone is too powerful. END is more powerful than dimeria, what does that mean. does END suddenly have more mp then an average springgan?
for me its simple. hax or any magic works on anyone. so i dont believe in that limit thing. evergreen, who got low diffed by erza, could easily hax erza. and not just in sneak attack either. erza had to keep her good eye shut to fight evergreen. thus, in normal scenario i see evergreen easily turing laxus into a stone as well.
so i look at powers (mp) of caster. mainly how much mp one put in. so natsu can burn zeref dark magic or whatever its called but cant evaporate mercophobia water. same would happen with gildarts, gildarts can crash historia serena magic, but wont be able to crash mercophobia water.
same with erza. alverzec erza will easily cut right through hades 100 formula, alverzec pof erza will not just easily cut august refractors and his melt. but the backlash will be so bad that august might be near wrecked by it.
this way i dont come into weird problem you have introduced.

if i am following your logic correctly. once you have reached certain power, breaking rocks become easy. gmg jura is not at that level. so jellal sema might have taken him out. is that correct?
alverzec erza and maybe laxus has reached that level where breaking rocks is easy enough. thus it doesnt matter dragon irene can causally one shot erza and laxus (the power difference doesnt matter), breaking rock level has been reached.
this brings two problems. one, why did irene opt for a move that would be easier to counter?
i thought, and as it is portrayed, dues sema is tiers above dragon irene claw swipe. but if i follow your logic. irene had more chances of killing erza with another physical attack than deus sema. why didnt irene just roared at erza. why use a move which she knows has lesser durability (an maybe even withen reach of erza taking it out, exact opposite of what was said in the manga)
problem two, why does such a spell exist. it has one major problem. that after a level, it is easy to counter (independent of caster powers) for jellal sure. but for irene. i dont understand. this move is alot weaker than other moves. with no added benefits. i mean, i would understand if you had said its gives up on durability (easy to counter) but causes more devastating damage. which would translate to deus sema hit points being far above any august attack not having same problem.
but we have no information at all.
and the way irene hyped it up, its really hard for me to imagine brandish causally turning it into a pebble or dimeria causally stopping it in track because she can stop time



you said jellal was continuously using it but you gave two panels. this is what i meant, he tried to escape, got punched then staggered away for abysal break.

well we have what we have. jellal mostly use it once then something else.

if you think jellal can get azuma to kiss him, then he could definitely do it.

i see your strategy, but it wont work. fodder magic arent used to trick strong opponents. atleast not in fairy tail. in fairy tail verse. if jellal uses thought projection, azuma will low diff him. just like how injured erza did.
If the manga makes references to the Starry Night arc, then the events in that arc are canon. I don't think the anime version of Jellal vs Erza is canon either. Because Mashima didn't storyboard any of those episodes. There was a lot fillers in the first anime run that the animation studio simply added in as...well, filler. The Starry Night arc was not one of them. The Zentopia Incident mentioned in the manga is the Starry Night arc. It refers to how Oracion Seis used anti link to get rid of a bunch of Celestial Spirit Mages. That's the plot of the Starry Night arc. The Phoenix Priestess movie is referenced in the manga too....In the 100YQ where Natsu has memories of Eclair. The dragonzoid arc is complete filler, and isn't mentioned in the manga. It makes no difference if it's canon or not, but it probably isn't because Mashima probably doesn't remember it.

Natsu was never Max tier. Max just wasn't a complete pushover and could give base Natsu a hard time. But so could many pre-TS villains. The mismatch was obvious when Natsu went all out with LFD, and it's unlikely Max could have beaten base Natsu going all out either. Look at Natsu's performance against Dorma Anim. Max ain't recreating any of that. Cobra and Midnight were beating Natsu and Erza until they received outside help.

END's power was too strong for Dimaria's magic to effect. Brandish too, which is the reason why Brandish couldn't shrink the tumor. It was simply too strong for their magic to work. END's power could not, however, burn Dimaria's time magic. That's why Lucy remained frozen even after Dimaria got beat up.

Again, you have to look at what the magic actually does. To a certain extent, yes. The more magical power is in something, the harder it is for Natsu to burn that magic power. But he can still burn any physical substance so long as the flames are hot enough to burn that physical substance. Natsu can't vaporize Mercphobia's roar, because Mercphobia is likely using magic to prevent or reverse changes to his water (like reversing Gray freezing the pillar, and preventing him from freezing the whirlpool). He's using magic to prevent changes to his water. Also, there's also the fact that Natsu can't vaporize the entire ocean even without Mercphobia's magic power. So vaporizing stuff like the ocean that Mercphobia lifted isn't feasible for him in the first place.

Irene and Jellal aren't trying to make an indestructible rock. That's not what deus sema is. They are using their magic to pull a rock from space, with the goal of making a big explosion when it hits the ground. Deus Sema durability is treated as that of a meteor's by Irene. So I assume it's roughly that of an actual meteor, not some ultra hard substance of which I have no reference point for. People who can realistically smash said meteors, can. People who can't, cant. Irene didn't just use another physical strike to kill Erza was because she never expected Erza to be strong enough to actually be able to cut down a meteor. She also probably wanted to kill everyone else on the battlefield. And maybe Deus Sema could even hits harder than Irene's own claw strike when it makes impact. In any case, she thought Deus Sema was strong enough to get the job done, not because it was the toughest substance she could make. Irene even said that her own scales are tougher.

Refractor isn't something that can be cut. The magic itself has no tangible form and simply warps its target. I suppose you can cut the air blades that it makes, but the air blades are a by-product of refractor....Not the actual magic itself. Midnight can use refractor to do stuff like warp Erza's armors. That's not something she can cut. I suppose if Erza had Ikaruga's sword that can cut anything or used nakagami to dispel the magic itself, something that actually affects magic itself, then Erza could cut refractor....but a physical sword isn't cutting refractor no matter how hard it hits. Even if Erza chops of August's head with her katana, she's still not slicing through refractor.

What more do you want? He used meteor after being punched through a tower by DF Natsu. Then after Natsu was fast enough to still hit him, but Jellal continued to use meteor to create enough space to cast Abyss Break. Jellal doesn't use meteor every waking second of his life, but he does when he needs to use speed. He doesn't just stop using it when he gets hit.

Jellal doesn't need to have to try to get Azuma to kiss him. He can just hit him from the back. The thought projection doesn't have to beat Azuma either. It doesn't even have to be be tangible. It just needs to distract Azuma enough for the real Jellal to do this.
 

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Maybe it doesn't work on someone as strong as Jura. Or, like you said, his opponent has to be off guard.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



If the manga makes references to the Starry Night arc, then the events in that arc are canon. I don't think the anime version of Jellal vs Erza is canon either. Because Mashima didn't storyboard any of those episodes. There was a lot fillers in the first anime run that the animation studio simply added in as...well, filler. The Starry Night arc was not one of them. The Zentopia Incident mentioned in the manga is the Starry Night arc. It refers to how Oracion Seis used anti link to get rid of a bunch of Celestial Spirit Mages. That's the plot of the Starry Night arc. The Phoenix Priestess movie is referenced in the manga too....In the 100YQ where Natsu has memories of Eclair. The dragonzoid arc is complete filler, and isn't mentioned in the manga. It makes no difference if it's canon or not, but it probably isn't because Mashima probably doesn't remember it.

Natsu was never Max tier. Max just wasn't a complete pushover and could give base Natsu a hard time. But so could many pre-TS villains. The mismatch was obvious when Natsu went all out with LFD, and it's unlikely Max could have beaten base Natsu going all out either. Look at Natsu's performance against Dorma Anim. Max ain't recreating any of that. Cobra and Midnight were beating Natsu and Erza until they received outside help.

END's power was too strong for Dimaria's magic to effect. Brandish too, which is the reason why Brandish couldn't shrink the tumor. It was simply too strong for their magic to work. END's power could not, however, burn Dimaria's time magic. That's why Lucy remained frozen even after Dimaria got beat up.

Again, you have to look at what the magic actually does. To a certain extent, yes. The more magical power is in something, the harder it is for Natsu to burn that magic power. But he can still burn any physical substance so long as the flames are hot enough to burn that physical substance. Natsu can't vaporize Mercphobia's roar, because Mercphobia is likely using magic to prevent or reverse changes to his water (like reversing Gray freezing the pillar, and preventing him from freezing the whirlpool). He's using magic to prevent changes to his water. Also, there's also the fact that Natsu can't vaporize the entire ocean even without Mercphobia's magic power. So vaporizing stuff like the ocean that Mercphobia lifted isn't feasible for him in the first place.

Irene and Jellal aren't trying to make an indestructible rock. That's not what deus sema is. They are using their magic to pull a rock from space, with the goal of making a big explosion when it hits the ground. Deus Sema durability is treated as that of a meteor's by Irene. So I assume it's roughly that of an actual meteor, not some ultra hard substance of which I have no reference point for. People who can realistically smash said meteors, can. People who can't, cant. Irene didn't just use another physical strike to kill Erza was because she never expected Erza to be strong enough to actually be able to cut down a meteor. She also probably wanted to kill everyone else on the battlefield. And maybe Deus Sema could even hits harder than Irene's own claw strike when it makes impact. In any case, she thought Deus Sema was strong enough to get the job done, not because it was the toughest substance she could make. Irene even said that her own scales are tougher.

Refractor isn't something that can be cut. The magic itself has no tangible form and simply warps its target. I suppose you can cut the air blades that it makes, but the air blades are a by-product of refractor....Not the actual magic itself. Midnight can use refractor to do stuff like warp Erza's armors. That's not something she can cut. I suppose if Erza had Ikaruga's sword that can cut anything or used nakagami to dispel the magic itself, something that actually affects magic itself, then Erza could cut refractor....but a physical sword isn't cutting refractor no matter how hard it hits. Even if Erza chops of August's head with her katana, she's still not slicing through refractor.

What more do you want? He used meteor after being punched through a tower by DF Natsu. Then after Natsu was fast enough to still hit him, but Jellal continued to use meteor to create enough space to cast Abyss Break. Jellal doesn't use meteor every waking second of his life, but he does when he needs to use speed. He doesn't just stop using it when he gets hit.

Jellal doesn't need to have to try to get Azuma to kiss him. He can just hit him from the back. The thought projection doesn't have to beat Azuma either. It doesn't even have to be be tangible. It just needs to distract Azuma enough for the real Jellal to do this.
It worked on 100YQ Erza, who is more or less 100YQ Jellol level depending on where you put them both. So I don't see why it wouldn't work on Jura, who was Jellol tier in x791. As far as I understand, bind snake would end the fight against anyone not completely above Jellol's tier. It has precedence for working on those on or below his tier.
Yes, need to catch off guard. That's what I said. He didn't use the method you mentioned (using thought projection to distract) to catch Jura off guard and use bind snake. Inspite of him being far superior to Jura in speed and cqc.

Does this mean it's PIS/CIS from Hiro's writing, or is it really impossible for him to catch someone in his tier off guard.

If you think it's the former, I have nothing more to argue.

If you think it's the latter, then how would Jellol be able to accomplish that against Azuma boosted by Tenrou powers, when he couldn't against Jura? Azuma + tenrou powers should be TOH Jellol level, if not stronger.
 

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If the manga makes references to the Starry Night arc, then the events in that arc are canon. I don't think the anime version of Jellal vs Erza is canon either. Because Mashima didn't storyboard any of those episodes. There was a lot fillers in the first anime run that the animation studio simply added in as...well, filler. The Starry Night arc was not one of them. The Zentopia Incident mentioned in the manga is the Starry Night arc. It refers to how Oracion Seis used anti link to get rid of a bunch of Celestial Spirit Mages. That's the plot of the Starry Night arc. The Phoenix Priestess movie is referenced in the manga too....In the 100YQ where Natsu has memories of Eclair. The dragonzoid arc is complete filler, and isn't mentioned in the manga. It makes no difference if it's canon or not, but it probably isn't because Mashima probably doesn't remember it.
so this is the crazy fan girl theory i mentioned before? mishma expects everyone to do research on what is cannon and what is not, in a FAIRY TAIL like manga?
isnt it just easier for Zentopia arc to be just an event to remove some irrelevant mages from the world but that event did not include Fairy tail or OS members.
Do i really have to do a mental gymnastic to try understand gildarts tier cobra and max tier midnight. and then see nothing from them ever again. not even their new magic

Natsu was never Max tier. Max just wasn't a complete pushover and could give base Natsu a hard time. But so could many pre-TS villains. The mismatch was obvious when Natsu went all out with LFD, and it's unlikely Max could have beaten base Natsu going all out either. Look at Natsu's performance against Dorma Anim. Max ain't recreating any of that. Cobra and Midnight were beating Natsu and Erza until they received outside help.
if max can give base natsu a hard time (the only form natsu has in tenrou arc) then he is near natsu level character. midnight needed gensis zero to handle a max level character.
i dont even see nienhart and jacob doing Something like Natsu's performance against Dorma Anim.
manga showed them around the same level meaning max can do atleast 70 to 80% what tenrou natsu could do

END's power was too strong for Dimaria's magic to effect. Brandish too, which is the reason why Brandish couldn't shrink the tumor. It was simply too strong for their magic to work. END's power could not, however, burn Dimaria's time magic. That's why Lucy remained frozen even after Dimaria got beat up.

Again, you have to look at what the magic actually does. To a certain extent, yes. The more magical power is in something, the harder it is for Natsu to burn that magic power. But he can still burn any physical substance so long as the flames are hot enough to burn that physical substance. Natsu can't vaporize Mercphobia's roar, because Mercphobia is likely using magic to prevent or reverse changes to his water (like reversing Gray freezing the pillar, and preventing him from freezing the whirlpool). He's using magic to prevent changes to his water. Also, there's also the fact that Natsu can't vaporize the entire ocean even without Mercphobia's magic power. So vaporizing stuff like the ocean that Mercphobia lifted isn't feasible for him in the first place.


mercophobia raised the ocean. natsu could make zero steam. he could have evaporated some portion of it
dues sema will be causually stopped by dimeria and brandish. a hyped move of irene

Irene and Jellal aren't trying to make an indestructible rock. That's not what deus sema is. They are using their magic to pull a rock from space, with the goal of making a big explosion when it hits the ground. Deus Sema durability is treated as that of a meteor's by Irene. So I assume it's roughly that of an actual meteor, not some ultra hard substance of which I have no reference point for. People who can realistically smash said meteors, can. People who can't, cant. Irene didn't just use another physical strike to kill Erza was because she never expected Erza to be strong enough to actually be able to cut down a meteor. She also probably wanted to kill everyone else on the battlefield. And maybe Deus Sema could even hits harder than Irene's own claw strike when it makes impact. In any case, she thought Deus Sema was strong enough to get the job done, not because it was the toughest substance she could make. Irene even said that her own scales are tougher.
they have to, otherwise a move like that is nothing for irene tier character and yet irene hyped it. no dragon scale thing was separete. dragon seems to be literally immune to non ds magic. no matter how strong. case in point we dont knw whether non ds august can beat zirconis or not
why would irene NOW want kill everyone on the battle field


Refractor isn't something that can be cut. The magic itself has no tangible form and simply warps its target. I suppose you can cut the air blades that it makes, but the air blades are a by-product of refractor....Not the actual magic itself. Midnight can use refractor to do stuff like warp Erza's armors. That's not something she can cut. I suppose if Erza had Ikaruga's sword that can cut anything or used nakagami to dispel the magic itself, something that actually affects magic itself, then Erza could cut refractor....but a physical sword isn't cutting refractor no matter how hard it hits. Even if Erza chops of August's head with her katana, she's still not slicing through refractor.
didnt natsu burn zeref black spell.


Jellal doesn't need to have to try to get Azuma to kiss him. He can just hit him from the back. The thought projection doesn't have to beat Azuma either. It doesn't even have to be be tangible. It just needs to distract Azuma enough for the real Jellal to do this.
as i said it wont work. fairy tail doesnt work like that. jellal has never used it like that.
 
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so this is the crazy fan girl theory i mentioned before? mishma expects everyone to do research on what is cannon and what is not, in a FAIRY TAIL like manga?
isnt it just easier for Zentopia arc to be just an event to remove some irrelevant mages from the world but that event did not include Fairy tail or OS members.
Do i really have to do a mental gymnastic to try understand gildarts tier cobra and max tier midnight. and then see nothing from them ever again. not even their new magic

if max can give base natsu a hard time (the only form natsu has in tenrou arc) then he is near natsu level character. midnight needed gensis zero to handle a max level character.
i dont even see nienhart and jacob doing Something like Natsu's performance against Dorma Anim.
manga showed them around the same level meaning max can do atleast 70 to 80% what tenrou natsu could do


mercophobia raised the ocean. natsu could make zero steam. he could have evaporated some portion of it
dues sema will be causually stopped by dimeria and brandish. a hyped move of irene

they have to, otherwise a move like that is nothing for irene tier character and yet irene hyped it. no dragon scale thing was separete. dragon seems to be literally immune to non ds magic. no matter how strong. case in point we dont knw whether non ds august can beat zirconis or not
why would irene NOW want kill everyone on the battle field

didnt natsu burn zeref black spell.

as i said it wont work. fairy tail doesnt work like that. jellal has never used it like that.
You don't have to be a crazy fangirl to figure out what is canon or not. The Zentopia incident is the Starry Night arc. It's mentioned in the manga, and therefore it's definitely canon. Btw, Zentopia is a church. They were tricked by Oracion Seis to help out in wiping out the Celestial Spirit Mages so they could use real nightmare. Fairy Tail stopped them. There's no reason for Zentopia to go around offing Celestial Spirit Mages by themselves, and infact....they ended up being friends with FT by the end of it. The other fillers may or may not be canon, but since it isn't mentioned in the manga and Mashima probably doesn't even remember them....It probably isn't. But Mashima basically wrote the Starry Night arc, and more importantly....It's referenced in the manga.

Cobra and Max aren't Gildarts tier. Erza is not Gildarts tier.

Nearly every pre-timeskip villain can give Natsu the same difficulty that Max did. Some of them even did better. Max didn't do anything to Natsu that someone like Erigor couldn't have.

Jacob is trash in stats, sure, but Historia of God Serena can deal with Dorma Anim.

I suppose Natsu could vaporize some of the ocean. Just not enough to matter.

The point of deus sema is to hit you with a rock from space. She is using magic to throw the rock. Nowhere in any of that is it said that Irene is using her magic to make the rock super hard. Irene herself treats the toughness of the rock as if it's an actual meteor. She says her own scales are harder to cut than it.

Dragons aren't immune to magic.

Yeah, Natsu can burn Zeref's black magic. Because Zeref's black magic is tangible. Midnight's refractor isn't. It just warps stuff.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

It worked on 100YQ Erza, who is more or less 100YQ Jellol level depending on where you put them both. So I don't see why it wouldn't work on Jura, who was Jellol tier in x791. As far as I understand, bind snake would end the fight against anyone not completely above Jellol's tier. It has precedence for working on those on or below his tier.
Yes, need to catch off guard. That's what I said. He didn't use the method you mentioned (using thought projection to distract) to catch Jura off guard and use bind snake. Inspite of him being far superior to Jura in speed and cqc.

Does this mean it's PIS/CIS from Hiro's writing, or is it really impossible for him to catch someone in his tier off guard.

If you think it's the former, I have nothing more to argue.

If you think it's the latter, then how would Jellol be able to accomplish that against Azuma boosted by Tenrou powers, when he couldn't against Jura? Azuma + tenrou powers should be TOH Jellol level, if not stronger.
Yeah, it's CIS.

Because it's not impossible for Jellal to catch people of his tier off guard. He's done it to Erza and Jura.
 
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